Gold and Ovies Interview Julius Hodge and defend NC State; Sendek should want his job back at NC State

Adam Gold and Joe Ovies had a great interview with Julius Hodge yesterday afternoon.

Link to interview with Julius Hodge.

Also, please read this great column from Adam Gold on NC State’s basketball team.

I have to give Gold and Ovies credit for defending NC State. A moron called in yesterday and made the same, tired, baseless argument that you can only be so good with Duke and UNC so close and that we should want to hire Herb Sendek back. Gold and Ovies called him out immediately and essentially cut him off. If that statement had any truth to it, then Sendek would have immediately started winning at a higher rate at ASU because it is a much, much further distance from Chapel Hill and Durham.

As poorly as Sidney Lowe has done at NC State in his 4.5 seasons, this is how Lowe’s and Sendek’s records compare:

Sendek – 85-62
Lowe – 82-67
Sendek’s last 5 seasons at NC State – 105-58

In Sendek’s 5th season, the Sun Devils are 9-7 and 1-3 in the Pac 10. Sidney has NC State at 11-5 and 1-1 in the ACC. It is likely that Lowe could actually have a higher overall winning percentage by the end of the season, his best single season overall and the ACC in his 5th season which would mean the program is on an upward trend while ASU is spiraling backwards since Sendek’s 3nd season, and still Sidney could be fired as the head coach at NC State. While Sendek would likely be safe for at least another year because because his real market value in the world of college basketball was judged to fit a program with lower expectations than NC State.

If being close to UNC and Duke is such an enormous obstacle for an NC State head coach, then:

a. why are Sendek’s results worse than those he achieved at NC State in his last 5 seasons now that he has escaped the mean, evil NC State fans and moved to Arizona?

and:

b. why is Sendek winning at a similar rate to Sidney Lowe who some think is one of the worst coaches in the history of NC State, maybe one of the worst coaches in the history of the ACC, and who coaches so close to Duke and UNC which to some is the most difficult obstacle in all of sports? They both had massive rebuilding jobs.

The last 4.5 years show exactly how the NC State head coaching position is actually an outstanding opportunity. The records of Sendek and Lowe show that a large part of Sendek’s success was actually the resources, fan support, financial support, facilities, location, school, conference affiliation, etc…that were at Sendek’s disposal during his 10 years in Raleigh. Sendek is the same coach today that he was 5 years ago at NC State. In fact, he is likely a better coach today because he has more experience and his reputation has grown. So what changed when he went to Arizona St. especially when you consider he is no longer facing Duke and UNC and coaching in the same area code as Coach K and Roy?

He is at Arizona St. He is working from a different platform with fewer resources. That is all that has changed.

I think Sendek is a significantly better college basketball coach than Sidney Lowe. It isn’t even close. However, NC State’s resources to win have boosted Lowe’s results to the same level as a much better basketball coach at a lessor program like Sendek and ASU respectively. If we get any ASU readers, then please don’t take this as a criticism of ASU. The comments on their message boards make similar points about the lack of upside in their basketball program. While Sendek is a solid basketball coach, he didn’t raise the ceiling of NC State basketball and eventually became unpopular because he never came close to the ceilings established by 3 different coaches in 4 different decades. Sendek has a chance to hit the ceilings of the ASU program, however it is debatable at this point whether he is the type of coach who can actually take ASU to a higher level. Isn’t that the goal afterall?

All of this proves that location relative to other top basketball programs has very little to do with your actual success as a basketball coach. If it is a factor at all(I would argue that it isn’t), then it is at best very minor. NC State’s location in one of the fastest growing metro areas in the country and one of the highest rated places to live in the entire country is actually a huge asset to an NC State basketball coach. Essentially, NC State’s location was one of the reasons Sendek made the now famous 5 straight NCAA tournaments at NC State. He had Raleigh to sell when convincing the players that made up those teams to come to NC State. Not to mention that Raleigh is drivable from almost any area on the east coast that an NC State coach would recruit. Sendek now has those factors working against him at ASU. Not that ASU isn’t in a great area, but the distances to potential recruiting territories are great.

