Post-Game Thoughts

* NC State took the field against a good, versatile QB and an excellent, athletic defense (justifiably a Top 15-20 caliber team, unlike ECU) without one single above-average player on either side of the ball. We could play USF 100 times, and we’d lose at least 99.

* USF clearly watched film of last week’s second half. They attacked the areas where Nate Irving would have been early and repeatedly – to incredibly good results (3 TDs on first 3 drives, rarely even getting to 3rd down). They are well-coached, and it showed.

* Harrison Beck underthrew several deep balls in the first half, with WRs breaking wide open. When he doesn’t hit passes like that, our offense wouldn’t threaten a good D-III defensive unit.

* We are damned lucky Russell Wilson couldn’t play today (or that TOB was smart enough to hold him out). The Bulls’ defensive line is sick, and they beat the shit out of Harrison Beck. Fortunately, Beck brings lots of extra padding to the field. In all seriousness, Beck deserves our kudos for hanging in there the whole game and not playing scared. This is not to be confused with playing well – but he took one for the team.

* I don’t know what it is with NC State and waiting for the snap. Against Clemson, we seemingly jumped offsides every other play. Tonight, it was the offense’s turn for repeated false starts.

* As an NC State fan, you are playing with house money this year. Savor every win, and every good effort you get from this ragtag bunch, and quit expecting a baseline of respectability based on those brief shining monents. This is an absolutely awful football team (no depth, scant athleticism, player attrition, 2+ years of terrible recruiting by Amato), and your average coach would win no more than 1 or 2 games with this roster. You can expect respectability and 2009, and real Tom O’Brien teams in 2010 and 2011. Remember, O’Brien’s first real recruiting class is in its true freshman year.

* Our students are pretty awesome. The harder it rained, the louder they got, despite no realistic hope for winning (or even competing in) the game. At least half of them stayed at least until halftime, while over 80% of the rest of the fans hightailed it to their cars early in the second quarter.

* I drove home barefoot (yes, I stayed almost to the end of the third quarter – maybe 4,000 non-Vaughn Towers fans remained). It was the best decision I made all night.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

'08 Football Fans

52 Responses to Post-Game Thoughts

  1. BoKnowsNCS71 09/28/2008 at 2:22 PM #

    Redfred — In the case of the tunnel and seeing the light. What we are going through is more like a colonscopy.

    We (the fans and the team) are the light going through the tunnel. Unfortunately for a while there is a whole lot of S*** still in the tunnel and until that gets cleared up and healthy – we most likely won’t see much we like until it passes.

    And for you young guys who have not had the experience of the Hubble Telescope up the discharge unit — it’s a matter of time.

  2. b 09/28/2008 at 2:27 PM #

    Leavitt has built a solid program, and Groethe is RW in year three. He is a solid dual threat QB with a plethora of experienced WRs and a capable line. Their defense is stout, and they were motivated coming in. We were a little hungover from the ECU game and even if they were ready to play in the first half it would have been a tall order. There was nothing to build off in this game, it was a total throw away. Comparing us to Duke and UNC is pointless, they have both played far easier schedules and haven’t endured anything close to the same amount of adversity.

    There are several more opportunities for wins, and hopefully, a few starters will start trickling back INTO the lineup for a change. This is grin and bear it year, but not over by any stretch.

  3. redfred2 09/28/2008 at 2:50 PM #

    It was a B A D enough showcase on the talent disparity side but just think if instead of playing UCF last night, we had been facing the likes of Ohio State, no wait, So Cal, no wait, Georgia, no wait,…

  4. Wufpacker 09/28/2008 at 8:59 PM #

    Not to beat a dead horse here, but despite how ugly (or perhaps because of how ugly) last nite’s game was, I keep going back to how much I appreciate the heart and intestinal fortitude that Beck showed by hanging in there throughout what must have been a gut wrenching experience for a QB.

    I mean think about it. The injuries alone on our team would make grown men cry (and has made many of us cry, I suspect). His O-line couldn’t get anything going in front of him. We had absolutely no running game established (27 carries for 26 yds, I believe) which allowed USF to tee off on our passing attack. Add to that the poor protection/pass blocking, again from our O-line, and its amazing that Beck…

    1)completed the passes he did,
    2) did not turn the ball over more, and
    3) did not sustain injury that would have knocked him from the game.

