Tarantini gaffe costs soccer team ACC victory (updated Wed am)

The NC State soccer team has forfeited their only ACC victory this season over Boston College because they used an ineligible player. The information was out last week, however there is no explanation to be found on the NC State official website. The game story still has us winning, but the game has been changed on the schedule to reflect a 0-1 loss. The Technician coincidentally has a story today explaining the situation with quotes from Head Coach George Tarantini:

It is certainly something we have never faced before,” Tarantini said. “We discussed the situation right away.”

The forfeit was due to the participation of an ineligible player. The ineligibility was based on the number of red cards the student athlete accumulated over the previous games played. According to Lindsey Rogers, associate director of media relations for the ACC, the ineligible player was determined by a self report to the NCAA from the N.C. State coaching staff.

We have highlighted the performance of the soccer program in the past. While Lee Fowler obviously doesn’t consider competing for titles in men’s soccer a requirement for employment at NC State, then is it too much to ask a coach to understand and follow the most basic rules of the game to not directly cost his kids a conference victory?

AD & Department General NC State Administration Non-Revenue

71 Responses to Tarantini gaffe costs soccer team ACC victory (updated Wed am)

  1. Ed89 10/08/2008 at 10:15 AM #

    I agree with Greywolf – good post.

  2. Girlfriend in a Coma 10/08/2008 at 10:20 AM #

    How does the BOT feel about an AD that criticizes donors in the mass media?

    Seriously.

  3. WolftownVA81 10/08/2008 at 11:12 AM #

    This is just sad. I feel badly for the players who finally had something positive going for them. The deck is stacked against anyone who strives to acheive excellence in atheletics at NCSU.

  4. redfred2 10/08/2008 at 11:51 AM #

    I read greywolf’s post, twice, and I’m not quite getting the point.

    So greywolf, I take it from what you are saying, all of the men and women who are employed in the upper tier of NC State University basically have their hands tied, all because of the BOT. Which would mean that when it is blatently apparent that any employee is not functioning or getting his/her job done properly, that the NC State administration, or in this case the Chancellor, or the Athletic Director HAS ABSOLUTELY NO INFLUENCE in hiring and firing the people who he is ultimately responsible for?

    First, you are saying that the BOT’s major concern is academics. Then, at the very same time, you are saying that the administrators who are responsible for facets other than academics can’t make a decision about personnel without having the OK of the BOT.

    That is all crapola. But even if it isn’t, would you, Greywolf, please so kind as to explain how another school, with another athletic department, that’s in our own backyard, and has all of THE VERY SAME CRITERIA IN ACADEMICS that you use an excuse for NC State’s administration/athletics department, but that close neighbor is a flat WINNER in almost everything they attempt in athletics?

    Your post reminds me of something from my old buddy, wolfpackforever.

  5. Girlfriend in a Coma 10/08/2008 at 12:12 PM #

    Also, while greywolf is at it, can he explain his point when he talks about “To hire and fire on a whim”?

    Is this Tarantini we are talking about? I can’t believe that you mean canning Tarantini after well over a decade of our men’s soccer program being a screaming disaster that we, after an horrendous error with this latest red card caper, would be firing Tarantini “on a whim”?

  6. 66pack 10/08/2008 at 12:16 PM #

    GOOD REPLY REDFRED2 FOR READING GREYWOLF OVER AND OVER ONLY GAVE ME A HEADACHE.

  7. Scooter 10/08/2008 at 12:16 PM #

    Greywolf, the only thing consistent about your commentaries on this blog is that it is always terrible and aimed at making someone else feel like an idiot.

    As a lifelong fan, I’m used to losing. I don’t like it, but I’m used to it.

    The major difference between this mistake and chronic losing is the nature. A mistake like this is embarassing. The number of reds a player has is NOT hard to track and should be something that the coach should be aware of. Essentially, this makes it look like Tarantini doesn’t know what’s going on. If the coach doesn’t even know what’s going on, then who does? If no-one knows what’s going on, then how do we EVER expect to win?

    I can forgive tactical mistakes. I can forgive losing because of player errors on the field. I cannot forgive a mistake like this, because it makes us all look stupid. One can imagine that it probably isn’t bothering Tarantini too much that he gave away the one ACC victory we have in the new fuhcileties that the fans have paid for.