Sendek was largely hired by ASU based on his accomplishment of making 5 straight NCAA tournaments at NC State. It makes sense from ASU’s perspective. Hire a guy who has accomplished something recently that is outstanding relative to your own recent results and hope that translates into the new coach accomplishing similar results with your program permanently raising your ceiling. The miscalculation on ASU’s part was that while 5 straight NCAAs sounds good for a program like ASU, it was in fact not that significant of an accomplishment relative to the history of the program that Sendek coached.

Hiring Sendek would have been similar to NC State hiring Steve Lavin formerly of UCLA and now at St. Johns. Lavin had a very good record relative to former NC State coaches, but it actually represented underachieving for a coach at UCLA which is one of the top jobs in all of college basketball. So why would NC State want to hire a coach who underachieved in his former job? What are the chances that a previous underachieving coach is going to overachieve and permanently raise the ceiling of your program? The only reason to have hired Lavin is because he would have likely done better than Sidney Lowe. The same questions can now be asked about the strategy of Arizona St. hiring Herb Sendek.

None of this commentary is intended as a knock on Sendek. However, I wonder if eventually someone in the media will finally make the point that just maybe Sendek should want his job back at NC State. Or at least at a program with the resources to win that exist at NC State. He is certainly available and there are certainly better jobs with bigger opportunities in better locations. Yet, nobody has even attempted to pluck Sendek from the desert.

10-11 Basketball General

64 Responses to Gold and Ovies Interview Julius Hodge and defend NC State; Sendek should want his job back at NC State

  1. Rochester 01/13/2011 at 2:11 PM #

    Why the constant justification to have fired him?

    Repeat after me: Herb Sendek was not fired. Herb Sendek was not fired …

    The guy left on his own. How do we not all know that?

  2. Daily Update 01/13/2011 at 2:34 PM #

    Just added these paragraphs:

    Sendek was largely hired by ASU based on his accomplishment of making 5 straight NCAA tournaments at NC State. It makes sense from ASU’s perspective. Hire a guy who has accomplished something recently that is outstanding relative to your own recent results and hope that translates into the new coach accomplishing similar results with your program permanently raising your ceiling. The miscalculation on ASU’s part was that while 5 straight NCAAs sounds good for a program like ASU, it was in fact not that significant of an accomplishment relative to the history of the program that Sendek coached.

    Hiring Sendek would have been similar to NC State hiring Steve Lavin formerly of UCLA and now at St. Johns. Lavin had a very good record relative to former NC State coaches, but it actually represented underachieving for a coach at UCLA which is one of the top jobs in all of college basketball. So why would NC State want to hire a coach who underachieved in his former job? What are the chances that a previous underachieving coach is going to overachieve and permanently raise the ceiling of your program? The only reason to have hired Lavin is because he would have likely done better than Sidney Lowe. The same questions can now be asked about the strategy of Arizona St. hiring Herb Sendek.

  3. Daily Update 01/13/2011 at 2:39 PM #

    Note that those two paragraphs explain my thinking as far as how we should go about replacing Lowe if it comes to that. That is why mid-major/off the radar guys are so appealing to me. Look for someone that has accomplished something at a program that has never been done before. Then dig into those accomplishments and be certain that the achievements weren’t simply because of 1 player or 1 recruiting class. Hopefully find a guy that has major accomplishments relative to where he has coached that has occurred through multiple recruiting classes continued those results after losing great players that helped him turn around the program.

    Not sure if that guy out there exists. But I would be much more interested in that type of coach than giving someone a lateral move or a step down from another major program who is beginning to wear out his welcome.

    If someone brings up TOB and BC, then having studied BC’s history TOB’s record at BC stood up very favorably to any coach who has ever spent more than a few years there.

  4. bradleyb123 01/13/2011 at 2:59 PM #

    Bradleyb123: Additionally, Herb’s results at ASU prove that opinion. Yet, nobody is talking about Herb’s actual results at ASU…

    That’s very true. Also, Herb’s ASU team has played in a PAC-10 championship game, and blew a 15+ point second half lead. How many times have we seen THAT movie before? And it always has the same ending!

