Wiederer: ‘State Doesn’t Need Wall’

Dan Wiederer of the Fayetteville Observer has an intriguing must-read column regarding the latest GlaxoSmithKline Holiday Invitational. Even if you are not interested in prep sports or college recruiting, take the time to read Dan’s impressions of incoming State and UNC prospects.   Regarding Lorenzo Brown and John Wall:

“Sure, it’d be nice to snag the Class of 2009’s crown jewel. But the Wolfpack already has its game-changing point guard on the way in Lorenzo Brown, a senior at Centennial High School in Georgia.

“I never have to worry about Lorenzo, but I challenge him,” said Centennial coach Allen Whiteheart. “I’ve coached him in countless big games and he has always brought his A-game every time a big game comes. It started from the very beginning. He had the first triple-double in our school’s history as a freshman. He’s just a big-game player and a phenomenal teammate.”

That’s an interesting point of view.  One alternative take might be for Wall to have his year in a Wolfpack uniform with Brown as his understudy, which leaves one to wonder where Farnold Degand, the incumbent starter might fit in.  Or whether there could be another chemistry problem on the horizon.

A bonus impression Wiederer gives is his take on John Wall’s current team-mate, C.J. Leslie:

Forget J.J. Hickson. C.J. Leslie may wind up being the most dynamic post recruit of the Sidney Lowe era.

Granted that Hickson was only in a Wolfpack uniform for one season, but that’s a pretty lofty comparison.  Considering that this may be Brandon Costner’s final year, a ready-to-go Leslie might be a must, not a luxury.

09-10 Basketball Basketball Recruiting General

101 Responses to Wiederer: ‘State Doesn’t Need Wall’

  1. BJD95 01/06/2009 at 3:32 PM #

    Yes, Montgomery was also legitimately interested. But Golden State also knew that, and I believe they would have won that particular game of chicken.

  2. PAJ 01/06/2009 at 3:33 PM #

    Brown and Wood with Degand, Mays, and Ferguson in whatever combination is more than enough back court to make NCST better. If Wall comes I’m not sure it doesn’t overcrowd the back court. What do you with Degand as a senior if Wall is here too for one year?

    More urgently we need another big to go w/ Howell for at least one year. If you think about it, we’re perfectly positioned with Howell arriving in ’09 and Leslie arriving in ’10 to take a one-and-done big man for ’09 without upsetting the balance. That’s one reason I think we are in it to land either Favors or Cousins.

    After that we need a stud wing player to round out the roster. Maybe the Mabry kid in Rocky Mount will be the final piece. Who knows?

  3. Gene 01/06/2009 at 3:37 PM #

    “John Beilein is not an up-and-comer. We could have had him rather easily. I’m not interested in anyone’s opinions on his schemes. ”

    I think the fans, especially the people with the money to buy him out of his WVU contract, didn’t go for him because of the system he ran and its relliance on shooting lots of three’s.

    “Mike Montgomery is not an up-and-comer. Had Fowler been willing to wait until his contract situation with the Warriors was resolved, he would have come here. ”

    We’d have had to wait till the end of April for him to be fired and I don’t know how readily he would’ve jumped at a college offer.

    He didn’t coach for two years after being canned from the Warriors.

  4. McPete 01/06/2009 at 3:40 PM #

    i agree with primacyone. TOB is (rightly) given a pass for inheriting what Noah himself called ‘a warm bucket of spit’, but Lowe doesn’t when he not only inherited a bad roster but has zero college coaching experience. It’s not fair to Lowe, he didn’t hire himself even though he was underqualified.

  5. Wolf74 01/06/2009 at 3:49 PM #

    “Why does TOB get a never ending leash and Sid is raked over the coals for losing 3 games by 11 Points with marginal talent.”

    Probably because TOB has college experience as both an assistant coach and a head coach and he has proven that he can field winning teams at the ACC level.

    And yes, I went to the bowl game and was disturbed when TOB put Beck in for his second series and very upset when he put him back in for that third series. So were the people I was with and the people we talked to after the game. But still, he has been successful at the college level and took BC to several bowls (I believe 8 straight) and has taken NCSU to 1. Going to a mid tier bowl and winning it in football is probably similar to making the Sweet 16 in basketball. When Coach Lowe demonstrates he can be competitive on a regular basis, he too will be given some slack. Winning this season’s recruiting jackpot would be a big plus!

  6. Noah 01/06/2009 at 3:51 PM #

    And as I’ve said many times before, Tom O’Brien has a long and distinguished career as a college assistant and college head coach.

