41% attrition rate from 2005 & 2006 classes

'08 Football Fans Football Recruiting General95

Here is a good article from Rob Daniels of the Greensboro News & Record that provides some statistical insight into what we all know and are feeling – NC State’s football program is depleted of depth and currently undergoing a major rebuilding project.

Hopefully our fans have begun to realize that we are in a total rebuild mode and potentially several years behind other schools who made coaching changes at the same time we hired TOB.

Neither is this a watershed season in the evolution of Wolfpack football. The program O’Brien inherited from Chuck Amato in December 2006 was on shaky numerical ground. Of the 41 players State signed in 2005 and 2006, 17 are already gone. That 41 percent attrition rate far exceeds the personnel losses sustained by the other three ACC programs that changed administrations at the same time. (North Carolina’s is at 18 percent; Miami has lost nine of 37 players from those classes or 24 percent; and Boston College, which O’Brien left to come to Raleigh, has seen six of 35 signees or 17 percent head elsewhere.)

Additionally, we have a writer from the N&O who takes NC State fans to task over the booing in Carter Finley on Saturday. I am reluctant to tackle this issue with any commentary as this topic is right up Jeff’s alley.

This is not an argument against booing college players. They get the scholarships. They accept the attention. There’s plenty of good, and they have to take the bad with it. Such is life.

The way State had played through the first five quarters of the season, the Pack probably deserved to get booed, as many State teams and quarterbacks have been booed before.

But this wasn’t just another quarterback struggling to complete a pass. Evans grew up sitting in those same stands, the Broughton High grad as much a State fan as anyone who voiced displeasure with his play.

“I love N.C. State football, and I love this team,” Evans said when Wilson was made the starter in August. “I love my teammates, and I love this university. So I’m really going to do anything I can to help this team win football games.”

That may not matter to some, but it should. If there was ever a player State fans were willing to cut a little slack, wouldn’t it be — shouldn’t it be — this one?

SFN Note – We will update this entry later in the day with more commentary on the ‘booing’

'08 Football Fans Football Recruiting General

95 Responses to 41% attrition rate from 2005 & 2006 classes

  1. Greywolf 09/09/2008 at 9:03 PM #

    “Save Glennon! We’ve already had one quarterback almost get killed. In the interest of the health of our future legend and his career as a football player, the redshirt must stay on!”

    Wilson is a Redshirt Freshman. How will Glennon redshirting keep him from a freak “accidental” knee to the head? Our OL, as badly as it played, only allowed 2 sacks in the SC game while SC’s OL gave up 3. And the SC QB was knocked out of the game by a shoulder to the head hit as he was being tackled.

    BTW I see some seem to think the Attrition Rate is the number of injuries attributed to poor OL play. Hint: it’s players leaving the program.

  2. CStanley 09/09/2008 at 9:04 PM #

    BJD95:

    “I don’t boo college players. Period. But I understand the fans’ frustration. Once other schools had a decent amount of film on him, Daniel Evans became unplayable at QB.”

    “And frankly, I think most of the booing came when Evans came back onto the field (rather than going off it), which I interpret mostly as booing the coaching decision to put Evans back on the field.”

    Two great points that I agree with wholeheartedly.

    I’ll say this, I agree with the coaches’ decision to keep the redshirt on Glennon, but God help us if he doesn’t pan out.

  3. Otis 09/09/2008 at 11:52 PM #

    On the whole booing thing, I tend to agree with badgerpack. I think you can boo a discussion or a play and not boo the player. It is hard for some people who are so emotional caught up in a game to keep from vocalizing their disappointment. I say boo the play and cheer the player. And on the whole recruiting tip, I would rather show a home crowd that cares enough to boo, than one that wont show up or do show up yet show no interest in the game on the field (UNX, am looking in your direction). If I were a potential recruit, seeing how many show up and care when the team is down would make me think about how loud they will cheer for good play. I love DE as a representative of my school, but I boo his mistakes. But I also boo myself when I stink up the place when playing a game. I don’t remember where I heard it but “they don’t boo nobodies”

  4. SFW 09/10/2008 at 7:46 AM #

    i booed. it was towards a coaching staff that thought running the same plays with an inept QB would somehow start working even though there was no evidence that it would. it was like they were trying to fit a square peg in a round hole over and over again. i couldn’t take it anymore. sorry daniel felt it was towards him but what a relief it was to see beck come onto the fied no matter what the outcome. and i’m sure the coaching staff wasn’t too happy that tens of thousands of screaming fans were right.

