SFN: Need Your Research Help

General NCS Basketball26

Forgive us for this. It’s Sunday and I’m running to church…so, I thought that I would lean on the community for some help with something.

I’m looking for a quote and was hoping one of you researching gurus could find it. The older set will know exactly what I am talking about —

It was a very famous situation that took place in the mid-1980s. Coach K was trying to build his program at Duke and was fed up with the inconsistent officiating that always seemed to benefit Dean Smith and UNC-CH. While addressing the media after a Duke loss, K publicly stated what the rest of the league had felt for years.

Can you find these quotes with your researching skills?

While I am typing this…I wonder if anyone could/would find some similar quotes (aimed at Duke) made by Maryland’s Gary Williams in the late 1990s or early part of this decade?

Thanks so much for your participation. There is a lot of power in the community.

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General NCS Basketball

26 Responses to SFN: Need Your Research Help

  1. Lee Fowler 01/28/2007 at 10:57 AM #

    You can probably source this to John Feinstein’s book “March to Madness.”

    Also in that book, Feinstein relates a story where K pointed down the sideline at Dean, turned to (then Asst Coach) Quin Snyder on the bench and said (paraphrase): “If I ever act like the son of a bitch, just shoot me.”

  2. Lee Fowler 01/28/2007 at 11:03 AM #

    Here it is:

    Link

    Excerpt from the book:

    “…Smith and Krzyzewski haven’t gotten along since 1984, when Krzyzewski insisted there was a ”double standard” in the way ACC referees worked -one for North Carolina, another for the rest of the league. Smith still bridles at that claim, and the two men have exchanged brickbats -publicly and privately -ever since. In 1995, Rick Barnes’s first year in the league, he and Smith nearly fought during an ACC tournament game. A year later, they were called to Commissioner Gene Corrigan’s home and told in no uncertain terms to quit calling each other names in public. Now, they just do it in private. “

  3. StateFans 01/28/2007 at 11:16 AM #

    ^ That is the incident. There is a direct quote from K’s comments about the “double standard”.

    Since we are already on a roll regarding this topic…it would be nice if our readers would share other coach vs conf/ref stories through the years!

  4. SuperStuff 01/28/2007 at 11:54 AM #

    The thing that always gets me is when you see refs run to coach K to let him know about something. They always leave the opposing coach standing around with his hands in the air asking for the same clarification.

    Rick Barnes was right to tell Dean Smith to quit badgering his players with criticism. You coach your kids and I’ll coach mine is the way it should be.

  5. tvp 01/28/2007 at 12:06 PM #

    “You cannot allow people to go around pointing at officials and yelling at them without technicals being called. That is just not allowed. So let’s get some things straight around here and quit the double standard that exists in this league, all right?”

    Mike Kysrokck$%ah*#kweski, January 21, 1984

  6. StateFans 01/28/2007 at 12:51 PM #

    ^ You ROCK

  7. Lee Fowler 01/28/2007 at 1:20 PM #

    Mike Krzyzewski:

    “Call the charge you goddamned motherfucking son of a c**k s**king bitch! I am going to kick the fuck out of your dog, slaughter it with a dull knife, then I’m going to rip its throat out and force feed it to your wife in front of your fucking sick dying children!!”

  8. 66pack 01/28/2007 at 3:27 PM #

    article in n&o about recruiting indicates how bad we were getting with amato.10th in acc and of the top 12 rcruits in nc 3 are going to unc 2 to sc and 2 to clemson

    SFN: We’ve got some some recruiting stuff coming in the coming days.

  9. WV Wolf 01/28/2007 at 6:35 PM #

    The double standard quote is also in the book “Four Corners” by Joe Menzer on page 275:
    “I want to tell you something. When you come in here and start talking about how Duke has no class, you’d better start getting your stories straight–because our students had class and our team had class. There was not a person on our bench who was pointing a finger at the officials or banging on the scorer’s table….So let’s get some things straight around here, and quit the double-standard that exists in this league. All right?”

