It’s Time The ACC Admitted Its Mistake – Boston College Shouldn’t Be An ACC Team

The annual bowl rota of the ACC took a major nosedive this week when the conference refused to give the Gator Bowl flexibility in selecting an ACC team to play in their annual game.  In place of the Gator Bowl, the Independence Bowl now takes its place.  The Independence is in Shreveport, Louisiana, deep in the heart of SEC country, far from the footprint of the ACC, and in a city that would never rank in any sane person’s list of great American tourist destinations.

So basically in simple terms, the ACC gave up the Gator Bowl — a convenient trip for fans of most ACC members — for the sake of Boston College.

That’s because the ACC’s within-one-win selection rule is for BC. You could argue Wake Forest too, but Wake has had decent representation when they go to bowl games, given their size and home market. You cannot say either for BC.

Tell me again why the ACC allowed BC to join. As I recall:

1. It is in Boston, and has a huge TV market. Which is funny. Did the ACC even complete cursory due diligence prior to issuing an invitation? Boston is all about The Sawks, The Patriots, The Celtics, the Bruins and then maybe, just maybe, BC. In other words, they have as much impact in that market as Manchester United does in the Raleigh-Cary MSA. Not much. If any.

2. Getting the magical 12th member to create a conference championship game for football. So far, that conference title game has been a disaster. It is so popular that a few Texas HIGH SCHOOLS regularly have more fans at its games than does the ACC Title Game. Think about that – the ACCT game for football is such a failure it is smaller than a Texas high school game. That’s a REAL big time sporting even you created there, Mr. Swofford.

3. The ACC tournament in Fenway Park. To which I say “so what?” Yes, Fenway is historic and home to a major league baseball team. It is also a long way away from the center of the base of the conference and would not draw throngs locally. Did I mention the Red Sox?  And even though college baseball is gaining in popularity, it is nevertheless a non-revenue sport that should never have much consideration where weighty matters like conference expansion is concerned.

4. The ACC Basketball Tournament in Boston. Well, that would draw the usual high-value donors, but the bulk of the fans watch the tourney on TV and don’t give a damn where it is played. Unless it is in NC, DC or the ATL, where they can go and buy ducats from the first and second round losers to see “their” teams. I know plenty of NC and Duke fans that make plans to do that every year. Boston is a pretty expensive trip to go scalp tickets.

None of those drivers has worked out for the ACC. BC is a drain on the other eleven teams.  Its continued presence is effectively punishing the fans of the other teams.  Call it what it is…a boat anchor that’s starting to drag the ship to the bottom with it.

West_VirginiaI think that the conference should quietly invite a team closer to the rest of the league that would bring some interest. West Virginia maybe, if you could talk them into jumping ship out of the Big East.  WVU and Virginia Tech are blood rivals non-pareil, and their annual football game ranks just below the much-more-hyped classics such as Ohio State-Michigan or Alabama-Auburn.  They take it seriously, and it is the sort of game – given the proper promotion – that can become a signature matchup for the league, one that is at least the match of Miami-FSU.  As for the rest of the ACC, it would not take long to develop strong rivalries. WVU fans would see to that.  Rivalries drive conference interest, and when a Clemson-WVU or an NC State – WVU game becomes a huge deal, you know you have achieved success.

Penn_StateIn a dream world, if Swofford could sell ice cubes to Eskimoes (err, Inuit).. he could successfully recruit Penn State. Penn State would come with their huge football program and its national credibility.  Anyone who has ever spent much time in eastern Pennsylvania or gone to Happy Valley for a game can tell you how big football is there.  Penn State steats 107,282 fans in Beaver Stadium…which ought to give you an idea of how big football is up there. And did you know that one in one hundred living alumni of any university holds a degree from Penn State? You could say that PSU would be a drain on hoops and have a good point, but that’s something that would cure itself, and quite quickly.  That’s because within the penumbra of Penn State is the  Philadelphia market.   There are plenty of great hoops players there, and given the exposure of the ACC, Penn State could build a competitive hoops program within five years.

