A View from the Cheap Seats

Ya’ll know this is all our fault – mine and yours – right?

It’s simple, really. There is a profound dichotomy to the average State fan, a great paradox that makes each of us our own worst enemy: we are intensely loyal…to a fault. As long as we continue to feed this monster, improvement won’t come easy.

We’ve not only allowed the current state to subsist, but even more damnably, we’ve propagated it by donating millions to convert rhetoric into reality. Our administration doesn’t have to be proactive because we’re still giving it our money at record pace.

Make no mistake, I’m pointing at myself here. I’m four years from having my LTRs paid off and I’m unwilling to sacrifice my Section 30 seats and tailgating with my friends to force sweeping changes like many of you did once we grew weary of Mike O’Cain (although I’m quite certain an empty building wouldn’t have gotten Herb Sendek removed in 2001).

We’re a different culture than we were a decade ago, when the discontent and dwindling faith with O’Cain was evidenced by the increasing lack of fan support at Carter-Finley over his final few seasons. Not only was he not beating Carolina, we were averaging 6,648 fewer fans total (note that, like now, Kenan Stadium had a larger capacity). But what should have been more troubling was the fact that with a lower percent capacity, State was averaging 1,488 more empty seats than Carolina, which realistic or not, is the benchmark against which we measure success, right?

At that time, we had not been clamoring for 10-win seasons or New Year’s Day bowls – seven wins each season and home wins over Carolina would no doubt have satisfied a large majority of us at that time. But what O’Cain couldn’t do with seven-win seasons was fill the stadium to capacity each week and increase WPC membership (revenue). As a result, he was unable to create the necessary demand to drive up ticket prices, much less convince boosters to open their pockets to support the athletic department at a time where ambitious expansion plans across the entire program – not just Carter-Finley – were in the works.

The obvious conclusion is that winning will fill the stands. Or perhaps it is nothing more than a basic tenet: fans simply will not open their checkbooks for a guy that doesn’t beat the team they most hate. They will, however, hand over large portions of their disposable income to a guy that convinces them that if they give him their money, good things will indeed happen.

Just the prospect of winning, or even the perception of it, can have a similar effect. Thus, the reason Chuck Amato was such an important hire for State after O’Cain’s dismissal in 1999. While he certainly never delivered on his rhetoric about national prominence, what he did do – and very effectively – was put fans in the stadium and drive fundraising past levels a disgruntled fan base in the 1990s could only imagine. In fact, the more seats we added, the more seats we filled; this surge has even carried over into Tom O’Brien’s tenure, adding further evidence to the importance of having a leader that will no doubt offer a proactive approach to the business of college athletics.

However, in the process of trying to achieve what many term ridiculous aspirations, we built this current monstrosity and now we don’t know how to deal with it. From a financial standpoint, we have an increasingly successful program. And after all, college athletics today is big business, a competitive market of proliferating TV revenues where success in terms of wins and losses is peripheral to success in terms of revenue and market share.

Georgia Tech Athletic Director Dan Radakovich confirmed this after dismissing Chan Gailey in December. According to ESPN.com, he said of the decision: “As far as Xs and Os, Chan is a very good coach. But there’s more to it now. College football is more than just Xs and Os, especially in the competitive market where we are.”

It’s certainly not for us, as State fans, to judge what any other program deems necessary for their own progress. We define our own model of success and we must invariably respect that each fan base has a unique perspective on how to define its own success. What I find interesting, however, is that a program like Georgia Tech has seemingly refused to accept mediocrity even while mired within it. The fan base’s discontent with the direction of Gailey’s program was evidenced every time they played a home game and there were, on average, nearly 3,000 empty seats (see data below).