    I have John Feinstein’s “A March To Madness” as well, it should probably tell you something when in the index under “Krzyzewski, Mike” there are 8 different references to “referees and.”

    Here’s the Gary Williams quote. On p. 289-290:
    “As Capel stepped back from the line to gather himself, both Profit and Sarunas Jasikevisius left their spots on the lane and took a step or two in his direction, clapping thier hands, telling him he was going to miss the second one too.

    As they did, referee Zelton Steed warned them to stop, that they could be called for a for taunting. That wasn’t good enough for Krzyzewski. ‘There’s nothing in the rules about a warning,’ he screamed at Steed. ‘That’s a technical foul for taunting! You have to call it!’

    Hearing Krzyzewski, Williams jumped out of his perpetual in-game crouch and started waving his arms, indicating that the Duke players had been moving their arms when Maryland was shooting free throws–also a violation.

    Steed decided he needed to explain what he had done to both coaches so he called them to the scorer’s table. Krzyzewski was still screaming for a tauning technical. Williams was screaming about the Duke players waving their arms. ‘That’s bullshit, Gary,’ Krzyzewski said.

    ‘It’s only bullshit when your guys do it, right Mike?’ ”

    The act like Dean quote was is on page 103, “If I ever for one minute start to act like him, don’t ask a single question. Just get a gun and shoot me.”

    An exchange with Duke Esdall during a Clemson game on p. 357-58, seems appropriate to bring up after all the hand check non-calls when we played Dook this year:
    ” ‘Call a hand check, Duke,’ he yelled at Edsall at one point. ‘The fouls are 5-2; that’s ridiculous.’

    ‘They’re playing the same way you’re playing Mike,’ Edsall replied as he ran past the Duke bench.

    ‘What?’ Krzyzewski yelled. ‘Don’t insult me by saying we’re playing the same way they play.’ ”

    Later in the same game K tells Dick Paparo: “You’ve got to get the other guys to call the hand check consistently.”

  10. DireWolf 01/28/2007 at 6:47 PM #

    It used to be Lenny Wirtz giving the calls to Dean Smith. Now it’s every crew afraid of Coach K.

  11. vtpackfan 01/28/2007 at 7:23 PM #

    It’s no conspiracy or any other thing. Bob Knight is a talented basketball coach who has very questionable judgement at times. K has done everything in his power to be “the little General” w/o seeming to be a jerk like Knight is. ESPN, led by Dick V, and Bilas have helped keep his image from being tarnished by continually over-emphasizing any Dook achievement while down playing or ignoring any hypacritical moments.

  12. packpigskinfan23 01/28/2007 at 8:09 PM #

    I dont know much of this as I wasnt much of a College Ball fan at the time… but it seems like Coach K did what was right for his team(and the ACC) at the time, but it has evolved into him becoming what he hated most- Dean Smith. Sure he dosnt go about it the same way as the Dean did… but the refs do favor K. We cant all expect him to bitch about that, right?! what we need is a guy to do what K did back then. Stand up and show the refs their inconsistant calls, and force them to do something about it.

    Unfortunatly Swofford isnt gonna let that happen, and I think Coach Lowe has a bit too much class to directly take on the ACC like that. I do think he will help change the way the officals look at NCSU, and will do a far better job then Herb did in making sure we dont get too screwed.

  13. BoKnowsNCS71 01/29/2007 at 8:57 AM #

    Both Roy and K work the coaches to the max. That was pretty evident in Feinstein’s book and just watching them every year. For all the other coaches with “class” — I’m afraid — like Coach Purnell at Clemson –good guys will always finish last.

    It seems to me that working the refs has become part of the game. I think, because some coaches are overly vocal and send letters to the league office ahead of the game, that the officiating crews get nervous and start reacting. How the ACC office reacts and reprimands also has an affect on how a ref may interact with a coach in a subsequent game.

    If there are refs who are blatantly biased — one would hope that that would stand out in their stats and that the league’s officiating boss would reprimand or try to eliminate that. But that is probably hoping for a lot more integrity than we are seeing. Needs to be public versus internal.