    Sidney Lowe has a long career as an assistant in the NBA. He’s also got a pretty horrid record as a head coach at both the collegiate and NBA level.

    Apples. Oranges.

  7. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/06/2009 at 3:55 PM #

    State basketball will continue to suffer until we have a tough team willing to fight to win, push the rules of the game to the edge and not be afraid to take it physically to the Duke’s and UNC’s of the world.

    The team is also in desperate need of a leader. I see no one pulling the team to huddle before free-throws, no one slapping backs or getting in other players face. Many of State’s players still play with a Sendekian robot-like manner with a complete lack of emotion.

  8. primacyone 01/06/2009 at 3:56 PM #

    Apples. Oranges. History.

    Present. Apples. Apples.

    Except Lowe technically has the better statistical record of perfomance.

  9. Noah 01/06/2009 at 4:19 PM #

    Except Lowe technically has the better statistical record of perfomance.

    That tells me everything I need to know.

  10. wufpup76 01/06/2009 at 4:21 PM #

    Just figured I would check in and see how the coaching debate was going today … looking pretty good!

    I don’t mean to offend, I do enjoy the discussion as much as anyone else … but every basketball related thread is turning into this

    We are fortunate to have some bright, well-reasoned commenters here that provide many relevant points of view … but all this discussion will not change anything for the 2009 squad … It is what it is

    Don’t get me wrong, the discussion over AD’s and coaches is very relevant and should be brought up often – particularly during a slow week like this when there’s not much else to talk about concerning NC State events … But look what we’ve done to this poor little inane recruiting thread …

    We tend to stray from the here-and-now very quickly and head on into theoretical abstracts (I’m as guilty as anyone)

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that it would be cool if we could break down / analyze what’s currently happening more often than we delve into another debate in hypotheticals (I know a recruiting thread deals in hypotheticals, but this is no longer a recruiting thread) … We pretty much know where everyone stands (strongly this way vs. moderate vs. strongly that way)

    Then again, I am as guilty as anyone and am in fact an a**hole who could heed his own advice about moving on and not trying to control the way people comment if he doesn’t like it 🙁

  11. TOBtime 01/06/2009 at 4:23 PM #

    TOB, though with losing records the last 2 years, started off badly and finished strong. Yes, we were blasted by Maryland to end the season last year but IMPROVED to beat Miami this year and get bowl qualified. The letdown from last year did not re-appear this year and the program went up one more notch to a bowl game.
    Sid had a team in his first year that played LIGHTS OUT in the ACC tourney and had the whole country scared we would get in the NCAA tourney. However, last year was a disaster and some of the same symptoms appear this year. Only time will tell if last year was a fluke or whether Sid can again pull a TOB, improve through the playing season and finish strong at the end. Good coaching, with or without talent, will show itself in time.

    Does Sid have enough time and will he become the coach all of us want him to be?

  12. wufpup76 01/06/2009 at 4:25 PM #

    Just saw where Coach Yow will miss the rest of the season

    God Bless … Feel better soon

  13. primacyone 01/06/2009 at 4:28 PM #

    “”Except Lowe technically has the better statistical record of perfomance.”

    That tells me everything I need to know.”

    Does he not? It’s close, but I believe he does. I will look at all the numbers when I get the time, but the big numbers in my memory suggest that he does.

  14. Noah 01/06/2009 at 4:39 PM #

    Does Sid have enough time and will he become the coach all of us want him to be?

    He’s not going anywhere unless something heavy falls on him. NC State has only fired one coach in the history of the basketball program.

    Les Robinson would still be coaching here had he not had the self-respect to resign.

  15. primacyone 01/06/2009 at 4:43 PM #

    TOB, though with losing records the last 2 years, started off badly and finished strong. Yes, we were blasted by Maryland to end the season last year but IMPROVED this year to beat Miami . . “

    Are you kidding me? Last year’s football finish was complete disaster in every way shape in form. We lost the last two games badly and ugly and the players had competely given up and were lost. This year didn’t start much better.

    Our basketball team has IMPROVED so far this year compared to last year. Maybe they will IMPROVE some more before the season is out.

  16. primacyone 01/06/2009 at 4:49 PM #

    All I know is this:

    If Sidney Lowe can ever get his hands on a Corch and Monroe, a Singletary and Reynolds, a Lowe and Whitenburg . . .

    Look the F out.

    This is what I beleive. I hope to see it happen. I think it will. I am willing to wait a coule more years to find out.

