Something Is Going On In The Big East…But What?

If you read between the lines, it looks like the Big East, which is still smarting from three of its members joining the ACC, is getting a little desperate when it comes to its position in the landscape of college football.  And the reality of college sports is that it is football that drives change, because the multi-billion dollar contract that exists for the NCAA Tournament gives schools some financial certainty, no matter which conference they affiliate themselves with.

Consider:

Lenn Robbins, New York Post:  Maryland and BC to the Big East?

With threats on the horizon — most glaringly, that the Big Ten, with its 11 members, will one day add a 12th — the Big East is focusing on how it can get stronger.

Two sources said the eight-team Big East would consider adding a ninth member by exploring whether there was interest on behalf of Maryland to jump from the ACC, and for Boston College to rejoin the league.

Both seem a little far-fetched on the surface, but Maryland always has played Big East schools, and the balance of power in the ACC is in the south. And Boston College is learning that life in the ACC, where it has no natural rivals, isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

I suppose that the BC – Virginia Tech rivalry that they had in the Big East no longer applies?  Perhaps not.  But BC’s real “natural” rival seems to Notre Dame anyway, considering the two schools’ Catholic roots.

As for Maryland leaving, that’s interesting, considering that the Terps are a founding member of the ACC, and despite their constant carping about how the league treats them as if they are “Alaska,” they seem to be 100% solid as far as their current conference membership goes.

I think that Lenn Robbins is just talking of his hindquarters, but the suggestion and his intimation of there being some reality to it is interesting.  Keep in mind that there was only whispers of ACC expansion in the spring before it happened.

Alone and by itself, I would write off Robbins’ article as space-filling rumor mongering, but now comes this:

Desmond Conner, Hartford Courant: Think This Would Work? (A 20-team ACC/Big East merger.)

Four years ago, on the heels of the ACC’s raid of the Big East and its additions, all 16 schools agreed to a five-year contract to stay together. That’s become public information. It wasn’t supposed to public information.  The Big East won’t confirm whether it’s true or not but it is true.

After the 2009-10 academic year, if they wanted, the Big East’s football-playing schools could split with, I believe, no penalty.

The Big East football conference coaches, for the most part, are in favor of expanding for a team that adds value, an athletic, academic and financially successful future. But they, along with league officials say that “team” isn’t out there.
So does that mean the Big East sits and does nothing and stays the way it is?

It shouldn’t. It can’t. Here’s an idea for the presidents of the eight Big East schools, ACC commissioner John Swofford and his schools’ presidents:

Why don’t the eight-football playing schools get up and go link with the ACC 12 to form a 20-team all-sports league, a super-conference, you know, the wave of the future, and just control the entire East Coast’s TV markets, rule the world in basketball with crazy competition and paydays in football and basketball?

Hmmm.  Unwieldy, and between John Swofford and Mike Tranghese, two men who supposedly loathe one another, who would give up the reins to let the other run this new super-conference?   I can’t say that either would budge.  Yes, I know that Tranghese stepped down and John Marinatto runs the patchwork conference, but I would think Tranghese might get over his fear of flying long enough to get the idea of a “Big ACC” off the ground, given a chance.  In the Big East, he is gone but certainly not forgotten.

Perhaps the first event of a theoretical “Big ACC” should be a modern version of the Aaron Burr – Alexander Hamilton Duel?  Despite its new affiliation with the SEC, even ESPN would cover that.  After all, they cover other “sports” like poker.  The ratings payoff would be enormous, of course, and if there is one thing that Tranghese and Swofford can agree on, it’s that they value money over anything else, especially silly stuff like tradition.

And before you write all of this off as “much ado about nothing” then consider this

Chris Elsberry, Connecticiut Post: Big East Coaches Plead For Ninth League Member

While the prevailing winds in Newport were all about the potential new bowl game tie-ins, the underlying current continued to be about the addition of a ninth team to the conference. The current eight-team configuration has been nothing but trouble, especially scheduling-wise, and for the moment, the only thing the league’s coaches can do is complain about it.And complain they did.

“I’ve got neighboring states that I have called. They’ve talked with us. We’re just bus rides away, four- or five-hour bus rides and we can’t get them to play,” Stewart said at last week’s Big East football media day. “We’re flying to Auburn, we’re going to fly to LSU. It’s very difficult when you’re four hours from a neighboring state and you can’t hook up. I don’t get it.”