Unfortunately, the ACC missed out on getting Penn State in the 80’s when they wanted to join the conference.  Now they are locked into the Big Ten, and it would almost be a miracle to get them to change affiliations.  But unless one tries, how can they know for sure.

Notre_DameNotre Dame will eventually have to join a conference in order to continue being a real force in college sports.  If it is academics, tradition, fanbase and reach that you want, Notre Dame fits the bill and then some.  Problem is, Notre Dame is far outside the geographic footprint of the ACC and since they already have a national TV contract all to themselves, coupled with a Big East affiliation, the Fighting Irish have no urgent desire to do anything.  They don’t have to share their revenue and as such don’t really need a major conference…yet.  Times are changing, however, and it may come to pass one day that the Irish will need a full ACC, Big Ten or Big East affiliation.  That will come sometime after NBC and Notre Dame part ways, and that’s a long time coming.

Then there’s the easy fit, but one that will raise the hackles on the back of most ACC fans’ necks.  ECU. Yes, ECU.  Our little brother institution down east.

East_CarolinaAs easy as it would be to make a case against ECU, what with its small TV market and relatively small alumni base, one could also say that ECU would be a better fit in the ACC than is Boston College.  Then again, being in a tiny TV market has yet to hurt Auburn or LSU.  For another thing, ECU considers itself a rival of the Big Four schools now.   I know, stop laughing.  Go and ask an ECU fan who they would want to beat the most in football in a given year, and they would almost certainly say NC State or UNC.   Ask them what program they would like to see their school build up into a competitive one, and they would say hoops.

A number of State fans would like to say that ECU’s academics are no match for NC State or UNC’s, but I have yet to see a football or basketball game where the fans cheer the SAT of their given teams.  Besides, ECU’s academics have steadily increased for a couple of decades now, to the point where their nursing and medical schools are well respected.  That joins other colleges at ECU that already had a decent amount of respect.  Yes, ECU would have to change their athlete admission standards.  They could no longer be the safety school of failed recruits from ACC schools.  But to be honest, the catcalls of “ECTC” are as outdated as UNC fans calling NC State “Moo U” — as if there were something bad about agriculture in the first place.

But to be honest, ECU is as much a pipe dream as Penn State for anyone in support of it happening. And there’s not really a lot of support amongst current ACC teams’ fans for ECU. It’s almost inconceivable that other members of the league would approve membership for the Pirates, not for the above reasons, but for the simple reason that they would fear additional NC-based influence on the conference.  As it is now, there is a feeling that the Big Four “owns” the ACC and adding a fifth team from North Carolina has little chance.  But that doesn’t mean that ECU wouldn’t be a better fit in the conference than BC, despite its weaknesses.  Truth it, BC is just that bad.

Bottom line is that it is time for the ACC to  vote BC off of the island, they’ve done enough damage to this conference already.  This is a college with a smaller fanbase than a lot of Texas high schools, after all.  Truth is, BC will forever be the albatross around John Swofford’s neck so long as they are a member of the ACC.  Swofford’s number one mission at the moment should be trying to find an effective replacement for a failed member that doesn’t fit, one that is perhaps the weakest and worst member of any BCS school.  If he doesn’t, he may allow the ACC to cease being considered a major conference.  After all, major conferences don’t have major bowls in Shreveport.  Leave that to the also-ran conferences.

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79 Responses to It’s Time The ACC Admitted Its Mistake – Boston College Shouldn’t Be An ACC Team

  1. DrJackRyan 10/09/2009 at 3:51 PM #

    “The fact is that NC State University is a member of the UNC system and its record of education and athletics speaks for itself.”

    “In 2002, North Carolina State University appointed a task force to report on undergraduate retention and graduation rates. The study revealed that while NCSU placed among the national average rates, it fell far behind its 15 peers in North Carolina. The results of the study found that the university was consistently losing more students than predicted. The ability to retain students graduating in 5 years has dropped approximately 10 percent since 1983, from 52.2 percent to 41.9 percent.”

    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-20537238_ITM

    North Carolina State U.: Policy hopes to raise N.C. State graduation rate. The America’s Intelligence Wire. | March 02, 2004.

    41.9%! That’s for all students, not athletes!