  5. Noah 09/10/2008 at 8:42 AM #

    I think Glennon will be okay. The reports from the fall camp have been positive. It’s just a matter of being able to learn the playbook and take command of the team.

    Sammy Batten had a piece up on WRAL today or yesterday about us having scholarships to give. When we started the year, there was some talk about only giving out maybe 15 or 16 rides. One of the guys inside that I talked to said that we should expect to give out more simply because they knew that there was going to be heavy attrition.

    I expect a class of 25 this year AND next. We have to get that roster back to 85.

  6. vtpackfan 09/10/2008 at 8:44 AM #

    If this hits too close to home then pretend its the guy behind you that this needs to be made loud and clear to.

    A sucky performance by NC States’ Football team does not, repeat, does not reflect poorly on you. What I’m doing right now is typing constructive critism, when people boo loudly and mutter a rath negativity so that those around you can hear, that is destructive. You are either f’d up in the head or an idiot if you can’t recognize the difference.

    These same people act as if when things go right then all is as it should be in the world, this is how I want things in my life to look so I can feel comfortable in my own skin. Strangely they get quiet down (try a “serenity now” for a change.

    Give me a break, freak out that things go successful for this team at all. 41% attrition rate, an opposite coaching philosophy, WTF people. Again, fans make asses of themselves and make an easy target as the real “scapegoat” of the program. All the threads by SFN about the lack of leadership by the AD won’t help bring attention to it when pschyological affected fans steal all the spotlight.

  7. crackdog 09/10/2008 at 10:06 AM #

    vt…. are you all right? You really are starting to come across in a way reminiscent of RoboWolf from the old StateFans message boards.

  8. choppack1 09/10/2008 at 10:07 AM #

    “If I were a potential recruit, seeing how many show up and care when the team is down would make me think about how loud they will cheer for good play.”

    Yea, but if you’re a recruit and you go to one stadium and the folks are booing the qb, coaches – whatever – and if you go to another and they aren’t – which one do you choose?

    I mean, I guess we can hope that recruits are looking at NC State, UVa and UMd – but if they are looking at ECU, WF, UNC, GaTech, well, it certainly doesn’t come off as a positive and fun environment. After all, if players wanted to go to play for boobirds – the Eagles and Phillies would get all the best free agents.

    It’s definitely a chicken/egg thing, but like it is with anything else done in public view, these actions can have unintended consequence. If I was a recruit at the game Saturday evening, I’m not sure how it would play out. I can tell you that if I went to a game and the atmosphere wasn’t as negative, it certainly doesn’t make the case for NC State any stronger.

  9. Girlfriend in a Coma 09/10/2008 at 10:14 AM #

    How would recruiting have been impacted if we had lost to W & M? Does anyone here think we would have won that game had Evans stayed in?

    The coaches had us in a position from which we would have absolutely LOST to a 1-AA team at home if we had stayed with the QB they chose to start the game. Is this also the fans’ fault?

  10. Wulfpack 09/10/2008 at 10:30 AM #

    ^It absolutely is not the fan’s fault.

    All I know is our team is bad and a bad team will make any coaching staff look bad. Look at the example of the Panthers last season compared to this season. The real question is whether or not the coaching staff should be held accountable at this point for what looks to be an weak team, taking into consideration the program’s recent history and rash of injuries. I don’t think so. But yes, at least to my layman’s eye, the insistence of staying with Evans as the game progressed was baffling to say the least.

  11. Daily Update 09/10/2008 at 10:58 AM #

    Noah: We will definitely take a full class this year. We have the scholarships available.

  12. choppack1 09/10/2008 at 11:12 AM #

    Fault has nothing to do with it. It’s all about perception. Sometimes right and wrong, “fault” have nothing to w/ it. Just as the fans’ response to the futility on the field was an emotional reaction to a futility over the last few games that was hard to believe – the recruit will likely have an emotional reaction to the booing – I don’t think it will be positive.

    Like I said, it’s a chicken and egg thing – and I understand why folks were booing.

