Nine Years of Sellouts – What Have We Gotten In Return?

'09 Football AD & Department Editor's Picks Fans NCS Football Stat of the Day60

This season is the 9th consecutive where football season tickets have sold out at Carter-Finley. Here is a recent entry about selling out season tickets.

For this entry, I am going to focus only on home football games. Set aside the LTRs, gas, hotel and airfare for road trips, donations to the Wolfpack Club, merchandise, tailgate food and beverage, etc.

What have we gotten as far as wins and losses for the face value price of our tickets over the last 9 seasons?

Our record at home from the 2001 season to the current 2009 season is 34-25 (.576). So basically the customers go home happy 58% of the time.

Under Chuck Amato our home record was 24-16 (.600) and under Tom O’Brien it is 10-9 (.526).

Our ACC home record is only 15-18 (.455). So against our conference peers the customers go home happy 46% of the time. And that makes our non-conference home record 19-7 (.731).

That non-conference record includes some 1-AA cupcakes over the years. We are 10-0 against 1-AA schools (including 2-0 this season), meaning our 1-A home record is 24-25 (.490). So against “real schools” the customers go home happy just under half the time.

Against schools in BCS conferences our home record is 19-22 (.463), which includes our 15-18 ACC record, making our record against non-ACC BCS schools 4-4 (.500). Against 1-A non-BCS schools our record is 5-3 (.625).

By the way, the only 2 seasons where we were more than 1 game above .500 at home were Philip Rivers’ junior and senior years.

Where is our home field advantage? The fans show up and are loud and the stadium is improved. Do we need more pine trees?

After the Duke game it seems like a lot of folks have been regretting investing in football tickets. Have we been getting a good enough return on our investments? Not to mention all the other aspects of football mentioned above where we also spend our time and money. I realize you can’t win ’em all but are you, the customer, going home happy often enough?

And if you’re not going home happy often enough, what can you do about it? If you have LTRs, they have you over a barrell. And you have the dilemma, if you don’t support the program financially it won’t improve but if you do you feel like you’re supporting the status quo. E-mailing the AD won’t help unless “Thanks for your support, Go Pack” makes you feel better.

What do you think?

Record Breakdowns
ACC
Boston College 1-1
Clemson 1-3
Duke 1-1
Florida St 2-2
Georgia Tech 0-3
Maryland 1-3
Miami 1-1
North Carolina 2-2
Virginia 3-0
Virginia Tech 0-1
Wake Forest 3-1
BCS
Indiana 1-0
Louisville 0-1
Ohio St 0-1
Pitt 1-0
South Carolina 0-1
South Florida 0-1
Texas Tech 1-0
UConn 1-0
Non-BCS
Akron 0-1
Central Florida 0-1
ECU 1-1
Middle Tenn St 1-0
New Mexico 1-0
Ohio 1-0
Southern Miss 1-0
1-AA
Appalachian St 1-0
E Kentucky 1-0
East Tenn St 1-0
Gardner Webb 1-0
Murray St 1-0
Richmond 1-0
UMass 1-0
W Carolina 1-0
William & Mary 1-0
Wofford 1-0
Yearly
2001: 3-3
2002: 6-1
2003: 6-1
2004: 2-4
2005: 4-3
2006: 3-4
2007: 3-4
2008: 4-3
2009: 3-2

About WV Wolf

Graduated from NCSU in 1996 with a degree in statistics. Born and inbred in West "By God" Virginia and now live in Raleigh where I spend my time watching the Wolfpack, the Mountaineers and the Carolina Hurricanes as well as making bar graphs for SFN. I'm @wvncsu on the Twitter machine.

'09 Football AD & Department Editor's Picks Fans NCS Football Stat of the Day

60 Responses to Nine Years of Sellouts – What Have We Gotten In Return?

  1. ruffles31 10/13/2009 at 4:35 PM #

    If you are Fowler, how does he come back from this statistic?