  2. TOBtime 10/09/2009 at 3:54 PM #

    EZU is going to even the playing field as soon as they get in a BCS conference? Really? Using what different strategy they don’t use now? No kid is going to Greenville to play football if he is good enough to make it at Penn ST, TN, Fl or any other football factory. For that matter MD, Clemson, SC or NC State would have more pull from the ACC as well as WVU or Pitt from the Big East. They still have to recruit their territory and for at least 3 states in any direction except east they will always be behind somebody in the waiting line.
    BC has held their own in athletics no doubt about it. I think everyone was surprised to see them make championship games in football and the pathetic crowd attendance that comes with it. However, not too many original ACC member fans were crazy about Jacksonville. Miami and Fl. St were not original members. Deal with the stigma of not traveling but don’t expect the rest of the ACC to suffer the loss of a game like the Gator Bowl quietly just so BC will be FORCED on bowls.
    Have your own bowl game like Boise St.

  3. zahadum 10/09/2009 at 3:56 PM #

    Youguysarefunny, geography is sometimes more than just simple distance. A classic example; Bristol, TN is closer to Canada than it is to Memphis, and Memphis is closer to the Gulf of Mexico than it is to Bristol. But I don’t think anyone would argue that Bristol and Memphis aren’t far more geographically connected to each other than they are to Canada and the Gulf.

  4. AdamBC 10/09/2009 at 4:01 PM #

    If anything was ‘our’ bowl game, it was San Francisco. A lot of west coast alums turned out when we played out there. Sad the ACC dropped the ball on negotiating that one.

  5. DrJackRyan 10/09/2009 at 4:04 PM #

    Do you actually like being in the ACC?

    Love it.

    Do you actually like the travel associated with being in this league?

    Sure, going to games in Clemson and FSU are fantastic game day experiences and lots of fun.

    Do you actually like the schools that you’re affiliated with?

    Currently, yes. We have far more in common with Duke, Wake, Miami, North Carolina and UVA than any other conference.

    Would you not prefer to play your geographical rivals?

    We don’t have any geographic rivals. We are a private school and want to be aligned with private schools like Duke, Wake and Miami. Rutgers is a terrible fan experience, as is UCONN and we have only played UCONN in the last few years, since they upgraded. And again, they are large state schools, which we are not. Our biggest from the old Big East days came with us: VATech and Miami. Who are these geographic rivals that you talk about?

    The one exception is Syracuse and we will soon be playing them every year.

    Would you not prefer to be affiliated with and play schools with a more similar student body and alumni group?

    Again, BC’s student body is more similar to Duke, Wake, Miami and UVA than it is to Rutgers, UCONN, and Pitt. Look at the academic ratings. Technically the student bodies we are most similar to are Georgetown and Villanova. But they don’t play football!

    To stress again BC’s student body is much “more similar” to UNC and Virginia than it is to West Virginia and Pitt!

  6. AdamBC 10/09/2009 at 4:19 PM #

    I’ll do it too…

    – Do you actually like being in the ACC?
    Yes, absolutely, the venues are better, the competition is better, the future of our athletics program is assured.

    – Do you actually like the travel associated with being in this league?
    It’s a wash. Instead of going to Miami, we’d go to USF. Instead of going to Clemson, we’d go to Louisville. Instead of Georgia Tech, we’d go to Cincinnati. It’s not like the Big East is primarily New England in any regard. If you throw in the BBall schools, while Providence and St Johns are pretty close, Chicago and Milwaukee are not short trips.

    The takeaway is that the places the games are played are more fun in the ACC than the Big East. I’d rather go to any of the 4 NC schools than to Piscataway or Morgantown.

    – Do you actually like the schools that you’re affiliated with?
    Absolutely. Wake and Duke are much more similar to us than Syracuse or West Virginia.

    – Would you not prefer to play your geographical rivals?
    We have the series scheduled against Syracuse. Penn State isn’t in the Big East. Holy Cross dropped to DI-AA in the 70’s. And UConn only started playing football the year before the switch. So there’s no rivalry there.

    – Would you not prefer to be affiliated with and play schools with a more similar student body and alumni group?
    My answer to this is the same as the affiliation question above.

