Tudor: NC State has most loyal fan base in NC

This may shock people, but some members of the media are starting to understand the frustrations of NC State’s supporters. On a morning where the Wall Street Journal did a feature on Bobby Purcell and the incredible fundraising efforts of NC State supporters, Caulton Tudor proves again (as he did last week) that he really has a grasp on NC State athletics:

N.C. State fans are grumbling, and they have a right to.

Various segments of the Wolfpack World are upset with football coach Tom O’Brien, basketball coach Sidney Lowe and/or athletics director Lee Fowler.

These are dark days for State. To say otherwise is to disregard scoreboards, which are the first and ultimately, the final, measure of popularity.

In my 40 or so years of covering sports in North Carolina, the most loyal fan base across the spectrum has been State’s. Through almost as much thin as thick, they’ve purchased the tickets, attended the games, followed through on their financial pledges and stood by their own, including alum Chuck Amato for longer than would have been the case at most area schools.

Here is another from Joe Ovies of 850theBuzz:

Emphasis added, and staggering if you think about it (that Ohio State has half the number of booster club members as NC State). Ohio State fans are like roaches that are hiding everywhere and the Buckeyes win ball games (except those that matter), so you would think donors are be lining up to hand over their money. And for the most part they are, but not as much as a school that could never match its tradition and success. NC State football hasn’t won an ACC title since 1979 and has failed to finished higher than 4th in the ACC in over a decade. The basketball team is bogged down by a tougher that expected transition from the Herb Sendek years (which produced no ACC titles to begin with). At this rate, Wolfpack Nation is the equivalent of late 90’s venture capitalists dumping more money into a “dot com” start-up like Pets.com right before the bubble burst.

One important correction for Caulton Tudor and any other member of the media that may read this entry:

The issues at NC State may or may not have anything to do with Sidney Lowe and Tom O’Brien. It is way premature for either of these coaches to be under any type of pressure from NC State fans or anyone in the media. Lowe took the reigns from Herb Sendek two years ago with six total scholarship players while Tom O’Brien inherited a program that was coming off a 3-9 record (worst record in almost fifty years).

That isn’t to say that both coaches have been perfect during their time in Raleigh, but at this point both coaches deserve 100% support from every NC State fan. Now if you want to criticize others at NC State who impact our athletic programs and have been here longer than five years (as this blog has done on multiple occasions), then go right ahead. Glad to see you are finally catching on.

Here is an earlier entry from StateFans Nation focusing on Lee Fowler:

If you visit regularly visit SFN then you know how to search our archives to find any of our many articles on the current position of NC State’s poorly performing Athletics Department. But, if you need some quick help you can click here for just a sampling of some entries that might be of interest to you.

In that^ spirit – and as Lee Fowler enters his NINTH year of ‘leading’ NC State’s Athletics Department – the projected performance of the programs on which he has put his stamp for almost a decade seems to resemble the underwhelming performance of recent years.WHEN will it get better? WHEN are you, as NC State supporters, allowed to ask such questions and deserve a legitimate response?

AD & Department Fans General NCS Basketball NCS Football Quotes of Note

41 Responses to Tudor: NC State has most loyal fan base in NC

  1. b 09/19/2008 at 12:41 PM #

    TOB is doing well considering his myriad of issues, if you can’t see that you don’t understand football.

    Fowler OTOH has had over a decade of opportunity and has publicly embarassed the University on numerous occasions, and that is not counting the on-field embarassments.

    Oblinger is either a coward or an idiot for not having dispensed with him long ago, any criticism of Status-Quoblinger is directed primarily at his handling of the AD, though many others here have cited his suspect changes to overall University culture. He may do well in his handling of the Academic side based on overall results, but this site is DEDICATED to the AD and focuses its attention there.

  2. LKNpackfan 09/19/2008 at 12:42 PM #

    The suggestion that fans are upset with TOB and Tudor’s impeccable timing are the items I’m upset with. The timing of the article paints an inaccurate picture of a hot(ish)seat underneath TOB, and presents it to the national media that are in-town. Can anyone confirm this is in the print-edition of the N&O?

  3. Daily Update 09/19/2008 at 12:44 PM #

    Wolfprof: Check out this link.


    Or here for the direct link.

    Similar to how Fowler’s ultimate destiny at NC State is tied to the success of Sidney Lowe, Oblinger through his support of Fowler’s contract extension all the way through 2013 and granting him an Award for Excellence has tied himself to Lee Fowler.

