ANOTHER Team Has Season Best 3 Point Shooting vs Pack

Clemson 87
NC State 76

Some quick bytes on the game…although they are not very different from any other loss this season:

* It is a broken record. Another basketball game…ANOTHER team who ‘found a way’ to shoot LIGHTS OUT from three point territory against the Wolfpack. Clemson ultimately shot 10-19 for 52% from behind the arc.

* At one point tonight the announcers made a comment about how “confidence” can help a team with their shooting. I wonder how your opponent’s inability or unwillingness to play defense impacts your shooting?

* It is not just a ‘coincidence’ that Wofford, UNC-G, ECU, UNC-W, Cincinnati, West Virginia and now Clemson have all produced fantastic shooting nights against the Wolfpack. We aren’t going to harp on the loss too much because we all know what is expected of this team this year and they are living up to the low expectations. The opportunity for the Pack to potentially nab an NIT bid this year is fleeting very quickly for the Pack.

* State continues to shoot very well from the field (and the free throw line). Tonight the Pack shot 54% from the field and 81% from the line. The problem lies in the fact that the Pack doesn’t get enough shots because of turnovers; while simultaneously allowing the opponent extra shots on offensive rebounds.

* Are we SURE that it Engin Atsur wouldn’t accept a redshirt this season and stick around another year?

* Courtney Fells should enjoy his time on the court this year because if he doesn’t show MAJOR improvement in his play on both ends of the floor then he may experience significantly dwindling playing time over the next few years. He could serve a super role as an “athlete” coming off the bench in the future, but most ACC teams don’t have spots for “shooting guards” that can’t shoot, have trouble making fundamental passes (ever heard of the BOUNCE PASS?), and don’t have a desire to play perimeter defense.

* I keep hearing from the television announcers that Trevor Ferguson is supposedly a great shooter. He probably is a great shooter; it is just hard to tell since he never shoots. What value does he bring if he can’t get a shot off in a game?

* To be honest, Ferguson is contributing EXACTLY what I expected of him. This isn’t a dig at him. Just honest analysis. You never saw SFN make any kind of a big deal (or much a mention) of his ‘absence’ before he was eligible. Can’t believe that Sendek truly spent a scholarship on this kind of transfer. Scratch that. Yes I can. Marques Johnson, Farnold Degand, Julius Mays, CJ Williams (and even Fells) presence on the roster at various points in the next three years don’t bode well for Ferguson in the future. If Costner moves to the 3F and Grant to the 2G to make room for Hickson to start next year (therefore moving Fells to the bench) then we may never see Ferguson on the court after this season.

* I have my eye on the official statistics tonight as I am interested to see how they categorize turnovers. I have periperally observed some potential ‘home cooking’ as it relates to the allocation of turnovers on State’s roster. I DVR’d the game (that I doubt very much that I will review) and randomly noted at least six turnovers that should be attributed to Gavin Grant tonight. (That is being VERY KIND) We will see how they come in.

* State opens ACC play with three losses for the first time since 1999-2000, when we went on to finish 5-11 in the conference. That is odd. Jimmy Dykes told us that Herb Sendek “did nothing but win” in Raleigh. 1999-2000? Sheesh. That was FOUR YEARS into Sendek’s tenure? That doesn’t jive with urban legend.

* Don’t make the mistake of getting too mad at the Pack for this loss just because it was to ‘Clemson’. This Tiger team currently holds the #6 spot in the Sagarin computer and is a legitimate NCAA Tournament and Top 20 team this year.


You generally KNOW that you must be at least CLOSE TO RIGHT when so many other people have the exact same thoughts as you do in realtime as things unfold. The following are comments from some of our readers from the the game entry that are SPOT ON and deserve elevation here. I elevate them because I have had all of the exact same thoughts and couldn’t agree with them more:

It is very hard to compete in the ACC when you have the worst perimeter defense in the history of mankind, and nobody can handle the ball adequately except your center.

I will revise my predictions – this could very easily be a 1-15 or 2-14 team in the ACC. I am exceptionally thankful for the Michigan win (our “one shining moment”, it seems) and the lack of an embarrassing OOC loss.

None of this is an indictment of Lowe. The skill set we need him to show is not necessarily being able to tread water with a vastly undermanned squad. We need to see what he can do with bullets in his gun. the next 2 years, we’ll see that.

