Nine Years of Sellouts – What Have We Gotten In Return?

This season is the 9th consecutive where football season tickets have sold out at Carter-Finley. Here is a recent entry about selling out season tickets.

For this entry, I am going to focus only on home football games. Set aside the LTRs, gas, hotel and airfare for road trips, donations to the Wolfpack Club, merchandise, tailgate food and beverage, etc.

What have we gotten as far as wins and losses for the face value price of our tickets over the last 9 seasons?

Our record at home from the 2001 season to the current 2009 season is 34-25 (.576). So basically the customers go home happy 58% of the time.

Under Chuck Amato our home record was 24-16 (.600) and under Tom O’Brien it is 10-9 (.526).

Our ACC home record is only 15-18 (.455). So against our conference peers the customers go home happy 46% of the time. And that makes our non-conference home record 19-7 (.731).

That non-conference record includes some 1-AA cupcakes over the years. We are 10-0 against 1-AA schools (including 2-0 this season), meaning our 1-A home record is 24-25 (.490). So against “real schools” the customers go home happy just under half the time.

Against schools in BCS conferences our home record is 19-22 (.463), which includes our 15-18 ACC record, making our record against non-ACC BCS schools 4-4 (.500). Against 1-A non-BCS schools our record is 5-3 (.625).

By the way, the only 2 seasons where we were more than 1 game above .500 at home were Philip Rivers’ junior and senior years.

Where is our home field advantage? The fans show up and are loud and the stadium is improved. Do we need more pine trees?

After the Duke game it seems like a lot of folks have been regretting investing in football tickets. Have we been getting a good enough return on our investments? Not to mention all the other aspects of football mentioned above where we also spend our time and money. I realize you can’t win ’em all but are you, the customer, going home happy often enough?

And if you’re not going home happy often enough, what can you do about it? If you have LTRs, they have you over a barrell. And you have the dilemma, if you don’t support the program financially it won’t improve but if you do you feel like you’re supporting the status quo. E-mailing the AD won’t help unless “Thanks for your support, Go Pack” makes you feel better.

What do you think?

Record Breakdowns
Boston College 1-1
Clemson 1-3
Duke 1-1
Florida St 2-2
Georgia Tech 0-3
Maryland 1-3
Miami 1-1
North Carolina 2-2
Virginia 3-0
Virginia Tech 0-1
Wake Forest 3-1
Indiana 1-0
Louisville 0-1
Ohio St 0-1
Pitt 1-0
South Carolina 0-1
South Florida 0-1
Texas Tech 1-0
UConn 1-0
Akron 0-1
Central Florida 0-1
ECU 1-1
Middle Tenn St 1-0
New Mexico 1-0
Ohio 1-0
Southern Miss 1-0
Appalachian St 1-0
E Kentucky 1-0
East Tenn St 1-0
Gardner Webb 1-0
Murray St 1-0
Richmond 1-0
UMass 1-0
W Carolina 1-0
William & Mary 1-0
Wofford 1-0
2001: 3-3
2002: 6-1
2003: 6-1
2004: 2-4
2005: 4-3
2006: 3-4
2007: 3-4
2008: 4-3
2009: 3-2

About WV Wolf

Graduated from NCSU in 1996 with a degree in statistics. Born and inbred in West "By God" Virginia and now live in Raleigh where I spend my time watching the Wolfpack, the Mountaineers and the Carolina Hurricanes as well as making bar graphs for SFN. I'm @wvncsu on the Twitter machine.

'09 Football AD & Department Editor's Picks Fans NCS Football Stat of the Day

60 Responses to Nine Years of Sellouts – What Have We Gotten In Return?

  1. Plz2BStateFan 10/13/2009 at 1:21 PM #

    The first cracks in the TOB era have shown up. And its a major crack. I hope to god TOB is doing more behind the scenes than he is letting on in his press conferences.

    I only have normal season tickets. I could never justify LTRs when some of the seats in the bleachers have a better view of the field than the LTR holders. The only significant investment I have in NC State athletics is my passion, faith(in TOB NOT Fowler), and weekends.

  2. Daily Update 10/13/2009 at 1:29 PM #

    I don’t really expect us to ever win anything. Maybe we get an Atlantic division title every 5-10 years. But it would be nice to be halfway decent again (7-9) wins per year. Losing at CF is a real downer. I left the Duke game with 9 minutes to go in the 2nd half.

  3. CarnifeX 10/13/2009 at 1:35 PM #

    “Nine Years of Sellouts – What Have We Gotten In Return?” we are asked. We have gotten really good at tailgating, and some say we should eliminate the pass out at the half. Bullish.

  4. Sw0rdf1sh 10/13/2009 at 1:40 PM #

    I have had my emotions brought to each possible extreme…does that count as something? I have lost more hair and sleep than I wanted.

    In regards to the bleacher seats….I did that for a few years while Chuck was here and had my ears beaten into submission by the Scoreboard. I’m so glad I moved to the LTR’s.