“I would love it (a ninth team),” Pitt coach Dave Wannstedt said. “I would preface that by saying we don’t want to do anything that could lessen the league or take a step backwards. But from a scheduling standpoint, it’s a challenge right now. You get a ninth team in there and now we’re just scheduling four games. Scheduling five games every year is “¦ I wouldn’t want to be an athletic director in this conference right now.”

If that article doesn’t get folks down in Greenville, NC, all itchy with excitement, nothing will.  ECU, a school that has had major ambitions for decades, wants to be in a BCS conference so bad they can taste it.  But going back to the original Robbins/NYP article, the Pirate faithful may want to consider this:

The days of considering a Memphis or a Central Florida or an association with Army and Navy are over. The Big East, which went 4-2 in bowl games last season and has won three of its last four BCS games, is thinking of itself as operating from a position of strength.

Memphis is in a much larger television market than ECU and it has many more living alumni and a larger booster club base to boot, with FedEx founder, CEO and billionaire Fred Smith being the most prominent of them.  Not even Terry Holland could overcome those weaknesses, and the Pirates can just simmer down and get used to the idea of being a middle-sized fish in an over-sized shallow pond.  That’s their role in C-USA, and that’s almost certainly where they will stay…no matter how hard they try to convince you otherwise.

As far as the Big East goes, it may well be worth putting one’s ear to the ground and keeping up with developments as they slowly happen concerning that conference.  There are now too many whispers in the mainstream press going to print saying that something is up for nothing to be going on.  With a television contract extension on the horizon, and one that will happen in a weak marketplace to boot, what the Big East does will certainly have a major effect on the ACC.

General

53 Responses to Something Is Going On In The Big East…But What?

  1. 08alum 08/11/2009 at 4:00 PM #

    “It is kind of like NC State basketball (UNC-Duke).”

    Except that PSU never was a big rival with OSU, Mich. UNC-Duke was nothing until the second half of the 70s.

  2. JasonP 08/11/2009 at 4:02 PM #

    Money and politics rule this game. There’s just no way this is going to happen b/c the BigE loses at least 1 squad to the ACC if they pluck away 2. There’s too much money and influence on the side of the ACC to be sniped out of 2 schools with no one else lined up.

    That said, it would be fun to watch all the realignment. I’d trade BC for PSU or WVU any day of the week. Even Syracuse would be more attractive than BC, as would UConn.

  3. packplantpath 08/11/2009 at 4:22 PM #

    Something nobody mentioned (probably for a reason).

    NC State could leave the ACC……… Is it any less likely than Maryland, which I see as highly unlikely?

  4. rtpack24 08/11/2009 at 4:23 PM #

    I think it would make sense for BC to go back to BE. If they take Maryland also, then do not add anyone. Play everybody in football and have a nice 10 team b-ball tourney. The football play-off game sucks. Hard to fill a stadium and in the event we actually had a team in the running for a national champ game the play-off game would probably ruin the season. If we have to add a team, then bring back South Carolina. It makes sense location wise and rivalry wise.

  5. Oldwolf 08/11/2009 at 4:31 PM #

    If the ACC had to pick up another team for some reason or another, one team that would be a good fit, would be Krntucky, but with the new modey deal in the SEC, not very likely.

    I would love to have Penn State in the ACC!

  6. VaWolf82 08/11/2009 at 4:57 PM #

    The bottom line usually comes down to the bottom line.

    BC, UM, and VT left the BE for one reason. What has changed that would lead anyone to want to leave the ACC for the BE?

    Why would Penn State want to leave the Big10/11?

  7. RedandWhite97 08/11/2009 at 5:28 PM #

    Here is a recent article about PSU and the ACC (June). Sorry if already mentioned.

    http://ncaapalace.com/the-news/118

  8. BJD95 08/11/2009 at 5:36 PM #

    Agree with VA – there is zero bottom line reason for anyone to jump from the ACC or Big Ten right now, or in the foreseeable future.

    I would rather disband the ACC than add East Carolina. Makes absolutely no sense for anybody but the Pie-rats. It would be especially stupid for all 4 NC programs. What would the ACC possibly gain from that? Other than added insurance costs and the need for every member institution to have on-site SWAT teams in the fall.

    If it doesn’t add significant revenue, then it’s lunacy.

  9. Wulfpack 08/11/2009 at 7:45 PM #

    ECU in the ACC? Seriously? Do they even have a basketball team?

    I’m not a huge fan of BC in our league but BC is for darn sure an upgrade over ECU in many areas.

