Wide Right in Tallahassee

Ok, I’m calmer now (somewhat, anyway).

And, thanks to The U and The Flagship (I swear, today was the first time I’ve ever in my life cheered for an opponent of Carolina’s to lose, and although I didn’t cheer for Carolina to win, it still felt dirty), Saturday in the Atlantic ends where it began: with State and Maryland each in control of its own destiny and Florida State needing some help.

State can still make it to Charlotte. That’s great, I’ll be there wearing bells and whistles cheering them on. But regardless of how the rest of November plays out, TOB — or as BJD referred to him, TGW (aka, The Gutless Wonder) — made the absolute wrong call with the game (and probably the Atlantic Division) on the line today. For those that missed it, trailing 14-13 with under four minutes to play, State faced a 4th-and-one at the Clemson 43, and instead of making what most of us agree wasn’t just the right call for that situation, but the ONLY call (including, it appeared, Wilson and most of his teammates), TOB opted to punt…for four net yards.

Sure, State was plenty awful today before that call — poor execution and far too many missed opportunities to put Clemson away — and there was plenty of blame to share for that loss, not to mention we got the ball back with another chance to win it and failed to convert. So, TOB’s inexcusable, braindead decision wasn’t the sole reason we lost. But his decision put us in a position where winning the game would be highly unlikely.

With the division on the line and the ACC’s best quarterback needing a single yard, TOB chose to punt rather than play for the win. Make no mistake, punting was the low-percentage gamble there, not going for it. Best case scenario: we back Clemson up inside their own 10, force a three-and-out while burning all three of our timeouts, and then get the ball back around midfield with no timeouts and an unreliable kicking game. It’s not even a situation where you can claim confidence in your defense forcing a punt and trading up for better field position. Nope, the most likely best case scenario is that we trade two valuable minutes and three timeouts for a net loss of 10-15 yards in field position. Right?

I feel safe saying that most of us would’ve been disappointed had we not made it on that fourth down, but at least we could stomach going down fighting. After all, that’s our style. We didn’t like it when Amato played not to lose and we most certainly aren’t happy when TOB does it. What’s the worst that happens, we turn it over on downs and Clemson runs out the clock and we lose the game? So what? We’ve done plenty of that in the past few years. At least give us a chance to win it, coach.

Maybe TOB regrets that decision. And while I don’t think it makes him a bad coach (because his overall record shows otherwise), I do think it’s wholly indicative that State football has peaked under his leadership. We may still play in Charlotte on December 4th, and maybe we’ll win the ACC title and play in the Orange Bowl, or lose and go to the Peach, but that doesn’t mean TOB is the right coach to continue leading us forward, not if we have aspirations of national prominence that we were promised a decade ago when we started writing checks to pay for the renovated Carter-Finley. I trust Debbie Yow to make the right decision about this after the season.

Why? Because TOB will always punt in that same situation rather than going for the win. It’s just his style. And we’ll never be happy about it.

Accepting that call now is even tougher, knowing we blew a golden opportunity to seperate ourselves from Maryland and effectively eliminate Florida state, who both lost today. But the real bitch of it is that somehow we’re still in this fight and so now we’ll all resume that same dreadful, weary hope that hangs like a curse in our lives.

It’s tough being a State fan.

Many great comments from the SFN faithful on BJD’s earlier post here and also our Forums.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

'10 Football Tom O'Brien

76 Responses to Wide Right in Tallahassee

  1. ChiefJoJo 11/07/2010 at 1:42 PM #

    ^ But after the punt (lousy as it was), we DID hold them to a three and out, did we not? And you are completely ignoring all the other mistakes we made all day that put us in the position we were in the last 3 minutes.

  2. Rick 11/07/2010 at 1:48 PM #

    “But after the punt (lousy as it was), we DID hold them to a three and out, did we not?”

    Results are not the determining factor on whether a decision is bad or not.

    In poker terms, if you go all in with 7-2 and beat A-A, it does not mean you made a good play.

    Percentage-wise, going for it was the right call. In order for the punt to work, all of the following need to happen
    1) Good punt that is downed deep
    2) 3 and out by the defense
    3) Our offense to then move the ball
    4) a second string kicker to hit a FG

    That is a lot of things that have to go right for TGW’s decision to work. In your scenario, number two went well but 1 and 3 did not so we never got to 4

  3. JeremyH 11/07/2010 at 1:56 PM #

    BJD95 said: “Plus, even if you miss on 4th and 1, you still have the same shot at the three and out, and all you’ve lost is, on average, 20 yards of field position. ”