Firing a coach with Chan Gailey’s credentials could perhaps be considered a bold move by Radakovich. Gailey never once had a losing season or a losing conference record, and he finished with seven regular-season wins in every season except 2004, when he finished 6-5. He led the Yellow Jackets to five bowl games – six, including the one he didn’t coach in 2007. However, he posted an overall losing bowl record of 2-3 mostly in lower-tier bowls. Moreover, in a 12-game season, seven wins is not the steadfast benchmark of consistency that it once was, particularly now that all seven-win and most six-win BCS teams go to a bowl. By comparison, George Welsh, who defined winning consistency in the ACC, having won at least seven games at Virginia 13 consecutive years between 1987 and 1999, was not even rewarded with a bowl berth for three different 7-4 seasons (1988, 1992, and 1997).

In retrospect, Gailey’s tenure in Atlanta was conspicuous for what he didn’t accomplish rather than what he did. He never lost fewer than five games, played for but never won a conference championship, and never played in a BCS bowl. Most importantly, he never beat Georgia.

The grumbling among the fan base began in earnest towards the end of 2006, when Gailey’s Yellow Jackets ended the season with three consecutive losses to Georgia, Wake Forest in the ACC Championship game, and West Virginia in the Gator Bowl. After Gailey’s sixth season – a winning one – and his sixth loss to Georgia, he was out as the head coach at Georgia Tech.

What Radakovich did was act quickly and confidently, which should prove reassuring to the Georgia Tech fan base that he’s incontrovertibly in control. Must be a good feeling.

By all indications, Gailey was fired because Radakovich demonstrates not only a keen understanding of the big business that is college athletics but he also understands completely what his fan base demands. It has become increasingly evident that the Tech fan base is unwilling – certainly it’s capable – to open its pockets in support of a team that will be nothing more than a perennial seven-game winner; unquestionably one that doesn’t beat Georgia. This is a case where perception is driven by reality.

Although Atlanta may be the home to Georgia Tech, the pervasive argument is that while it doesn’t rival the archetypal SEC atmosphere of Auburn, Baton Rouge, Knoxville, Oxford, Tuscaloosa, or above all, Athens, Atlanta is still very much SEC country, often hosting the SEC Championship; more importantly, the Atlanta media is overwhelmingly pro-Georgia.

Tech faces a handicap in this regard, but it is obviously not a reality Radakovich or the Ramblin’ Wreck faithful show a willingness to accept. This defiance has shown itself on Saturdays for the past few years. Not only could Gailey not defeat Georgia on the field, he was unable to get fans excited enough to even come to the games. Georgia Tech’s apathy is seemingly common knowledge to anyone that has seen the many empty seats – surprisingly, the many empty gold field-side seats – at Bobby Dodd any given Saturday.

Evidenced by the NCAA’s official attendance figures, Georgia Tech simply does not measure up when compared to its chief rival, Georgia. Demand for Georgia football is soaring, while the data suggests that apathy has taken root in Atlanta.

Both Bobby Dodd and Sanford Stadiums have undergone major renovations since 2002. According to GeorgiaDogs.com, the official athletics website for Georgia, Sanford Stadium underwent a total of $33 million in 2003 and 2004 while RamblinWreck.com, the official source for Georgia Tech athletics, reports that Bobby Dodd Stadium underwent a total of $75 million (this figure also includes the Russ Chandler Stadium for baseball). However, only Georgia contended nationally in total attendance during Gailey’s tenure, having ranked fifth on average, behind Michigan, Penn State, Tennessee, and Ohio State from 2003 to 2007 (they ranked just behind LSU in 2002 before Sanford Stadium’s 2003 expansion was complete).

Overall, Georgia Tech not only doesn’t compete in total attendance but struggles also to match Georgia in filling up its stadium each week. On average, Georgia totals 41,466 (83%) more in attendance, which indicates a much greater demand overall for a Georgia football ticket; this is actually quite obvious to anyone that comprehends the cultural difference between SEC and ACC football.

