A View from the Cheap Seats

There’s been a lot of talk recently about the decline of ACC football over the past few years. To me, it’s an interesting topic because the whole basis behind expansion was on increased football revenues from restructured television contracts and the multi-million dollar payout from that much-coveted, yet ever-elusive second BCS bowl.

In its simplest terms, the pervasive argument for expansion was that ACC football could not survive, and certainly couldn’t prosper, in its current state. It would need leverage, specifically in the form of increased television ratings, which would ensure its existence as part of the BCS.

At that time, adding Miami was tough to oppose; the Hurricanes had returned after a brief depression during the 90s as a perennial national championship contender. By all indications they were the homerun addition that would immediately close the widening gap between the SEC & Big XII and the ACC.

The argument for Boston College seemed at best quixotic, considering the well-documented nature of their fickle and apathetic fan base; while they might have been based in the nation’s #2 television market, there seemed to be little evidence that this extended past the pro sports market.

Virginia Tech – not in the original plan, remember – at least seemed to make sense strictly from a standpoint of improving the legitimacy of the ACC with the BCS. But not until the Virginia state legislature interceded and pressured Virginia into blocking expansion did the Hokies become part of the equation. This effectively removed Syracuse from the plan; the Orange had always seemed a tough sell from a football perspective anyway, but only now does it register entirely absurd.

So adding Miami alone made practical sense, but it never added up fiscally; they alone couldn’t make up the financial gap that would be created in a 10-way versus nine-way split of revenues. Additionally, it wouldn’t provide for the addition of that illustrious conference championship game that Swofford so zealously shoved down our throats. We’d have to add three teams that were not only marketable, but would also immediately legitimize our seat at that illustrious BCS table.

And so it was all or nothing.

Miami, Boston College and Virginia Tech would have to defect to the ACC, otherwise the conference would face that ominous Doomsday scenario: the Big East kicks out Temple and Rutgers and adds a Louisville program on the rise while Notre Dame is forced to join the Big 10; the ACC, without any clout, is negotiated out of the future BCS picture and as a result, Florida State defects to the Big East. Suddenly the ACC becomes nothing more than the most-feared basketball conference.

Expansion passed.

Miami and Virginia Tech had combined since 1998 for a national title, three national title appearances, and five BCS appearances. Miami had played in four consecutive BCS games (2004 Orange, 2003 Fiesta, 2002 Rose, and 2001 Sugar), two of which had been the national championship game (2003 Fiesta and 2002 Rose); additionally, the perplexing BCS rankings shifted them into the 2001 Sugar versus Florida, while the Florida State team they’d defeated in October played for the national championship in the Orange.

This would indicate that the ACC should have immediately improved with the addition of Miami alone, if no one else. So, what happened?

Today, the ACC is one pathetic football conference. It has a 1-8 record in BCS games, its lone win Florida State’s 2000 Sugar Bowl win over Virginia Tech for the 1999 national title – where are those teams now?

The other BCS appearances have all been losses: 1999 Fiesta (Florida State, to 1998 National Champion Tennessee); 2001 Orange (Florida State, to 2000 National Champion Oklahoma); 2002 Orange (Maryland, to Florida); 2003 Sugar (FSU, to Georgia); 2004 Orange (Florida State, to Miami); 2005 Sugar (Virginia Tech, to Auburn, who after Southern Cal’s shellacking of Oklahoma looked to be the clear #2); 2006 (Florida State, to Penn State); and 2007 (Wake Forest, to Louisville).

This season, both Miami and Virginia Tech were taken behind the woodshed on national television, by Oklahoma and LSU, respectively. Duke holds the nation’s longest losing streak and doesn’t show any signs of improving while State, abashedly, holds the nation’s second longest losing streak and shows little reason for optimism this season. Virginia’s bright spot is they played Duke last week while Carolina’s bright spot is they play Virginia this week. Florida State is likely already out of the ACC race after an abysmal season-opening performance at Clemson. Boston College had an impressive win over Wake Forest, who couldn’t top an evenly-matched Nebraska team in Winston. It’s too soon to know at what point in the season Clemson will collapse while Georgia Tech has been a complete mismatch over both their opponents.