  10. LKNpackfan 08/11/2009 at 8:50 PM #

    IMO its doubtful that they shoot for 12 since they’d have to move 5-6 schools at once, (adding 3 schools with decent football & bad bball, while dropping at least 2 decent bball-only schools). I just don’t think sacrificing basketball is an option for a prominent basketball conference (although look at what the ACC did…)

    Anyway, as the post says, the BE needs at least 9 football schools as leverage for a decent TV package. So logically thinking, it picks up either Temple from the A10 or Memphis from C-USA, and drops a bball-only school (like DePaul).

  11. highstick 08/11/2009 at 8:50 PM #

    Amen on disbanding the ACC if ECTC joins! I’ll desert the ACC forever! But, heck do we even “have a basketball team”?? Maybe we should leave? Joking, of course.

    You guys are missing the fact that the Tarholes are upgrading their football program. Maybe they should go and strengthen their football program while bringing a national presence in bosketball!

    This was Swofford’s folly, wasn’t it? I know it was “money driven”, but I’m not sure about the end result. It would be a travesty if Maryland left. It was when SC left, but that was really a fouled up(not a fowlered up) situation. They are not coming back and there is no reason for them to even consider it. If Frank Howard hadn’t chickened out at the last moment, Clemson wouldn’t be in the ACC either. Water over the dam and there’s no sense in bringing it back up.

  12. 61Packer 08/11/2009 at 9:25 PM #

    ECU does have a basketball team. Ask Sidney Lowe.

    As far as ACC membership goes, ECU has about as much chance of being admitted to the ACC as Barton College does. There isn’t enough money in all of Eastern North Carolina, let alone in the Greenville area, to buy that school’s way into the money-hungry ACC. As for WVU, I don’t think there’s enough money in their entire state to pay today’s price of ACC admission.

    BC got in the ACC because of Miami and Virginia Tech. They were in the right place at the right time. Now, with Big East expansion looming, BC may not be in the right place in the ACC. When their fan base has had it with the travel involved, they might bolt back to the BEC. I enjoyed my trip to Boston recently to take in a Wolfpack game there, but that kind of a league road trip for us is only once a year- every road game for BC is on a plane, not a bus.

    I just don’t see Penn State wanting to be in the ACC. They’re already an outpost team in an 11-team league and if they joined the ACC, they’d be even more of an outpost team than they are now. Leaving the Big Ten for the ACC would not be a step up for the Lions’ football program competition-wise, and ACC membership certainly wouldn’t be a financial gain for PSU, given their current league’s Rose Bowl tie-in. ESPN’s recent acquisition to tv rights for this game indicates that there’s even more money coming for the Big Ten and Pac 10. Why jump?

    I always liked the ACC with 8 teams. You got to play everyone in football and twice in basketball. Now, the 12-team mega-leagues are upon us, with the administrators claiming this is better for our league. But what it’s doing, at least in the ACC, is killing our golden goose, basketball. Why end the annual rivalries that made this league great, mainly State-Duke and UNC-Wake Forest? The ACC can admit Penn State, Syracuse, Kentucky, Rutgers, Memphis, whoever, but all I want is to see Duke and UVA back on our schedule EVERY season in football, and twice in basketball. Why not?

  13. TheCOWDOG 08/11/2009 at 9:49 PM #

    BTW Alpha, good pull to generate some what ifs with contributors inputting some really good stuff away from the general sky is falling 1 week into camp.

  14. LRM 08/11/2009 at 10:54 PM #

    If Maryland leaves at least that’s one less guaranteed L in football every year.

    Well, bye.

  15. Wufpacker 08/12/2009 at 12:12 AM #

    A few random thoughts regarding this topic…

    Aside from reducing time and costs associated with traveling to and from road games, is there really any benefit for BC to jump ship and return to the BE? Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t be sad to see them go, but from a purely financial standpoint I can’t see them leaving right now. Regarding travel, there are no East-West trips so time zones do not come into play, and with the ease of using air travel in this day and age, I suspect the time issue is probably moot as well, ie a trip to closer schools (BE schools) might be a 3-4 hour bus ride, but even Miami is less than a 4 hour plane ride. For that reason, the deciding factor is probably cost. Does the increased payout from the ACC more than cover their increased travel costs and leave enough left over to make it worth their while? Since I am ignorant of the exact dollar amounts of the payouts of both the ACC and the BE, not to mention ignorant of BC’s increased travel costs, I can’t say. But I do know that money was the driving factor for them leaving the BE for the ACC to begin with. What has changed since then, if anything?

    I cannot see Maryland leaving the ACC for the BE. They are a founding member, they have long standing rivalries with a lot of ACC schools, and they are getting a better financial deal in the ACC. I think it would take a lot more incentive to move Maryland in that direction and at this point the BE doesn’t have it.