Upon closer inspection of the data, however, the apathy is revealed. During Gailey’s tenure, Tech averaged only 94.5% total capacity, which translates to 2,993 empty seats for each home game, while down the road in Athens, there is a fan in every seat without problems; in fact, Georgia has the opposite problem of demand surpassing supply. While overall attendance at Bobby Dodd is up from 2002 – remember, capacity increased by nearly 21% in 2003 – most telling about the increased apathy of the fan base is the fact that not only did attendance fall each year of Gailey’s tenure after the 2003 expansion, percent capacity fell as well, from 98.7% in 2002 to a mere 91.4% in 2007. This translates to the aforementioned 2,993 empty seats every home game.

Frankly, Georgia Tech doesn’t need a bigger stadium or a larger fan base to be successful; in fact, they have had brief periods of prominence within the past 20 years, having split the national title with Colorado in 1990 (by contrast, Georgia’s last national title was in 1980). What Georgia Tech does require, however, is a fan base that not only fills the seats but also spends its money with more energy.

Radakovich understands this and dismissed Gailey based on his inability to drive Tech fans to do exactly this.

State and Tech are similar in many regards; our cultures are akin and we both experience an inconsistency with local and regional media coverage — most notably, the recent treatment by local, regional, and national medias concerning our coaching situation: Carolina was applauded for replacing Doherty with Williams after three short years of mediocrity while we were villified for “running off” Sendek after eleven years of mediocrity.

But our leadership styles sharply contrast: I have to wonder, had a similar scenario presented itself in Raleigh – say, consistent 20-win seasons, five straight postseason appearances, mediocre fan attendance, a disgruntled and disjointed fan base, and the inability to beat our primary rival – what would Lee Fowler have done?

My guess: absolutely nothing. And then when that change had been unexpectedly forced upon him, he would have proven miserably inept and short of the task.

(For the record, I will go to my grave believing that Rick Barnes would be our coach today had Lee Fowler not handled that search – nothing anyone could tell me, including Barnes himself, will ever convince me otherwise; unreasonable, perhaps, but I am a State fan, after all.)

Watching Radakovich act quickly, assuredly, and arguably smoothly to make necessary changes is perplexing for many of us among a fan base that has endured what we have felt has been an often oblivious while seemingly impervious administration that lags in making progressive changes, preferring instead a reactive approach that often comes long after we have grown exceedingly disgruntled.

Radakovich could likely have been patient for one more year, and it is unlikely he would have come under too much criticism. Instead, he made a proactive decision with the expectation that the next coach will advance the Georgia Tech program before the fans have lost faith. This suggests that while Georgia Tech struggles, they have yet to become complacent with not competing at or above the level of either the rest of the ACC or more precisely, Georgia.

Meanwhile, the party line from our A.D., the local media, and the local talking heads is that we have unrealistic expectations if we think we should ever be able to compete with the storied Carolina and Duke. We’re unrealistic, impatient, and insatiable. Just don’t forget to send in your WPC dues!

We’ve been told to aspire to prominence but just as quickly chastised for having expected it within a reasonable time frame. Shame on us for having unrealistic expectations and shame on us for shelling out millions to make them reality.

Hopefully someone out there has the solution.

*****
*****

NCAA.com Attendance Data

Georgia Tech 2002-2007 (Bobby Dodd Stadium)
Year……..Official……Capacity…….% Capacity……..National Rank
2007……..50,280……..55,000…………91.4………………..44…..
2006……..50,617……..55,000…………92.0………………..40…..
2005……..51,607……..55,000…………93.8………………..40…..
2004……..52,242……..55,000…………95.0………………..44…..
2003……..52,862……..55,000…………96.1………………..37…..
2002……..43,156……..43,719…………98.7………………..47…..
Totals……50,127……..53,119…………94.5………………..42…..

Georgia 2002-2007 (Sanford Stadium)
Year……..Official……Capacity…….% Capacity……..National Rank
2007……..92,746……..92,746………….100………………..5…..
2006……..92,746……..92,746………….100………………..5…..
2005……..92,701……..92,746………….100………………..5…..
2004……..92,746……..92,746………….100………………..5…..
2003……..92,058……..92,058………….100………………..5…..
2002……..86,520……..86,520………….100………………..5…..
Totals……91,586……..91,593………….100………………..5…..