    The only thing I’ve heard people miss about the Big East is playing the bball tourney in NYC. Otherwise, the ACC has the Big East ‘experience’ beat hands down.

  7. TOBtime 10/09/2009 at 4:39 PM #

    Good points AdamBC. If you want to beat the academic/student body similarity drum, go ahead. I think it’s tough to compare an engineering/science school to the UVA/unx types but that’s just me. And I was serious about the bowl game. Everyone says Boston is a great place to visit so why not? I’d personally like to go for the history and if I can watch the Pack play, well, so much the better.
    Now the weather in January could be a factor…

  8. wolfbuff 10/09/2009 at 4:46 PM #

    OK, hopefully, we all have that out of our systems. Lots of good points here. Yes, the expansion is not going as planned. And, no the Sun Bowl, or whatever we’re picking up, is not as good as the Gator. Yes, BC is out there, but so is Miami. I don’t see myself going to either place any time soon. So, bottom line, the ACC is who we are. The what-if game is for losers and daydreamers. Good Lord, if we were picking teams for a brand new ACC today, probably half of our members would not necessarily be considered positives. We’re family whether we like it or not. And we each bring something positive (and negative) to the table. The way we’re going to pull ourselves up as a conference is if each of us steps it up on the field or court of play. Until then, don’t be surprised if we lose the other good bowl game affiliations, as well as, the TV contract for our football championship game. For his part the Commish needs to stop worrying about hurting anyone’s feelings and do what’s right for the conference. And that means putting both the football and basketball championship games/tournaments in the geographic center of the conference. Every. Year. Make it where people can get to it, and people will come.

  9. DrJackRyan 10/09/2009 at 5:07 PM #

    “I think it’s tough to compare an engineering/science school to the UVA/unx types”

    It seems we have a mix of schools in the ACC

    -Three State “Flagship” schools: Maryland, UNC, Virginia. (Meaning the state university of that state, emphasis on Arts & Science)

    -Four Private Schools: BC, Miami, Wake, Duke

    -Three Technical Schools: Virginia Tech, NC State, Georgia Tech

    -Two Large State Non-Flagship Schools: Florida State, Clemson. (I think these are former teacher’s colleges for both, but I am not sure)

  10. ncsufan13 10/09/2009 at 5:17 PM #

    Most of those characterizations are right, but Clemson is very similar to NCSU and would definitely fall under the technical school category.

  11. TOBtime 10/09/2009 at 5:28 PM #

    Clemson is a definite engineering/tech school. Why would NCSU not be the same large state non-flagship category as Florida State? At least for the large part? We are the largest university in NC.

    There actually is a good mix in the ACC.

  12. BCClassOf09 10/09/2009 at 5:34 PM #

    Do you actually like being in the ACC? -Absolutely

    Do you actually like the travel associated with being in this league? -I had the opportunity to travel to at least one away game each year of college and loved it. I went to Wake Forest twice and had a great time. This year I’m planning on road tripping to Notre Dame and Maryland.

    Would you not prefer to play your geographical rivals?

    I would say geography is unimportant. We have already established much more heated and exciting rivalries in the ACC than we ever had in the BE. (Of course, I wasn’t actually at BC while in the BE, but I still followed them.)

    Would you not prefer to be affiliated with and play schools with a more similar student body and alumni group?

    I actually like the areas of the country that have ‘opened up’ for me now that I am an ACC alum. For exacmple, I would feel much more comfortable taking a job in North Carolina now that I have had reason to visit there. (I actually looked at the Research Triangle area before settling on my job in Boston.)

  13. eagle00 10/09/2009 at 5:41 PM #

    BC alum and fan here. If we can transfer some of the rage on this board to the stands a week from tomorrow, we’re in for some fun!

    Just a few thoughts…

    First, please don’t judge all of us BC folks by a couple overwrought posters on this board. On the whole I think you’ll find BC alums and fans a pretty agreeable lot, who are all thrilled to be competing with y’all in the ACC. In the past few weeks, we’ve been very moved by the reaction of our sister ACC schools (including yours) to Mark Herzlich’s situation. Just confirms what we’ve already known about the ACC.