    I’ll also say this, if TOB changed QBs because of the fans booing him, he’s not a very good or smart coach.

    It’s pretty simple why Evans started last week. It’s also pretty simple as to why he was yanked. If Evans had never produced for us, I wouldn’t defend the decision to start him Saturday – and to start him in the future.

    As I mentioned earlier, Beck has never led us to a victory over division 1A opponent. He’s out of shape, he doesn’t follow the gameplan. If you are trying to motivate and teach 80+ young men, you don’t want to reward those behavoirs.

    If Beck has an injury, that changes things, but to me, Beck showing up out of shape is the equivalent of a manager or team leader showing up to work hungover or not meeting the dress code.

  13. b 09/10/2008 at 12:00 PM #

    I think any player (or any performer for that matter) worth his salt would rather hear a boo than silence. Silence exhibits hopelessness and boredom, boo exhibits disgust and misplaced passion. Boo can motivate, silence is heartbreaking. Boo at least indicates you know I was there, silence means you can’t wait to forget me.

  14. redfred2 09/10/2008 at 12:11 PM #

    It shouldn’t take soooo long to make a change in a situation like that, it only fuels the fire and the negativity in the stands is naturally going to build until it boils over. I mean, it’s not like Evans is a MLB pitcher and isn’t allowed to return later in the game, say if Beck should come off the bench playing even worse then he is. Evans may actually be able to settle down and get his wits together, come back in and be more poised in a situation like that.
    Works in BB.

    The problem is that the/ANY fans get frustrated and sick and tired of seeing the same thing being tried over and over again, without any noticeable improvement or innovation being implemented from one week to the next.

  15. SEAT.5.F.2 09/10/2008 at 1:04 PM #

    It’s pretty frustrating to listen to people boo thinking it’s going to make somebody better,” O’Brien said Tuesday “By booing somebody, you don’t make them better.”

    O’Brien went on to talk about how the boos could be a turnoff to potential recruits who attend games.

    “I think it was a bad situation, and hopefully we’ll be smarter than that in the future,” O’Brien said.

    – Yeah, what he said.

  16. Trip 09/10/2008 at 1:16 PM #

    I agree with TOB, but… I still think that it was acceptable in that game because you could have changed what we were booing (unacceptable QB play) very easily. If Beck starts to mess up just as much as Evans (Not the case yet) I’ll gladly sit in the stands cheering the team on regardless of the score as I know they’re trying their best.

  17. Girlfriend in a Coma 09/10/2008 at 1:44 PM #

    We couldn’t get an f’ing first down against f’ing William and Mary. The booing wasn’t trying to make Evans better. It was trying to send the message to the coaches that he obviously should not be on the field. Evans — 8 possesions – 1 int (and 2 more balls hit W & M defenders in the hands) and 7 three and outs. (!) Against William and Mary!? What does he expect 56,000+ people who have spent several thousand each to be there to do? Oh, and Beck came in and absolutely lit it up. Oops.

    This reasoning that TOB attributes to fans trying to make Evans better resonates with some stupid stuff Amato and Herb had to say toward the end. Not good.

  18. pakfanistan 09/10/2008 at 2:12 PM #

    Lunatic fringe alert….

  19. Ismael 09/10/2008 at 2:58 PM #

    I actually don’t think i ever boo’d an NCstate team when i used to go to games. Yeah, i never did (reminiscing). Usually it was a profanity-heavy diatribe…however i have mellowed. It’s hard to fault fans for booing though, you get wrapped up into it, you know that we are close to doing something.

    Whatever TOB says i’m good with right now.

    Glennon – i watched/heard an interview with TOB earlier this week and some reporter asked about Glennon (yeah, something i watched), and TOB sat up, got this smile on his face, twinkle in his eye and said: “that kid throws a good ball” matter-of-factly. I really think TOB wants to play him but he’s got some acupuncture needle jabbed in his head to not make him do it. So Noah, i think Glennon is gonna be great, God willing.

    Has anyone heard anything about Desmond Roberts, Mattes, Andrew Wallace? like about how they are progressing etc.

  20. Noah 09/11/2008 at 8:11 AM #

    The only OL I’ve heard about was Zach Allen, who had really turned some heads in fall camp.

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