    With so much money going in to sports betting now, one can’t ignore the fact that referees are a potential weak link. In pro sports — until instant replay — I always thought the home field advantange in football meant the refs were afraid to make critical calls on the home team. But whether the ACC (or NCAA) refs are just being influenced by vocal coaches or whether there may be some behind the back benefits — the league and NCAA needs to shut up the coaches more (start calling more technicals) and let the refs call the game as they see it.

    And this has to be done everywhere — not jist in the ACC. The officiating in the Arizona – UNX game at times looked like the refs were just trying to keep the margin under 30. Or were they trying to let UA attempt to get back in the game and within the spread?

  14. packfanstk 01/29/2007 at 9:17 AM #

    Ever since I read “A March to Madness” and the K quote about if I ever start to act like Dean just shoot me, I’ve been wanting to ask Johnny Dawkins, Man, what in bluejohnhell are you waiting for?

    A few years ago in the ACCT Dook was playing Wake and after one call that went Wake’s way the camera went to Kersherooski and you could clearly hear and see him saying to the ref, “You let Prosser call that one for you!” Oh, the irony.

  15. BoKnowsNCS71 01/29/2007 at 9:32 AM #

    packfanstk — I bet if the Ref had called a technical on K right then (and the next time) this verbal abuse would start decreasing. Unitl the league defines what is offensive and not part of the game — it’s going to get worse.

  16. packbackr04 01/29/2007 at 10:08 AM #

    Did anyone see the crappy call in the UVA_Clemson game this weekend. the players clearly stepped out of bounds, and voila, no call. the acc has the worst refs in the country. paging ted valentine

  17. packfanstk 01/29/2007 at 10:46 AM #

    I’ve posted this on PackPride before, but I’ll repeat it here: the best ref the ACC ever had, and IMHO the best ref in the NCAA, told me several years ago after he quit the ACC that he would rather work the ACC than any other league when it came to the quality of the basketball, but he would never work another ACC game as long as Fred Barakat was in charge of officiating. I don’t think he’s changed his mind since Clougherty took over, since Barakat is still a senior ACC administrator and Swofford is still Commish. He said there was a definite and not-so-subtle culture to give the better teams and players the calls, and that certain coaches were sacrosanct. The straw that broke the camel’s back was when Barakat called him in to tell him he was out of line calling a technical on Khrushchev…in so many words “You don’t T-up Coach K.”….and wasn’t interested at all in the circumstances which naturally involved vulgarity and verbal abuse.

    This fellow is not an inferior ref with a complex or a chip on his shoulder or nothing like that. He has since reffed at least one national championship game, a couple of other Final Four games and works regularly for several other conferences. No, sorry, I can’t reveal his name, but JB, you know I wouldn’t say it if it wasn’t true.

  18. Frank 01/29/2007 at 11:40 AM #

    Allow me to advance a theory here. The 800 pound gorilla in this mess is national television money. The two crown jewels in the ACC right now are Carolina and Duke. They draw the highest ratings in national TV games. The two coaches of these programs could go anywhere they wanted and coach, pro or college. So, they are protected and pampered to make sure they stay happy.

    That is my theory, for what it is worth.

  19. redfred2 01/29/2007 at 12:14 PM #

    I thought about this thread last as I watched Stanford beat #3 UCLA. I was fading in and out during the game so I couldn’t really judge the officiating for the game. There were a lot of over the back calls in the game that went by unnoticed, as seems to be the norm this year.

    Yep, it was the same legendary UCLA BRUIN PROGRAM that once totally dominated college basketball. The difference being that three of the “UCLA BRUINS” big men HAD COMMITTED FOULS, and that THE OFFICIALS IN THE GAME ACTUALLY MADE THE CALLS. All three of the “UCLA BRUINS” bigs were in foul trouble in the second half of the game and a Stanford Cardinal() team picked up every phase of it’s game to overcome a 17 deficit and win the game. Most of us use to seeing ACC officiating would ask, “How can that happen, to the #3 (((UCLA BRUINS?)))”