    That said, it doesn’t take a genius to see why this article got several BC posters riled up. We like the ACC. A lot. I’d venture to guess that Alpha Wolf knew darn well this article would inspire this sort of reaction. So, while I don’t condone these over-the-top BC posts, I’m certainly not shocked by them. What do you expect with an article entitled, “It’s Time The ACC Admitted Its Mistake – Boston College Shouldn’t Be An ACC Team”

    Secondly, let’s call a moratorium on the academics debate. BC and NCSU are both excellent schools, as is the rest of the ACC. A commitment to academic excellence is one of the ties that binds this conference. My sister is a Wake grad. My first cousin is a Duke grad. I know scores of BC folks who have siblings/family/fiances/spouses who are connected to other ACC institutions. I myself would be quite happy to marry a NCSU girl, if y’all could suggest an available one. My point, these are fine schools that have more in common — in terms of mission, student pool, etc. — than many posters on this board are admitting.

    Thirdly, Rutgers?! You’re killing me! RU was the perennially bottom-dweller of the Big East back when the ACC merger took place. They were just awful, and y’all would have been up in arms if the ACC had courted them. Now they’ve strung together a couple half-way-decent seasons and suddenly you’re begging for ’em? I’m not having it.

    Fourthly, admit it, this is really all about Tom O’Brien; you’re mad at us for unloading him on you. (Sorry.. couldn’t resist the cheap shot!)

    Been checking this site out a bit. Very nice work with it, Alpha. (Minus this article, of course.) See y’all in Chestnut Hill next week.

  14. DrJackRyan 10/09/2009 at 6:03 PM #

    “Clemson is a definite engineering/tech school. Why would NCSU not be the same large state non-flagship category as Florida State? At least for the large part? We are the largest university in NC.”

    Does Florida State have a technical focus? I didn’t think they did. That’s really the only reason: I was just grouping together State “universities”, technical schools and private schools. I wasn’t sure were to put FSU and Clemson. Didn’t realize Clemson has a technical focus. Does FSU?

  15. Broccoman 10/09/2009 at 6:22 PM #

    I’d love to see conferences forced to play everyone in football, and cap memberships at 11. (so 10 conference games)

    That way it would be easy to get rid of BC.

    On-the-field and academically, they are pretty good, but businesswise they are hurting the conference.

    I can’t see any school wanting to join the ACC unless they wanted an easier road to a BCS bowl. Penn St. definitely doesn’t need that. W.Virginia doesn’t. ECU would get it’s foot in the door.

    I’d rather have a trip to Columbia then Boston, but I can’t see them leaving the SEC.

    Part of me thinks we’d be better off with just 11 schools. It works well enough for the Big 10.

    Wake- it’s obvious why they don’t travel well- not enough alumni. They’re not going to win that often bigtime in football- so that’s ok. UVA- I think they’d show up more if they actually won sometimes (they’re in worse shape then we are)

    BC is a unique drain because they’re good enough to get good bowls and win conferences, but it’s a death sentence financially if they do.
    If BC were lovable losers we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

  16. ncsufan13 10/09/2009 at 6:37 PM #

    “I wasn’t sure were to put FSU and Clemson. Didn’t realize Clemson has a technical focus. Does FSU?”

    Clemson is like NCSU’s evil twin in South Carolina. As for FSU, compared to UF they aren’t more research oriented as they only have 1/3 of the research budget. In addition to this, USF even has a larger student population and research budget than FSU. However FSU is a special case in the ACC seeing as the state of Florida is huge and has more than enough room for several “flagship” universities. Sorta like California has room for Cal and UCLA.

  17. TOBtime 10/09/2009 at 6:48 PM #

    Drjack, see above post from ncsufan13. FSU is a sea-grant as well as space-grant institution (like NCSU) but they also have the medical and law to go with it. Sort of unusual but their engineers aren’t half bad. I don’t think they are land-grant hence the lack of agriculture related degrees.
    In NC, we have a law school every 50 miles in any given direction with 4 medical schools to give the attorneys someone to pursue.