    Since he became AD, only 4 BCS schools have not won a conference title in Football, Men’s or Women’s Basketball, or Baseball. They are:

    NC State
    Arkansas
    Texas Tech
    South Florida (They joined the Big East in 2005)

    Arkansas has won multiple division titles in football and Texas Tech was a tri-division champion in 2008 with Texas and Oklahoma.

    Thinking about this deeper. Arkansas and Texas Tech have both experienced good bouts of prosperity without being a conference champion. Texas Tech was in the nation’s conscience last year with Harrell to Crabtree. Arkansas has made several runs in the NCAA tournament, their baseball team went to the CWS last year, and their football teams created the “Wildcat” and have had players like Darren McFadden, Felix Jones, and now have a very exciting coach in Petrino and a great QB in Ryan Mallet. South Florida has been ranked as high as #2 in the nation and has several big wins over the years. Oh yeah, and they punked us last year 41-10 in a rainstorm.

    So, forget Iowa State. Forget Northwestern. I dare you find a worse athletic program in the past 10 years than ours. Any takers?

  2. imawolf 10/13/2009 at 4:39 PM #

    Alpha Wolf Says:
    October 13th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
    No, we’ve become Tulane

    Interesting thought, I have often kind of likened us to Mississippi State in the SEC…………..somewhere in the middle trying to get out…

  3. rdjennin 10/13/2009 at 4:53 PM #

    Do you realize that somewhere out there fans just like us, who are disapointed at their performance right now are saying “What have we become, NC State?”

  4. RickJ 10/13/2009 at 5:30 PM #

    I’ll take a shot at the LTR issue. I purchased 4 basketball and 4 football LTR’s on the very first go around when they were first talking about building the ESA (RBC). There was a pretty good discount if you went in early. The RBC was delayed for several years so basketball was slow coming to bear.

    One of the most interesting aspects of Amato’s hire was that we had won exactly the same number of games as we had lost in our football history when he came on. Amato went 12 games over .500 in his seven seasons here. This doesn’t make him a good head coach, a great guy or anything else other than he won at least much as anyone had a right to expect. Football at NC State is a tough nut. It will be very difficult for anyone to be ultra successful here. Think about South Carolina – they have as good a football coach as has ever coached in college football and he has clawed his way into the Top 25 in his fifth year. To do this he had to win 3 out of 4 close games. In the next few weeks he will face Alabama, Tennessee and Florida. If he is lucky, he will win one.

    In summary, I am not sorry at all about purchasing LTR’s football. I would love for us to do better but we have done about what could be expected.

    Basketball, on the other hand, has been a big disappointment. ESPN recently did an all time Sagarin rating for Division 1 basketball programs. NC State logged in at number 22. There is no reason in the world why we should not have an elite basketball program.

  5. BJD95 10/13/2009 at 5:44 PM #

    ^ I agree, to a large extent. My football expectations are more modest than for basketball (we’re nowhere near a #22 football program historically, despite there being more serious competitors in basketball). But I do regret buying LTRs, because even my more modest expectations aren’t being met. Wolfpack football simply isn’t worth paying a premium (above and beyond standard WC membership and season ticket costs) to see. And I locked in my 5 seats (on aisle, 35 yard line in upper deck) at $1,500 per seat. Can’t imagine how pissed I’d be about paying more.

    Even then, I’m not asking for Hall of Fame accomplishment. I want Valvano-level success for hoops (which comes with ups and downs), and Sheridan-level success in football.

  6. robopack 10/13/2009 at 5:56 PM #

    This is just beyond belief. Just tell me how Wake Forest does it??????

  7. highstick 10/13/2009 at 5:58 PM #

    9 years of sell outs and what have we got? “Sold Out”! Doesn’t matter if it’s Carter or RBC! We’ve been sold out by Lee and the Boneheads who won’t deal with the obvious!

