No Contract For Neinas? Say It Ain’t So, “Coach”

I may be overreacting, but a comment reported in today’s News & Observer causes some real concern about the coaching search.

NC State Athletic Director Lee Fowler, who stumblebummed through the Sidney Lowe hiring some months back, told the newspaper that, “[h]e has talked with Chuck Neinas, a Colorado-based headhunter who helped North Carolina hire Butch Davis, about the search but said there was no contract with Neinas.”

Now, while this is not specifically contrary to Fowler’s previous announcement that NC State would use a “search firm” for the hire, it seems odd, to say the least, that one would employ a search firm without a contract for that firm’s work.

Odder still is the recent report from the Charlotte Observer on the matter, which suggests a more concrete role for Nienas in the search:

Unlike the school’s basketball search, which athletics director Lee Fowler conducted on his own, N.C. State will use a consultant. Chuck Neinas of Neinas Sports Services in Colorado, who helped North Carolina hire Davis, will help Fowler gauge the interest of coaches and negotiate.

Perhaps, as a lawyer, I am hung up on the term “contract.” But let’s face it: most fans anticipated (and expected) that Fowler would not take the lead in this search given the university’s public humiliation the last time Fowler tried to hire a major coach. And in the Lowe case “Coach” Fowler was dealing with a sport he’d actually played and coached.

A scenario where Neinas merely acts as a sounding board for Fowler suggests a far more significant decision-making role for “Coach” than I am comfortable with. Simply put, there is nothing about Fowler’s work last time around – nor, in fact, in general – that makes one feel warm and cozy at the thought of him calling the shots for such an important hire.

And I’m not alone in that opinion. Even discounting the “lunatic fringe” (translation: loyal fans and alumni) members who openly concur that the prospect of Fowler running this search gives them the willies, consider today’s comment from, of all sources, Al Myatt of Bonesville.com:

Given the spectacle of N.C. State’s recent venture in hiring a basketball coach, Wolfpack athletic director Lee Fowler might do well to put Neinas on his speed dial as a successor to Chuck Amato is sought. Had that phone call been made after Herb Sendek left for Arizona State, the Pack would have been saved the suspense and agony of missing on high profile types such as John Calipari of Memphis and Rick Barnes of Texas.

Myatt also noted with approval how UNC’s Dick Baddour learned his lesson after the Beamer and Roy Williams fiascos – resulting in the Butch Davis home run. In contrast, there’s more than a whiff of evidence that Fowler still doesn’t get it; the public rejection of NC State feelers by god-candidate Bill Cowher has a depressingly familiar similarity to the Barnes turndown earlier in the year.

And of course, “Coach” being “Coach,” Fowler just took time out to blather to The Technician that other than finding a new football coach, it’s those dratted Internet fans that are – are you ready for this? – the biggest challenge for NC State athletics:

But other than that, the biggest challenge? It’s probably the message boards on the Internet. There is so much negative stuff coming off the boards, and I think that drives the newspapers. Then the papers are constantly chasing stuff that’s being talked about on the Internet. But I think that’s the biggest challenge facing all ADs.

There are so many people on the Internet, and you never know who they are. You don’t know if they are affiliated with N.C. State in any way.

Listen up, “Coach,” and listen well: I’m “affiliated” with NC State through the degree that hangs on my wall, among other items – an affiliation which, I note in passing, you lack. And based solely on your past performance, I don’t believe you are the best person to take the lead on this coaching search.

One cascade of national humiliation is quite enough, thank you.

General

189 Responses to No Contract For Neinas? Say It Ain’t So, “Coach”

  1. test4eko 11/30/2006 at 3:17 PM #

    Perhaps Jed is repaying the lunatic fringe with a wink, wink, nudge, nudge agreement with Neinas to not acknowledge a contract to consult has been struck. Scratch that, I managed to forget who it was I was talking about before I finished typing the thought. It’s Jed, he’ll most likely underwhelm us in a newer, more spectacular way, all the while oblivious to anything outside of checking out his Crackberry to check his tee times at Preston.