    When will the madness end? I was sure that Fowler would get the pink-slip when he skipped out on that dinner in Charlotte a few months ago. As I am told by opposing fans all the time, we look like idiots.

  8. wufpup76 10/08/2008 at 2:59 PM #

    Grey, it’s cool to play devil’s advocate and to also point out other perspectives b/c there are indeed (at least) two sides to every story … BUT, the buck has to stop somewhere

    Are you happy or unhappy with the state of athletics at NC State University? If you’re unhappy, where then does the responsibility for this ‘State of State’ lie? It may not all be on the AD’s office alone, but that’s where people are going to look and it’s a good place to start

    Most of us, at least most of us who visit this site, are pretty sour on the state of athletics as a whole at NC State … That doesn’t mean I’m content to be complaining all the time or that I want to be a “loveable loser” like Cubs fans – but I would like to see progress in the right direction …

    And when there is positive progress I acknowledge it, and I think SFN does a pretty good job actually of giving credit where it’s due … In fact, if Lee were in office and everything started to go right for a change I’d be more than willing to be the first in line to say “Good job. Well done – I’m happy to invest in the athletics side of my University”

    But, as redfred pointed out above – there is a sister instution right down the road from us in Chapel Hill who supposedly plays by the same set of rules for state run Universities … That University, within these same rules, manages to not only demand athletic excellence but penalizes those in charge of their respective athletics teams who don’t measure up to those demands for excellence … Can you or anyone else honestly say that there is the same type of structure for athletics performance an NC State University?

    For some reason, it doesn’t take schools like Chapel Hill in basketball or Notre Dame in football very long to pull the trigger on a head coaching change if they feel like they need to … Why shouldn’t we hold our people to the same standards? Because we’re some ‘lesser than’ University? … If Dick Baddour had messed up the coaching change after the Doherty situation he would no longer be the AD at Chapel Hill – I don’t really think there’s any question about that …

    Why then, is it ok for our AD to keep his position after the continous gaffes he makes (has made) that have been pointed out by others outside of SFN? You may say this particular soccer situation has absolutely nothing to do w/ Fowler – but, in actuallity it has EVERYTHING to do w/ Fowler b/c by almost all reasonable standards Tarantini should not still have that HC position … If nothing else, the AD is responsible for recommending whether a Head Coach should keep their position, get a raise, etc. to the BOT or whomever is above him … In my opinion, the buck stops with the AD, fair or not

  9. Scooter 10/08/2008 at 3:24 PM #

    It is pretty much an understood thing that as one advances up the food chain, that one takes on more responsibility — not just their own, but they take responsibility for the work of their subordinates as well. Therefore, while all victory and failure is not fully the fault of Lee Fowler. At times where action should be taken (as is the case with the NC State Men’s Soccer Team), however, his inability to act and have an influence to improve performance where he has the abilitiy to (by making a coaching change), he is entirely at fault. Responsibility is an “in appearance” as well as an “in fact” thing. As wolfpup noted above, Dick Badour did nothing to harm the men’s basketball team over in Chapel Hill, but he knew that he would be held responsbile for what happened if he did not take action. He did and it saved his job.

    The two major complaints about Lee Fowler are two fold. The first is that he doesn’t seem to care. Greywolf — if you owned a store and one of your managers didn’t care about his job or about the success or failure of the store, but only about drawing a paycheck, would you keep him around? The second major complaint about Lee Fowler is his lack of accountability for those who report to him. We have several sports programs who’s performance is not even on life support they are so bad. Lee, however, is unwilling or unmotivated to make a change to improve the state of these programs. The decisions peoples choose not to make can tell us as much about them as the decisions they do make.

  10. JimValvano 10/08/2008 at 3:37 PM #

    Just so everyone knows…we didn’t make the final 6 for Derrick Favors. I emailed the story to the site yesterday, but I haven’t seen anything mentioned about it. I just thought I’d add to the rainy day.

  11. Ismael 10/08/2008 at 3:57 PM #
  12. Ed89 10/08/2008 at 4:02 PM #

    JimValvano,
    What is your source? You may want to check your source(s) – I don’t think that is correct.

