Billy Packer – Patron Saint of Objectivity

It was the rarest of rarities (aside from Wolfpack championships) – a long profile in Sunday’s N&O that seemed tailor made for me. There are tons of great anecdotes (don’t miss the “shard grabbing” story) – read the whole thing. But the overriding theme reinforces what I like about Packer – his near slavish devotion to the pursuit of complete objectivity:

“What I’ve always loved is the competition of being able to go out there and say what I see and to be objective, but that in turn obviously annoys people, because 50 percent of them, that objectivity is not gonna be what they want to hear,” Packer says.

As bloggers, we here at SFN have heard that more than a time or two. And maybe it is specific to me – blogger, cynical NC State fan, engineering graduate – but I don’t want a stinking cheerleader or yes man analyzing the game. Just call it like you see it, and be fair. The truth is hard to take sometimes, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t hear it. And, when you do hear intelligent honesty you should be appreciative; like Jeff shared almost two years ago when he proclaimed that “Billy Packer kicks ass” for some comments highlighted in that link.

I can remember Packer’s call of NC State’s ACC Tournament loss to Miami just two weeks ago. Thousands of words have been typed and spoken in ponderance of the absolute suckdom of 2007-08 Wolfpack hoops, but Packer cut to the quick with a few tersely delivered observations. The body language on the court and bench was bad. Miami clearly wanted the win more than the Pack, despite needing it less. Although this is paraphrased, I’m putting it in quotes for emphasis:

The ball spends too much time in the hands of players that are no threat whatsoever. And then the other guys stand around watching the player with the ball. Pretty easy to defend against that.

Packer went on to note that, while “obviously you wouldn’t want to structure your program this way long-term” – perhaps the only way to get results out of the talent that State had would have been to run the offense through McCauley, a player “who really likes to pass and is good at it.”

Now tell me – who else had the insight and the stones to come out and say things like that this season? Nobody.

What other non-partisan would study and break down an irrelevant, flailing team like NC State at that level, in preparation for a Thursday afternoon preliminary round ACCT game? Again, nobody. Certainly not a guy who has enough juice to call the Final Four for as long as I can remember.

What other non-partisan would have the stones to proclaim this event as the worst call in NCAA Tournament history while in the heat of the moment? Finally, nobody.

And there are dumb asses who really want him off the air?

Now, I will get off my soapbox and close with a lighter anecdote – one that involves our beloved James T. Valvano. One that I had never heard before:

Contrary to his image of inflexibility, the natural contrarian allows that he’s had a few regrets. He can think of two occasions on which he favored one side, not that it was immediately obvious on the air, but in his own mind, where most Packer performances are ultimately judged.

The first came in 1975, when he worked his first championship game and John Wooden was coaching his last for UCLA. He felt himself pulling for Wooden.

The second came a dozen years later, when he was hoping that injury-depleted Wake Forest could cling to a late lead against a superior N.C. State team. The thought bothered him so much, he says, that several days after NCSU’s overtime victory he told Wolfpack coach Jim Valvano he had been rooting for Wake. Valvano’s response, according to Packer: “Don’t tell anybody at State, but so was I.”

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

Media NCS Basketball

66 Responses to Billy Packer – Patron Saint of Objectivity

  1. StateFans 03/25/2008 at 11:17 AM #

    ^ Great point. This is direct result of three traits of Packer that most announcers do not share:

    (1) Objectivity

    (2) Unique ability to think for himself

    (3) Extreme preparation and knowledge of the game

    This is what makes him so good.

  2. howlie 03/25/2008 at 11:18 AM #

    Speaking of ‘speaking his mind,’ wasn’t it he and Vitale who–frustrated at trying to get through the crowd at Cameron–said there were “too many dykes and lesbians in the way?”

    Billy, gettin’ real!

  3. Mr.wolfpack90 03/25/2008 at 11:26 AM #

    I miss the golden era of:packer,mcguire and enberg when the ncaa games were on nbc and those three did the games.It was a joy to watch and listen,as well when he was with Jim thacker. Billy Packer gives us a straight opinion,honest to him what he thinks and perceives he saw. Dick Vitale i think is what is bad for college basketball.Everyone is great all the teams are dandy and he is never quiet. Packer lets the game flow and gives his insites.But he defends situations when he feels something is wrong like how the nba has hurt college ball or if dean smith was ejected from the 1991 semis vs kansas.
    But to say during the unc vs vtech game that t hanesborough was the best palyer in acc history goes back to what the article states”he can’t remember a telecast three days ago”. Overall he is a great champion of the college game.