  8. robopack 10/13/2009 at 6:00 PM #

    How does Wake recruit in basketball and win in football??????

  9. john of sparta 10/13/2009 at 6:13 PM #

    9 years of sell-outs:
    1. 9 years.
    2. sell.
    3. outs.
    tulane? northwestern?
    they’re private.
    how about UTEP?

  10. ncsu05mit10 10/13/2009 at 6:33 PM #

    I agree with the poster that said this goes beyond Fowler. There is a certain arrogance at the upper levels of management and administration about the position of NCSU at the national level, that somehow we’re already good enough, so what’s the fuss over?

    Yes, we’ve got some great programs and some really great facilities, but tons of schools do. I don’t care about a statistic that states “more high school students from NC apply to NCSU than any other school.” Wow. The largest university in the state pulling the most applicants? Or “our SAT scores have risen every year.” Compare them to UNC’s or GT’s… then they become very average.

    The sum of our parts is clearly not greater than the whole. We’ve got some respectable programs, some nice facilities, a few pretty parts of campus that aren’t brick, and a couple of nice traditions… but they don’t work together to create an environment that sells itself on all levels.

    That’s why throwing more money to the athletic budget doesn’t solve the problem. We’re still going to miss out on athletes that determine Clemson, VT, etc have an overall better student environment.

    Our investments need to address the connectivity of these issues: academics, student life / campus culture / campus aesthetic, and top of the lines facilities (research/athletic).

    Whether or not Carter Finley is sold out makes no difference. Wake wins and their entire alumni couldn’t fill their stadium. Their investments of their school in general sell the athletes.

    Our next Chancellor will determine quite a bit.

  11. LRM 10/13/2009 at 6:40 PM #

    “Have we become Iowa State?!?”

    My buddy and I refer to them as the NC State of the Big XII. And it’s funny every time.

  12. elvislives 10/13/2009 at 6:52 PM #

    Let’s be nice. They tackle at Iowa State, so it’s unfair to make that comparison.

  13. blpack 10/13/2009 at 9:12 PM #

    When is enough? We have given until it hurts. People I talk with are not disappointed, they are discouraged. Call your WPC rep, write the chancellor, write your congressman, do something. Be civil, but ask yourself, what do we have to hang our hats on in athletics? This has gone on too long.

  14. howlie 10/13/2009 at 9:31 PM #

    Excellent (original) post by Alpha.

  15. OwenDorm83 10/13/2009 at 10:26 PM #

    Interesting to see the opinions on this thread.

    I was sitting there last year in my LTRs with 3 college buddies – one from high school and 2 more that I met first day in Owen Dorm, fall 1979. As FSU is pulling away from us and another “L” is inevitable, I thought to myself:

    If I could be ANYWHERE right now, where would that be?

    And my answer was: right here.

    Losing sucks, but we get a little whif of what winning smells like every now and then. The PITT game this year was a LOT of fun. The Wake and U games last year were tons of fun. Tailgating w/ all the folks is great.

    And I’m like a previous poster: I don’t have to have national champs every year. V-like success in bball and Sheridan like in fball would be great as compared to the last few years..

  16. NCSU84 10/13/2009 at 10:31 PM #

    Nine years of sell outs and what have we gotten? My reply:

    If we are truly fans (and I assume those who are reading this are), we are upset, we are disappointed, we are hurt. We have every right to expect more wins, championships, and bowls. We are justified in being mad at the play calling, inept coaching, and poor on the field performances. But as true fans, we will continue to support our team, our school, our red and white. So, nine years, ten, twelve – does it really matter? Because when that day comes, when we have that break out season, when we play for a championship (note I say when), it will be oh so sweet. I hope to enjoy that day with all of you – I know you will be there.