What is most frustrating to me is the lack of fire in some of these guys. It translates in the careless turnovers and terrible fundamental defensive play. This is not the type of team I enjoy watching. I want us to be a fundamentally sound team that plays its ass off on the defensive end. We are as porous as can be there — guys just turning and laying it in with nobody helping out. I guess it all just sort of adds up when you only have 6 guys that can play. But come on guys, play some D! And Fells…he won’t sniff the court next year.

Courtney Fells is so frustrating. His pull up mid range jumper is so inconsistent and his turnovers are just mind boggling. Grant is the same way but just better shooting.

Grant plays horrible defense. I was watching him a lot during the later parts of the game and he was pretty much standing up-right (not in a defensinve crouch) and letting guys blow past him or making half hearted swipes at that ball. On O, he seems to play lazy most of the time and then really go after on others (like that nasty drive near the end of the game). If he attacked like that all the time, he would be nearly unstoppable

Gavin can shoot, Horner can play, McCauley is good and has a sick pass, We can keep most games close.

Gavin can’t pass, Ferguson is terrible, Fells cant pass, Atsur is more hurt, We have no depth,
We’re not going to really match up well with anyone in the ACC.

we pretty much knew all of this but this game reinforced it. Man, next year couldn’t come any faster.

Scary thought for the evening – imagine if and when the losing takes its toll on our mental state and we mail it in a bit – we’ll lose games by 40-50 points. Oh yeah, and thank God for Ben McCauley.

I hate Herb Sendek… talk about leaving the cupboard bare. He must have seen the writing on the wall with the departures of Bethel, Bennerman, Simmons, Evtimov and Brackman. He knew he would be fired with this squad. Gotta give these guys credit, they fight for as long as they can. They just don’t have the horses.

By the way…the comments and discussions here are wonderful. I just decided to take a peak at the idiot boards and I think that my IQ dropped 10 points in a matter of seconds. Thank you ALL for everything. (And, we will continue to moderate in a manner to keep the quality of the discussions as high-brow as possible).

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06-07 Basketball General

111 Responses to ANOTHER Team Has Season Best 3 Point Shooting vs Pack

  1. Wulfpack 01/09/2007 at 9:23 PM #

    Kind of hard to get out on the shooters when you are absolutely gassed b/c you haven’t had a rest since, well, the game started.

    SFN: Horsehit. It sounds good as an excuse…and would actually make sense if teams were shooting better against us in the second half than the first half…but that is nowhere near the case. Cincinnati’s shooting guard hit 3 consecutive three pointers in their first four possessions of the game. Sidney took Fells out for a possession to teach him a lesson…but there is just no other alternative to go to this year.

    To me, it is a lack of any kind of defense in the post that is helping teams blister us from long range. The post play is just opening up all kind of stuff for our opponents, and nobody is helping one another out. Just way too many open looks to be any kind of a threat this year. Good teams will make the open shots.

    All I know is our margin for error is so very thin. The turnovers are just eating this team alive.

  2. tvp 01/09/2007 at 9:25 PM #

    We’ve got a team with 6 players. 3 had never played a minute of ACC action prior to the year. 2 more had barely played against opponents of any quality. Also, the six players are 2 2-guards, 2 small forwards, and 2 power forwards.

    So yeah, this is going to be a long year.

    It will pay off next year though, I firmly believe.

    BTW your point on Fells is spot-on.

  3. BJD95 01/09/2007 at 9:25 PM #

    It is, by far, the worst perimeter defense I have seen at this level of basketball. Scratch that – maybe last year’s Wake team was pretty close. They managed to recover a bit down the stretch, hopefully wer will do the same.

    Fells is a real disappointment. He seems completely unmotivated on the court. It’s too bad Ben McCauley will be on such a bad team – he should merit at least 3rd team all-ACC contention.

  4. Cardiff Giant 01/09/2007 at 9:28 PM #

    Ye gods.

  5. PurplePeopleEaters 01/09/2007 at 9:34 PM #

    Agreed about McCauley BJD.

    Also another question..

    Since Costner is a redshirt Freshman will he still be eligible for ACC freshman of the year? I’m guessing he will and since he leads all freshman in scoring apparently he would be a realistic cantidate.

    As i’ve said before, Fells is just frustrating.. Stupid shots, stupid passes, all around stupid game.

    I’m really excited about horner though. Great play from him on the perimeter. Hopefully he can come off the bench next year and become like a Melchionni type player for duke (as annoying as melchionni was he did contribute).