    And last year, ASU had a #1 seed in the NIT, and lost the first game — at home, no less.

    I like Herb, and I wish him well. I just wish people would stop bringing him up and throwing him in our face. We should have let him go after his fifth season, when we only won 13 total games. People act like we blew it by letting him leave, and we’re getting what we deserve now. Herb was awful, even if he found ways to barely squeak us into the dance.

  5. wufpup76 01/13/2011 at 3:06 PM #

    This article helps drive the point home that we have that freaking moron Fowler to thank for going to any media outlet that would listen and spouting off about how:

    1. “State can’t compete; Duke and Unx are down the road!”

    2. “Herb’s job is IMPOSSIBLE! Look at what he’s accomplished with Duke and Unx down the road AND with impossible fans!

    3. “My (Fowler’s) job is IMPOSSIBLE! I have to deal with idiot fans who don’t realize State has a low ceiling! I’m doing the best I can against impossible odds! Duke and Unx are down the road!”

    ^That is where this media nonsense started. Fowler. Our own AD creating a sh*tstorm about the fanbase so HIS job would be easier and he would be defended by the media. Then the Seth Davis’es of the world rode in to Herb’s defense – even though he didn’t need any defense. Ever notice how there are exactly zero quotes from Herb in articles bashing NC State for “running the great Herb off”? Media people did what media people do: find a button and push it.

    I didn’t hear much of Adam and Joe’s show yesterday, but I did hear one caller (maybe not the same one referred to in the article) call in and ask “WHO would want the State job?!? Duke and Unx are down the road!”

    About the same time I’m thinking to myself “Doesn’t ANYONE have any b*lls left?” Gold thankfully said something along the lines of: “Grow a pair and accept the challenge.” Thank God. Finally. Somebody – in the media no less – gets that.

    This is a great job with a wonderful OPPORTUNITY to coach in the ACC against traditionaly powers and establish your own legacy. And if you are that freaking sack-less then I hope we aren’t contacting you and you are not contacting us. Unbelievable. Nobody has any fight in them anymore. Not when it comes to State, anyway.

  6. bradleyb123 01/13/2011 at 3:08 PM #

    Repeat after me: Herb Sendek was not fired. Herb Sendek was not fired… The guy left on his own. How do we not all know that?

    I believe Lock was basically insinuating that, yes, he left on his own, but mainly because of the way our horrible, horrible fanbase treated him.

    I’m sure him leaving had absolutely nothing to do with that $600K/year pay raise he got by leaving. 😉

    The fact is, if he hadn’t left, he’d still be here today. We may have a couple more NCAA appearances, but I’m sure there would still be no championships. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU ASU!!!

  7. Daily Update 01/13/2011 at 3:12 PM #

    wufpup76: Good post.

    I was talking about the Duke/UNC issue in regards to Fowler Saturday night over beers and NFL football.

    Fowler supported that line of thinking because it justified the results of his athletic department. Of course he wanted people to believe that we shouldn’t expect to compete with Duke and UNC or even try to do so.

    I always referred to that as “Lee Fowler thinking”. Basically, thinking/believing that stuff justified his own existence. It was in his best interests for that to be the company line. Saying otherwise would have led to his departure more quickly. It was self-serving.

    Thankfully Yow sees things differently.

  8. rtpack24 01/13/2011 at 3:34 PM #

    Daily Update good work. The thing about Herb is when his team wins it is still hard to watch. ASU scored 38 pts in a game this year. Herb never made a NCAA tournament until he hired Larry Hunter who was a very experienced head coach. Herb turned over many duties to Hunter such as installing the Princeton offense which Hunter felt was a good match for our players at the time. The reason Herb had a vacancy on staff was because Sean Miller took another asst job because he tought Herb was going to be fired. Who knows how the rest of this year will play out but we do have 4.5 yrs to base an opinion of what will happen.

  9. VaWolf82 01/13/2011 at 3:43 PM #

    IMO, it would be unprofessional for DY to be actively discussing a job opportunity with anyone outside of the university until there is an opening. However, planning and preliminary discussions of those plans with her boss would fall under those things expected of an active and efficient mid-manager.