  18. LRM 10/09/2009 at 7:06 PM #

    “They would rather advertise BMWs and Volvos to the BC alumni than Popeye’s and Wendy’s to the NC State alumni.”

    At least get your insults accurate — we eat Bojangle’s in these parts.

  19. Alpha Wolf 10/09/2009 at 7:32 PM #

    LRM, that made me laugh. And with the wife taking care of her friend’s daughter tonight, you gave me a good idea for dinner. Tonight no speeches about cholesterol, fat content or sodium. Just good eats.

    And TOB beat me to it, DrJack: NC State, VT, and Clemson are all Land Grant institutions, Oddly Georgia Tech and Florida State are not, but the Universities of Florida and Georgia are. All were founded under the Morrill Land-Grant Colleges Acts.

    NCSU, Clemson, FSU, VT and UVA are Sea Grant schools. They are covered by the National Sea Grant College Program Act. It is administered by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

    NCSU, GT, VT and UVA are Space Grant colleges, which is administered by a group near and dear to my heart, NASA.

    You would be making a pretty big mistake if you judged pretty much any engineering school by its graduation rates. Any veteran of one can tell you that you can’t bullshit your way through one, and that you can either do the math or you cannot. Those that can’t find other things to do.

    Now that I have fairly insulted all of you BC alums and students, and you’ve done the same, perhaps we can find some common ground. The reality of it for me is that every BC alum I know personally is an okay fellow. I suspect if you knew any of us, you would find that NC State types are usually pretty easy going, save for where Carolina is concerned, and that’s because they are a brother institution within the same geographic area.

    I think that a number of posters have pointed out that the problem is not BC’s membership in the ACC, but instead the way our illustrious conference has handled bowls. Over the years, you guys will likely come to the same conclusion as have we about them, but I leave that to you to arrive at on your own.

  20. b 10/09/2009 at 8:40 PM #

    Feel free to insult my intelligence and choice of eateries. I choose not to be offended.

    The argument was never that BC wouldn’t have something wonderful to add to any conference they are affiliated with. It’s that from a purely regional sense, they didn’t fit the profile.

    True, BC are beating their way into the family as they should, their worth was never the concern for me. Rivalries take time to build, and since the move was primarily for football, existing rivalries would have had a quicker impact. Along with traveling fanbases to counter the already thin traveling fanbases in the conference. I made this point yesterday and intended no offense to BC or its fans.

    And I don’t blame BC fans and alumni, who are relatively small in number, for the Gator bowl fiasco. It was our conference leadership who created a rule to protect the BC football program (amongst others) from this built in challenge. To me the wiser course was to let the bowl do what it wanted from a scheduling standpoint and provide some leeway during challenging financial times. Maybe BC’s program would have to generate enough high level opportunites with their on field performance alone to compel the Gator to offer them. But that’s life for the small school, what was said, quality over quantity?

    Anyway, if BC wouldn’t have joined we wouldn’t have had the chance to lure TOB. And despite the fact some in BC were glad he was gone, for us he was the right fit at the right time.

    BTW….Any bowl worth a damn would have wanted to showcase Matt Ryan. Sometimes the talent on the field is worth more to a bowl than the fans in the stands.

  21. 61Packer 10/09/2009 at 9:29 PM #

    Everything changed when Florida State joined the ACC around 1991 or so. ACC football had been enjoyable up until then, but with FSU came a decade-long beatdown of ALL our members. FSU enhanced their own status, but at the expense of our other 8 league members. I’m actually enjoying the Bobby Bowden mess right now; the Seminoles deserve him and I hope they’re stuck with him as long as he lives.

    The new 9-team league necessitated the dreaded play-in game in the ACC Tournament, and that hurt us more than any other ACC member because we picked that time to usher in the modern era of Wolfpack basketball.

    The Big East expansion of Virginia Tech and Miami brought on revised ACC schedules that have slowly killed off rivalries and actually reduced the percentage of league members we now play. One of them is the team we host tomorrow at Carter-Finley. I don’t believe Duke has been here since Philip Rivers, and they may not be back until TOB has retired. Thank expansion for that.

