Two-Sport Standouts

This piece at ESPN snuck through during the holiday season and we wanted to make sure that it didn’t go totally ignored.

ESPN’s Pat Forde used Jeff Sagarin’s ratings over a five-year period to come up with a ranking of the two-sport schools over the last five years. The results are interesting.

NC State logged a respectable (#24) in the rankings, just ahead of Michigan State, UCLA, Clemson, USC, Oregon, Auburn and Arizona. Unfortunately for State, any such ranking next year will be severely impaired by this year’s basketball performance and the fact that State’s Gator Bowl season in football will roll out of the analysis set.

Boston College’s consistency (and one big year in basketball) helps land them at (#6) nationally and a surprising (#1) in the ACC. Maryland is (#8); Florida State (#15); and Georgia Tech ties Georgia at (#20).

Like the Pack, the Terps will also be negatively in the near future as some of their great basketball teams from the beginning of the decade roll-off simultaneously with their ACC Champion football team.

Carolina and Duke were both hurt by their football programs (and the Heels had some residual of the of the Matt Doeherty era) ranking (#33) and (#50), respectively.

What schools might significantly improve if the rankings are done again next year? Look for Penn State and Texas A&M to make forward progress; Memphis, Nebraska and South Carolina may also make some moves.

For the record, East Carolina is (#104) out of 119 schools.

Forde’s exercise is interesting. Using Sagarin is as logical as using anything. Of course, the Sagarin basically counts every game the same and doesn’t adjust or account for big milestones and championships.

It would ve VERY INTERESTING to see some college student work on a statistical model that attempts to account for other variables by quantifying and ranking the magnitude of other relevant achievements like – conference ranking, championships, bowl success (accounting for the difference in bids in good bowls and bad bowls), etc, etc.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

General NC State Administration NCS Basketball NCS Football Non-Revenue Rankings & Lists

11 Responses to Two-Sport Standouts

  1. RickJ 01/03/2007 at 11:13 AM #

    “doesn’t adjust or account for big milestones and championships.”

    I’ve seen this discussed on this blog in the past. Consistency doesn’t seem to be nearly as satisfying to fans as great moments. Look at Wake in football: 4 -7 for the last two years and now an ACC Championship with a three year record of 19 – 17. Tom O’Brien was 28 – 9 in the same three years and their fans can’t wait for him to leave.

    As much as I hate to bring this into the discussion, in 4 of the 10 years Herb was at NC State, he came within 1 game of winning a championship (3 real championships and 1 regular season).

    It is just obvious to me that “big milestones and championships” are critical to success. Even at the highest levels of achievement this remains true. In the past week, many have tried to argue that Smith was a better coach than Knight but this argument is always trumped with 3 National Championships to 2. In golf, at the highest level, it is about major championships not how many tournaments you won.

  2. BoKnowsNCS71 01/03/2007 at 12:43 PM #

    Wonder how it would look going back more years. Lots of schools have peaks and valleys but over say 20 years — that would show a commitment.

  3. BoKnowsNCS71 01/03/2007 at 12:54 PM #

    SFN — Interesting article on Bill Cowher getting a week to make a decision. Might make an intersting topic.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2717313

  4. StateFans 01/03/2007 at 1:12 PM #

    In basketball, would you rather finish the season #4 in the country and get knocked out of the NCAA in the second round…or finish in the top 25 in the country and win your conference championship and make the Final Four?

    There is a big difference in these seasons

  5. redfred2 01/03/2007 at 2:47 PM #

    Hey, anyone looking in from a distance might say that the #24 ranking should more than acceptable to us NSCU fans, and it possibly should be. But just a pile of numbers cannot tell the whole story, and statistics cannot take into account the individual talent that has been suited up and wasted in both the football and basketball programs recently.

    When you’re playing up to a #24 ranking it is something to be proud of, but not when you’re constantly playing down to it.

  6. redfred2 01/03/2007 at 3:16 PM #

    I would also say that the #24 ranking would have been allowed to slip further and further on down in the years to come, if it hadn’t been for certain unlenting fans being so loud in voicing their disapproval. Afterall, we have UNC and Duke in BB, as has always been the case, even we when won 10 ACC and 2 national championships. Now add UM, VT, and BC into the mix in football, and what is a poor little administration like NC State’s supposed to do.

    All they had ever shown before, along with so many of the younger folks in the fan base, was an ability to come up with more and more excuses year after year.

  7. RickJ 01/03/2007 at 3:29 PM #

    “In basketball, would you rather finish the season #4 in the country and get knocked out of the NCAA in the second round…or finish in the top 25 in the country and win your conference championship and make the Final Four?

    The second scenario and it isn’t even close. At this point, I’d take a conference championship and no Final Four over a #1 finish in the country and making it to the Final 8. For me, we need to hang a legitimate banner.

  8. Mr O 01/03/2007 at 5:30 PM #

    (#4) in the country probably includes the ACC regular season title. Winning the ACC regular season is more difficult than winning the ACC tournament.

    Ultimately you want a program that is consistently very good because those are usually the programs with the most Final Fours, regular season titles, conf. titles, and national titles.

    With the scenario brought up, it is an obvious choice of which season we would prefer. Winning a conference championship and making the Final Four are both great achievements by themselves let alone in the same season. If any team from the ACC won the ACC title and then reached the Final Four, then they are going to be ranked a lot higher than top 25. It would be closer to the #4 ranking.

  9. redfred2 01/03/2007 at 5:43 PM #

    O, it took a while for you to spit that one out, but I see what you’re saying.

  10. Mr O 01/03/2007 at 5:48 PM #

    To add more information, here are the final top 10 from the Sagarin for the last few years. I have tried to be as accurate as possible in terms of accomplishments, but may have missed a few.

    2006
    Duke (ACC Title, Sweet 16)
    Fla (SEC Title, NCAA title)
    UConn (Final 8)
    Villanova (Final 8)
    Memphis (Final Four)
    Texas (Final 8)
    LSU (Final Four)
    UCLA (National Finals)
    Illinois
    Georgetown

    2005
    UNC (National title, ACC regular season)
    Illinois (National Finals, Big 10 title)
    Lville (Conf. USA, Final Four)
    Duke (ACC tourney title, Final 8)
    Mich St (Final Four)
    Wake
    Wash (Pac 10 title, round of 32)
    Arizona (Final 8)
    UK (Final 8)
    Oklahoma St (round of 16, not sure on Big 12)

    Overall, finishing in the top 10 of the Sagarin is where we want to be as a program.

  11. Mr O 01/03/2007 at 5:50 PM #

    Statefans can edit that post. When I typed Final eight using the number 8 for the word 8, it produced the smiley face.

    So 8) = Final 8

Leave a Reply