  2. Dan 11/30/2006 at 3:21 PM #

    Off topic, but familiar to us:

    http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/sports/16127296.htm?source=rss&channel=thestate_sports

    Spurrier pulls a Calipari. Is Houston Nutt next?

  3. RAWFS 11/30/2006 at 3:22 PM #

    BTW, here’s the incident that you guys asked about, from the archives at the N&O.

    [T]he Pack scored a touchdown with one minute to play, missed the two-point conversion, recovered an onside kick, got a reprieve when a fourth-down interception by the Herd was wiped out by an offside penalty, then saw Davenport leap and pull down a 34-yard pass from Geoff Bender for the winning touchdown with 24 seconds remaining to keep State unbeaten at 6-0.

    Whew. Other than that, the ending was pretty routine.

    Adding even more irony was that Davenport’s TD came on a busted play. With 31 seconds left, Davenport lined up to the left and split end Shad Santee to the right, only to have both wind up running in the same direction — on deep post routes toward the left side of the end zone.

    “Geoff just said ‘Go deep’ and I did,” Davenport said. “Shad didn’t hear the play call and went to the same side. But it helped me because it lured the free safety away just enough for me to get open.”

    Reggie Lawrence then caught a two-point pass from Bender in the right corner but was ruled out of bounds. Not that it mattered. Marshall needed a “Hail Mary” to pull it out, but Michael Payton’s long pass was batted away and intercepted by State linebacker Billy Ray Haynes on the final play.

    And so it ended, with the State players relieved and thankful and Marshall coach Jim Donnan livid, angrily chasing after a game official.

    Donnan, a former Wolfpack quarterback and assistant coach, was upset over the offside call that nullified the interception by safety William King with 37 seconds left. But defensive end Jim Bernardoni clearly lined up in the neutral zone on the (article cuts off)

  4. old13 11/30/2006 at 3:22 PM #

    Re: Donnan

    I have no direct information about him. But I asked a couple of weeks ago on here why he is “black listed” at NCSU considering his coaching record. Someone mentioned that, while at Marshall, he badmouthed NCSU much. That, along with his coaching interest at Chapel Hole would seem to put his loyalty in question, especially after CTC’s obvious loyalty.

  5. primacyone 11/30/2006 at 3:24 PM #

    Somebody is an idiot. Someone at the Charlotte Observer who did not do their homework and will findout we are using another firm. Or, Lee Fowler, who will find out it’s the negative shit coming out of his mouth that drives the challenge of the internet. Either way, somebody is an idiot.

    Hey Lee, when you do things well, the internet has postive things to say and it works out very well. Just ask Sidney Lowe. When you do things bad, we end up having to talk about it. It’s called word of mouth comunication. Just do your job great Lee and this internet will have nothing but good things to say.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If the powers to be did not know last week exactly what was going to happen with Bill Cowher, then we have idiots running the show. If BC is yes or no, you know it last week and you did not learn it for the first time yesterday. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you knew last week what Bill would do, but if you just found out yesterday along with rest of us, well then there is going to be some pretty negative internet stuff coming your way.

  6. justaguy 11/30/2006 at 3:26 PM #

    “There is so much negative stuff coming off the boards, and I think that drives the newspapers. Then the papers are constantly chasing stuff that’s being talked about on the Internet. But I think that’s the biggest challenge facing all ADs.”

    The biggest challenge? I hope not. If this is Lee’s biggest challenge, he’s not focusing on the right thing. Why even discuss it. Worry about the things you can control, Lee.

  7. old13 11/30/2006 at 3:29 PM #

    ^He can control the internet – just be competent (impossible!)

  8. skywalkerdt 11/30/2006 at 3:30 PM #

    Spurrier has done nothing like John Calipari. The reports of him and any school other than USC have all been shot down immediately when he has been asked by the media. I’m not saying coaching rhetoric shoot downs. Maybe the talk has helped prompt USC to give the man more money and good for him but if you read the article its not about money he’s turned down more money from USC before in favor of it going to assistant coaches. Steve Spurrier wants a challenge, he’s done it at Florida, now he wants to show that he can take a team with the longstanding “chicken curse” and win on a major stage with them. And the last I checked he’d have to move further away from Augusta National to go to ‘Bama.