    West Virginia is obviously the school that we should’ve brought in as our 12th member instead of BC, but we all know the expansion was about money, and how much money is there in West Virginia anyhow? Penn State, Syracuse and Rutgers aren’t likely to be interested if BC ever decides that they’ve had enough of having to get on a plane every time they play a league game. When and if that happens, don’t bet on the Mountaineers, even if they want to join. They’ll need to strike gold in those coal mines before that ever happens.

  22. DrJackRyan 10/09/2009 at 10:49 PM #

    “West Virginia is obviously the school that we should’ve brought in as our 12th member instead of BC, but we all know the expansion was about money, and how much money is there in West Virginia anyhow?”

    Surprised you wuffies keep blowing the WFU trumpet. Do you really think that Wake, Duke, UVA and UNC and Miami would have approved West Virginia over BC? The answer is never. And the reason is the same as I have been mentioning in my earlier posts: academics and demographics.

    Specifically… Miami insisted on BC as moving with them, the reason being that so many Miami students and alumni live in the Northeast. But the truth sis Duke, Wake, UVA would never want to be associated with a school with as poor academics and fan base as West Virginia.

    But let’s go back to the demographic reasons. There does seem to be a class division. The affluent ACC movers and shakers (alumni, etc.) seem to be much more supportive of BC in the ACC than the working-class ACC fans. There are a lot of reasons for that. One of them being, it is affluent fans who have the means to travel for away games. And no one in their right mind would chose to travel to Morgantown than Boston in September and October. And like much in life, it is the rich folks that call the shots. I have heard much complaints from folks about BC in the ACC…yet none of them come from folks who have actually been to Boston to see a game. Draw your own conclusions.

  23. breeze 10/10/2009 at 2:36 AM #

    I’m not remotely shocked by the negative responses concerning the notion that ECU would be a better fit than BC. I was born & raised in Greenville & I graduated from ECU so I am patently biased, but I feel that if given BCS status not only is it entirely plausible that ECU would imminently become a football juggernaut but a forgone conclusion. Just look at a school like Cincinnati. ECU has historically owned them & almost as soon as they were afforded that BCS tag they transformed into a perennial top 20 program with half the fan support that the Pirates have. I am in my last year of law school in New Orleans, right in the heart of LSU & SEC country. I talked some of my friends into coming home to watch the App St. game with me. These 3 individuals went to LSU, Texas & Alabama respectively & they were all impressed with the fan support & enthusiasm permeating throughout our program. All the sentiments on this board pertaining to the lack of a tv market are fundamentally unsound when taking into consideration that nearly every college town in the SEC isn’t exactly a booming metropolis. Additionally, most SEC schools aren’t exactly notorious for scholastic prestige either & as this article alludes to, ECU really has been making significant strides in enhancing its academic programs, standards & overall quality of education, piedmont stereotyping notwithstanding. If the ACC was really interested in augmenting football prowess & prompting more regional rivalries it would take a hard look at ECU because the ACC needs a school that is out of the mold of an SEC school (small college town, large school, where football is religion). An argument could be made that ECU already has a football program that is as good as any in the Carolinas. One would be hard pressed to name another non-AQ with the out of conference resume of the Pirates (just in the 3 proceeding seasons, wins over UVA, NC St, UNC, #23 Boise St, #15 & ACC & Orange Bowl champ VT, & #8 WV. ECU has also amassed as respectable a tradition as nearly any “mid major” out there (Bowl games against every major conference since just the 90’s: #21 NC St (win), Illinois (L), Stanford (W), TCU (L), Texas Tech (W), #10 Marshall (L), South Florida (L), #23 Boise St. (W) & Kentucky (L) & also 2 out of 3 against Miami & both times they were in the top 10 including their worst loss in the Orange Bowl 31-6. ECU is in a very similar situation to where VT was in the early 90’s (at that time ECU was actually leading the series with VT 4-3). Anyone who doesn’t recognize it doesn’t want to because they feel threatened by it. There is almost absolutely no chance of ECU getting into the ACC precisely because the schools in the state would never sign off on it because they know that ECU is a sleeping giant & those institutions are hoping that ECU isn’t grabbed up by the Big East because football recruiting would be that much more congested. However, if acc fans could discard their innate bias towards the “school down east” they would recognize that the strides ECU is making from an institutional & athletic standpoint (including an expansion on the stadium that will increase capacity to over 50,000 next season & to over 62’000 within 5 years) make ECU a valuable asset & more than a just a viable candidate. When people dismiss the idea they should at least have a rational basis for such a conclusion instead of allowing their insecurities & ill will to manifest itself in the form of snide remarks & illusory logic on the blogosphere because even if recruiting would become diluted it would be better than permitting the Big East to gain a foothold in the tobacco road recruiting wars if they decide to extend an invitation ECU’s way.