  10. Wulfpack 01/13/2011 at 3:59 PM #

    I am much more interested in our future than our past. We must move forward as a program and as a fanbase.

  11. theghost 01/13/2011 at 4:11 PM #

    it’s been rightly pointed out that Sendek is completely irrelevant to any decision made about Lowe going forward.

    However, on that debate alone, if the choices were limited to Sid or Herb, nobody else, pick one and stick with it, I’d take Lowe a thousand times over. I’ll never buy the assertion that Sendek is a better coach. In fact, if the choices were Herb or never watch basketball again, I’d also pick against Herb. And I’m convinced that the program is in better shape now than at the end of Herb’s tenure, not to mention the end of his first 5.

    If I liked soccer’s pace and wanted to watch a soccer game, I’d… watch a soccer game. Watching Herb’s teams fail to execute anything resembling a game plan or an offense is the most painful experience I’ve had watching basketball. And I’ve been to an SEC game.

    Time to move on from Lowe? Most likely, unless he puts together a very impressive end of season run. But it’s also vitally important to keep in mind that, whatever Sid’s shortcomings, he did everything he was able to do to help NCSU, and was never disloyal or negative about his – our – university. Whenever he leaves, he should be treated with gratitude, respect, and dignity, as one of the greats who will always have an important place around State. Most folks on here, to their credit, have been consistently respectful and careful to separate criticism of the performance from criticism of the person – kudos.

  12. 61Packer 01/13/2011 at 4:18 PM #

    I remember all the posters on here several months ago who were CERTAIN that UNC football was doomed. So far, nothing has changed, however, and I’m really beginning to wonder if anything at all will happen to UNC football except for a slap on the helmet.

    Now, there are plenty of posters who are just as certain that DY is going to get rid of SL at the end of this season. What is this being based on? Many of the same NCSU “Big Wolves” who were content to let HWSNBN hang around for a decade before walking away are still around, and except for Wolfpack fans (who don’t count for much these days evidently), do Pack officials really have the ‘nads to fire SL? Heck, we might beat Duke next week, and an 8-8 finish or better in the ACC certainly would make firing the coach more difficult.

    I don’t understand why we keep mediocre and bad basketball coaches over 3 years in the first place. Regardless of talent levels, you can watch someone coach for a few games and it’s pretty obvious how good he is. It was obvious by the third season under the previous coach that he was going to be mediocre at best. It took less time than that to convince me that the current coach is a bad coach, period.

    Why we prolong fan suffering for so long at this school baffles me. As bad as I want to see this entire coaching staff gone immediately, something tells me that when next season rolls around, we’ll have the same folks orchestrating the same ugly game that Wolfpack basketball has become, and the push to sell LTR seats will be even more urgent.

  13. PackInsider 01/13/2011 at 4:26 PM #

    Good article.

    I would argue that it won’t really matter what Herb does this year at ASU. If they do end up on the bottom of the PAC-10 (which is entirely conceivable this season), it will likely be ignored by the folks who want to continue to slam us for letting Herb walk or they’ll just make up some ridiculous excuse for him (nevermind the success ASU has been able to have in baseball, football and other sports there).

    As it relates to the mid-major coaches out there…I keep coming back to Gregg Marshall. He consistently won at Winthrop, making the NCAAT 7 out of his 9 seasons. He’s been pretty solid at Wichita St. as well, winning 25 games last year and off to a solid start this year. I’m keeping my eye on him this season to see how WSU is doing. He’s from SC, so it would be a pretty good fit there. A lot of folks have said “No way” with him, but I’m interested in results and he’s seemed to produce everywhere he’s been thus far.

  14. ShavlikLeague 01/13/2011 at 4:48 PM #

    “Look for someone that has accomplished something at a program that has never been done before. Then dig into those accomplishments and be certain that the achievements weren’t simply because of 1 player or 1 recruiting class. Hopefully find a guy that has major accomplishments relative to where he has coached that has occurred through multiple recruiting classes continued those results after losing great players that helped him turn around the program.” –Daily Update

    You’ve basically described what the criteria should be for analyzing any potential coaching hire, whether an unknown or well known coach. The key is having an AD who has a substantial sports resume…someone who has been there and understands every single facet of what it takes to win a single game, let alone the myriad of factors that need to be consider for an entire program.