    It did, and it should have, and it was great game to watch. Never happen in the ACC though.

  20. Slader4881 01/29/2007 at 12:50 PM #

    I don’t like Coach K but you have to respect the man. He is an ass plain and simple, but the SOB can win basketball games. You have to blame the ACC for all of this. They allow the top dogs to skate freely, there is no way they crack down on the people that bring in their bread money. They have the two highest profile coaches and schools in the same league and if either team is down the $$ disappears.

    One thing I think some people are not bringing up is the fact that speed wise bball is the toughest game to call. They can call everything if they want to. In football half the time they can’t see everything and much more things are allowed – (holding on almost every play).

    Bottom line – just deal with it. I’ve known my whole life that Dook and UNX get what they want. That is what makes victory over them soo sweet. Things will not change any time soon.

  21. Rick 01/29/2007 at 1:15 PM #

    “Bottom line – just deal with it. I’ve known my whole life that Dook and UNX get what they want. ”

    So yuou acknowledge there is a bias but your solution is to “deal with it”.
    Brilliant. Hey there is a cop out there that only gives Asians speeding tickets while letting all other races get off. They should just “deal with it”.
    If there is inequity it needs to be dealt with plain and simple.

  22. waxhaw 01/29/2007 at 1:54 PM #

    Slader – If Dook and UNC-CH are that good, they shouldn’t need help from the referees. Calls will be missed, but the treatment Duke gets is a joke.

    Another good source is the ACC index card. It can be linked from the wfnz (Charlotte AM 610) radio station website. I’m pretty sure it’s up to date at least to 2005. Not sure if 2006 was done yet. It tracks fouls for and against all of the ACC teams.

  23. crpagpalp 01/29/2007 at 2:01 PM #

    I know I may get ripped for this but I think it is important to note that the famous K double standard quote was NOT about the REFS and how they were calling the game but was about how the MEDIA portrayed Carolina and how ‘classy’ they were compared to rest of the league.
    Here is the correct quote again “I want to tell you something. When you come in here and start talking about how Duke has no class, you’d better start getting your stories straight–because our students had class and our team had class. There was not a person on our bench who was pointing a finger at the officials or banging on the scorer’s table. So let’s get some things straight around here, and quit the double-standard that exists in this league. All right?”
    I can not remember the specifics but prior to the game the media had been ripping the Cameron crazies for a cheer they had done in a previous game and talked about it wasn’t classy then here was this game with Dean pounding the scorers table and K knew there wouldn’t be a word said about it in the papers. Somehow over the years the quote has morphed into some rant the K supposedly had about the refs and that just isn’t the case. Let’s not buy into the Carolina hype that this was about how games were being called. This was about the double standard there WAS and STILL IS with regards to the way the media treats their darlings over in Chapel Hill.

  24. WV Wolf 01/29/2007 at 2:28 PM #

    Here’s the specifics. Sam Perkins got called for his 3rd foul. Dean thought it should have been on a different player. He wanted a conference with the refs but it was too loud in Cameron and they didn’t hear him and play continues. Dean tries to get the clock operator (the same Tommy Hunt who screwed up the Clemson game) to blow the horn and stop the game. When Hunt refused, Dean tried to hit the buzzer himself, hit the wrong button and gave Carolina 20 extra points on the scoreboard. No technical foul was assessed. That’s what K was mad about in the postgame.

  25. crpagpalp 01/29/2007 at 2:57 PM #

    I remember that, what I can’t remember was what the crazies had done in the previous game to get the media all over them. Regardless K was upset because here was Dean the epitome of ‘class’ acting the way he did and K felt the media would say nothing about it after dragging his school and fans through the mud. It was and still is a quote about the double standard in the media not with the way the refs were calling the game. I am sure K felt that a T was deserved at that time but he was not talking about a double standard with the refs.

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