  24. duchesne 10/10/2009 at 7:46 AM #

    You cant blame BC fans for coming on and being insulting when the entire initial article is insulting. Esp when you are trying to justify taking a garbage school like Rutgers or ECU. Maybe the anger should be directed to the writer but its going to go to his school.

    Despite it being called the “BC rule” rememeber it actually came out with the Gator Bowl and Catlett not wanting to take Georgia Tech in the Gator after they lost the ACC Championship. The Gator wants Clemson, Vtech, FSU, NCSt, Miami and UNC(Maybe) they dont want Duke, Wake, BC, or Gtech. Catlett is a jerk and his bowl is going to suffer. Jacksonville cant sell out half the stadium for Jags games, they shouldnt have been hosting 2 ACC games in 1 month.

    As for ratings, BC has some of the best ratings in the conference, 2% of Boston is worth 6% of Charlotte. After FSU-Miami the highest ranked ACC game on ESPN was BC/Vtech (which was up against a Red Sox World Series game)

    I think another issue with Bowls is that most BC fans travel to a game if its a vacation place. BC had a great showing at the Champs and years back had a great showing in the Emerald. I’m not going to Boise, Charlotte (no offense but I cant work a 5 day trip around it) or Jacksonville for a game, I will go to Flordia or LA.

    Yes, that was a good showing in Orlando for the Champs Bowl. Despite the school’s giving away FREE tickets to the game it was noted that “BC, however, has failed to improve its reputation as a non-traveling school. Each program was allotted 12,000 tickets. Michigan State has sold between 10,000 and 11,000; BC expects to have between 5,000 and 6,000.” (Boston Herald, December 28, 2007)

    A bowl game in Orlando, Florida, that took place between Christmas and New Years? In perhaps the biggest tourist destination east of the Mississippi? One that has warmer weather than any other bowl besides the Orange Bowl, besides. What better situation could fans possibly want?

    The problem repeated itself the next year in Nashville, leading to this from from Atlanta:

    A quote from the director of the Chik-Fil-A (Peach Bowl) on why they did not want BC: “Our committee is leery of the Eagles and we’re not convinced their fans will support this team on a bowl trip to Atlanta. The Chick-fil-A Bowl has a long tradition of sold-out stadiums and an atmosphere that is as loud as any stadium in the country and we’re not sure a pro sports town like Boston can support their team at that level.” (BC Might Be Having Fun But The Bowls Ain’t Buying)

    Finally, you may note that the questions asked in the ‘Having Fun’ article are quite similar to those posited here. Go figure.

  25. TOBtime 10/10/2009 at 9:11 AM #

    breeze, when EZU becomes a giant killer like Boise St. and Greenville becomes as feared a place to play as the blue field then your arguments make more sense. RIght now they are one of the teams that “might” do something on any given Saturday. They lost to unx this year and State last year when neither team was very good. That’s not the consistency of a Boise St who has knocked of OR the last 2 years. Anything further than 3 years back doesn’t matter anyway. I agree with you they are at a crossroads but it seems they have hit a plateau that might require someone other that Skip to climb off of. No matter who coaches in Greenville the recruiting is always going to be extra tough in our area due to the number of decent football schools and being an ACC member won’t change that. Boise St. does not have that problem. But, go to the Big East if you like and see if all your credibility problems go away.
    You can chalk this up to “ill will” and “insecurity” if you like but I’ve watched them since Pat Dye was there and it’s just been a rollercoaster. Don’t get too hung up on “fuhcilities” either. Especially ones that aren’t completed yet. We found you still have to play the game.

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