  4. wolfprof 09/19/2008 at 1:09 PM #

    Daily Update: Thanks for the links. I think I now see the root of the disaffection for JO.

  5. choppack1 09/19/2008 at 1:19 PM #

    “You know an expose focused on the mismanagement of the athletics department by Lee would really bring in a lot of readers. Why won’t they do this? It certainly would generate a lot of conversation.”

    Statered – that’s an excellent question. Of course, if you were around in the 80s or 90s – you’d know the answer. You see, Les Robinson was never really criticized in the media. No one was infuriated when Les kept on being allowed to stay as NC State coach after year 3 all but proved he was in waaaaay over his head. OTOH, when a state coach is new or doing well, you will see negative articles.

    Like I said, if Tudor really wanted to make a statement – he would have written an article blasting Fowler. That he’s placing the blame on a 2nd year HC, in game 3, who outpaced his predecessor in Chapel Hill in last year, makes me kind of suspicious.

    So, to answer your question – I’d submit that Tudor WANTS Lee Fowler to remain at State for the same reason most of the media WANTED Les Robinson to remain at State. With him at the helm, success becomes less likely every year.

  6. Daily Update 09/19/2008 at 1:25 PM #

    Choppack1: I think you are one of the most astute posters on here, but the conspiracy theories you present in regards to the media are so far over the top.

    Where is there anything in his article about placing blame? All he said was that if we lose, then some NC State fans will be upset with TOB and that TOB needs this win. Those statements are 100% accurate.

  7. Mike 09/19/2008 at 2:16 PM #

    I’m sorry I cant agree with all of you that think this is a hack job. I think Tudor is one of the honest columnists they have and his writings have been right on the spot.

    Tudor supported “us” in HWSNBN, Tudor supported “us” in the Amato issues, and he is supporting us now. What I took from the article was that WE NCSTATE FANS SUPPORT OUR TEAM IN SPITE OF THE INADEQUECIES OF FOWLUP.

  8. wufpup76 09/19/2008 at 2:48 PM #

    ” I understand that LF reports to Oblinger, and the latter could, but has not, fired the former, but what else inspires the vitriol (about Oblinger)?”

    wolfprof, I know Daily Update has already answered your (good) question in full, but to add to it there is a sentiment on here – and I guess among State athletics fans in general – that Oblinger hates athletics and is content to keep everything dealing w/ athletics (including Lee Fowler) at the “status quo” level SO LONG AS THE MONEY KEEPS ROLLING IN … take that for what it’s worth

    ***

    Also, I agree with ‘b’ in that I think O’Brien is actually handling the football program and it’s myriad issues well … We’ve had an abnormal amount of injuries in not even 2 seasons (abnormal even for N.C. State) … Add to this the fact that the cupboard was pretty barren when TOB arrived and I’m not sure what kind of miracles you can expect … It’s my opinion that someone like TOB is the perfect leader/coach to turn around a situation like N.C. State football finds itself in now

    TOB has a great coaching track record and his military experience groomed him to be an excellent organizer/planner … You can only play with what you have, and right now we don’t have much … Given time, though, I think we will have a lot to show for during our time under Tom O’Brien

  9. wufpup76 09/19/2008 at 2:51 PM #

    “EZU’s run D is kinda suspect, isn’t it?”

    Against VT, the Pirates’ run D was solid; against WVU it was spectacular (but WVU is certainly not as strong as expected this season w/ another loss last night – to Colorado) … Unsure about the Tulane game

    They are missing their standout linebacker now, so we’ll see how it plays out … Very happy to have our little workhorse Eugene back though

  10. McPete 09/19/2008 at 3:05 PM #

    this is from the 850 the buzz blog. same poster referenced above:

    Just reading some more of that article:

    “Purcell’s dream job opened that same year when athletic director Les Robinson resigned, but he lost out when Fox picked Lee Fowler, athletic director at Middle Tennessee State University. Fox, who has since left, talked about bringing in “new blood.” What she didn’t say was that Purcell might be too tight with such powerful donors as Murphy and Raleigh real-estate developer Steve Stroud. Picking Purcell might have meant giving them title to the red Cadillac when they already held the keys. She selected someone over whom she might exercise better control.”

    Damn you, Marye Anne Fox. Damn you all to hell.”

    interesting. i wonder if Purcell would be the guy now, should Fowler be shown the door. Question: is he too connected to the good ole boys surrounding the athletics department to bring fresh ideas? what are his leadership qualities?