NC State 2000-2007 (Chuck Amato & Tom O’Brien)
Year……..Official……Capacity…….% Capacity……..National Rank
2007……..56,356……..57,071…………98.7……………….36…..
2006……..56,540……..57,071…………99.1……………….32…..
2005……..52,925……..55,571…………95.2……………….37…..
2004……..53,500……..54,500…………98.2……………….36…..
2003……..53,274……..54,500…………97.8……………….36…..
2002……..49,477……..51,500…………96.1……………….37…..
2001……..49,254……..51,500…………95.6……………….34…..
2000……..46,748……..51,500…………91.0……………….41…..
Totals……52,259……..54,151…………96.4……………….36…..

NC State 1995-1999 (Mike O’Cain)
Year……..Official……Capacity…….% Capacity……..National Rank
1999*…….45,058……..50,500…………89.2………………44…..
1998*…….39,941……..50,500…………79.1………………49…..
1997……..45,939……..50,500…………91.0……………….49…..
1996……..41,328……..50,500…………81.8……………….46…..
1995……..45,292……..50,500…………89.7……………….46…..
Totals……43,510……..50,500…………86.1……………….47…..

North Carolina 2000-2007 (Kenan Stadium)
Year……..Official……Capacity…….% Capacity……..National Rank
2007……..57,417……..59,892…………95.9……………….35…..
2006……..48,857……..59,892…………81.6……………….42…..
2005……..51,667……..59,892…………86.3……………….39…..
2004……..48,000……..59,892…………80.1……………….42…..
2003……..47,133……..59,892…………78.7……………….44…..
2002……..50,292……..59,892…………84.0……………….36…..
2001……..52,583……..59,892…………87.8……………….30…..
2000……..50,500……..59,892…………84.3……………….35…..
Totals……50,806……..59,892…………84.8……………….38…..

North Carolina 1995-1999 (Kenan Stadium)
Year……..Official……Capacity…….% Capacity……..National Rank
1999*…….43,167……..60,000…………72.0………………46…..
1998*…….55,670……..60,000…………92.8………………28…..
1997……..57,650……..57,800…………99.7………………28…..
1996……..47,500……..48,500…………98.0………………30…..
1995……..46,800……..52,000…………90.0………………30…..
Totals……50,157……..55,660…………90.5………………32…..

*In both 1998 and 1999, State vs. Carolina was in Charlotte, which in all likelihood would have been a capacity game for each stadium; Kenan in 1998 and Carter-Finley in 1999.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

AD & Department Fans General NC State Administration NCS Football

68 Responses to A View from the Cheap Seats

  1. turfpack 03/26/2008 at 10:38 PM #

    Mr.wolfpack90-AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. WestCoast 03/27/2008 at 12:54 AM #

    Mr. Wolfpack90 –

    You need to be our AD! If you can give speeches as well as your post, then we’d be in good hands.

  3. ncsumatman 03/27/2008 at 1:12 AM #

    As both a graduate of NCSU and Alabama, I have several opinions on this post. Mike Shula sucked, and was fired accordingly, but the money sure as hell didn’t stop pouring in at Alabama (nor never will). But that’s football, and is king.

    Mark Gottfried sucks (ronnie steele’s injury really killed him), his teams lack an offensive identity and defensive intensity (sound familiar). But his buyout is 3,000,000, and while they have the money, they won’t buy him out.

    Simply put, the money involved in an athletic program, in my opinion, is directly related to football. While we fashion ourselves as a basketball school, when Amato (superior in accomplishments to Sendek IMO) faltered, he was ran off. Sendek dumped us, and had he not, we would have watched Werner & Co. lose to MSU on Saturday this past weekend. Fowler would have never released him.

    I expect this post was written regarding our ineptitude in basketball, not football, as TOB was a great hire. You want to withold $$$, doesn’t matter. Football is the straw that stirs the drink, TOB succeeds, and a shitty bball team becomes the target. But while we suck at both, fball is all that matters, bball is an after thought to administrators and donors alike, and it’s that way at GT, NCSU, UA, AU and anywhere else you want to analyze outisde of Duke and Carolina. Hell, WFU could care less about bball.