    I think he was counting on more conservative play-calling from Clemson if they were backed up. Whatever the reason, TOB really did not want to give Clemson’s offense, which had been rolling at the time, the ball at midfield. But with 3 minutes left, I agree, the punt is the riskier play. Clearly the call is baffling to the majority of us, just some of us are more willing to “let it go” and see how the rest plays out. Hey we have 2 basketball games this week ; )

  4. wolfman1959 11/07/2010 at 3:08 PM #

    I have waited until today to calm down before commenting on that GUTLESS 4th and 1 call in the 4th quarter yesterday…….and guess what? Still not over it …..Absloutely ridiculous,gutless call…sends the completely wrong message to a team that had already played horribly and failed to capitalize on 6 turnovers…thay needed to go for it and make it for moral and the victory at Death Valley…….I am still sick to my stomach about that call and if I am ever forced to pull for the Tarholes to determine our destiny….then I guess I have just had enough of this crap !!!!!!!

  5. wolfman1959 11/07/2010 at 3:11 PM #

    Did I fail to mention that after failing to go for it on 4th and 1,it was followed by a perfectly executed 4 yard punt !! 4 YARD PUNT!!!
    4 YARD PUNT !!!! It even sounds ridiculous typing it much less observing it !!!!!! Still sick of this crap…….

  6. tuckerdorm1983 11/07/2010 at 4:08 PM #

    after all is said we still have a shot at the title game. A couple of wins our way and a loss or two by FSU and MD and wham bam thank you mam we go to the title game. We win out and we play the title game PERIOD!! UN-f@#4ing believable.

  7. RegularExpression 11/07/2010 at 4:48 PM #

    Here’s a not so hypothetical situation. A coach has a decision to make during a game. Choice A gives him a 40% chance of winning the game. Choice B gives him a 15% chance of winning the game. He takes option B. Does that make him gutless or stupid?

    I’d argue that the decision was stupid rather than gutless, especially given his defense of it. But the fact that he was defending it tells me he isn’t going to learn from it.

  8. ADVENTUROO 11/07/2010 at 5:06 PM #

    I did not watch the entire game, but I did a lot of reading about it. It would appear that we, the mighty WP, was a touch off yesterday. Wilson was not his sharp self. His timing was off and his decisions were, er, questionable. NOT all of them, but more than usual. I did watch a little of it and RW seemed to be intent of sliding rather than making the extra yard. Who know why….he has been spectacular all year, so cut him a little slack. Likewise, the defense let Clemson score twice yesterday….there were some missed assignments and poor tackling….not all the time, but enough that Clemson got 2 touchdowns. Special teams step forward for your tongue lashing…..a missed field goal and a 4 yard punt….enough said.

    The announcers on XM were commenting on our usual high percentage on 3rd down and we were just making them sound like idiots. The defensive stats look far better than the offensive stats.

    You win by playing the ODDs or the PERCENTAGES. You WILL recall that Chuck (whom I liked and still do…) was a gambler and he had a gambler for a QB. Philip is still the, IT IS NEVER OVER QB. We did a lot of hail mary stuff under Amato and won some games….but we LOST MORE>

    TOB said it well, although probably NOT poitically correct….when you can’t make a simple 3 & 1, you really don’t have much confidence in 4 & 1….the 3 & 1, if I remember correctly, was a LONG 1, but we had a REAL 4 & 1. SO, he took the bullet and made the call.

    And since we are ONLY 6 and 3, we the faithful and all knowing WPN want to send the Marine on a suicide mission to make us feel better.

    I have NO qualms about the call. It was NOT a gutsy call, just a call made on sound logic. Lefler was not supposed to shank the punt…..but we had been making errors all day…..do we make ANOTHER error and guarantee a score by giving up the ball on downs or do we punt and live again?

    I am more irritated at TOB for tell the fans to stay in the stadium during the half and cheer the team on that for making the PUNT call yesterday….

    I will be at the Backyard Bistro tomorrow night and will not be lighting an effigy in the parking lot. Based on a lot of comments posted in the other thread, I expect to see the same posters there with a rope…or at least a cauldron of tar and some naked chickens…

    GO PACK….BEAT WFU….we do NOT need this type of media hype and uproar this week. Such stuff should be left for the UNC Coaching Staff and AD….NOT THEIR or OUR TEAMS.

  9. Texpack 11/07/2010 at 5:21 PM #

    We got a look at TOB and how he performs at crunch time yesterday. We would be well advised to find his replacement and let them start building the program.

  10. TheAliasTroll 11/07/2010 at 6:55 PM #

    Glad you’re not the AD.

  11. Thinkpack17 11/07/2010 at 7:40 PM #

    If you know you aren’t going to go for it on 4th and 1 why call a RW off tackle bootleg on 3rd and 1. If you don’t have the heart to go for it on 4th down hand the ball off and pound it inside on 3rd and 1. On the bootleg my gf asked “Why did they call that play on 3rd and 1?” I said don’t worry, the only reason you’d make that call on 3rd down is if you plan on going for it on 4th down…I was wrong.