  11. choppack1 09/19/2008 at 4:41 PM #

    Daily Update – I see your point -and yea, it’s a little over the top…And I don’t consider a conspiracy – I just wonder why he hasn’t delved into the issue enough to see this huge, glaring, throbbing problem.

    Like I said, my big gripe is that Lee gets a relative pass, but TOB gets criticism.

    PackinRussia – whether it’s bad timing or bad luck or something deeper…Andre Brown came back for our game vs. Wake Forest (and didn’t look himself mind you) – and no, we haven’t beaten a Division 1A school since he was a “go” for a game. Personally, though, this may have been related to the fact that it’s 3 road games against solid teams and 1 home game that I still can’t explain. (Well, I can, but I don’t want to.)

  12. BoKnowsNCS71 09/19/2008 at 7:51 PM #

    I’ll tell you one thing. Bobby Purcell works his tail off because he loves the Wolf pack and raises money to make us better. If he was ever the AD — that same drive and ambition would come to strengthening our sports performance.

  13. Packaholic1 09/19/2008 at 9:43 PM #

    If we ever get a coach who wins, we will chase him away. This is our nature and our history.

  14. CStanley 09/19/2008 at 9:56 PM #

    I know Caulton personally. I can tell you right now, the man does not hate NC State, and this was no hit piece. It is 100% spot on.

    He’s got an earful from myself and many other NC State fans who know him personally. His only fault is not going after Fowler sooner than now.

    If you think that article was critical of Sid or TOB, then you don’t have very good reading comprehension. He attacked Fowler point blank, and it’s about time. I’m honestly shocked that most State fans haven’t gotten it by now.

    The man has no standard of success, at least none by which he has held coaches until now, his NINTH year at the helm. He has turned a once proud athletics program into a cluster fuck. When I was in school, a 7-5 year is mediocre. Going to the NIT was mediocre. We can’t do either now. More importantly, our ENTIRE athletics dept. with the exception of maybe baseball and a couple of other sports, is at an all time low.

    It is time to fire Lee Fowler. The numbers do not lie. There is no production. He is in charge of an athletics department that is an utter failure, from the top money makers all the way to the bottom.

  15. sholtzma 09/19/2008 at 10:12 PM #

    Well, I am tired after a long week, so I could well be misinterpreting Tudor’s piece. But here’s how it sounded to me. He sounded as if he was sincerely trying to portray reality. Of course, the reality is that our sports are pisspoor, so naturally Tudor’s piece sounded negative. So far, so good. But that doesn’t go far enough.

    Here’s the problems, see. When State’s programs do well or do something well, that is, when they deserve media attention and praise instead of media attention and critique, where oh where is Tudor then with a realistic piece? Where oh where are most (if not all) of the media then? That discrepancy bothers some of us. It bothers us because it smacks of hypocrisy, of a double standard. It’s as if the implicit message is, “We the media will cover you realistically when the story is negative, but we won’t cover you realistically when the story is positive.” That smacks of bias. By the way, can we please can the conspiracy” talk. There is no conspiracy, but there most certainly is very deep-rooted and long-lasting bias against State.

    For me, Tudor’s article was another “ho-hum”, “there’s-the-bias-again” dribble from the N&O. But at least it was partly realistic. I say “partly”, because as some on here have already pointed out, the poor administration of the sports program at State is a crucial reality that Tudor neglected to point out. And wasn’t that a convenient item to leave out?! So, Tudor’s piece isn’t even that realistic after all. It misplaces some blame or heat, fails to identify the core of the problem, and tosses a bone to the “long-suffering State fans” (but of course in reality Tudor doesn’t give a rat’s ass about us).

  16. redfred2 09/20/2008 at 12:14 PM #

    Some of you make very interesting points as to the intent of Tudor’s article, whether his underlying intent is actually damaging to NC State or not?

    While it might be unfortumate that some well intentioned FB and BB coaches were collaterally damaged by an article that talks about a group of money grubbing/social climbing/politically correct until it hurts/boyscouts/p****y’s/”administrators”, then I’ll just ask you, how “damaging” can an article R E A L L Y be that states ABSOLUTE TRUTH about the “losing is fine by NC STATE’S ADMINISTRATION as long as the money is still pouring in” mentality in Raleigh?

    If the truth hurts, so be it. I welcome any and every article that highlights how miserable the leadership truly IS!!!

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