    The Big East should consider splitting itself into two different conferences. If the BE powers that be want to run both that would be fine probably. In fact it might make things a lot easier (more about that later). If I were them, what I would propose as the best move for the BE to make is split the basketball only members into their own conference. Not just a different division, but a whole new conference (Big East Lite?). There is no need for basketball only schools to be in a 12 team conference (number needed for football championship game). The other 8 schools (current full members of BE) then form their own conference and either immediately or down the road add four more full members. This gets them to the 12 they need to split into divisions and have a football championship game.

    Now, the same folks could run both conferences, or more likely different folks that both have close ties to the current BE. But keeping it “close” allows for simplified scheduling between the two. Then, even though they are not technically in the same conference anymore, long time basketball rivalries (like Syracuse/Georgetown, Pitt/Villanova , UConn/Providence, etc, etc) could be preserved with two bball games each season, home and away. I think this offers all current BE members, both full and basketball only, the best of both worlds. They also might be able to negotiate TV contracts for both together so that all members still benefit from association with one another. Besides, having basketball only schools lumped in with football/basketball schools just mucks things up.

    Can anyone tell me why the NCAA has mandated that a conference must have 12 members in order to have a football championship game? I know that they have but I never did know why. And without knowing perhaps “mandated” might be too strong a word…perhaps strongly encouraged is better. Again I just don’t know. But it does make me wonder why they care how many teams a conference has or how they select the two which will face off in a championship game. What would be the big deal if, say BC and MD did bolt for the BE, the ACC then realigned the 10 teams left (one would have to come over to the Atlantic from the Coastal) into two 5 team divisions. Same basic premise, one less team per division, each team would therefore play one additional team from the opposite division each year to make up the lost in-division game, and you could schedule all conference opponents (9 conference games) if that was wanted. But you still have the divisions, the winners of which still face off in the ACC Championship game. As a plus, with 10 teams it is manageable for each team to play the full round robin home and away in basketball, which I think is a big plus for a lot fans. But either way, why should the NCAA care?

    All that being said, I think if BC leaves and it becomes necessary, the ACC should do their best to get WVU to jump ship and come on over. They have a traditionally strong football program, they are up and coming in basketball, and I think they fit nicely, not being on the coast notwithstanding. Failing that, I think South Florida is the next best choice. I don’t believe Pitt, PSU, KY, UGa, or SC would entertain the thought. I don’t think the ACC should even consider ECU, UCF, or any of the others mentioned.

  16. MatSci94 08/12/2009 at 12:20 AM #

    “Can anyone tell me why the NCAA has mandated…”

    No. I’m not sure they have had much a coherent reason for any number of arbitrary rules/rulings they have.

    The NCAA is a very strange organization from a political standpoint. IIRC it is run by university presidents. There is a fair amount of pushback as to how the split of student-athlete goes. They have been against everything that adds games, makes seasons longer, etc…unless there is enough money in it.

  17. blpack 08/12/2009 at 7:14 AM #

    If BC goes, SCarolina would be the best fit. However too many people who remember 1972 or whatever the year was, are still alive and bitter towards the cocks. WVU would be good; wouldn’t help the BE, but who cares. EC? No. Already have 4 NC schools in the league. No tv market expansion either. PSU would be fine. Major school, used to being the odd team out, kind of fits in the Big 10- kind of fits in the BE- kind of fits in the ACC. Go get UK from the SEC. Another good choice. Doesn’t help football though.

  18. GAWolf 08/12/2009 at 9:04 AM #

    Like everything else in this world, the NCAA is strictly motivated by the almighty dollar. It’s CERTAINLY not the best interest of the student athlete.

  19. bradleyb123 08/12/2009 at 11:15 AM #

    There have been some posts about people holding grudges against SC for leaving the ACC way back when. Seriously, does anyone really think that would come into play if and when we needed to add another team to the ACC? The people running the show at SC back when they left have probably long since retired. It’s kinda silly to hold a grudge against “a school”. It’s the people running things that decided to leave. And if they’re no longer with the school, why hold a grudge?

    And like everyone has said, the bottom line is the bottom line. If it makes financial sense to add SC back to the ACC, and they want to come, and we need another team, does anyone really think a silly grudge on the part of some fans would prevent that?

  20. MP 08/12/2009 at 12:39 PM #

    It’s funny, my memory doesn’t extend to the USC/ACC days, but I still have a grudge against them. Guess that’s how it is growing up in ACC country steeped in conference heritage and tradition, some of us are so proud of the conference that we take it personally that anyone would ever leave (particularly a founding member). With that said, it is true that grudges should be forgotten if it is the best decision.