  5. Alpha Wolf 10/13/2009 at 1:42 PM #

    NC State is a school with incredible potential, potential that has been unrealized and left fallow for the past 17-18 years. Yes, there have been a few good moments, but by no means is the university’s record of academic excellence reflected on the athletic fields.

    We can point our finger at Lee Fowler, and the idea that has great merit. A man who says that you cannot beat UNC has already defeated himself.

    The issue, however, is larger than Fowler. It is one where bureaucratic stalemate has become an art form. NC State, for all the good it does, is a school that is inept at PR, and incompetent at advertising itself. It has allowed its image to be overshadowed by its so-called sister institution, a school that in reality is not so much the better of NC State as it is the better at managing its image.

    How does that translate to athletic success? Ask youself how many times you hear during a UNC game what a wonderful school it is. How times do the announcers talk about the beautiful campus, the academic rigor, the wonders that are a UNC degree? The answer is: plenty. And that is impressed on young athletes and their parents time and time again. Later when a UNC coach knocks on the door to recruit an athlete, chances are they are already halfway sold on the idea of going to Chapel Hill.

    Maybe UNC is all of those things. That’s not my quibble. What I am trying to day however is this: NC State needs to raise its profile, raise its image and improve how it manages itself in a lot of areas and start “seeming like it is.” Videor quis est, in Latin, our state’s motto reversed.

  6. saywhat 10/13/2009 at 1:47 PM #

    For the last few days I’ve been looking online for the video clips that the WPC put out for the Goal line drive campaign. I thought it would be very interesting to hear what they considered goals at that time. If anyone could find those please post them.

  7. choppack1 10/13/2009 at 1:54 PM #

    You see…that’s the thing about being a fan.

    It sucks. What have the Gamecocks gotten in return?

    What have Cleveland Brown fans gotten in return?

    What have the Cubs fans gotten in return?

    There are no guarantees in life..and just because you sell out a stadium for 9 years it doesn’t mean that you will win championships or even have winning seasons.

    In some ways, I’ve often wondered if NC State’s futility is God’s way of punishing me for having twisted priorities.

    I haven’t been to more than one game in the RBC since Sid’s first year. I don’t think I even went to one of our games last year…and I can’t say that I missed it.

    This year, I’ve missed our 2 DAA games, and I haven’t had much tailgating time for the others. But I really don’t know how much longer I’ll keep this up. I’ve got a son who is almost 2 now, and all I could think of Saturday was “I missed time w/ him for this???”

    It’s a reality that TOB will have to confront here perhaps shortly. Fan support is a lagging indicator. Fans were expecting better this year…and you’ll see the evidence next year and next spring in attendance.

    But the problem w/ emotional relationships is that they are emotional. There’s not a lot rational about cloaking yourself in team colors, packing up the car, traveling 4 hours back and forth 6-8 Saturday’s in the fall…but hey, once you’ve tasted just a little, you want more. And the truth is, most of 50K fans are looking to relive those moments that where we’ve been rewarded in the past.

  8. BJD95 10/13/2009 at 1:57 PM #

    Serious question – what happens if you just quit paying on your LTRs? Do they just write it off and start over with some new saps?

  9. WV Wolf 10/13/2009 at 1:58 PM #

    Alpha Wolf, those are really some great points.

    As far as image, does it seem like we try to put on the image that we’re a football school when in reality we’re not even close?

    choppack1 brings up some good points too. I kinda get the feeling that more and more fans are wondering if there are better ways to spend their time and money.

  10. choppack1 10/13/2009 at 2:15 PM #

    BJD – I guess we can check w/ the Panthers.

    WV Wolf – I think we’re closer to a football school now more than any other entity.

    In a sense, NC State is in a little bit of a no win situation. UNC has resources and money that we don’t have…if we thump our chests too loudly, they’ll react and steal our thunder. However, we should take a lesson from VaTech…somehow they’ve surpassed their “sister” institution in both football and basketball.

    We need aggressive leadership. The kind of leadership that thinks both long and short term. Long term, we need to do things to enhance the schools’ reputation and move from a commuter school to a school that is a community. A critical component to this is revitalization of Hillsborough Street – and maybe even some politically incorrect traditions that we have become too risk adverse to embrace (read Wolfstock)

  11. lynchjm 10/13/2009 at 2:36 PM #

    UConn was an Independent in 2003. They didn’t join the Big East until 2004.

  12. LRM 10/13/2009 at 2:40 PM #

    “Serious question – what happens if you just quit paying on your LTRs? Do they just write it off and start over with some new saps?”

    Pretty much exactly what they do — it’s not like they lose money because they’ve gotten the revenue from it for how ever many years, and now they can turn around and re-sell those seats at a higher price. It’s brilliant, really, the way they designed the program.

    Back in ’02, six of us went in together and got 12 LTRs. Over the past few years, for various reasons, four of those gave up their LTRs and all they did was stop paying across the board — one of them was about two years behind on paying his LTRs and WPC dues and it never caught up with him. Four years ago, another couple switched their existing LTR seats so they could move over to sit with the two of us that remained (four LTRs), but it wasn’t easy to make that happen.