  6. StateFans 01/09/2007 at 9:36 PM #

    ^ Great point about Horner’s potential role on the squad. I’ve heard that Sid really likes his game.

    To be honest, Ferguson is contributing EXACTLY what I expected of him. You never saw SFN make any kind of a big deal (or much a mention) of his ‘absence’ before he was eligible. It was pretty embarassing (and stupid) for some people to expect anything of him, let alone rely on some contribution from him. With Johnson, Degand, Mays, Williams and even Fells on the roster at various points in the next few years we may never see Ferguson on the court after this season. Especially if Costner moves to the 3F and Grant to the 2G to make room for Hickson to start.

    By the way…the comments and discussions here are wonderful. I just decided to take a peak at the idiot boards and I think that my IQ dropped 10 points in a matter of seconds. Thank you ALL for everything. (And, we will continue to moderate in a manner to keep the quality of the discussions as high-brow as possible).

  7. BJD95 01/09/2007 at 9:38 PM #

    Horner has greatly exceeded even the most optimistic expectations for his freshman season. He’s tough as nails, and has a magnificent (if a tad slow) release.

  8. legacyman 01/09/2007 at 9:41 PM #

    We aren’t very good because we are young and inexperienced and short of bodies. Why keep harping on it as if we were supposed to win something big. Let’s sit back and let the kids work it out even though it is mighty frustrating to see unforced errors sink us.

    In two years we will have enough good talent and enough bodies to play tough D. I just hope that at least one of the incoming guys is a good PG.

  9. StateFans 01/09/2007 at 9:44 PM #

    ^ Should we just shut down the site for the next two years? What else are we supposed to ‘harp on’? It would be pretty dull around here if we didn’t harp on the realities of NC State Athletics.

  10. ushum 01/09/2007 at 9:52 PM #

    whoever made the comment about Herb getting the hell out of dodge before this year was spot on…

    he had to know this would have been a killer year, can you even imagine what this year would have been like if he was still here…it would be the same team as this year plus Werner and Davis and they would not cure our problems except for more bodies…

    the lack of a pg is flat out crippling, I am so worried about our pg play not this year, but next year…this year is a pipe dream, we are just not going to get it done this year…

    Grant picks his dribble up at the worst possible times for no reason and never seems to learn a damn thing from it, and Fells I swear is sleep walking out there…no emotion…lazy ass passes, not one single bounce pass when he tries and fails to feed the post…

    I’m just scared to death that we are going to have McCauley, Hickson, Costner, and Tracy Smith in the post next year and not a damn soul once again capable of getting them the ball…or better yet getting it past half court….

    damn you Herbie…

  11. Texpack 01/09/2007 at 9:53 PM #

    Les Robinson was one blown call away from the elite 8 with a six man rotation. Corch and Monroe played hard the entire game that season. The we’re tired stuff is for losers.

    SFN: scratching head. Les Robinson made ONE NCAA Tournament and was eliminated in the second round of the tournament by Oklahoma State in a game that was controlled by the Cowboys from the start.

    But, your point is farily taken that Les made the NCAA Tournament with a six man rotation. That rotation just happened to be comprised mostly of seniors and had FOUR players who played in the NBA. We had NCAA’s All-Time assist leader at point guard, NC State’s all-time leading scorer and ACC POY at 2G and some guy named Gugliotta complemented by a senior big man in Kevin Thompson and one of the most unsung great players of all time, Brian Howard (who played in the NBA for years).

    I don’t think anyone has a doubt that the worst coach in America could win with that squad. Hell…he did.

  12. 98st8 01/09/2007 at 9:54 PM #

    Oh how I wish Larry Davis was a part of this team

  13. ushum 01/09/2007 at 9:57 PM #

    and another thing about the perimeter defense….why in the hell do we seem to play off of the guy that is killing us on the perimeter…hey guys if a man has hit two 3’s in the last couple of minutes you might want to tighten up the pressure on him…the pg at Cincy, the guy for UNCG, Rivers tonight, Hamilton, Marshall from BC…. all were open time and time again…

    and another thing, was in the hell was the story in letting James Mays get out of Garner and go to Clemson??? he looks just like Kornegay…

    SFN: You mean the same Garner that produced the NBA’s David West? Don’t you know that Herb Sendek is smarter than you and those players weren’t that good?