    What Houston Nutt does is his business it does not reflect poorly on NCSU until NCSU publicly offers him the job.

    Oh and for Spurrier why leave a team with a good shot at winning the SEC next year for another team in the same conference that is nowhere near that level?

  9. for2n8son 11/30/2006 at 3:30 PM #

    RE: Donnan

    Are we talking about a little trash talking in conjunction with a game and the fact that he wanted to land a job when the UNX position opened up?

  10. redfred2 11/30/2006 at 3:31 PM #

    “IF Neinas hasnt been officially hired and is only being used by Fowler to get a few pointers here and there…”

    Partial, you may be right there. You know Neinas charges 35K for a whole coaching search, but only $33,999.95 for just pointers.

    That Lee, always looking out NCSU. He’s a slick one.

  11. GAWolf 11/30/2006 at 3:35 PM #

    I’m personal friends with numerous players that played for Donnan at Georgia. Several of those guys play on Sundays… I can tell you that there were improprieties going on in Athens when Donnan was the coach, but that wasn’t unusual. Major programs do things they’re not supposed to. You’re naive if believe otherwise.

    Donnan’s players didn’t have much respect for him. He played favorites… the worst and most public example of this was with Quincy Carter. Carter lost as many games for UGA as he won for it. I believe the handling of Q was the catalyst for Donnan getting shown the door. Football is God in Athens, but Donnan took it a little too far. Many non-football people in the Athletic Department won’t say much nice about Jimmie.

    Woof Wolf is right in that losing to UGA’s numerous rivals on a regular basis was what put him on the hot seat. Under Donnan the Dawgs regularly underachieved and lost big rivalry games they were favored to win. He just rubbed too many people the wrong way… with more friends in the administration and the athletic department he could have possibly weathered the storm. There were some very serious accusations of off-the-field problems, some were made public and some were not, that added fuel to the fire.

    I for one, don’t want Donnan here in Raleigh. If he comes, I’ll support him. However, I think there are several coaches on the way up, rather than on the way down, that would be much wiser hires.

  12. for2n8son 11/30/2006 at 3:40 PM #

    Thanks GAWolf. That’s the kind of info I was looking for. I respect you guy’s judgment. I just like to hear the logic behind it so I can come to my own conclusion.

  13. TNCSU 11/30/2006 at 3:48 PM #

    ^^Under Donnan the Dawgs regularly underachieved and lost big rivalry games they were favored to win. He just rubbed too many people the wrong way…

    Substitute Amato with Donnan, and Wolfpack with Dawgs, and you’ve got the reason we are in this position!

  14. GoldenChain 11/30/2006 at 3:59 PM #

    Cardiff I would have thought as a lawyer you’d have been smarter than that.
    NCSU may not be under contract however when an acceptable hire is found then a contract will be signed so the headhunter can get his cut. This is typically the way it works in a lot of businesses. The reason?: say some one like a Cohwer, a Chow, or a Donnan drops out of the sky and calls direct to LF and says “hey I’m your man!” then the school doesn’t want to be obligated to pay a commission on something they did on their own (yes there are exclusivity clauses but does teh school really want to risk money on litigation). Besides, another firm might call and say “We have exclusive rights to offer the services of Johnson” and if you were contracted to someone else then you’d be paying double commissions for the same guy (since the 1st guy would still expect his money).

    That’s my thinking.

    Of course Jed could be flying bling too.

  15. Cardiff Giant 11/30/2006 at 4:06 PM #

    ^ Are you kidding me?

    I’ve been advising businesses for years and have never heard of such an arrangement. While I cannot discuss (naturally) specifics, I can say that in my own experience, when companies have employed recruiters, the contract was ALWAYS signed prior to the headhunter expending any effort on the company’s behalf

    Moreover, two separate posters on this forum have stated that they work or have worked for search firms and they don’t life a finger without a signed contract.

  16. Running Wolf 11/30/2006 at 4:12 PM #

    For all the reason listed in this blog…that is why you have a contract. btw/ $35K is a very…very small price to pay for a good hire….any other way is too expensive

  17. Mr O 11/30/2006 at 4:14 PM #

    How much money would it take to get Tom O’Brien out of BC???