    With no more help than he had it really is amazing that he was able to do as much as he did.

    As for the defense, it really amazes me that they seemed so lost without Nate Irving in the mix. The fact that the absence of one player could make such a 180 degree difference to the entire unit is mind-boggling to me. But on the bright side (if there is one) the defense did seem to be coming together a bit more as the game went on, so perhaps as a unit they matured a little bit during the course of the game in Irving’s absence. Hey, I can dream, can’t I?

    I agree that if (and this is a big if) we can get past the injury bug, and not lose any more significant playing time to injury that the USF game could be the low point of the season. Like many of you I don’t see any one else on our schedule that should be any tougher than they are. If we can come together and mature a little as a team and avoid any more significant injuries, we could be in for a bit of an upswing as the second half of the season unfolds. Just the fact that, despite how bad we’ve looked at times, a win next week would get us back to .500 overall and in the conference at the halfway point of the season is completely amazing to me.

  5. Greywolf 09/28/2008 at 11:48 PM #

    As I read down the comments, I was very pleased to see good analysis, thoughtful comments, and realism. The few comedians with the cutesy comments somewhat mitigated themselves. But what the hell does what Oblinger may or may not think have to do with THIS game? Bringing in the administation merely avoids confronting what the Pack has to do to win a football game.

    Nate Irving was well on the way to firts team All-America before the injury. He is being replaced by a true freshman. And you want to know how that can make such a difference? Care to withdraw the question?

    We need to acknowledge something here. Programs like Alabama, Ohio State, USCal, Michigan, Notre Dame, Nebraska and Oklahoma and maybe
    Texas, LSU, Florida, Auburn, Arkansaw, and a few others, get better athletes WALKING ON than some we can sign for scholarships. Those schools have invited walk-on programs that are stocked with good athletes that have wanted to play for their school since peewee football. Those are the kids that used to be on scholarship when scollies were unlimited.

    What does this mean? First and foremost it quarantees quality depth, competition for position and a scout squad that can provide something to prepare the first and second teams for Saturday. Our scout squad has got to suck. With our manpower situaion, anybody worth squat is starting for goodness sake.

    You self-righteous impatient, I-demand-result-now big-talkers haven’t a clue what it means to have or not have a football PROGRAM. Those demands for results now, just show your ignorance.

    Teams like the afore mentioned Alabama, Ohio State, USCal, Michigan, Notre Dame, Nebraska and Oklahoma don’t miss a beat. They just re-load. Matt Cassel, who replaced Tom Brady, never started a college game yet he was drafted and another team also wanted him. He backed up Carson Palmer for 2 years and Matt Leinhart for the last 2 years after a fierce battle for starter roll. Compare that situation to our QB situation over the last 4 years.

    Alabama, Ohio State, USCal, Michigan, Notre Dame, Nebraska and Oklahoma highlight the difference quality coaching can make but do you think NCSU would have steamrolled Clemson this year just because Nick Saban liked the winning tradition here and took our HC job? TOB is a fine football coach but he’s no fucking magician.

    Our players don’t suck. They are giving it their all, ala Russel Wilson playing injured and Nate Irving trying to play in the second half. ECU didn’t have a week to prepare a game plan to take advantage of Nate Irving being replaced by a true freshman so we dodged a bullet with Maddox in his place. Without Nate Irving in the game SFU just ate us up underneath in the middle. It’s a different ballgame with Irving in there.

    EZU also didn’t have a week to prepare for Beck’s weaknesses and strengths. The read option is what Gothe used to eat our lunch and he’s been using it for a few years now. He sticks the ball in the backs gut and options our line creating real problems. That’s what RW for us and he is getting better and better at it.

    Oh, did you think USF just put there D on the field and told them to go at it and they whipped our ass with superior athleticism? Well, that too but the difference is they practice for the specific opponent. Kudos to the SFU coaching staff for a great game plan.