  17. Wolfpack704 10/13/2009 at 10:46 PM #

    Bottom line (in my opinion) is that we need a new AD and a new coach. The fact that the Wolfpack nation isn’t completely outraged says everyting to me – somewhere along the line, we got used to accepting being mediocre, optimistically thinking that the next year would be the year we breakthrough – we haven’t. We hired O’Brien hoping that we would be more disciplined, more effecient, more likely to win the games we’re supposed to win. Our team is just as careless and undisciplined as we were under Amato, and have less talent. I’ve watched Wake and Duke offensive players run around and by our defense – are you serious? If we didn’t have Russell Wilson, can you imagine how bad we would be?

    Maybe I’m being overdramatic, but here’s what i recommend – either O’Brien or Fowler must be gone before December (or both). We have the facilities, fan base, location … everything necessary to completely run the state of NC in football, and be a consistent contender in our division. The ACC is wide open – we need to make our move before we get worse. Hire someone who can both a) coach and b) recruit and retain a solid staff that can recruit nationally. No reason why our program can’t be a national player – I’m not saying Texas, Florida, USC … I’m saying Virginia Tech, Georgia (top 25 every year). Losing to basketball schools like Wake and Duke is completely unacceptable and embarassing. I hope O’Brien does what he’s done for the past 2 years … turn it around mid-season and win late. However, I hope our university leadership is smart enough to notice the pattern, determine a change (at AD and/or coach) is necessary, and isn’t afraid to spend the $$$ to make the right moves for the program as a whole.

    I’ll support O’Brien while he’s here, but he is not the answer – we can and should demand more.

  18. 61Packer 10/13/2009 at 11:12 PM #

    I bought 2 LTR seats for basketball (in the first year of availability) for $6000, and almost as an afterthought, decided to buy 2 seats for football as well- the LTR payment allowed me to buy up to 4 football seats at that giving level. State was still a basketball school then, and basketball was what brought me and I think most Wolfpackers into the LTR program. The following season, I decided to buy 2 more football seats, and was fortunate enough to get the 2 seats directly behind my original pair. Being about two-thirds of the way up on the West side lower level at about the 10-yard line, with aisle seats, I feel the LTR football commitment was worth it.

    So do a lot of other people. Visit the Wolfpack Club sometime and check out the LTR board for football; it’s essentially full. Despite our season so far, there is still much interest in this football program. And I like our chances of improvement over those of FSU, Clemson, BC and Maryland. I wouldn’t want to be them right now or for the next several years.

    But basketball, that’s another story. I recently upgraded my LTR seats from Section 125 to Section 124 at no cost, moving to 2 much better seats. The basketball LTR seating chart remains full in the lower level sideline sections as you would expect, but the end zones are emptying out compared to what they were doing a few years ago. The end zones in Carter-Finley are doing anything BUT emptying out. Look at the football Red Zone. Are basketball tickets selling that well?

    We aren’t going to sink to Tulane’s level in football anytime soon. However, we probably aren’t going to rise to Tulane’s level in basketball anytime soon, either. Our basketball teams have degenerated into tenants in their “own house”, so to speak. LTRs may keep most of the RBC Center seats sold, but our current basketball program won’t keep fannies in those seats forever. And this is the problem that basketball LTRs are going to have to deal with. Not next year or the year after, but right here, right now.

    The fans can do no more than a lifetime commitment. There’s nothing else we can do except go to the games and cheer for the Wolfpack, and hope that our athletics are in good administrative hands. Lately they haven’t seemed to be.

  19. highstick 10/13/2009 at 11:24 PM #

    OwenDorm, attitudes like that is why us guys in Alexander used to wipe you out every year in the intramural leagues!! You gotta win, not just accept what Lee and the powers that be hand you!!

    Think more positive!!

  20. highstick 10/13/2009 at 11:25 PM #

    Fowler or O’Brien? Hmmmm! Is that a choice that one ponders very long???