    BUT, I give my money to Alabama, where I went to law school, not where I spent 4 1/2 years, not where I was in a fraternity, not where I thought I would send my kids. I spend it at a place where winning is a premium, and where I intend to send my kids, so what do I know.

    LRM: I absolutely think we stole one with TOB; he might prove to be the best hire of my lifetime. Incidentally, I don’t believe Lee Fowler handled that search, though.

  4. cooldrip 03/27/2008 at 1:36 AM #

    The management and owners of the N&O were different then. And not to defend the media, but Tudor is probably the foremost historian of ACC basketball. He always speaks highly of our tradition, and understands our tradition better than most of our fans. He also gives us credit for accomplishments when it’s due. We just never do anything anymore to deserve much credit.

  5. cooldrip 03/27/2008 at 1:40 AM #

    Oh, and before 1990, our program was nearly the equal of UNC’s, and was more successful and storied than Duke in any conceivable way.

  6. 66pack 03/27/2008 at 8:25 AM #

    the decline in ncsu athletics is to be blamed on the people who have placed Oblinger in is position,who hired Fowler,Les Robinson and ToddTurner. The WPC probably agreed with AD hires.

    SFN: Couldn’t have been said quicker or with more accuracy

  7. RAWFS 03/27/2008 at 8:37 AM #

    ^ IE: The Good Ole Boys Club.

    They run NC State like a little town, and while a lot of what they do is good, a lot of what they do is incredibly inadequate.

    In fact, one of my friends calls one of them Boss Hawg. You can guess who that is.

    I am convinced that the Peter Principle is in full force at NC State University, from the top on down. Were this a corporate organization and I sat on the board, I would advocate a great deal of deadwood trimming, some forced retirements and new leadership at the top and in key departments such as athletics.

    I still think my Dad put it best: “That ain’t no G–D— way to run an Army.”

  8. Rick 03/27/2008 at 9:05 AM #

    ” “while some will remember him for 5 straight NCAA bids, his 1-17 record vs. NCAA tournament bound UNC teams was a source for frustration. In addition, he’s one of only 2 ACC coaches to last at a school 10 years w/out a regular season conference title or the conference championship.” ”

    That is what they SHOULD have done but that would require forethought and Foulup does not have that ability. It would also require pointing out the shortcomings of the guy he backed. To point out Sendek’s shortcomings would have highlighted LF’s incompetance.

    I think we all have to accept our second tier status. We are and will be irrelevant as long as the current asministration is in place and there is no reason to beleive that will change.

  9. RAWFS 03/27/2008 at 9:07 AM #

    I think we all have to accept our second tier status.

    I cannot and never will accept that.

    It is not in my nature. It should never be in any of y’alls either.

    LRM: I feel safe in saying that few State fans will ever accept second-tier status, and it’s pretty evident by our passion, however unreasonable it may at times become, myself included.

  10. SMD 03/27/2008 at 9:09 AM #

    GREAT discussion.

    I don’t think the type of change we seek in our university can happen with one or two hires. The change has got to be cultural, and across the board. Now, that kind of change can START with one good hire. I always though MAF was a hire to get the ball rolling for cultural change.

    But let’s face it – even before the rise and fall of Coach V, our school has never collectively aspired to greatness on the field. Willis Casey made some great hires, but was too much of a tightwad. I am not sure if that is a by-product of the type of school we are or not. After all, scientists and engineers aren’t typically self-promoting types who can see the bigger picture.

    Short of landing another MAF who could start the ball for change rolling, I don’t think it’s ever going to happen.

  11. James 03/27/2008 at 9:18 AM #

    “State and Tech are similar in many regards; our cultures are akin and we both experience an inconsistency with local and regional media coverage — most notably, the recent treatment by local, regional, and national medias concerning our coaching situation: Carolina was applauded for replacing Doherty with Williams after three short years of mediocrity while we were villified for “running off” Sendek after eleven years of mediocrity.”