    And no I’m not knocking ours. It takes athletes to execute a game plan. Our coaches will do extraordinary thing with what they have to work with. We will win some people think we aren’t suppose to win.

    Regarding our team appearing flat, maybe TOB didn’t want to jack them up to take a fall without our leaders on O & D available. We don’t need broken spirits on this team caused by losing after being told they can win games they are greatly outmanned. IMO You save that for the UNCs on your schedule.

    We may not win another game. That does’nt stop me from being proud of our players. I know Beck, and others, left all they had to give on the field regardless of how it may have looked to me at the time.

  6. Wulfpack 09/29/2008 at 6:27 AM #

    What about UNC and Duke? Are those football powerhouses? Clearly not. But in a very short amount of time with their respective head coaches, they are both making notable progress. They have improved.

  7. Par Shooter 09/29/2008 at 7:29 AM #

    Considering the circumstances I wasn’t all that disappointed in our offense aside from the numerous false start penalties. It was obvious from the first drive that we’d have to score a bunch and their D got to play from ahead all night. With Beck at QB and their quickness all over the field we had a very tall order. I think our guys, aside from the boneheaded penalties, gave it their all but we just aren’t going to do much without Wilson against good defenses. Beck gave it his all but he’s just not much of a QB.

    The D, however, is an entirely different matter. Not having Irving hurt but that is no excuse for Jeremy Gray to miss at least 4 tackles or Ray Michel to miss a bunch of tackles or DeAndre Morgan to refuse to make a play when they throw at him all night or Willie Young to play like the invisible man. Our D simply didn’t show up and that was on the guys suited up moreso than Irving. It was painfully obvious that Maddox does not belong on a college field at this point in his career but he’s young and maybe he can learn. Playing a spread team with a great OL and QB in your first start put him in a tough spot and it showed. Can’t fault him – just hope he gets better.

  8. Rick 09/29/2008 at 7:36 AM #

    “You self-righteous impatient, I-demand-result-now big-talkers haven’t a clue what it means to have or not have a football PROGRAM. Those demands for results now, just show your ignorance.”

    Where are these people? I do not see them.

  9. choppack1 09/29/2008 at 7:48 AM #

    Wulfpack – last year – we improved. We went from being 3-9, to 5-7, we went from being 2-6 in the ACC, to 3-5. We went from losing to ECU and UNC (3 straight years) – to beating them both. This year, we beat a nationally ranked ECU team at home. We are 1-3 vs. 4 solid teams – 2 of them on the road. The 3 teams that we have lost to have established head coaches – all 4 of these teams are consensus Top 35 programs – or at least 3 of them were until Saturday.

    Only an idiot would have predicted us going better than 2-3 w/out Russell Wilson being able to finish 3 of these games, without David Bowens, without Alan Michael-Cash. Heck, even w/ all of returning starters, most experts picked us last in the conference.

    Let’s put it in perspective. We faced a Top 15 team starting the following:
    1)7 returning starters from 2007.
    2) 5 players starting because another starter was injured.
    3) This leaves w/ a whopping 10 starters who have started this year – who are…1st year starters.

    I wasn’t thrilled w/ the way we started last year, but you need a reality check if you are expecting anything better than what you’ve seen on the field thus far w/ what we’re having to play these games with.

    Our OL – the most injury free unit we’ve got this year – starts 2 DLs and a former walk on. The most talented lineman is out (after missing the 1st game this year due to disciplinary action.)

    Our WR core has 0 returning starts from last year.

    Andre Brown has played great so far this year.

    Our DL has 1 returning starter from last year, 2 from opening game.

    Our LB has 1 guy started some last year – Ray Michel…We started a true frosh at MLB. We have a converted safety (former walk-on) at one of the LB spots.

    Our DB is pretty solid. We have 2 corners w/ extensive experience. Byers and Neal have been solid at the safety, but Clem Johnson was supposed to start at one of those positions.

    I assure you, if you put a Duke or UNC jersey on the same group of guys and had Cutcliffe or Butch Davis coach them, they’d be 2-3 or worse.