  17. TOBtime 01/06/2009 at 5:02 PM #

    Sorry, I forgot about the Wake game. The point is we were 1-5 with the win being Wofford when we go on a 5 game tear. There WAS improvement last year and no, I’m not kidding anyone. The same scenario this year without the let-down at seasons end. First you lose by a little, then you win by a little. No one cares how you start a season it’s how you finish. Ask the San Diego Chargers. Outsiders may not see the difference in our football program this year but WE do.

    Our basketball team HAS improved, no arguments there. I firmly believe our guards will get better this year and our overall team play will improve. However, the lack of leadership and defensive intensity that killed us last year is still showing itself to some degree. Sid has shown he can get a team hot at the right time. Now, he needs to do it with some consistency and avoid the let downs.

  18. PoppaJohn 01/06/2009 at 5:05 PM #

    Very exciting stuff about our recruiting stuff, reason for hope.

    I also thought Coach Donovan’s post game comments were encouraging. He seemed honestly impressed with our team.

    It seems lately that between nasty losses and foulups, with nothing else to discuss, we turn on ourselves. Not just quality discussion, but nasty stuff.

    Let’s stand arm and arm as Wolfpackers and hope Sid tightens up a bit in the area of coaching, and the guards rise to the point of adding more good than bad, and maybe we’ll have a more enjoyable year than last year.

    And lastly, can we have a moratorium on Fowler bashing? That horse was beaten to death months ago. I don’t believe there is a decision point in the near future that we can influence that might make the administration dump him, despite the need. He’s with us for a while, unless we win the lottery and someone “steals” him.

  19. choppack1 01/06/2009 at 5:11 PM #

    primacy – Obviously, you aren’t including Lowe’s NBA’s record or conference records – where TOB is 7-9 (and his predecessor was 5-11 the last 2 years) vs. Lowe’s record of 9-23 (while his predecessor was 17-15).

    But aside from the conference record here are some reasons why some of us are more confident in TOB than in Lowe:
    1) He has extensive experience as a college coach.
    2) He has extensive successful experience as a college coach.
    3) He has extensive successful experience as a HC and an assistant.
    4) He has experience in the ACC as a HC and an assistant coach.
    5) In football, it usually takes several years to “build” your program.
    6) It’s obvious Tom has a plan and he’s executing it. He’s sacrificing short term gain – by red-shirting Wilson last year, Glennon this year – and not playing Wilson or Glennon in the USF game or second half of the Rutgers game – for his long term results.

    I don’t share the same harshness of opinion that Noah does on Lowe. However, I’m very concerned that we’ve hired the basketball equivalent of Bunting. I think Noah brings up a good point on how different problems keep on popping up each year like Wack-A-Moles.

    I don’t agree that the first year showed poor scholarship allocation – you can’t get many players when you are named HC in May. However, I think we’ve had a couple of questionable scholarships allocated.

    We’re lucky though – in basketball – you don’t need a lot of great players. If you throw in a couple good ones, maybe one special ones – you can have a pretty good team.

    If Sidney demonstrates he is a special recruiter – which I think is very much a responsbility – his learning curve can be pretty tolerable – and we can all laugh at Noah’s rants (and some of our own) 5 years from now and chalk it up to his natural fatalism Wolfpack sports has pushed him to.

  20. BJD95 01/06/2009 at 5:32 PM #

    As usual, I’m pretty much wholly in agreement with chop. Next year is going to be crucial, no doubt about it. Should resolve most of the arguments we’ve had in this thread.

  21. beer03 01/06/2009 at 5:50 PM #

    First, I usually agree with Noah for the most part, and this thread is no exception…but to imitate some of his overblown verbiage…..If we are indeed on the Titanic and we all know we are going down, the question is no longer how did we get here but becomes how do we get the most people in the lifeboats? Basic design and operation flaws can and should be looked at much later.

    Translation: if we are in the kind of predicament that Noah proposes, how we got there doesn’t really matter in the immediate sense. What matters is the escape strategy or end game. If Sid can possibly be a part of the scenario, then that is probably the best way to go, no? So I wonder, are there any immediate escape routes wherein Sid might play an important role? Not sure I know.

    Oh, another thing, Fowler definitely is a part of the problem and not a part of any reasonable solution.

  22. Ed89 01/06/2009 at 6:03 PM #

    ^^^”If Sidney Lowe can ever get his hands on a Corch and Monroe, a Singletary and Reynolds, a Lowe and Whitenburg . . .

    Look the F out.

    This is what I beleive. I hope to see it happen. I think it will. I am willing to wait a coule more years to find out.”