    This is so true. Did anyone catch this ridiculous YouTube video from our friends at 850 the Buzz? Where was that kind of treatment for UNC-CH when Doherty was dismissed? Of course they are Carolina and thus are entitled to NCAA Titles.

    Why should we care what the local media – the N&O, WRAL, or 850 the Buzz – think about us? The Buzz is a small time radio station. If UMD Grad Adam Gold doesn’t like us, screw him. Same for the rest of the collection of small time UNC history and journalism grads that litter our the press. Forget them. Screw them. They’re not important.

    Anyone who tells us we can’t compete or should settle for third place behind the blues has no credibility in my eyes. Every day State grads are competing against and beating Chapel Hill and Duke grads in the corporate world and for spots in law and medical schools. And guess what? Our grads are beating their grads every single day.

    Obviously we have the ability to compete and win. It’s time to translate this to athletics. The problem is we have an administration who buys into these lies and parades around looking for approval from local media talking heads who don’t want us to be successful in the first place.

    LRM: I agree. I think much of the problem is that Fowler cares more about our (and his) national image than he does catering to the culture of the fan base he’s supposedly leading — and it shows with the haphazard marketing and self-promotion. Who cares if we’re well-known on a national level? If we start beating Carolina and Duke and winning ACC titles, that will all take care of itself. He’s focused too much on style as opposed to substance — how does the nation view us? Two years ago when every coach in America spurned us, the last thing I was worried about was the national perception of us; instead, I was devastated that we couldn’t get the one guy most of us strongly believed would bring this thing back together. Who cares is Steve Lavin thinks Herb Sendek is a great coach that we treated unfairly and who cares if Andy Katz thought Rick Barnes would have made a huge mistake coming here? I care what other State fans think, because it’s about us, not everyone else.

    As for 850, my Tahoe emits less pollution into the air than it does. There’s a simple way to make it disappear, though — stop listening.

  12. James 03/27/2008 at 9:29 AM #

    That said, I’m sick of just sitting here helplessly complaining about this kind of thing. We need to develop an effective strategy to change the administrative culture of the University. Is it time to take over the Board of Trustees?

    It’s a monumental task no doubt. So much of the alumni is infected with this mediocre attitude, so happy to be in the same conferece as UNC-CH and Duke.

    LRM: I’d love nothing more than to see a realistic, well-executed strategy for the future advancement of this program out of our leadership that represents the average State fan. So far all we’ve gotten out of the current leadership is unfulfilled rhetoric. They pleaded for the facilities — remember, we couldn’t recruit or win without them — and now they’ve got them. What’s next? That’s what I really want to know, yet no one seems to be able to tell me that.

  13. choppack1 03/27/2008 at 9:33 AM #

    One point I’d like to expand upon in my manifesto:

    NC State is a public, state run university. NC State is part of a group of NC colleges under the “UNC” umbrella. The current leader of this is Erskine Bowles. He’s a died in the whool tar heel fan. If you saw him at one of those games on the sideline you could tell he was very into the action.

    Does anyone think he cares one damn bit about NC State athletics? Does he care if NC State becomes a glorified Wake Tech?

    There’s a definite hierarchy in this leadership – and we ain’t the shining star.

    It’s times like these that I really wish I had gone to a private school. I think the leadership at a private school at least has to worry about their future and their future alone. Wake Forest or Duke doesn’t have to worry about the other. They are in competition w/ one another – and who cares what the other does.

    I really believe that our current lot is complicated by this fact. Being a “land grant” university is great and has it’s advantages. However, if you’re needs aren’t as vital in the pecking or can’t be escelated to the front of the line, what is your recourse? A private university has all the motivation it needs to compete and stay competitive. I imagine Oblinger thinks if he’s as publicly ambitious as MAF, he’ll be henpecked (or should I say “owlpecked”) by ole Erskine- “Know your place boy!”