    “I don’t understand why we keep mediocre and bad basketball coaches over 3 years in the first place. Regardless of talent levels, you can watch someone coach for a few games and it’s pretty obvious how good he is. It was obvious by the third season under the previous coach that he was going to be mediocre at best. It took less time than that to convince me that the current coach is a bad coach, period.

    Why we prolong fan suffering for so long at this school baffles me. As bad as I want to see this entire coaching staff gone immediately, something tells me that when next season rolls around, we’ll have the same folks orchestrating the same ugly game that Wolfpack basketball has become, and the push to sell LTR seats will be even more urgent.” –61Packer

    Again, it all boils down to the AD and size of his or her ‘nads’…and how confident they are in understanding sports and people and how the two interrelate, while at the same time, be willing to make decisions that might not please everyone around him/her. Prime example, Oliver Luck. He was a competitor on the field and has a pretty good understanding of the game of football. You don’t have to have played other sports to get a feel or vibe for how a different sport’s team is performing. Watch enough games, watch interactions between the coach, the players, interactions with refs, body language, etc…you get a pretty good feel for what’s going on.

    Which probably has a hand in why Luck is doing what he’s doing with the coaching transition with West Virginia’s football program. His experience (plus he’s pretty smart) gives him the cojones to make the kind of move he’s making.

    We haven’t had someone like that running our athletic program for a long, long time…someone who has “been there” and was pretty good while doing it, whether it be from a prior playing or coaching background. And until we do, I’m afraid that the direction of our basketball program, as well as some other programs, is going to be a result of chance at best.

  15. rpmilly 01/13/2011 at 5:06 PM #

    I agree with Hodge, it starts with defense!! The great teams have very good offensive players who play great defense (Duke). Until the State players start playing Great defense, they will continue to struggle getting quality wins.

  16. Daily Update 01/13/2011 at 5:30 PM #

    Packinsider: I don’t disagree at all with your post about the excuses people will make for Herb. Right now, they are just ignoring his results which is probably easier for them.

    Interesting you bring up Marshall.

    Also good comments from Shavlik. Marshall might actually fit the description I made of the right hire for us fairly well. Though I haven’t really dug into his success. I know there are some questions about his personality though.

  17. Whiteshoes67 01/13/2011 at 6:24 PM #

    DU, I’ve heard rumors re the concern over Marshall’s personality as well. Yes, he’s prickly. Not a problem with me. I’ll add that most of the folks who i’ve heard this from are SC natives and big donors at CU and SC. I suspect that some of the anti-Marshall sentiment isn’t really legitimate. It stems from him snubbing his nose at SC and CU. I may be wrong here, but this is a version I’ve heard. I’d be happy to have him leading the Pack.

  18. PoppaJohn 01/13/2011 at 7:03 PM #

    Good stuff!
    I believe that DY is shopping now, she knows how this is going to turn out. How could she not? She can see this isn’t happening this year.

    This will be her signature hire and she knows it. I’ll bet anything she’s making calls and creating a list of names to monitor this season. This is too big a decision to wait until March to start working on. The smart AD is going to do it fast and early to maintain recruiting momentum and soothe the fan base.

  19. Lunatic Fringe 01/13/2011 at 7:07 PM #

    Wulfpack,

    I disagree…you have to look at the past to make better decisions in the future. What I took from Daily Update’s post is that NC State has a lot to offer and perhaps a “big name” is not what we need…

    I believe what we need is a solid game day coach that puts us in a position to win. We don’t need a flashy guy that can out recruit the world or even a big name (ala Barnes). The program, conference, & facilities all will feed our program once we start winning.

    Lowe has been able to maintain the same level of recruiting as Sendek, who is regarded by some to be an amazing recruiter, without making the dance once in his tenure.

  20. patientwuf 01/13/2011 at 7:50 PM #

    Daily- great job well done.