    Back to the original thread topic, I’ll contend that we could easily have that with Wall and Brown in the same backcourt.

    ^^”Many of State’s players still play with a Sendekian robot-like manner with a complete lack of emotion.”

    I think the players are all playing with more emotion this year, but those players that this poster may be referring to undoubtedly were recruited by Sendek, thus their demeanor. I think Lowe is recruiting a different style of player. Read the articles on Brown, Howell, and Wood, and I think you’ll agree. Again, when Lowe has his players as Seniors (at the very least, 2 more years), we can debate. Until then, IMO the point is mute. I hold out hope for alot of improvement from our guards this year, and a fab-five type recruiting class next year (adding Wall and Favors or Cousins to our current LOI’s).

    I personally have seen ALOT of improvement from our team this year over last year. That is part of coaching… No losses to ECU or N.O., and no blowout losses like the debacle at Michigan State. We’ve lost 3 close games to good teams. The defense, although, maligned often on this site is in the top half of the conference in most categories. We’ll know more in a month or so, but I feel confident that we’ll be able to feed Noah at least a little crow. Steady improvement and top recruits will turn this thing around.

    Another thought to ponder is that even though Lowe lost out on his first year of recruiting, he also had to catch up for the next couple of years. He has not had the luxury of talking with these guys for the 2-3 years prior to his hiring. Most coaches are easily making contact with top recruits while they are 9th or 10th graders. These are the guys that are now in 12th grade (Favors, Wall, Brown) and we are looking very good so far. Any talk of Lowe not being a good coach because he had a bad NBA record with two expansion teams is off-base IMO. Go back and compare the players on those teams with the teams winning, and the record is probably not so surprising. Again, with good players, I think this staff will develop them into winners.

  23. Gene 01/06/2009 at 6:04 PM #

    “However, I think we’ve had a couple of questionable scholarships allocated.”

    Every program has one or two questionable scholarship allocations, but the good programs have the depth to cover those up.

    Quentin Thomas at Carolina would’ve been awful if he had to start as a freshman or sophomore, but became a serviceable back up as a senior and luckily for him and Carolina they had the talent and depth to cover up for him.

    For better or worse some of the reaches, which didn’t look likely to pan out are no longer with us, eating up those scholarships. Unfortunately Big Lew had a career ending injury, while Marques Johnson decided to transfer to a situation where he’d get more playing time.

    I think people really underestimate how difficult a personnel situation was thrust on the program, after Herb left. We had two top flight recruits – Fells and Cosnter, three top 100ish recruits – McCauley, Horner, and Grant, and Atsur. We had a wide array of walk-ons, with Nieman becoming a regular contributor during the year. A couple of others, who made the team during open try-outs during the season, who had some solid minutes later in the year and during our ACC tournament run.

    I think some of the issues with scholarship allocation was Lowe’s rush to get bodies into the program for year two.

    Right now one of the questionable scholarships, given by Sendek, is turning out to be a key contributer – Trevor Ferguson, while Javi Gonzalez doesn’t have to see major minutes because of the return of Degand and the maturation of Mays. Javi may come on, like Ferguson, to be effective when he’s in the line up.

    I just don’t see the doom and gloom for the long term prospects of the program. Recruiting is key and we’re getting solid, talented, players in here and whatever Lowe’s learning curve is as a college coach, you don’t spend 15+ years on the sidelines of the NBA and not have a good basketball IQ; there’s too much competition in the NBA for bad basketball people to have long careers.

    Just saw where Coach Yow will miss the rest of the season

    God Bless … Feel better soon

    It’s sad to see a really good person have to go throw what she is going through. I hope she gets better soon and I hope this won’t be the end for her.

  24. Wulfpack 01/06/2009 at 6:15 PM #

    “”Except Lowe technically has the better statistical record of perfomance.”

    Yea, boy those games against NCCU, Lipscomb, UNCG, New Orleans, High Point, Winston Salem State, Towson and those juggernauts from Loyola are really tough!

  25. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/06/2009 at 7:13 PM #

    As upset as we all are, fans should remember that State has lost 3 games by less than 10 points and two of those games were away and two were lost by long 3’s. The Pack has once again had to battle with ongoing injuries.

    I don’t think these young men lack the desire to win but I think they need to be allowed to show their passion. Most importantly this team needs someone to step up and lead. Someone in these tight games needs to show some confidence, slap some chest and kick some butt.

    State is almost there and just needs to show a little swagger. I know this isn’t Lowe’s style but in my uneducated opinion I believe a little less structure may help this team win these close games.

    Go Pack- Beat Clemson.

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