    Has anyone really determined why MAF left? Was it frustration of those below her or the frustrations w/ those above her?

  14. old13 03/27/2008 at 9:52 AM #

    I haven’t given to ANYTHING NC State since 2005 as a result of Fowler’s dragging the university through the mud with his BB coach search. Since then, I have developed an even lower propensity to give to or join anything NC State, and have informed any and all who come to me asking for contributions why I will not give. In fact, I’m bordering on being ashamed to even identify NC State to anyone as my alma matre (BSME 1968).

    Although being a fan during the ’70s-’90s period certainly had its ups-and-downs, that experience pales in view of the past several years with Fowler and Oblinger in charge. And until some real leadership shows up in key positions at NCSU, I will direct my giving to others who will act responsibly in putting it to good use. In my opinion, it is completely irresposible, and certainly a violation of trust, when a university administration causes me or anyone to be ashamed of their school. And I am completely mystified as to why our BOT has let this happen. Certainly the buck has to stop there!

    Some may say that withholding contributions means that I am not a true fan. But when it is clear that no effort is being made by the school to use what I give to better the school, then I see no other recourse. Otherwise I am being a bad steward of what God have provided me. And I see no other way to get my feelings across in a manner that will be addressed. Of course, it will take many more than me acting to effect changes. And if someone has a better idea on how to do this, I’m open to suggestion. But, for now, I cannot in good conscience support the NCSU administration or BOT.

    LRM: Understandable point. I, for one, would never opine on how anyone else should allocate their own money (what can I say, it’s part of what makes me a Republican). As I’ve said, I also think that being a true fan is far too gray an area to measure by individual giving and it’s ridiculous to try. However, I do think it speaks volumes for our passion as a fan base that our collective giving has been at such generous levels for so long now — I would have to think we’re the envy of many programs out there. What say you Boston College?

  15. choppack1 03/27/2008 at 10:02 AM #

    old 13 – I don’t have a problem w/ what you’re doing at all.

    If I was Bill Gates, I’d tell the BOT that I had $50 million for them, all they had to do was fire Oblinger and Fowler and replace them w/ competent, ethical, dedicated and competitive people who wanted NC State to be the best damn university on the planet. Until then, all I’d do is buy season football tickets and show up Friday for the game in my $1 million RV :).

  16. James 03/27/2008 at 10:11 AM #

    LRM,

    That’s so true about 850. I haven’t listened in ages, but I do recall the days of The Sports Pig (hosted by UNC alum Morgan Patrick) and the G-Spot. I remember calling Adam Gold and getting cut off when trying to make a case against Sendek at the end of his disasterous fifth season. One of the joys about living in Northern Virginia is not even having the temptation to listen on the dial. Not that 850’s pathetic broadcast power could reach that far anyway. Heck, a few years ago you couldn’t even hear it in Raleigh after 6 o’clock.

    All of this just underlines the point about local media. These fools should be laughed at when they tell us we can’t compete and lavish Sendek with praises out of spite for us. They don’t want us to win. But, as SFN stated above, the media isn’t the problem. Adminstration beholden to the media’s distorted vision of our University is.

  17. ktoh 03/27/2008 at 10:18 AM #

    Please does anyone know what the BOT think or the members of the raleigh club ? I am afraid I know the answer but hold out hope for some form of sanity.
    As far as our so called local media is concerned it is just an extention to our sports information dept ,tow the company line.

  18. MApackfan 03/27/2008 at 10:45 AM #

    I spoke with a WPC rep at a recent meeting, and he admitted that there was some increasing heat on LF and that “it was probably deserved”. The thought that this man could be possibly honored for his current job performance makes me sick to my stomach.

    I think the only way for any of us to make a significant impact would be for someone to write a REASONED and concise letter explaining why we think his job performance is well below what we think the job expectations should be, and why we therefore ask either for him to be dismissed or for him to be given a strict set of requirements to be met within a very short period of time (top half of conference Sears cup standings; competing for conf. chamionships in all major sports, etc.).