    This summer, another buddy gave up his two LTRs and just stopped paying as well. My sister wanted to get those seats so she could sit with us, and it was a real hassle to make happen — I literally spent several hours on hold and kept getting disconnected and then never got the person I needed to speak with whenever I tried to call back. In the end, she got the tickets but not the LTRs, and will have to try that after the season.

    My question has always been, where will the money come from in a few years when all of the LTRs are paid off? I imagine they anticipated a certain percentage of turnover and this is actually a good thing for the continued revenue stream. Especially if by some miracle we start winning.

    The problem is, the initial surge of LTRs came on the hope and promise of the future (fool me once, shame on you). That will NEVER happen again to this bunch (fool me twice, shame on me).

  13. choppack1 10/13/2009 at 2:45 PM #

    And here’s the problem w/ blind loyalty.

    You are treated like sh*t.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – the sports business is one of the few where customers can be treated like garbage and still come back.

  14. 66pack 10/13/2009 at 2:51 PM #

    TOB states in n&o article that the poor play on D is not due to the coaching or to the scheme but due to players not making plays.That must mean that your recruitting needs improvement because these players are not football players.

  15. choppack1 10/13/2009 at 3:09 PM #

    66pack – I’d have to disagree w/ TOB. I think part of the problem is that we insist on using LBs to defend WRs….but what do I know.

  16. BJD95 10/13/2009 at 3:24 PM #

    He’s getting to the point where it doesn’t MATTER whether it’s coaching or personnel. He’s responsible, period. After this mulligan year (which I am willing to give because years 1 and 2 were ahead of schedule), I’m going to expect results and won’t give a damn whether it’s staff, philosophy, or personnel.

  17. old13 10/13/2009 at 3:35 PM #

    choppack1 said: “I think we’re closer to a football school now more than any other entity.”

    Agreed. But if not for the initial hopes that CTC raised in FB, the CF improvements, the eventual hiring of TOB, and the 20+-year demise of BB, I’m not certain that would be the case now. Not that FB would be deminished so much (see Holtz and Sheridan), but the major legacy of Wolfpack athletics (and the ACC, for that matter) goes back to Wolfpack BB of the 1950s with The Old Grey Fox and the Dixie Classic.

    As for Duke FB, Duke has a rich legacy in FB, although one has to go back a number of years (30s-50s and some of the 60s) to find it. Duke played in a Rose Bowl (among others) IN DURHAM in the 1940s (due to war threats on the west coast) and was a powerhouse in college football during those times. Unlike Duke, NCSU has never been a national factor in FB. Now understanding that I was raised on Duke football (my mother was a grad) and came to NCSU only in my late teens, I have no problem with Duke regaining some capability in FB. Afterall, it would only make the conference stronger. BUT I also look for NCSU to “keep pace” and field a team that is competitive in the conference, if not nationally – those are my expectations of my alma matre. Unfortunately our current and past administrations seem satisfied with mediocrity and malase, not only in athletics, but apparently all aspect of university life.

  18. primacyone 10/13/2009 at 3:40 PM #


    Believe it or not, right now we are a hell of a lot closer to being a basketball school than we are a football school. Hell, right now DUKE is a lot closer to being a football school than we are. REALLY.

  19. BJD95 10/13/2009 at 3:46 PM #

    We’re closest to being a NOTHING school, ala Northwestern. By far.

  20. rdjennin 10/13/2009 at 4:00 PM #

    In all seriousness, at this point, honestly, I have more faith in the basketball program than the football program. At least Sid is recruiting some pretty nasty classes in basketball. Let’s be honest, recruiting is everything in basketball.

    I used to say, “if your football team needs a new direction, get a tom-tom obrien.” Now, just like sometimes when my tom-tom takes me through a “sketchy” part of town, I wonder what the hell is going on. However, in the end I always get to my destination. I can only hope this is the case with our football program.

  21. primacyone 10/13/2009 at 4:02 PM #

    You could be right BJD. If things don’t change soon with us, DUKE will be building a new football stadium with top facilities and whooping our tails in football every year. We could be getting whooped by UNC and DUKE in Football, Basketball, and Baseball on a year in and year out basis. REALLY.

  22. wolfpack95 10/13/2009 at 4:10 PM #

    Have we become Iowa State?!?

  23. primacyone 10/13/2009 at 4:16 PM #

    If I’m not mistaken, Iowa State has a kicker that can kick the ball more than 40 yards on a kick off. We don’t.

    How is that even possible in year 3? REALLY.

  24. Alpha Wolf 10/13/2009 at 4:17 PM #

    No, we’ve become Tulane.

  25. WV Wolf 10/13/2009 at 4:18 PM #

    Iowa St is 3-3, 0-2 in the conference and just gave up 40+ points to a basketball school (Kansas). Sound familiar?

Leave a Reply