  13. EverettBeez 10/08/2008 at 4:05 PM #

    Heck Ismael, I was just getting ready to announce that! I heard it driving home from campus just now – although they are saying on sports radio here that they can’t get a confirmation out of Auburn.

    The papers here carried stories about the “new/old” Franklin showing up yesterday at practice. The Auburn fans have been really upset this year, talking about firing Tubberville, rumors of how interested he was in the Arkansas job last year, ect. I got a feeling that if Tubb’s didn’t make the move now he was in trouble at the end of the year.

  14. redfred2 10/08/2008 at 4:23 PM #

    I think that writer had better get his facts straight regarding Auburn’s football program, he’s way off base. It wasn’t Tuberville doing the firing, all of those decisions are handed down directly from Auburn’s BOT. We all know Tommy Tuberville is powerless to fire anyone.

    At least, that’s my understanding of how these things work. 😉

  15. cjt 10/08/2008 at 4:46 PM #

    Going back to the men’s soccer program…firing Tarantini should’ve been done 10 years ago. He has never really concentrated on getting the best players out of soccer-rich NC and although he was able to mine NJ/NY in the eighties, early nineties, he hasn’t been able to effectively do that in a decade. UNC and Wake Forest have dominated Tarantini in recruiting right in his back yard…in the triangle area. He’s not really involved in any of the area youth programs, for many years coached no ODP teams (Olympic Development) teams and watches as our rivals win not only conference but national championships! I don’t know what it will take to make a change but this program is stale and going nowhere. Maybe something as ridiculous as this forfeiture will open some eyes as to how bad it has gotten.

  16. redfred2 10/08/2008 at 5:31 PM #

    “firing Tarantini should’ve been done 10 years ago. He has never really concentrated on getting the best players out of soccer-rich NC and although he was able to mine NJ/NY in the eighties, early nineties, he hasn’t been able to effectively do that in a decade.”

    I can’t verify any of ^that because I do not keep up with soccer at all. But, if it is true, and most likely it is, then I’d say that there’s another example of a coach who probably came into the job motivated and wanting to do something positive within the NCSU athletics/soccer program. But now, he’s found something he loves even more. He’s found he loves being employed by, and picking up a check from, from a university that requires NOTHING of him.

    Tarantini’s been there for so long, that personally, I wouldn’t really even hold him responsible for much of anything. He has learned from other’s within the NC State’s heirarchy, and his personal failure make him just another casualty of all things that are NC State Athletics.

  17. redfred2 10/08/2008 at 5:49 PM #

    ^Pitiful typing on my part, I was rushing to get to diner, sorry.

  18. Greywolf 10/08/2008 at 5:57 PM #

    “Can you explain to me why Lee Fowler cannot replace George Tarantini?” No. I do suggest that institutional controls might explain why LF may not be able to replace a HC based soley on his won/lost record. Coaches who are on the post long term, may be protected somewhat in a tenure based environment.

    “How would replacing a coach who has been at NC State as long as Tarantini be “firing and hiring on a whim”?” It would not be. You created context for the phrase “firing and hiring on a whim.” To fire Tarantini because of even a grose administrative error the next day or so as some here are suggesting, would be IMO be “firing and hiring on a whim” I expect procedures would have to be followed and had been followed such as verbal notice, then written notice etc. Tarantini likely has a history of offenses that could ultimately be cause for termination, but unless he was warned and given notice, his boss deciding at the late date to fire him would have the University in a very bad position.

    “What institutional controls are there on the AD in terms of hiring and firing?” Are you questioning the existence of institutional controls regarding hiring and firing? If not, do the research and post them.

    “In terms of “due process and justification”, then do you really think a case cannot be made to fire Tarantini based on his record and mistakes such as this one that caused a forfeit? Are there other coaches who are making this same mistake and producing similar records where universities have been unable to replace them?”

    I would very much like to see a case prepared to justify the firing of George Tarantini. Perhaps one of our Associate ADs is working on it with the NCSU legal department.

  19. redfred2 10/08/2008 at 7:40 PM #

    Greywolf, back to the original question please.

    With all that you’re saying, how do you explain the many successes of unc athletics, vs the nothingness of NCSU athletics? Huh?