    This letter will need to be signed* by many (50 or more) people who are graduates (and perferably long-term WPC and/or Alumni Assn members), and it will NOT be effective if is written in a threatening or overly emotional sort of way. It should be addressed directly to the chancellor and copied to each member of the board of trustees. It can also be copied to any news outlets you may choose so that it is public knowledge. This is not a petition; it is an open letter to the chancellor requesting action on his part.

    *(With a letter like this, the “signatures” can be typed names with graduation year and any titles you wish to include; an actual “signature” is not necessary.)

    This “campaign” will require a willingness on our parts to make our feelings known without referring to our “board membership” or “number of postings” , etc. which are totally meaningless to the powers that be.

    If someone wants to tackle this task, I, for one, will be happy to sign on.

  19. choppack1 03/27/2008 at 10:47 AM #

    James – Don’t base you local media opinion on Adam Gold.

    He’s an idiot. Dave Glenn did a good of outlining NC State and the attractiveness of the job as does a local talk show host here in the Winston area Camel Philpot (or at least that’s what his name sounds like.)

    If you want to know how smart Adam Gold is, in the mid 90s I called into his talk show and advised that the way the NBA game was going, our pros would get beaten in the Olympics fairly soon. He, as he does w/ any opinion he disagrees w/, became irrational and combative and dismissed the idea as absurd. The sad thing is, when the USA won that bronze medal a couple of years ago, I guarantee you he didn’t remember how stupid and WRONG he was on that issue.

    Kind of like when he said State’s problem w/ getting a good coach was $$$. Then after signing Amato, we secured the most expensive coaching staff in the country. If he was paid for being wrong, he’d be a rich man.

  20. Old_Wolf 03/27/2008 at 11:22 AM #

    Many have alluded to the PTB and the good-ole-boy netwrk that runs things.

    Who is this actually referring to? Is it Bowles and the BOG or are we talking about more at the NC State PTB?

    I know that CD Spangler was one of the instrumental PTB in removing V and the ensuing mess, but who is it now? Same bunch?

  21. blackdom 03/27/2008 at 11:55 AM #

    Mapackfan : Lee yes of course and no mention of Sid ? I would love to have a voice .

  22. howlie 03/27/2008 at 11:55 AM #

    The challenge is ‘punishing’ the Wolfpack Club–which is doing an excellent job–because of a putrid an inept Athletic Director and athletic programs caught in a quagmire…

    It’s like refusing to help pay for your child’s colled because you’re disgruntled with your spouse…

    I’m just thinking out loud, but wonder if there’s a way to give even MORE money to the WPC and have it HELD in a restricted account for the sole purpose of [fill in the blank–improvements to facilities based upon performance?; supplemental salary for assistants?; money to hire another AD?’].
    The LTR’s have essentially “tenured” Fowler and the non-performing athletics program and made the fanbase powerless–while the fan’s accoounts are being automatically drafted for life.
    COMMITMENT and PERFORMANCE on the fan’s end should be MATCHED & EXCEEDED by commitment and performance on the end that is receiving all the funds.

  23. howlie 03/27/2008 at 11:57 AM #

    er, ‘college’

    (is there a way to edit previous posts here?)

  24. James 03/27/2008 at 12:17 PM #

    MA-

    I think your idea of a group letter is a great one. There’s no need to be negative in it. We need to outline our positive vision for the future of NC State athletics – competing for ACC and National Championships is all major sports – and discuss how the current administration is not measuring up.

    We could first deliver this message to the Chancellor and the BOT. If that does not work, we should take out a full page ad in the Sunday edition of each major newspaper in the State with the letter and all of the signatures accompanying it. I for one pledge $500 to the endeavor right now. We could even start a 501(c)(3) to manage the donations. I know for a fact there are NCSU grad lawyers who would be happy to help with that.

  25. RAWFS 03/27/2008 at 12:24 PM #

    scientists and engineers aren’t typically self-promoting types who can see the bigger picture.

    Correct.

    Signed,

    and

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