  4. Ed89 03/25/2008 at 11:35 AM #

    ^^^Valvano had sad previously the team that would win would have the most dunks. NCSU – 2, Houston – 1.

    Wasn’t that Guy Lewis who said that??? Have I been wrong all these years???

    wufpaxno1, I recall the same comments and immediately started liking Packer even more than before.

  5. wufpup76 03/25/2008 at 11:36 AM #

    I’m in absolute agreement w/ the author and those who enjoy a Packer called game …

    In my mind, if you have multiple factions of different fanbases complaining about you “hating” on their respective programs then you’re probably calling things objectively and fairly … Those who can’t or won’t see things objectively about their team are the first to complain b/c they just don’t want to hear any perceived “negatives” about their teams

    Jim Nantz (even though he’s a Houston grad 🙂 ) and Packer are the best announcer team out there and it’s not close to me … Each knows their college basketball history from programs all over the nation and you can tell they each do their homework prior to calling anygame … There’s a different feel to a Nantz-Packer called game … Sure, they call most of the “big” games, but you actually get to watch the game and maybe pick up a couple of things that you may have otherwise missed … You can also tell that they respect each team and every game they call and they treat each telecast as professionals …

    This is the exact opposite of Mike Patrick and Dick Vitale (and many other announcing teams) who pick out one or two storylines and drone on and on about them for the entire game w/out any deference to what’s happening on the court … What’s worst is that you can DEFINITELY tell who they are rooting for (Doooook or Chapel Hill just maybe?) as a game goes on and the storylines come off as contrived and biased … I like that Doookie V has enthusiasm and much love for the college game, but it is entirely misplaced at times especially w/ preference to certain teams IMHO

    There are a few others that I enjoy (enjoyed) … I agree w/ the poster above who mentioned Brad Daughtery – I did like him … Even though he went to Chapel Hill you could tell that always tried to be extremely objective and had a lot of fun w/ his telecasts … He is a North Carolina country boy at heart and it showed when he called games … He’s doing Nascar stuff on Espn now, funny 🙂 … Also, Gus Johnson and Kevin Harlan are always fun for me when they’re doing play-by-play, and I thought Bob Wenzel did a good color job over the weekend during the Doook telecast (A color guy actually giving props to Doooook opponents? – You don’t say!!!) … I like Dan Bonner, too … that is all 🙂

  6. haze 03/25/2008 at 11:51 AM #

    Here, here on Packer.

    I’ll also add that, though it was a short run, Valvano was an impressive color analyst as well. Always learned something when he was doing a game.

    As for Vitale, I’m torn on his overall effect. The diaper dandy, UNC/Duke stuff is distracting nonsense and it has definitely set a sad standard for analysts generally. However, Dick loves the game and the kids and the V Foundation and, in those respects, is as good an ambassador as you’ll find for the game of college basketball. I have a feeling that ESPN’s dedication to the V Foundation is in no small part due to Vitale.

  7. Wulfpack 03/25/2008 at 12:12 PM #

    “it just makes you so mad at ESPN for what they have done to the game.”

    I may be an outcast but I love the way ESPN has promoted the college game and made available countless games for viewers to watch. I think their journalistic integrity is a joke — often times blurring the lines between reporting news and making the news. But ESPN’s production, minus the tools calling the games, is something I very much enjoy as a college basketball fan.

  8. BoKnowsNCS71 03/25/2008 at 12:16 PM #

    I’ve always liked Billy Packer going back to those Packer and Thacker games on a black and white TV. But then again, I also liked Howard Cosell who would “tell it like it is.” Good announcing is such a wonderful contribution to sports. For example, football would not be the same or as memorable without having had Keith Jackson.

    I’m not sure why some younger local radio people seem to have a problem with Billy but that’s part of the change of egos as time passes. You have to diss and knock off the top dog n order to move up. Sometimes, they don’t see that they often have a major lack of objectivity and lack the very traits they try to hang on some of the greats.

    As for Coach V, I have a lot of respect for his knowledge, his accomplishments and the wonderful things he does off camera. But on camera he is becoming a comic view of himself “BAyyyy–beeeee” Surely, his wife must slap him silly if he behaves like that at home.

  9. packpower 03/25/2008 at 12:22 PM #

    Five years ago, the four best color guys in college hoops were Packer, Bilas, Daugherty and Gannon. Now that Daugherty and Gannon no longer call college hoops, Packer and Bilas are the only two really good color guys in basketball. Vitale was very good 20-25 years ago but he has regressed.

