40,000 in 2017

In light of the fact that so many of our readers are pushing for this NC State Athletics blog to NOT discuss NC State Athletics, we wanted to try to find something of interest.

So, we went back into our archives and found this interesting story from Technician that will bring us up to speed on developments on campus.

Private developers have plans to bring a 10-story apartment complex and parking deck west of the N.C. State campus to aid the growing student population.

(Tim) Luckadoo has no doubt as to why Capstone Development is choosing to build student housing facilities near the University.

“I think a lot of developers are looking at N.C. State as a growing university,” Luckadoo said. “Enrollment is expected to grow to 40,000 by 2017, so it’s an attractive market opposed to other schools that aren’t growing as fast as we are.”

“It is unusual in the college market to build a high-rise building these days,” Luckadoo said. “We have plans to knock down Lee and Sullivan. Oklahoma State took down some high-rises a few years ago, and UNC-Charlotte is thinking about taking down their high-rises.”

Here is an additional question that would be interesting to discuss here — is the news that NC State is projected to grow to 40,000 students by 2017 a ‘positive’ story or a ‘negative’ story?

Since other articles that do nothing but share factual information and reality-based statistics are deemed “negative” by many of our readers and many adminstrators at NC State, I’d be curious to know the read on this development?

In 2006, Princeton Review ranked NC State as the second-best value among the nation’s public colleges and universities The same year, U.S. News & World Report ranked NC State 5th in Best Overall University Value among public universities. In 2007, Kiplinger’s Personal Finance placed NC State as the 12th best value among the nation’s colleges and universities.

Is this ‘positive’ or ‘negative’?

I just want to be clear on what we can and we cannot discuss out here on the internet? Since both sets of rankings are based on actual events happening in the world, what makes one set of rankings more ‘positive’ and one set more ‘negative’?

If you were an old-school Carolina fan who hated NC State…which set of rankings would you consider postiive and which set are negative?

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51 Responses to 40,000 in 2017

  1. PackBacker001 04/23/2008 at 1:38 PM #

    It looks like we have yet another schism in the Wolfpack faithful. If we were tops in the league in ANYTHING, most of these issues would go away. I understand that some get tired of seeing negativity, especially if that is all that we have to look at. Yes, nothing indicates that we have any change to look forward to. But that doesn’t mean that we should’t build the case on here for some action.

    The fact that nothing can be done about the current administration does not mean that we should not continue to be vocal about it. Silence is the same as acquiescence in this case. I’m willing to bet everyone on this blog is tired of NC State’s middling (or worse) performances.

  2. StateFans 04/23/2008 at 1:52 PM #

    40,000 students is a lot of students.

    Do you think that NC State can maintain our quality of education and selectivity if we focus on growing to be so large?

  3. packbackr04 04/23/2008 at 1:56 PM #

    dissent is needed in this country if we are ever to be great.

  4. Wulfpack 04/23/2008 at 1:56 PM #

    Commuter school label here we come!

  5. StateFans 04/23/2008 at 1:59 PM #

    ^ That’s kinda what I feel.

    ESPECIALLY with our leaders lack of attention to the student experience on camps (bad social enviornment and lack of desire to win in Athletics).

    A case could be made that we are becoming the University of Houston or University of South Florida as opposed to making a step towards that next tier of big schools in the SEC, Big Ten or Big 12.

  6. hoyawolf 04/23/2008 at 2:00 PM #

    does anyone really think that state has high quality education? compared to what – appalachian state? it is definitely not in the same academic league as carolina or virginia or michigan…is it a solid value? absolutely. did i learn a lot as an undergraduate there and enjoy myself? of course i did. however, i think we have a long way to go and our administration seems hell bent on growing our quantity vs. quality.

  7. anonimus 04/23/2008 at 2:10 PM #

    I assume the motivation for this post is from some reader backlash over the recent articles discussing the (non)achievements of Lee Fowler? Sometimes the truth hurts and avoidance of truth brings no change.

    SFN: not just the reader comments…but also brought on by the subjective application of feelings like “negative” applied to neutral fact-sets by people at NC State.

    hoyawolf, I would submit the quality of education probably varies by curriculum and degree at any university. Do we know what criteria defines “quality” in these instances?

    I do agree that the commuter label is a possibility if said trends continue.

  8. Dr. BadgerPack 04/23/2008 at 2:11 PM #

    I got a BS in 1999 at State in chemistry. I was prepared to compete- and compete WELL- at 2 Big 10 schools both ranked in the top 10 in Organic Chemistry as far as graduate programs were concerned. A lot of “academic rankings and reputations” stem from the graduate programs anyway. Especially in the sciences, since the undergraduate curriculum is pretty standard across the board due to the “Fill-in-the-blank” Societies that mandate what constitutes a chemistry, etc. major. The caliber of undergraduate students by and large is pretty similar. I certainly didn’t walk away from either Big 10 campus saying “WOW, these kids are so much better than my peers at State.”