  10. Classof89 09/29/2008 at 8:41 AM #

    I second the comment on our receivers…Coming into the year, I thought OL was the weak spot on offense, but its becoming clear to me that we are absolutely pathetic at the wideout. I sure hope we are going after some absolute studs in recruiting WR this year, because we are going to be able to offer immediate 100% playing time to at least two, and probably more. I bet there are at least 5 and maybe more high school wide receivers in North Carolina right now who are better than anyone we have who saw the field Saturday night.

    And Noah, there is a light at the end of the tunnel for one wolfpack team. The volleyball team appears to have turned a corner–picked up two ACC wins this weekend, breaking a staggering three-year 56 match losing streak in the ACC, and in the first weekend of conference play already have the most ACC wins for the Pack since 1999. Congratulations to Coach Stubbs, who has persevered through two awful seasons and is seeing some results in year three…Here’s to TOB seeing the same improvement in his third season…

  11. Par Shooter 09/29/2008 at 8:52 AM #

    I think you’re being a bit hard on the receiving corps. We are not playing one single upperclassman at WR and the only one who has taken a snap all year is Geron James who doesn’t really have any experience due to his year off (and he’s now hurt). Losing Bowens was huge to this group because there is no “go to guy” with any experience whatsoever. I think there is quite a bit of talent in these young guys and they’ve made some plays this year. The improvement from USC to ECU was very noticeable. Hell, they got behind the USF DB’s a few times Saturday night and Beck couldn’t get it to them. I think that once these guys get more experience and can develop timing with RW or Glennon over the next couple of years that they will be a strength.

  12. Noah 09/29/2008 at 9:16 AM #

    Don’t think for a second that Carolina hasn’t recruited reasonably well the last couple of years.

    They have an excellent DL, a very good secondary and a couple of decent linebackers.

    On offense, their OL is playing better than I would have thought and they have a very good WR corp. I was not a huge Yates fan and I think Paulus sucks (at this point), but a combo of Yates and maybe Sexton could at least be league-average.

    Frankly, I’m ready for Butch Davis to take the UCLA job or the Tennessee job or the Purdue job and get the hell out of Chapel Hill.

  13. choppack1 09/29/2008 at 9:17 AM #

    Oh, I think our receivers will be good in a couple of years (maybe even next year)…they are just young right now.

  14. Wulfpack 09/29/2008 at 10:02 AM #

    All I am saying is I do not like the direction we are headed in. If I am a Duke or UNC fan, I’m very excited about the future. We suck right now, bottom line. I am not into playing the blame game. Other teams are finding ways to win with limited resources. And last week was a total debacle. We did not even show up and that is very concerning. I am just getting frustrated. Last year everyone was saying wait wait wait..and now we are saying the same thing. Ok, I’m waiting…

  15. wufpup76 09/29/2008 at 10:37 AM #

    “As I read down the comments, I was very pleased to see good analysis, thoughtful comments, and realism … ”

    Well, as long as we are pleasing you – b/c that’s why we all come here – to please you with our respective commenting skills … There is absolutely no other reason for anyone else to come here

    Seriously dude, you REALLY need to chill … You DON’T have to flame every person who doesn’t think or behave like you … The goal of a website in general is to attract as many hits as possible, not start flaming wars or drive people off who have differing opinions … SFN’s mods will take care of the trolls, spammers, or people they just don’t like

    In case you didn’t notice, this ISN’T your blog – yet you’re incessantly judging others’ comments or flaming people as if you’re the person who decides who gets voted off the island … Well, here’s someone judging your comments: Your comments are actually just fine WHEN YOU ARE STAYING ON TOPIC AND NOT PLAYING THOUGHT POLICE

    Since this is America, you are free to start your own blog and play dictator while throwing down the Ban Hammer to all those you disapprove of … While you’re here though, please try and play nice … There is a huge difference in respectfully disagreeing with someone and just out-and-out flaming or calling out people …

    There are already some folks who haven’t been back after you called them out in a thread and some others piled on them with you … I’m sure SFN appreciates the lack of hits … You may think this makes you the A#1 State fan by driving off posers, but really all you’re doing is limiting the audience to only people who think exactly like you … Not cool …

    That is a double standard, b/c in the past you have derided others for “only wanting others to agree w/ their comments while offering no insight” … This is pretty much all you are doing when you’re going off topic to berate people … Dude, just let other people comment – the idiots, spammers, and trolls will take care of themselves … There is zero need in someone trying to be the best fan ever while calling out everyone and trying to drive people off – some of whom have been here a great deal longer than you

  16. SEAT.5.F.2 09/29/2008 at 10:42 AM #

    Post game thoughts…

    When a coach says “they took their lumps a couple years and now they are dishing some out”, we have a great idea what the latter looks like.