So, again, what went wrong?

Did Swofford overvalue the ACC’s future and miss the nuances that have caused the decline, primarily the complete, inexcusable lack of both talent and development of the quarterback position? Let’s face it, special teams may win ballgames and defense may win championships, but quarterbacks are the backbone of long-sustained successful programs.

The evidence is there: Florida State went from Ward, Weinke and even Outzen to McPherson, Rix and Weatherford; Miami from Dorsey to Wright; and Virginia Tech from Vick and Randall to Glennon and now Taylor.

It stretches further down into the middle of the pack. The last time the ACC had even two truly competent, effective quarterbacks was in 2003, when Schaub and Rivers were seniors; not incidentally, this was the last time either Virginia or State could be considered rising programs. However, neither has been able to replace these two. It’s gotten so bad that commentators are comparing Matt Ryan – inexplicably – to Philip; after all, they are both tall guys.

Maybe it really, truly is as simple as Philip having ruined the quarterback position for any and all that follow — like Val Kilmer did so marvelously the role of Doc Holliday in Tombstone. If so, I’m good with that.

But there has to be more to it, and it’s should present some interesting discussion below.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

General NCS Football

26 Responses to A View from the Cheap Seats

  1. Mr O 09/14/2007 at 2:25 PM #

    Nice entry.

  2. burnbarn 09/14/2007 at 2:29 PM #

    At the end of the day wasn’t it all about the money for the conference and that has been a very good move. Of course, the next contract could be different, but we have a few years to get it going again.

    There seems to be a dilution of talent and really every conference (save PAC10) seems to be floundering. SEC is still good with UF and LSU, but UGa Tenn Bama Auburn are all having for them sub par stretches.

    What conference is tearing it up right now? I can hear an argument for PAC10, but I think that is just a cyclical thing.

  3. stejen 09/14/2007 at 2:42 PM #

    First of all I think it is unfair to throw Wake Forest into this as they are one of the few good stories for the ACC in the past five years. The decline of football in the ACC is not centralized to the ACC but it is nationwide. It started in the late 70’s when soccer gained popularity in high schools and football just was not the “thing” anymore. SI even did a story on this trend. Thirty years ago boys used to live and breath to play high school football. Now it is not uncommon to hear of a high school with an enrollment of 600 students or more having to drop football due to lack of interest. In the midwest many schools are having to switch to fielding 7 players on the field instead of 11. Now this lack of interest in football for high schoolers is showing in college and even in the NFL (remember in the 70’s and 80’s when there were always at least three very good teams at any given year? Now it is a guess as to who might be good enough to win 10 games). Football used to be the most popular sport among boys with baseball being second and basketball a distant third. Now basketball is by far the sport of choice for boys and football programs are having to cling to whatever players they can talk into trying out. Sooner or later this trend was going to show in college and now it has.

  4. Great Dane Guy 09/14/2007 at 2:49 PM #

    Interesting. I think in 3 years, NC State and UNC will be top 25, Miami will be back to top 15, and who the heck knows about FSU. They should be back also. I think the teams that will suffer is BC and Uva. GT, Clem, and VT should stay about the same, which should be top 20. The ACC’s biggest hit, as you stated, is the fall of Miami and FSU. I wonder if the talent has been diluted with teams like UCF and South Florida? Those starters usually made good backups at Miami and FSU. Plus, Florida has become a hotbed of activity from other schools, an example is State and Amato. The ACC did get the TV contract they wanted, though.

  5. Wulfpack 09/14/2007 at 2:49 PM #

    The SEC is still finishing the year with 5-6 teams in the top-25. Arkansas had a great year last year and should be ok this year. We know LSU and UF will be there at the end. South Carolina seems to be on the rise, and UT and Georgia have struggled but are still solid programs. It’ll be interesting to see what Kentucky is able to do against Louisville tomorrow.

    To me Miami and FSU have really let us down. Granted, it doesn’t just fall on them, but they have fallen way off the radar.