  12. wvillepack 11/07/2010 at 10:40 PM #

    Clemson laid a huge turd on Saturday. We tried to lay a turd but just farted. ECU gave up 76 pts to Navy and we had trouble scoring! Something has gone terribly wrong with our offense. Better fix it now or we finish 6-6. What happened to the perfect storm?

  13. blpack 11/07/2010 at 10:43 PM #

    Calmer now. It is time to look ahead to Wake. IF we can get our act together we should win out, but we know that. What was wrong yesterday, I don’t know. I think we should go back to the fundamentals in practice this week and approach it as a 3 game playoff with game one this week. We need Russell to play well and we need to do the little things right. We didn’t do that yesterday. Here’s to righting the ship and having no more embarrassing loses.

  14. wvillepack 11/07/2010 at 10:55 PM #

    Maybe we are just not that good. I keep hearing about the talent at UC, FSU, UNC…maybe we don’t have the talent needed to win week to week.

  15. mak4dpak 11/07/2010 at 11:03 PM #

    I made the mistake of driving to Clemson, expecting a win. Clemson did everything it could to give us the game, and we were almost as generous. “You take it, no you take it”, and they did. I totally disagreed with the 4th and one call. Gutless! Not to mention balless! But it wouldn’t have mattered had the offense done their job the whole game. After our opening drive for a TD, we went into the conservative mode, and how many times did we run the ball up the middle on 1st down, for little or no gain. Too many times. Dana Bible bridled the offense, and we played not to lose, instead of to win. We had one deep pass, late in the game, and it resulted in an interference call against Clemson. UNC did us a favor, so it is time for our stupid and conservative coaches to open up our offensive arsenal, and light up the scoreboard, even if it means more no huddle offense. Play to win! We got a second chance for a division title, so how bad do we want it? I guess we will see.

  16. russwuf 11/07/2010 at 11:14 PM #

    tj has been playing well…that was a tough catch to hang onto at the end props to him for risking his bod going sky-high to try to grab it…
    IMHO they havent called enough plays tj’s way really…he is the speed guy….why is Washington returning KOS?..and not TJ ? that makes no sense!
    Also, agreed with other posters on the handoff when Washington or moose runs just to the right side and almost always runs right into the back of our own O-line….HEY BIBLE! GET A CLUE…THAT PLAY DOESNT WORK NOW!STOP IT ALREADY….how many times did we waste a down with that stupid play to the right side getting stuffed at the line?????? a gazzilion!!
    Use Bryan more down the middle for 8-10 yard passes…he has PROVEN that he has great hands…even grabbing some balls one-handed many times….but this run to the right up the backside of our own linemen has got to stop!!

  17. ryebread 11/07/2010 at 11:45 PM #

    Didn’t take the bait at the TOB will win the conference and was a better hire than PJ thread. I never agreed with that premise and still don’t. PJ was the perfect hire for us and we will collectively realize that in the coming years. There’s no way PJ would have punted on 4th and 1 on that side of the field.

    I also didn’t see the game because I was traveling, but I kept up on gametracker. One of my best friends texted me immediately after the game and merely said TOB made a moronic call. I responded “let me guess, clock management.” what can you really say?

    This result is as predictable as the tide. This is the same coach that laid eggs in every chance that he has had to win a title in either the ACC or the Big East. We’re just deceiving ourselves if we think any differently. We hired an 8-4 kind of guy who is going to beat up on the cupcakes, but never really get it done. It was the perfect Fowler hire — HWSNBN part 2.

    For that same reason, I don’t think TOB should be fired unless we finish 6-6. We knew what we were getting and we got it on the cheap. As much as I love football and despite the fact that I spend my cash on it, I think barring a very rare coaching exception (like the opportunity that PJ offered), we are a 7-5 to 9-3 kind of program. Meh….

    Is it basketball season yet? That’s actually a sport that we may win another title in during my life.

  18. wolfpack4ever 11/08/2010 at 12:46 AM #

    I must admit that I refused to look at SFN until the day after. I knew that I was not in a frame of mind to post after the game Saturday.

    I had stressed patience to my son regarding TOB’s tenure. However, I jumped off of the TOB wagon with the ECU game. We were not prepared to play them. Totally uninspired play that day. We still had a chance to win in spite of a poor performance. 3rd down and 4 to 5 yards to get a first down in OT. It is two down territory if played right. We don’t play it right. Interception on a forced pass to the goal line. Navy puts 70+ points on the board against ECU. Enough said.

    I was grateful for FSU giving us that game. Poor FSU quarterback was probably put on suicide watch after the fumble. That win still did not change my opinion of TOB.