    USC is the best geographical fit for the conference, but I still would prefer the conference have a UMD neighbor. Maybe we could add the Spiders.

  21. bradleyb123 08/12/2009 at 12:52 PM #

    MP, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Grudges are normally something you hold against one or more people, not an institution. I would venture a guess that probably no one in the entire SC administration was around when they seceded from the ACC. Maybe a few remain here and there. But it’s been so long. If I’m right, who should we hold a grudge against?

    Personally, I’d like to see SC return to the ACC (especially if we could kick out BC). With Spurrier coaching, it could help give more credibility to the ACC in football.

  22. Cosmo96 08/12/2009 at 2:23 PM #

    “USC is the best geographical fit for the conference, but I still would prefer the conference have a UMD neighbor. Maybe we could add the Spiders.”

    The best fit in this regard, from strictly a geographical and academic perspective, would be Navy. I know that in the real world, the ability to compete has to come into play, but I’m just speaking theoretically.

    And grudges aside, why would South Carolina leave the SEC to re-join the ACC, especially considering the mega TV deal they just got for football? Don’t get me wrong, I think they’d be a great fit. It just doesn’t make sense for them financially, or prestige-wise.

  23. JimValvano 08/12/2009 at 5:14 PM #

    A comment not getting enough credit on here…that I happen to agree with…is…that it would be nice to go back to 8 teams again.

    Then all the teams would fit neatly on the ACC Tournament mini basketballs again.

    On a more serious note. I really miss the good ole days of playing everyone twice in basketball and playing everyone once in football. On a financial note…I bet the schools made more money that way. Now we just fill our schedule with William and Mary.

  24. Wufpacker 08/12/2009 at 7:23 PM #

    This is a bit off topic but I’m not sure where else it fits, and since it was something that occurred to me while reading this thread I guess thats reason enough to put it here.

    Basically, I’m curious to know if there is currently any rule in effect that would prohibit an ACC school from scheduling another conference member as an OOC game. For instance, this year we do not play UVa, GT or Miami in conference. Is there anything (not including basic scheduling conflict/availability) that would have kept us from scheduling one of these teams as an OOC game?

    Obviously it could not count in the conference record or else it would screw up the overall conference standings since other teams would still only have 8 conference games. Also, I realize that many (though not all) coaches/programs would not want to do this as their perspective is that the conference schedule is already brutal enough and that non-conference opponents should be somewhat of a break from the “pressure” of conference games.

    Basically, I’m not asking if its a good idea or a bad idea to do this, but rather if it could be done as ACC bylaws now stand.

    The main reason this even occurred to me was because ever since the ACC went to the divisional alignment and the unbalanced conference schedules, a lot of NCSU fans have voiced displeasure at the fact that we no longer play Duke every year. So specifically, I was curious to know if there are any ACC bylaws that would prohibit us from scheduling Duke as an OOC game in the years that we do not already have them on the conference slate.

    If not I would love to see this at least get some consideration. Playing Duke every year again would be a great thing, plus they would be a guaranteed I-A opponent for us in those years. And in the years that Duke is on our conference schedule, like this year, I’d love to see UVa, GT or VT added (depending upon who has cycled off of our conference schedule).

    Miami would be fine too, I suppose, but since they haven’t been in the league as long I doubt a lot of fans miss that game when its missing. VT falls into the same boat regarding being a recent ACC addition, but they are more of a natural (geographic) rival and we do have some significant history with them previously with 46 total meetings (more than we have with some longer standing ACC members) , whereas we’ve only faced Miami 12 times. Also, I think most NCSU fans enjoy the games with VT.

    A problem which could arise is how it would be scheduled, though I suspect it could be worked out. But if you want to play a team every year there might be times when you would play the same team at home (or on the road) two years in a row. For example we played Duke in Durham in ’03, then again in ’08, and didn’t face them between ’03 and ’08. In the years between if we had alternated home and away with them then we would have played them in Durham twice in a row in either ’03 and ’04, or ’07 and ’08. But again, I’m sure it could be worked out.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Boston College – The Unwanted Runt of the ACC at 850 & 620 THE BLOG - 08/12/2009

    […] into actual print in the last two weeks. Alpha Wolf over at StateFansNation beat me to the punch on a round up of speculative articles, so we’ll focus on how this got started and why it doesn’t make much sense for Boston […]

Leave a Reply