  6. EverettBeez 09/14/2007 at 2:51 PM #

    Excellent question to ponder and discuss. Now we just need beer.
    How do you explain this? Expansion, on paper, should’ve brought great strength, but it sure hasn’t.

    Could the much pointed to reduction in scholarships be part of this?
    What is the effect of recruiting in the same area as the SEC?

    The SEC may be weaker then in past years, but it has that storied football history that so many ACC teams lack, and that might give them an edge. I think folks in Alabama are still bamboozled by the fact that PR went to State rather then Bama or Auburn.

    As to expansion- VTech was a natural addition in my book. I think it adds a great regional rival to the league. Miami, you can make an argument for – but the the GREAT distance from everyone – including FSU – and its troubled history made me suspect from the start. BC? disaster. They don’t care about a bunch of southern schools, and frankly, I don’t give a whit about them. Why not just graft a dog’s tail on to a cat? Hell, if TV will pay us more for it, do it!
    It also makes our league logo look goofy.

  7. EverettBeez 09/14/2007 at 2:56 PM #

    Great Dane Guy makes me wonder if we shouldn’t drop BC and add UCF or South Florida. It makes more geographic sense!

    Of course, ECU would be the choice of ECU fans.

    Can we convince App State to move up a division and join the ACC? Wake would freak out over that, lol. of App’s 7 wins against 1-A schools, 6 are over Wake. Man, those good Baptists were never happy to see all of hilly billies invading their turf each fall!

  8. Wxwolf 09/14/2007 at 2:56 PM #

    I think some of this decline is due to the increased visibility for the non-BCS D-IA football conferences. The rise of teams from C-USA/MAC/Mountain West and the fact that schools from these leagues get a lot more national TV exposure than they did even 5 or 10 years can’t be good for the BCS conference teams. This trend has resulted in making a lot more programs high visibility options for talented recruits. I’m sure there are a lot of talented players who when choosing between fighting it out for playing time at a school from one of the BCS conferences and a better chance to be “the man” at a smaller school can now pick the smaller school and still get a fair amount of national TV/bowl exposure.

  9. highonlowe 09/14/2007 at 3:11 PM #

    To expand on Wxwolf’s point-
    Lying underneath the surface is the fact that the NCAA tightened academic standards [pdf] in 2005, and will raise them again on Aug. 1st, 2008 to finally meet the ACC’s eligibility requirements. Admissions are the biggest hurdle for coaches. (see: Calipari, Spurrier, the gamecocks leaving the ACC, etc). Its no coincidence that most of today’s biggest stars in the NFL are from small colleges.

  10. Wolf-n-Atl 09/14/2007 at 3:14 PM #

    I don’t think it is a lack of talented football players, but rather that the talent is spread to more programs. In Florida, FSU & Miami don’t just have to worry about UF taking talented players, they also worry about USF, UCF, FIU, Rutgers, NC State and other national programs. The 2nd & 3rd players on FSU & Miami’s recruiting board who used to create the depth that the other programs couldn’t match are now opting to be starters on smaller name schools.

    As for the other schools in the ACC, I think each school is different. NC State recruited mostly defense & skill in hopes that it could create offensive lineman appear from thin air. UVA recruited well early, but never was able to gain enough momentum to become a strong program again. Clemson has had the talent, but has found a way to keep from being a top program – likewise with Gtech. Virginia & Maryland have to compete with rising Rutgers & WVU programs. UNC may have made a bad hire and Duke is Duke.

    It will be interesting to see where the programs go from here. I think we are building a solid foundation for extended success. How much success will be the question. I expect Wake to be above average with occasional great teams. Georgia Tech will remain in the top of the conference as they are taking advantage of the weak ACC with strong recruiting. This is a crucial year for Clemson. If Tommy stumbles again, they will look for new leadership. Bobby will eventually leave FSU and their future will hinge on their new coach. I think Miami will pull it together although it will take a couple of seasons. Vtech will remain a strong program and if they get a good QB will challenge for a championship. BC will be good, but not great. UVA and Duke have the worst future as Duke is Duke and UVA has too long of a contract to can Groh.