  21. Dogbreath 10/14/2009 at 6:08 AM #

    Let’s take the longview. Best case scenario is that O’Brien can right the ship and get us to 7-5 this year. Woodward can show Fowler the door in Dec an announce that we are conducting a national search. After signing day, we can announce that Fowler will assume the AD job at the end of 2010 season, at which point we hire a new football coach (Gruden?)

  22. pack80 10/14/2009 at 9:53 AM #

    As a grad of 1980 I was there for our last conference title. And back then we complained about Bo Rein and his 3 yard and a cloud of dust offense. I sat through 3 straight 3 and 8 years with Tom Reed; the antics of Monte Kiffin; the glory days of Sheridan; the .500 ball of O’Cain; the wasted potential of Amato and I will continue with whatever TOB brings to us because I love NCSU and NCSU football. The ups and downs will continue because that is our lot in life, but I will be there. Now when we are down 38-0 at the end of the 3rd quarter (Clemson) will I leave the game? Damn right I will cause I OWN my LTR seats and I can do that. Will I be back in my LTR seats for the next game, cheering the PACK? Damn right cause I’m a fan of NCSU.
    Learn it, Love it, Live it cause it’s the way of the PACK!

  23. GoldenChain 10/14/2009 at 11:12 AM #

    ^ I was an 80 grad also, saw that 50+ yd FG hit the post and bounce IN against PSU!
    I basically gave up when I lost my parking space (which is now RV parking outside the old ‘student gate’) and my 37yd line seats on the 1st row of the upper deck once they started the LTR drive. Some of my classmates were asking wasn’t I going to jump in on the LTRs? No way. I gave up my seats (because I wouldn’t buy ’em, damnation I’m in the textile business and am just glad I haven’t been unemployed!).
    I’ve been able to get tickets both season and individual any time I wanted them since then without the capial outlay.
    Besides, either I’m getting old or the crowd is getting rougher (probably a little of both). I can watch virtually every game on TV without the 2:15 drive each way, the traffic, the expense, etc & soforth. Besides, nothing is worse than driving over two hours after watching a unx team with a losing record win a game against us that they never should have. What a waste of a Saturday!
    I could have listened on the radio while do my “honey-do” list and avoided the unx mouths as I left MY STADIUM.

  24. bradleyb123 10/14/2009 at 11:22 AM #

    Nine years of sellouts. What has it gotten us? A premature blog on this subject. This is TOB’s THIRD YEAR. Are we supposed to be winning championships already? Give him a break. He’s doing a fine job building something for us. And besides, THIS year is far from over. Thanks to a weak division, I still think we have a glimmer of hope for a berth in the ACC championship game.

    Everyone is so down after that Duke loss. I admit, the defense was horrible in that game. But think about what actually happened down the stretch. We were down 7, and Duke had never led by more than 7, despite being hotter than a two dollar pistol all night. Our awful defense STOPPED them and forced the punt. We GAVE them a TD by virtue of being too stupid to get away from the punt. Then our awful defense stopped them AGAIN, forced the punt, and they fell on the loose ball for another GIFT of a touchdown.

    Had we not fumbled those punt returns like that (bad bounces), it’s very possible we score and keep the game within reach until the end. I refuse to think Duke’s defense would have kept us out of the endzone for the rest of the game.

    All that made the game LOOK like it was an out-of-control blowout loss. But that’s really not how the game went, even if the final margin says so. Unfortunate bounces happened and the wheels came off.

    Basically, we lost to a team that was on fire. It’s unfortunate that the bad bounces made it feel like such a bad loss. We were very much in the game if you take away those unfortunate bounces.

    Keep your heads high, people. I believe we will bounce back from this. We’ll be OK. This season is not lost yet. We’re 3-3 and I say there’s still some hope for a good season.

  25. Rick 10/14/2009 at 2:29 PM #

    “We’re closest to being a NOTHING school, ala Northwestern. By far”

    Truer words were never spoken
    3 football coaches
    3 basketball coaches

    varying degrees of SUCK

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