  17. Scooter 09/29/2008 at 12:12 PM #

    To Greywolf — In addition to wolfpup’s comments, this isn’t Alabama, Michigan, etc… If you read the top, you would note that this is the website for NC STATE. I don’t care one gosh-darn bit about those other programs if they aren’t playing us. They may be great and fun to watch, but they are not NC State.

    That said, Grey, what we are trying to do is build something. Are we Texas or any of those others? No one questions that. Do we expect results? You bet your old grey ass. If you don’t expect us, the fans, to expect results, then what do you expect? I think it is rather moronic of you and the ESPN talking heads to expect us to be satisfied with mediocrity. The goal is to build a long-term successful program and the donors and fans have ponied up to make it happen.

    Unrealistic expectations? To post as much as you do, you sure don’t read a damn thing. Most of us expected this to be a tough year. No one could have predicted that things would be this tough. Maybe we’re griping to each other, but I’d say we’re due for a little bit.

    Having been an NC State fan my whole life, Grey, you sure don’t seem to be in touch with many of the home-truths that come with being a fan of NC State, one of them being to expect improvement.

  18. choppack1 09/29/2008 at 12:16 PM #

    “All I am saying is I do not like the direction we are headed in. If I am a Duke or UNC fan, I’m very excited about the future. We suck right now, bottom line. I am not into playing the blame game. Other teams are finding ways to win with limited resources. And last week was a total debacle. We did not even show up and that is very concerning. I am just getting frustrated. Last year everyone was saying wait wait wait..and now we are saying the same thing. Ok, I’m waiting…”

    What direction is that? It’s not like we just lost to a lousy team. We lost to a team Saturday that is in the Top 15 – and a team that is very talented.

    I really don’t know what you expected this year. Last year, as I noted – the results were better than the year before. However, for our first game this year, on offense we were starting 8 new players, on defense, we were starting 6 new players. That’s 8 (or you could argue 10) returning starters from a team w/ a losing record.

    By the time we suited up against USF, we’d lost 2 starters who are critical to our success.

    Each coaching situation – and each season is different. You can only play the cards you are dealt. Yes, Duke and UNC are having good seasons thus far..But Duke’s best win thus far is Navy (who is 3-2 WITH the win over Wake Forest.)

    UNC just had a big win over Miami, but they also lost to a beatable VaTech team. Of course, their other wins have been over a Division 1AA team and a sorry Rutgers squad.

    Last year, TOB defeated Butch and ECU. That should be enough for you to realize that perhaps things will be better one day – if we can catch a break. This year, when we’ve had Wilson in the game, things have been competitive. You have to realize what a drop off we’ve got when he leaves the game.

    In addition, if you are wondering how important a MLB can be to a defense – look at ECU. 3 weeks ago they lost their starter…since then, they’ve dropped 2 games.

    I could go on and on. I think you are really just disappointed that our season appears to be going down the toilet. Join the club. This year might not be pretty at all – especially if we can’t Russell Wilson healthy and Irving’s injury doesn’t get better. But if we do get healthy, I really think we can be competitive in the rest of our games. Hopefully, we can win 4 of them and get a bowl bid.

    You’ll get a much better barometer of where our program is heading Saturday. Now, if we lose 41-10 to BC, I’ll join the party w/ you.

  19. choppack1 09/29/2008 at 1:28 PM #

    Scooter – What do you expect when a coach is in his 2nd year – and he’s playing on a squad that’s been decimated by injuries? What do you expect, when your leader on offense and defense is out of the game?

    You remind me of my boss…you refuse to consider additional information when looking at a problem. It’s not like all 12 ACC teams started off equally – and we are where we are. We started off behind the 8 ball – and somehow it’s gotten worse.