    LRM Note: Very good point. I’m glad you mentioned the “outsider” recruiting battles in Florida. I wanted to mention this but was unable to develop any kind of coherent thought about it, so I left it out.

    Admittedly, I pay very little attention to recruiting because I think it’s vastly overrated; I think development is more important than raw talent, and that’s primarily coaching. The adage has always been that true athletes can play any position, but I think that’s starting to prove untrue. Athleticism, speed, and talent don’t necessarily negate chemistry, fit or that natural aptitude for the game that good coaches can hone.

    However, I will absolutely concede that QB is the one position where finding the right talent and fit is imperative and the inability of the ACC to do this — namely FSU & MIA — is a large factor in their downfall. BUT, that doesn’t explain Florida’s mainstay atop the SEC and the nation. I’m curious why they continue to get the top talent there while MIA & FSU can’t?

  11. packbackr04 09/14/2007 at 3:15 PM #

    this is just another indiscment of the BCS system.. it is killing the product of college football. WxWolf’s point is very valid. The whole big fish, small pond thing…. but lets drop the bowl system and go to a playoff.

  12. packgrad2000 09/14/2007 at 3:21 PM #

    LRM-
    Great post. Though I am a State fan and obviously biased, I thought the comparison between Ryan & Rivers on Saturday was ridicuous. Yes, Ryan is the best the ACC has right now and he’s a good QB & will probably even make a fine QB in the NFL one day (maybe even a starter, especially if he goes to KC or Cleveland!) but he’s no where near Rivers. He has a 1.5:1 TD:INT ratio; Rivers was something like 3.5:1. Even numbers aside, he didn’t exactly dominate our average defense on Saturday. He was good, not great against us. I can count on one hand games that Rivers had that I’d call good, but not great. But of course I know I’m biased.

    LRM Note: Remeber, it’s not a bias if it’s true. It’s funny, I’ve had several people comment that they never considered Philip as exceptional as every State fan does. My only response: go look at his stats and then come back and tell me what you think. When they do, it’s a real “wow” moment for them.

    Also, he’s the only guy I know that’s still cool yelling the ever-vulgar “bull crap” to a referee after a horrible call.

  13. Sam92 09/14/2007 at 3:31 PM #

    outstanding post.

    we have recruiting challenges that make it difficult to get a primo QB – i think TOB will do it, given some time.

    competing in NC presents its own challenges (like, not having as fertile ground as say Texas, Florida (overmined at this point) or California), and UNC, like it or not, is tough competition for NC recruits.

    going out of state, particularly out of region, is also tough for NCSU, not having the pre-eminence, or budget, of the powerhouse programs.

    Having said all of that, Virginia Tech’s situation is similar to ours, and look what they’ve accomplished (including great QBs) — the big difference is that their coach is truly a rare find, whereas ours have been, well, more commonplace. TOB is a step up for us and in a couple of years I think he’s going to bring it all together.

  14. RickJ 09/14/2007 at 3:32 PM #

    “The rise of teams from C-USA/MAC/Mountain West and the fact that schools from these leagues get a lot more national TV exposure than they did even 5 or 10 years can’t be good for the BCS conference teams.”

    There is not a single team from any of these conferences that is currently ranked in the Top 25. It is still a huge advantage to be in the BCS. The BCS as a whole is not down, just the ACC.

  15. Wxwolf 09/14/2007 at 3:39 PM #

    ^This is true, but you now have teams that were up and comers in those smaller leagues (Louisville, USF), that are in or on the fringe of the top 25 that are in the BCS conferences now. Don’t forget about Hawaii being ranked as well.

    I don’t think its as much the success as the exposure some of these leagues now get. If you compare the national cable TV exposure of these smaller leagues from 10 years ago to now, it has probably increased 10000% with more and more college football on TV (ESPN2, ESPNU, CSTV, Versus, FSN).