    BTW, I don’t care for Wenzel’s style (or Bill Rafferty’s style) but he was an assistant coach at Duke in the late 1970s. He then went to build Jacksonville into a decent program in the mid-1980s and coached Rutgers in the 1990s. He was also a college teammate of Valvano.

  10. wufpup76 03/25/2008 at 12:40 PM #

    I agree w/ Wulfpack’s post about ESPN … they do a great job making games accessible to viewers and cover so many that you would never have seen in the past … Unfortunately for me, their production and announcing teams can be extremely infuriating

    Also – IIRC, Gannon was/is doing play-by-play for Espn w/ Stephen Bardo as color on Espn’s late night Monday WCC games (Big Monday) this season … I believe he’s still doing that, along w/ figure skating, etc. – though unsure

    Several folks have mentioned Bilas, and I agree that he is very insightful and does a good job for the most part … It’s only when his Elitist Doook side rears it’s ugly head that I have a problem w/ him … He can be extremely dismissive of teams that don’t play in the BCS / power conferences … I really dislike elitist tendencies (maybe that’s b/c I’m a State fan and all I hear about are how Doook and Chapel Hill are college basketball’s elite 🙂 )

  11. ChuckAllYall 03/25/2008 at 12:50 PM #

    I’ve always liked Bill “Send it in Jerome” Raftery. His schtick still makes me laugh, unlike Vitale whose voice grates on me like the songs my girlfriend listens to on G 105. I do respect Vitale for his work and promotion of the V Foundation, but can’t say I missed his non-stop hyperbole when he was out following surgery this year.

    Especially like when Raftery is teamed up with Bilas and McDonough, they really play off each other well.

    I get truly pissed whenever I see/hear Mike Patrick on t.v., even more so when it’s a Duke game. He seems to think game prep consists of reading the paper that morning and reemphasizing some tired story line that has been played out weeks before. Sorry…. I’ll stop, I’m starting to get annoyed just typing about him.

  12. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 03/25/2008 at 1:10 PM #

    I have one question for Billy Packer. Are you still good friends with Mr. Cash?

  13. howlie 03/25/2008 at 1:43 PM #

    Speaking of Gannon, he always bothered me as a basketball announcer. Though I love him as a player and person, I would expect that someone who experienced a national championship would be animated on TV. In comparison to Packer, he always seemed to be trying way too hard to ‘maintain decorum’ and to to out of his way to remain “neutral” and to share everything politically correct.

    I love Barkley and Packer because they DO share their opinions–which I sometimes disagree with. However, a Stu Scott makes me want to puke with his over-the-top promoting and near-taunting of anyone who is a non-tawhell.

  14. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 03/25/2008 at 2:14 PM #

    Isn’t Gannon a play-by-play announcer? Packer is a commentator so it would be more fair to compare Gannon to Nance. I like listening to Gannon in various sports but I think the PGA is the best fit for him.

  15. RAWFS 03/25/2008 at 2:27 PM #

    I searched high and low for a Billy Packer Mr. Cash commercial, but all I could come up with was Bonecrusher Smith’s edition.

  16. primacyone 03/25/2008 at 2:31 PM #

    For some reason I always remember him calling he Duke/NCSU at Cameron where Ced Simmons went off for 28. Ced was going off for the first 25 minutes of the game, then all of sudden we stopped throwing the ball to him. Packer kept saying something like:

    “how can you not throw the ball down low to Simmons. I’m telling you he is not an ordinary player. You’ve got to let him touch the ball every time down the court. Why would you not throw him the ball now? It’s worked for 2/3rd’s of the game.”

  17. Trip 03/25/2008 at 2:41 PM #

    Speaking of announcers… What about Gary Hahn? While he’s obviously biased as he’s being paid by NC State, i’ve always enjoyed listening to him over the radio… there have been a few games with certain tv announcers that I would either turn the tv off and just listen to the game or turn the sound off and listen to Gary even with a slight delay. I’ve listened to some other team’s play-by-play announcers and Gary is one of the best.

  18. StateofthePack 03/25/2008 at 2:45 PM #

    Billy Packer, Mike Patrick, and Dan Bonner are as much in the fabric of the ACC as the teams and coaches. Those three have been in the forefront of commentating as long as I can remember. More so Packer and Bonner because of Mike Patrick’s NFL work. Long live the day of Saturday triple headers on Raycom with Mike Cameron’s pregame show on the scene of one of that day’s games. Pure basketball. Bucky Waters, Len Elmore, and others would occasionally do games but those stick out to me. This was before Mike Hogewood’s appearance on the scene in the early 90’s. Just hearing Packer or Bonner makes me think back to the good ol days when we were a factor. ACC basketball will have a void to fill when those 2 no longer do games. I also find both of them fair and impartial toward their respective alma maters (WF & UVA).