    He uses a pro style offense, gets the most out of his recruits, and has won in the Big East and ACC. His teams play disciplined football as well. All of our weaknesses are his strengths. Many of BC’s weaknesses as a program to compete for national titles (tough academics, lack of facilities, cold weather, not an ideal location for recruiting) are NC State’s strengths.

    I don’t know if he would be interested in our job or if the ACC would allow it, but is there anyone within the realm of possibility that has better credentials than Tom O’Brien???

    PJ’s flexbone is a drawback. Fisher has no HC experience. Coker just got fired and is damaged goods. Cutcliff obviously has negatives.

    Does O’Brien have a single negative???? In terms of recruiting, he would have all of his NE ties and now the south would be open to him as well.

    He doesn’t make that much money right now.

  18. RAWFS 11/30/2006 at 4:15 PM #

    You can’t argue with that. It’s utterly simple common sense.

  19. skywalkerdt 11/30/2006 at 4:15 PM #

    i’m no lawyer but i imagine there would be some kind of escape clause for the client (NCSU) if they filled the position completely free of the search firms services but no business will provide a service without cash up front or DOCUMENTED assurances of payment.

  20. RAWFS 11/30/2006 at 4:17 PM #

    I would support an O’Brien hire faster than any candidate remaining.

    We touched on him in our list of coaches, and added that discontent with BC fans and TOB is growing — they think that he should do better, but considering their liabilities, you have to wonder how exactly.

    Plus, TOB graduates players. BC was ranked #1 in the country in 2005 in that.

    There’s incredible upside to TOB, that is, if he did not play us like Calipari.

  21. RAWFS 11/30/2006 at 4:19 PM #

    skywalker,

    There are actually clauses to prevent that from happening because both parties could swear that they met independently and the headhunting firm lose out.

    That’s airtight in those contracts. It just is SOP.

  22. class of 74 11/30/2006 at 4:21 PM #

    If I recall correctly, our esteemed AD said when searching for the BB coach he did not need a search firm because he had a good friend in that business. And our esteemed AD said he had learned much of the tricks of that trade from his good friend therefore there was no need for a search firm. Could this be why he now is talking like this or has he given himself a no bid contract to act as the search firm? Afterall he’s getting $50k/yr. from WP Marketing for a lame show featuring himself. The same WP Marketing that “won” our sports broadcasting rights. With this goober anything is possible. He should be taken out of the Case Center with todays trash never to return. His utter incompetence should scare everyone in this university.

  23. Running Wolf 11/30/2006 at 4:22 PM #

    I was a Head Hunter in a former life and the deal then and now is you contract or you pay upfront…unless LF slipped Neinas $35K under the table (NOT) it appears no contract is in play. So what if Neinas got BC or someone else we have talked to in the last 24 months…you still have to make a deal, contract and a whole lot of other issues that makes it so easy when you use a third party…all I’m saying is…let a professional drive the search and everyone will be a winner including LF.

  24. Mr O 11/30/2006 at 4:25 PM #

    RAWFS: I forgot all about his graduation rates. Seriously, there may not be a guy out there, including Cowher with the lack of college experience, who would be a better fit to be successful at NC State. I don’t know his personality, but you would have to think that the BOT and chancellor would love his image as far as academics. As far as our fans, I think we would clearly embrace him because he has won and he employs an exciting, disciplined brand of football.

    Tom O’Brien fits our job as well as any candidate I can think of that we MIGHT be able to actually hire.

    Of course, he may have zero interest and/or the ACC might not allow it to happen. IMO, he is worth more than any candidate we have on the board so if we are really talking about giving PJ(making $1 million) a significant enough raise to leave Navy and pay a buyout, then we should be willing to break the bank for O’Brien.

  25. Woof Wolf 11/30/2006 at 4:28 PM #

    Not to dwell on the Georgia situation too long, but the relations between boosters, fan base, and athletics vs adminstration have been more dysfuntional over the last 17 years than we have ever thought about being. One of the real ironies was that Adams fired Donnan over Dooley’s recommendation and then overruled Vince and hired the already proven crook, Harrick.

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