  16. primacyone 09/14/2007 at 3:41 PM #

    Nice Post LRM

    The more you compare conferences, but more you start to see effects of higher academic requirements by the ACC Schools. When you look back to the expansions discussions around 2003 to the changes that accured in 2004 you start to see some singificant corelations with academic requirements and on the field performance. I’m not saying it’s wrong or right, but an obvious relationship.

    Miami is a prime exapmle before expansion and after expansion. They have really not done squat on the field since they increased their academic requirements. An argument this columist makes here:http://www.armchairgm.com/index.php?title=Why_is_Miami_failing_and_where_do_they_go_from_here%3F

    “Miami currently has a higher minimum standard for admission of athletes then required by the NCAA and higher standards for admission of athletes then 93 of 117 division IA football programs. (this includes key rivals, Florida State, Florida and Virginia Tech.) These increased academic standards have been cited by many pundits as the reason why the Miami job which was once so attractive to many of the top coaches in the nation is now so unattractive to many. The reality is that it is now difficult to get marginal kids into Miami, and each year several top recruits that sign with the Hurricanes end up playing somewhere else. In addition, Larry Coker unlike Bobby Bowden and especially Frank Beamer has felt the need to suspend players for minimal violations of team policy and to provide a character litmus test to all members of his team. As a result, Miami has not had a single player on its roster charged with a crime during the entire tenure of Coker. On the other hand, Beamer and Bowden seem to suspend players only under extraordinary circumstances. I have no hesitation to say Marcus Vick would have never played a down for Larry Coker. It could be strongly argued that Miami would have beaten Florida State this season had star running back Tyrone Moss not been suspended for missing a study hall.”

    Maybe Chuck was really on the money last year with his coments afer the Akron game. It’s possible for the confernce to compete nationally, other conferences are going to have to increase their academic standards.

    Either that or start offering a degree in football, which offers another tangent argument – Why do we praise music degrees, but don’t offer football degrees. It’s great if a high school student goes to regular day of class and then spends 6 hours a day outside of that practicing piano and giving it everything they have related to that and then goes off to college and gets a music degree. We are all for that. But the high school student that that goes to regular day of class then spends 6 hours a day outside of that practicing football and giving it everything they have related to that and then goes off to college in can’t even get a major in football, or some equivalant. . . . . . etc.

    Looking at WV, USC, LSU – are there any teams in the top 10 that have the same academic requirements of the ACC? Maybe that is something that needs to be worked on. Give that job to Chuck. He was right all along.

  17. roandaddy 09/14/2007 at 4:13 PM #

    The biggest difference between the ACC and the other conferences.. fan base. Plain and simple. More fans equal more viewers equal more TV and money.
    Its almost as simple as look at stadium size. Tired of hearing about ND and Michigan? Well.. the pack in a huge stadium and draw large TV audiences.. so in turn you have the most overrated, overhyped teams that have yet to win a game in 4 tries.
    Miami has a great national following thanks to its exploits in the 80s and 90s.. but its stadium is laughable. Va Tech is at best a regional player with its largest claim to fame being Vick.. which is now a liability. VT is a team outside of the ACC, that no one can accept as being good every year. I also place WVU in this category too.
    They win a lot of games, but always seem to lose the big one. Miami has developed its own bad reputation that wasn’t helped with the “fight” game last year.

    On the whole.. the ACC could have the worst stadiums of all the major BCS conferences. (excluding the Big East) Stadiums are viewed on the whole as the amount of fan and financial support you have around the particular sport. Take UNC.. built the Dean Dome and paid cash for it.. and at the time one of the largest arenas in the country.. add RBC, even Wake’s arena.. all huge by national standards. Not to slam on our stadium, but its small compared to Big Ten or SEC standards.

    Bottom line.. I think ACC is viewed nationally as a basketball conference.

    LRM Note: I agree on the stadium issue — it’s a supply/demand issue. In ACC football, only Clemson and FSU can compete nationally in attendance (mid-80s capacity). I was at an Ole Miss game last fall and many of their fans are not proud that Vaughn-Hemmingway only seats 63,000 while Auburn, Florida, and Georgia are all mid-80s, LSU and now Alabama are mid-90s, and Tennessee is nearly 110 — it seems to be a real point of contention in SEC country.