    I believe you are trying to tell the audience that this is a RESULTS ORIENTED JOB PROFESSION. If ASU decides to ignore the obvious, just as NC STATE has done for 25 plus years, then shame on them.

    I love reading all these entries because they burn with passion because we are DIE HARD, LONG SUFFERING WOLFPACKERS. We deserve and are craving a winning basketball program. I have been patient long enough it’s time for a change.

    NO MORE EXCUSES

    Sid has the peices in place to make a serious run in the ACC this year. This is his 5th year- time for some serious results. I’m not talking middle of the pack(4-6)-I’m talking top 3- anything less will land us in the NIT again. We all Love Sid and hate to see this happening to a fellow Wolfpacker but at the end of the day its all about the W’s.

    Kudos Shavlik.

  21. hball57 01/13/2011 at 7:56 PM #

    I listened to the whole Hodge interview twice. I ask that we not take bits and pieces and use it … let’s take the whole thing.

    We talk like we played no defense; that is not true. We didn’t play defense in the first 6 minutes and the last 3:30. So we can play defense and we have played defense; we simply needed to play defense to the end.

    Julius talks in glowing terms about Sid’s coaching. He also says Sid will “do what he needs to”. He says the players have to be held accountable.

    So let me say this about Javi. I think Sid starts Javi and plays him 4 minutes to see what Javi will bring on a given night. Before this year I saw Javi as a fighter. I see no fight in Javi right now. He is not fighting for minutes. And to start the season Javi and Ryan are his only options, as Sid did not want Lo Brown, as a freshman, to try and learn two positions. I understand that. Maybe now either the old Javi shows up or Lo Brown needs to play some point.

    I believe all the other players are putting the effort into it and many are learning. Maybe CJW will get into people’s face as he seems to have the personality that Hodge refers to. Thank goodness this season is not lost … yet.

  22. packalum44 01/13/2011 at 8:07 PM #

    I assume the first two on the list are the most important factors…

    NC State:
    Better arena
    Better fans/attendance
    East coast recruits
    Good talent on campus

    ASU:
    Awesome talent on campus
    Beautiful weather
    California recruits

    (For those in Faison, talent = girls)
    You’re welcome Chain.

  23. Rufftown Wolf 01/13/2011 at 9:16 PM #

    There is a lot basket ball yet to be played, but the thing about the subbing of Harrow late in the game is that hindsight is 20/20, if Sid knew what was going to happen next then yeah he doesn’t make that call. Who would think a senior guard would make that play??? Not me. You also have to remember how it went: Harrow didn’t get out on a 3, Javi didn’t see the shot clock, CJ Lesile didn’t get out on a 3, Smith turns it over, then Javi didn’t get out on a 3. So it was a Team effort not just one player. Jules was right when he said the players have to be accountable. I think this team can be a really good Defensive team. BUT they have to start wanting to be that Defensive TEAM that nobody wants to play. GO PACK!

  24. Gene 01/13/2011 at 10:48 PM #

    “We don’t need a flashy guy that can out recruit the world ”

    I disagree. We need a coach, who can out recruit the world. Sendek’s short coming, in competing with Duke and UNC-Ch, is we ended up taking our 4 star, #88 overall PF, to go toe-to-toe with their 5 star #8 overall PF, whose probably going to be a lottery pick.

    At some point we need to keep reloading with Harrows, Browns and Leslies, just like they do.

    We may not have recruiting classes just as loaded as theirs, but we do need a few 5 star recruits of our own, to match up with their 5 star recruits.

  25. Lunatic Fringe 01/13/2011 at 11:25 PM #

    Gene,

    Sendek’s shortcoming was believing he could not compete with Duke/UNC unless he took the air out of the ball and used a gimmic offense. He recruited guys into that said offense and was routinely run off the floor.

    It is NOT about the players.

    Lowe has had 5 5-star & 5 4-star players on his team in his tenure at NC State. He has 3 5-star & 3 4-star players on his team RIGHT NOW. I am hopeful he can get them to be a cohesive team, but I am becoming less optimistic.

    It is one thing to have the horses, but it is completely different thing to have them acting as one unit.

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