  20. turfpack 10/08/2008 at 9:00 PM #

    The negativeness and apathy of the average statefan has increased
    over the years under this group of incompetent so called leaders of our athletic department.
    There are people(some my friends) who just don’t care anymore-(you know it’s bad when your own fans think your irrelevant).
    SO LET’S JUST DO NOTHING –SOMETHING WE ARE VERY GOOD AT.

  21. redfred2 10/08/2008 at 9:20 PM #

    I just typed this response on the previous thread but I thought I might drag it over here…

    The way I see it and from the looks of the of the new Dennis Leary/slicked back/suit wearing/Geigo caveman look-alike who is now the spokesperson for NC State’s fast paced, high-tech image, it seems with all of that going on, that Lee Fowler’s good ole boy image is even more out of sync than ever before.

    I’m old school, I could tolerate, actually I’d personally and happily embrace, Coach Fowler’s farm boy image and his more than occasional blunders, IF it were backed up with some substance. I did LOVE IT back when NC State was the ANTI-unc, and everyone wearing RED was damned proud of it!!! because the knew better, but they still embraced their TRUE heritage as a university. Every STATE fan/student/alum wore their SUPPOSED “shit kicking”, “farm boys”, and “textile workers” image like it was a badge of honor. Back then, NC State folks didn’t feel any need look up to or emulate anything that was even remotely related to the unc way of thinking. They were comfortable enough in their own skins that unc’s snooty followers were more like bothersome little insects than something to model your entire university after. NC State didn’t even remotely feel the need to copy a liberal arts, wine and cheese factory from over on the other side of the hill in those days. The so-called “shit kickers” from NC State could, and actually did, kick the shit of the powder blue’s pretty much at will back then. And they did it quietly and soundly, in a manner that needed no verbal backup.

    All of that changed though, and I for one, do sorely miss those days. That being said, I really do not hold anyone who is in Raleigh now, responsible for any of that abrupt change of fortune way back when, that was a long, looong time ago. I do though, hold them absolutely responsible for being so blatantly ignorant as to perpetuate it.

  22. redfred2 10/08/2008 at 9:46 PM #

    turfpack, I have wanted some little SOMETHING for sooooo long, and without ever seeing a hint of anyone else in Raleigh wanting to do anything to accomplish that little something, that it’s made me bitter towards something that I used to absolutely love.

    If the sun does shine on The Wolfpack of NC State ever again, I’d like to think I can put all of this built-up bitterness aside, and just be happy and enjoy. But I don’t think it’ll ever mean the same, for me personally, again.

  23. redfred2 10/08/2008 at 10:12 PM #

    Oh yeah, I meant to type wolfpack”4″ever, instead of wolfpack”for”ever, earlier in the thread.

    Funny how people change their names around here…whoops, I meant to say…funny how your memory can play tricks on you around here.

  24. JeremyH 10/08/2008 at 10:43 PM #

    why was my post deleted, negativestatefansnation.com?

  25. Greywolf 10/08/2008 at 10:48 PM #

    Hi,
    I’ve heard what a great blog StateFansNation is so I thought I would check it out. I want to know what their fans think of the athletic programs of the schools I am considering. After reading what you fans think of your school’s athletic program, I don’t think NCSU is the school for me. I appreciate your saving me from this terrible mistake.
    Sincerely,
    FiveStar Recruit

    “Soccer, as it regards to NC State, just fell off the radar screen.”

    “It’s pitiful how inept we are.”

    “I know a member of the team. Practices are useless”

    “Are we purposely as a University trying not to be competitive in athletics?”

    “Wasn’t Tarantini also the LAX coach when that team got completely out of control?”

    “NCSU just sinks lower and lower under the Fowler/Oblinger watch.
    We are on the edge of irrelevance.”

    “The deck is stacked against anyone who strives to acheive excellence in atheletics at NCSU.”

    “well over a decade of our men’s soccer program being a screaming disaster”

    “how do you explain the many successes of unc athletics, vs the nothingness of NCSU athletics?”

    “The negativeness and apathy of the average statefan has increased
    over the years under this group of incompetent so called leaders of our athletic department.
    There are people(some my friends) who just don’t care anymore-(you know it’s bad when your own fans think your irrelevant).”

Leave a Reply