    The big difference between this and our b’ball program is that we have a coach and staff w/ extensive experience – and a history of some success. One has to believe that he can at least replicate the success he’s had at BC.

    I’m just curious as to what you would have expected so far against the schedule we’ve had so far. We are right now – where most reasonable and informed people expected us to be – 2-3..(actually, I think MOST experts would have thought we’d be 1-4 right now.)

  20. Wulfpack 09/29/2008 at 2:05 PM #

    UNC lost their starting QB and still went down to Miami and came out with a win. We lose our QB, and suddenly our offensive line forgets how to block, our defensive line plays one-hand touch, and our secondary takes a nap.

    Yes, USF is good. But that good? Hell no. Not in our house. We got punched in the mouth and stayed down. THAT is what I am PO’d about.

    I did not expect to see a win. I am not crazy. But I DID expect to see us build on the ECU win and not move in reverse.

    I am prepared for a disappointing year. But I also want to see some improvement.

  21. choppack1 09/29/2008 at 2:32 PM #

    Wulfpack = Yep, what you’re forgetting is that their 2nd string QB failed to move the team, THEN Sexton came in. So they have options that we don’t have. Also, remember Butch is pretty much 1 year ahead of TOB. He was hired in November (if memory serves correctly.) He was able to build a pretty solid class. In addition, Bunting had recruited decent talent at QB before leaving…Sexton was a pretty hot commodity when he was in high school – as was Paulus. Still, that’s just one position – do you think UNC wins at Miami if they lose Tate, Marvin Austin and their best linebacker? Because – that’s what we were facing. Let’s not talk about them returning more talent than we had returning last year. Oh yea, did I mention that we BEAT THEM LAST YEAR?

    Like you – I am hoping to see improvement. The only difference is that I’ll make my judgement at the end of the year. Still, even if we lose every game this year, it won’t change the fact that we’ve got a coach who has had success at a BCS school in the past – and I have to believe that he’ll do it again.

  22. Ismael 09/29/2008 at 3:08 PM #

    hey guys…

    i cant’ believe some of you are buying into the “success” of cutcliffe and butch-slap. Between those two teams, who may or may not beat us, they have played 1 quality opponent and are 0-1 (UNX-VT). Miami might be good, but it just shows you that Texax A&M isn’t your daddy’s Texas A&M. Perspective guys, come on.

  23. redfred2 09/29/2008 at 6:29 PM #

    Greywolf, I know some of my stuff is pretty vague, but when I mentioned those teams like Ohio State, So Cal, and etc, I was just TRYING to say that the fans of those pograms probably THOUGHT that they were loaded with talent, but as we’ve seen recently nobody is untouchable. There are teams/programs out there that had much higher expectations than we did for this season who have already suffered much worse losses than we did this past weekend.

    As far the comments about Oblinger/Fowler, I not about to explain or appologize for any of those, EVER.

  24. Greywolf 09/29/2008 at 9:41 PM #

    redfred,
    So what if your stuff is sometimes vague.;-) Sometimes I need to lighten up and I missed a good opportunity with your O/F comment. OK?

    I wasn’t yapping at you about your OSU & SoCal comments. The first games, before the new line-ups get in sync, can produce some surprises ala Mich and App last year. No way App beats Mich. at the end of the season. I’m saying those teams are loaded with athletes. VT lost big against LSU in the season opener last year but turned it around because VT’s program is mature and has quality athletes. That was my point. You can’t compare what one coach does at one school one year with another coach.

  25. Greywolf 09/29/2008 at 9:41 PM #

    redfred,
    So what if your stuff is sometimes vague.;-) Sometimes I need to lighten up and I missed a good opportunity with your O/F comment. OK?

    I wasn’t yapping at you about your OSU & SoCal comments. The first games, before the new line-ups get in sync, can produce some surprises ala Mich and App last year. No way App beats Mich. at the end of the season. I’m saying those teams are loaded with athletes. VT lost big against LSU in the season opener last year but turned it around because VT’s program is mature and has quality athletes. That was my point. You can’t compare what one coach does at one school one year with another coach.

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