    On a different note, the growth to 40,000 students to me says “bigger classes.” As a soon-to-be professor, I will tend to stay away from jobs where you teach 2-300 kids at a pop; they’re really hard to teach well in the sciences- or at least as well as I would like to. For example, in large classes you can’t test material the way you want- you actually HAVE to consider “gradability (new word!)” of the exam, lest you have 4-5 ticked off grad students grading for 30 hours.

  9. melikesncsu 04/23/2008 at 2:13 PM #

    “does anyone really think that state has high quality education?”

    Yes, absolutely. Not in the same league as Carolina or Virginia? If you want to major in journalism, or many social sciences then you are likely correct. If you want to study biosciences, engineering, agriculture, etc. you can’t do better than NCSU in the state and can’t do a whole lot better in the country. I actually got my degree in a social science from NCSU, one that is not offered at UNC, and this degree from NCSU is well respected in the field.

    I think you have been reading too much N&O, hoyawolf.

  10. mwcric 04/23/2008 at 2:18 PM #

    Gentlemen,
    Please relax. What’s with the bitterness and vitriol when readers – many of them loyal readers – post a comment that takes issue on some level with one of your stories? Obviously you have a pretty big fan base, and with readerships that large you won’t necessarily have 100 percent agreement in everything you post. Is that so bad? Would you really want that? The invective you reply to some of the comments serves only to discourage thoughtful discussion, and potentially reduce readership. If so many readers stated their boredom with their perceived Fowler-bashing, for example, why couldn’t that be addressed objectively? They obviously look to StateFansNation for excellent commentary and keen insight – why bash them for sharing their opinion about a blog that is clearly important and meaningful to them? Savaging those who fall out of step with your medium’s view comes dangerously close to putting you in traditional media territory – or even worse, Lee Fowler territory. Your blog entries are a tremendous credit to the world of online alternative media. I would humbly suggest, for what it’s worth, that you maintain the same high standard in your rapport with your audience/fan base.

  11. packof81 04/23/2008 at 2:19 PM #

    “Commuter school label here we come!”

    We’ve been there a long time. Many students were commuters in the 70s. That hasn’t changed.

    “… it is definitely not in the same academic league as carolina or virginia or michigan …”

    That is true if you are talking about liberal arts. But NCSU is the principal technological institution in NC. It would be more appropriate to compare NCSU to other similar institutions like Ohio State, Va Tech, Ga. Tech, etc..

    If you’re just talking about undergraduate engineering education, it is certainly appropriate to compare NCSU with UNC-Charlotte. Based on all I’ve seen and heard, I’d have to give Charlotte the edge.

  12. SaccoV 04/23/2008 at 2:22 PM #

    I got a B.A. in English in 1998 and I’ll put my degree to anyone’s (outside an Ivy school) in the same field. The real problem is that the institution doesn’t reflect the passion of the alumni, who put so much of themselves (money, time, education) into the institution. This is NOT a good thing for the university, but better proof that our university’s standards are lowering by the moment. Also, this nugget cements what others have said about Oblinger and the BOT hoping to turn it into a commuter school, which is a travesty. The university is going to grow naturally as a result of an increased availability of eligible students, but this type of growth seems unnatural.

  13. BoKnowsNCS71 04/23/2008 at 2:26 PM #

    Probably a lot of things relate to attitude and focusing on where the lemonade might be instead of the lemons.

    On a positive note, we have a football program moving toward improvement (if the fans will be patient) and we have a basketball Coach whose honeymoon grace period ended when the team exceeded expectations during his first year.

    Whether that hire was as smart a decision as we were led to believe is still up for debate among some but the bottom line is that he wants what we want just as much — a great team with more wins.

    The Baseball team is second in its Division but about 5th overall. Not great but then we should have built facilities for Ray Tanner instead of giving him a reason to go to the Gamecocks.

    It’s tough at times to be a State fan. The good times are like no place else. The bad times seem to drop like bombshells like when Sheridan retired at the peak of his success. But good times or bad times – we are all stronger for being NC State alums and fans.

  14. PackBacker001 04/23/2008 at 2:30 PM #

    I’m not sure that 40K is such a bad thing. Ohio State has over 52K just on its Columbus campus. It’s rated in the top 20 public universities and is well respected in many fields.

    Of course, people from all over the country want to go there because they are very successful in athletics on a national level. We would just have people in NC and the bordering states coming in. That would lend more of a commuter college feel to it.

  15. TopTenPack 04/23/2008 at 2:47 PM #

    NC State sees itself as a service organization for the state of North Carolina. I once had a conversation with Chancellor Fox and she was worried that admission standards had gotten to high. Remember, the UNC system had to force NC State to have a admission system at the end of the 70s. Before that, everybody got in, but not everybody got out. If you wanted to pay tuition, NC State would give you a chance.