    Mike Patrick has gone down hill or either caved into the ESPN hype of the blue universe. Has he suffered from any kind of medical issues, other than his heart surgery a few years back. He is a shell of his former self. In much the same way as Mike Gottfried who used to do the Sat. nite fball game of the week with Ron Franklin. It seems those two were great, then bam, the next year Gottfried couldn’t put 2 sentences together without stumbling all over himself.

    Anybody with any knowledge of that?

  19. BoKnowsNCS71 03/25/2008 at 4:17 PM #

    Memories. Don’t forget Gary Dornburg on WPTF radio. I had the pleasure of meeting him and being on a show one time and he was just a classie guy and a great voice of the Wolfpack. I think his buddy at times was Wally Ausley? (sp?)

  20. b 03/25/2008 at 4:20 PM #

    Rafftery is great. I’d rate him a close second to Packer. I agree he and Bilas is like the MNF dynamic, two knowledgeable color guys with different delivery and a PbP who doesn’t get in their way. Patrick is a joke at this point, which is sad because he was one of the better PbP’s in his younger years. Nantz is great, but he is the reserved sort, so I prefer Packer with Musberger. Musberger’s excited tones counter Packer’s professional calm perfectly.

    Mike Gottfried is like a an absent-minded professorial coach, he knows what he speaks of, but frequently tangles words or confuses names. Bill Curry is a great color man for CF.

  21. packpowerfan 03/25/2008 at 5:38 PM #

    I think Gary Hahn is one of the best non-biased, school sponsoring commentators. Let’s compare Hahn to Woody Durham. Any time I’ve ever been forced to listen to Durham and his pathetic excuse for commentary (back when I couldn’t get the AM broadcasts of State/UNC games), I just want to punch him in the mouth. Granted, he is paid by UNC to call those games, just as Hahn calls specifically for State. However, when you listen to Gary call a game, he tells it like it is. He doesn’t get caught up in the “oh so-and-so is amazing blah blah blah”, like Woody does with Travel Hopsbrough. Instead, he gets right to the nitty gritty. A few years ago, Gary came and spoke one Sunday to our church congregation; and it was one of the best “sermons” I’ve ever heard (Yes, he plugged our Wolfpack…in a church full of Hole Fans!). Great guy and great commentator. My radio dial just wouldn’t be the same without him.

  22. turfpack 03/25/2008 at 5:44 PM #

    I really miss and enjoyed GARY DORNBURG sports talk show in the evenings( I fell blessed for that memory-GARY WAS A GREAT GUY.)He actually had BILLY PACKER on his show a couple times.I have always like BILLY -Didn’t always agree with him on things, but he knows basketball. I was wondering the other day what GARY DORNBURG would have thought about the mess STATE has been the last 15yrs- He really loved NCSU.

  23. Texpack 03/25/2008 at 5:55 PM #

    Wally Ausley teamed with Bill Jackson on Wolfpack broadcasts before Bill Jackson died. Gary Dornburg had done some third man on the broadcast team work with the two of them and stepped in seamlessly when Bill Jackson passed away. (I’m showing my advanced age with this entry.)

  24. highstick 03/25/2008 at 6:22 PM #

    Wufpup, Gus Johnson that played for the Baltimore Bullets???? If so, I must have missed out on him doing the games. If its the same Gus, though, I really used to enjoy watching him with the Bullets with Earl Monroe and Wes Unseld.

    Also someone mentioned something about Mark Packer not liking Billy? Is that for real? I’ve always like Billy for exactly the same reasons that have been listed as well as disliked him at time as being stubborn. Mark drives me up the wall though, but he’s nowhere as knoweledgeable as Billy. His program is just a “shouting match” and I can’t listen too it very often because of that.

    Texpack, welcome to the “Old Mans” club!

  25. For85 03/25/2008 at 10:22 PM #

    Man, you guys remember more about announcers and color men and the like than I do about my four years on campus camping out for tickets and seeing games at reynolds.

    I must’ve killed those brain cells along the way because I remember some of the great games from 80-85 but almost nothing about who announced them.

    I’d take Billy Packer over a host of the worthless tv guys we get these days though. I routinely watch the games on tv and listen to gary on the radio at the same time.

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