    Saturday just reaffirmed what I already believed. The decision to punt with between 3 and 4 minutes to play in the Clemson game was just hideous. Again, it was another day of uninspiring play and questionable play calling. Sadly, TOB is the HWSNBN of football. Where is a d@#% the torpedoes, full speed ahead mentality of a previous military man?

    No way that TOB is fired in mid-season. I firmly believe in our new administration though. I am willing to guess that an A list and B list is in the ready. Most AD(s) want to sink or swim with their own coaching picks.

    P.S. I was pulling for FSU to make the field goal against the tar holes. I never pull for the holes against anyone! If we can not win on our own merits, so be it.

  19. wolfonthehill 11/08/2010 at 7:34 AM #

    ^ wville, unfortunately, has it right up above. In the end, none of the ranting matters… we’re just not really that good.

  20. wolfbuff 11/08/2010 at 8:47 AM #

    I couldn’t pull for the Holes. If we can’t win the division on our own, I certainly don’t want help from anyone else. That said, I’ll take the FSU loss. But it doesn’t really make me feel any better. As for “the call” while I didn’t agree with it then or now, it was not the reason we lost. We lost because this team is weak-minded. You want to win championships, you’ve got to be focused and self-motivated. We appear to be neither. There is no other way to explain the meltdown against VaTech, the bed wetting against ECU, and the atrocity at Clemson. Expect to see more of the same before the season is over.

  21. lsutton5144 11/08/2010 at 9:03 AM #

    TJ shouldn’t be returning kicks until he re-learns how to run north and south rather than east and west.

  22. wolfdog1 11/08/2010 at 10:22 AM #

    If wolfpack people can’t see the dumb-dumb-dumb coaching that went on saturday then we will never get beyond 7-5 – 8-4. This was pitiful, I mean discusting. We need a coach who gets really involved and means business as to what is going on on the field. Just look folks at all of these top tier coaches on the side lines and how they are involved in everthing I mean everything that is going on. But what do we have someone walking back and forth and looking at the ground most of the time. Wolfpack people wake up get a coach in here that will kick a few buts when he has to and one tht will surond himself with good assistants. This is sad really sad. You just watch the cheats they are going to burn us a new one. SAD VERY sAD AND PATHETIC.

  23. rtpack24 11/08/2010 at 10:27 AM #

    You have to go for it. Pressure was on Clemson, only up a point they could not stack the line to stop a run because we could have gone down field considering field position. Also, sends the wrong message to the entire team. Hell he would have kicked the field goal against FSU if the crowd and Dana Bible hadn’t talked him out of it. Play to win!!!!!!!!!!!

  24. choppack1 11/08/2010 at 10:56 AM #

    That game hurts. I was there and I blew a gasket when he made the call.

    I actually had to leave my seat to cool down for a little bit.

    It was the wrong call. I guess what surprises me is that TOB has gone for it plenty since he’s been at NC State. I do think it’s somewhat telling that the 3 moments that I recall him not going for it is when the D has been playing reasonably well. (The FSU game this year – when it was instinct to kick the FG, the USC game last year in the 4th quarter, and now this.)

    I just have a couple of questions:
    1) Did he take responsibility for the bad call?
    2) If given similar circumstances, would he do the same thing?
    3) Did he learn anything from this?

    Look, if you supported TOB before this game – you should support him after it. I don’t think he’s changed one bit – and maybe, just maybe, this will wake his ass up enough for him to realize that sometimes you have to show faith in your team. (Although, he’d probably say that he showed faith in both his offense and defense by not going for it.)

    Bottom line – this sh*t happens in college football. I haven’t been so mad at our football coach on one play since Amato punted vs. tOSU w/ about 7 minutes left in the game, down by 17…tOSU fumbled the punt and a historical comeback was ON.

    How we play vs. Wake, UNC and UMd will ultimately decide whether or not we’re conference champions. There’s certainly a chance – especially if TOB doesn’t take ownership of it – that the team quits on him right now. If he owns it and learns from his mistake, I think we may just be all right. If he doesn’t – and especially if we lose out or win 1 of 3 (or 4) w/ lackluster effort- it may be time to make that change now

  25. choppack1 11/08/2010 at 11:12 AM #

    A quick search of Pack Pride shows that he stands by his decision:

    “I punted on fourth and one because I didn’t think we’d punt the ball four yards. You punt the ball inside the 10-yard line like you are supposed to, you use your timeouts, which we did, you get the ball back with over three minutes. That’s plenty of time to go win a football game.”

    “We didn’t make it on third and one so I didn’t have a lot of faith we would have made it on fourth and one.”

    I’ll be surprised if this team does better than 1-3 in its last 4 games. I wonder how often we’ve punted inside the 10 this year?

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