    I have a Computer Science degree and have never felt that my education at NC State has hindered me. Sure, it might be nice to have Standford or MIT on the resume, but I have been able to hold my own in that crowd.

    NC State provides a great education for a great price. If NC State was a car, what would it be?

  16. PackHooligan 04/23/2008 at 2:48 PM #

    I don’t know what you are seeing and hearing packof81, but to compare the engineering programs of ncsu and charlotte is a big stretch, imo. I do know that charlotte is making efforts to improve their program, but I do not see how they are on the same level as NCSU. Although, I am of the opinion that getting a great education is more up to the student, since most of the material being taught anywhere is, more or less, the same.

    As an ’02 graduate in chemical engineering who went onto graduate school at a top 20 program, I felt that I was on par or better with the other students in my class when it came to the core chemical engineering subjects. I feel that the chemical engineering program at NCSU is very geared towards producing practicing engineers (and does that with the best of them). What the program is lacking is the foresight to encourage its students to pursue graduate research. I think the program should put more effort into encouraging undergraduates to do research and to take classes that will give them a leg up in graduate school (numerical methods, higher level statistics, computer programming, etc). I do not know if this is representative of the other programs at NCSU, I expect that it is though. It just seems like the leaders at NCSU never quite grasp the big picture, or see that one extra step they could take that would move the university to another level, whether it is academically or athletically. They would rather march in place than take a step forward and risk a small slip.

  17. McPete 04/23/2008 at 3:04 PM #

    man, i didn’t know that as a former commuter myself i was such a second class citizen at nc state. i got the same education, just didn’t have mommy and daddy paying my bills so i could live on campus. what is the problem with the largest public university in this state offering lots of people with diverse backgrounds a chance at higher education?

  18. Wulfpack 04/23/2008 at 3:05 PM #

    I would just like to say that mwcric’s post is brilliant on many levels. What a bore this blog would be if we all held the same opinions…

  19. Wolf-n-Atl 04/23/2008 at 3:30 PM #

    University of Florida has around 40,000 students and its reputation has not diminished. I think it all depends on if our standards are lowered as we increase the enrollment or if they lower dramatically. Another factor will be class size. If you are reducing the teacher/student ratio then the quality of the education suffers.

  20. newt 04/23/2008 at 3:40 PM #

    Actually, one could make a reasonable argument that NC State excels at liberal arts education, like English, and is mediocre in scientific degrees, such as physics or engineering.

  21. tooyoungtoremember 04/23/2008 at 3:55 PM #

    The ad at the bottom just popped up as U of Phoenix Online. Classic.

    As the state university of North Carolina, NC State should be educating the masses. North Carolina’s population is growing, so the number of people who have access to in state higher education should grow as well. There’s nothing wrong with increasing enrollment, unless it’s done the wrong way. Hire enough extra faculty and professional instructors, build another building or two, and everything’s golden. Part of that depends on if the state government fully supports the expansion and if they’ll write it into the budget. Hopefully Oblinger and the BOT are up to the task, but I have my doubts.

  22. StateFans 04/23/2008 at 4:20 PM #

    College of Management and Dean Ira Weiss deserve a special mention for a piece of campus that is really kicking ass.

  23. packpigskinfan23 04/23/2008 at 4:39 PM #

    I would like to state that although many here might find the Parks Recreation and Tourism management degree a joke, NCState has consistently been a leader in this field. I have had many internships “recruit” me just because of being an NCSU student.

  24. wufpup76 04/23/2008 at 4:44 PM #

    Nice, thoughtful post – mwcric …

    I haven’t posted a comment here on my favorite website since the end of the college basketball season but have still visited almost daily … A lot of the entries here on SFN since the bball season ended have been about our, ahem, “athletics department” (if that’s what you want to call it) and they (the entries) are very relevant given that we are in between our two major revenue sports

    I have not offered any comments b/c the entries were right on target and heard loud and clear and there was little value or insight that I could add w/ a comment (not that any of my comments are more than just mindless drivel anyway)

    Anyway, point being is that I support SFN and their authors in their neverending legitimate quest to help us generate changes for the better in our “athletics department” … that said, it’s hard not to feel depressed and develop a “SSDD” mentality when you feel so helpless to change it all … That’s not SFN’s fault, it’s the leadership at NC State … To borrow from an earlier post, the drum that SFN is banging does need to be banged, consistently and loudly, but I can certainly see why it would become tiresome and depressing … It is depressing, after all 🙁

    This doesn’t change my view of SFN as the place to come for comradierie and discussion about NC State athletics, nor does it diminish my love for NC State 🙂

    Please forgive my meandering post … as for the specific topic discussed in this entry – I think a higher enrollment is an overall positive, though I’m unsure about how it will affect our “athletics” … I guess we’ll see 😉

  25. buttPACKer 04/23/2008 at 5:06 PM #

    . . . the new NC State website’s pretty kickass–if nothing else–right?

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