    As for basketball, I’ve always felt the cozier, the better.

  18. lush 09/14/2007 at 4:20 PM #

    “Now this lack of interest in football for high schoolers is showing in college and even in the NFL (remember in the 70’s and 80’s when there were always at least three very good teams at any given year? Now it is a guess as to who might be good enough to win 10 games). ”

    this is a ridiculous statement. you do realize that 10 wins wont even lock you in for the playoffs right? the chargers, ravens, bears, colts, patriots, jets, saints, and eagles all had 10+ wins last year. in 2005 13 teams had 10+ wins. the NFL is stronger and more competitive than it has ever been.

  19. RedTerror29 09/14/2007 at 5:38 PM #

    ^^^So Miami can’t recruit anymore because of high academic standards? Go back and check their recruiting rankings over the past few years – all top-15 is I’m not mistaken. And how many first-rounders did they have last year?

    Bottomline, it’s coaching. Compare the coaches in the Big East to the coaches in the ACC and you can understand why the Big East is up and the ACC is down.

  20. noah 09/14/2007 at 6:14 PM #

    The doomsday scenario was NOT that everyone else would get stronger while the ACC stood the same. Had that been the case, we probably wouldn’t have expanded. The doomsday scenario was laid out very clearly by both Clemson and Florida State, who were letting it be known through back-channels that a defection from the ACC was a very real possibility if the league didn’t make a move to get a conference championship game.

    The really stupid part came when they positioned the conference so that the start of the year and the end of the year would be the Miami-FSU game (presumably in the championship match).

    Today is not forever. Keep reminding yourself of that.

    As far as academic standards go, the ACC will NEVER go down that route. NC State and UNC both are bound to minimum standards above SEC schools with the extra math credit…so they’re never going to vote for weakening standards. And then Dook, Wake, Georgia Tech and UVa are never going down that road. That’s enough votes to prevent a league-wide effort to admit retards.

  21. chris92heel 09/14/2007 at 6:20 PM #

    Is LA not the #2 TV market?

    It’ll be interesting to see the effect, if any, of Miami moving from the Orange Bowl.

  22. vtpackfan 09/14/2007 at 6:36 PM #

    How many SEC or Big 10 schools are thirty minutes apart. When State and Carolina both have home games, there is near 85-90,000 fans attending one or another. Other regions just aren’t like that, plain and simple. We get a rep of just being BBall fans, but the numbers say that the area is very competitive in attracted football fans.

    Maybe TOB and Davis (along with Grobe) can both succeed and bring and intensity level and media attention here based on the uniqueness of the situation. My gut tells me Butch won’t be around for to long though (less than 5 for sure).

  23. gumbydammit 09/14/2007 at 8:09 PM #

    Val Kilmer in Tombstone? Sharon Stone in The Quick and the Dead was so much worse….

    LRM Note: Think you misunderstood. That line was a credit to Philip; Val Kilmer was born to be Doc Holliday — that was the greatest role in the greatest western ever. Like Philip did for ACC quarterbacks, Kilmer ruined it for anyone that would follow because no one could ever possibly measure up.

  24. noah 09/14/2007 at 8:41 PM #

    (that comment about the “decline of football” is so off-base on so many different levels that it really doesn’t deserve a response)

  25. EverettBeez 09/14/2007 at 10:37 PM #

    LRM – as an Ole Miss alum (grad degrees) I am damn glad we treated you well. Its one of the best college towns in the country at this point in history.
    The stadium is significantly bigger then when I started in 91, and at that point we played several games a year in Jackson – shades of State and Riddick. But the commitment was made to play in Oxford (with all of its 100 hotel rooms at the time) and the stadium enlarged. This was a town of 12,000. Yet they find a way to do it. Pride is a large part of it.

    LRM Note: Hotty Toddy, Gosh Amighty. By far the friendliest, most charming fans I’ve ever tailgated with.

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