  14. Lee Fowler 01/09/2007 at 10:00 PM #

    Here it is folks, sit back and enjoy 0-16:

    Fells = Jackie Manuel
    Grant = Jason Capel
    Costner = Jawad Williams
    McCauley = Kris Lang
    Ferguson = Brian Morrison

    I know its sacrilege, but this is our version of that scrub team. Lets just hope glory is 3 years away.

  15. Jamie 01/09/2007 at 10:01 PM #

    I’m no tactician, and I certainly aint no ACC coach, but I just want to understand. In my feeble mind, it seems as though you would put the worst free throw shooting team in the world ON THE LINE. And, I would think that you would do it at about the 3 or 4 minute mark when you are down 15 and CANNOT make a stop. Am I wrong, or should this be where your practice/football players come in and get 5 fouls a peice? I am not trying to pick on the coaches, I just want to know if you guys have any insight.

  16. BJD95 01/09/2007 at 10:04 PM #

    We wanted Sendek to leave and he left. No reason to hate him for that. Did you want him to STAY and have a crap year (for which he would not have been fired)? Bad for him, bad for us. I’m happy he left of his own accord, and still wish him well. No reason to go down that rabbit hole any further.

    Our personnel will be significantly better next year, and even better in 2008-09. We just have to grin and bear it, and hope for a few more wins along the way. Wake and Miami really suck, too. At least we have those games to look forward to.

    I don’t even want to think about what UNC is going to do to us. It will be on ABC, so we will at least get to see it in HD…

  17. BJD95 01/09/2007 at 10:07 PM #

    Nieman and the football players DEFINITELY should have been in when we were madly fouling just to get up to the bonus. Imagine we had cut it down to 5 or 6 with a few 3s (think Costner took a shot that would have cut the margin to 6). Now, we’re screwed b/c all our legitimate players would foul out!

  18. ushum 01/09/2007 at 10:17 PM #

    i thank the basketball gods that Herb left i just wish he could have left us with one decent pg, (Atsur is a shooting guard)

  19. redfred2 01/09/2007 at 10:20 PM #

    I typed this earlier and left the room, but I whole heartedly agree with Jamie…

    I didn’t see much of a chance to win that one either, and I’m kinda surprised the final score was as close as it was. But this game could have been much close at the end, IF, Clemson had been forced to the free throw line much earlier on. We could have used every foul we had to offer, and rested at the foul line. Bring in two FB players up off of the bench and at least give them PT to sacrifice a few of their ten fouls. Then we could have fought them harder inside and not given up every basket in the paint without a scrapping and banging, then all the while making a poor free throw shooting team win it from the line instead. What did we have to lose, besides the game?

  20. Woof Wolf 01/09/2007 at 10:23 PM #

    Wake at home is down 17 to BC at the half. If we can beat them in WS this weekend and later at the our place, plus taking Miami at there place we have a chance to get to the NIT. We have home and home with VPI,

  21. Woof Wolf 01/09/2007 at 10:32 PM #

    …UVA at home and FSU on the road. If we can win a three of those games we may get to the NIT. But idon’t think so. I just wat to continue to see improvement and get ready for next year.

  22. beowolf 01/09/2007 at 10:49 PM #

    Dang, guys.

  23. PurplePeopleEaters 01/09/2007 at 10:50 PM #

    Good point Woof Wolf. I think an NIT bid is not completely out of the question. IMO I see us beating some of the lesser ACC teams and maybe pulling one upset (overrated duke at the RBC?).

  24. xphoenix87 01/09/2007 at 10:50 PM #

    Please tell me you did not just compare Ben McCauley with Kris Lang. Unacceptable.

    The worst thing about Fells is that he’s got all the physical tools to suceed, he just plays like a moron and runs at half speed all the time. There was one play where he literally beat the entire clemson team up the floor with the ball, but then on the next play he’ll just be jogging around. It’s infuriating. At least Ferguson knows better than to throw an entry pass from the top of the key, Fells seems to do it at least once every game.

    Costner is nowhere near as good as his numbers indicate. He can’t pass out of the post and gets dominated by decent defenders because he doesn’t finish well.

    It blows my mind why we don’t go to McCauley in the post every time down the court. Good things happen when he touches the ball, that’s all there is to it. He’s like Calvin Johnson this last year: incredibly good player, but the guys who pass him the ball are terrible.

  25. oljdub 01/09/2007 at 10:53 PM #

    Is it just me, or do they change the way you go into and out of the games for every game? I hate the way they taught people with the ability to see Wade Avenue yet route them all the back onto Blue Ridge. After a loss, that seems to take an hour.

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