Lowe Era Begins with Tough Win Over Wofford

NC State 92
Wofford 88

Boxscore | N&O Recap | Season Beginning Entry

Quite a few things happened to night to further signal the transition from the Herb Sendek era to the Sidney Lowe era:

(1) State scored 92 points for the game and is averaging 86 points per game in our three outings thusfar this season (2 exhibition)

(2) State scored 52 points in the paint for the game! (Compare that to Arizona State’s 56 total points for an entire game in a 5 point win over University of Victoria the other other night)

(3) State shot less than 20 three pointers in a game.

(4) State is not a good defensive team.

(5) State had no offensive droughts where the Pack failed to score for a prolonged time period.

(6) State actually came from behind to win…

(7) …to win a close game!

GoPack said:

Engin Atsur‘s go-ahead layup with 43.2 seconds remaining gave NC State the lead and his free throws with 2.9 seconds left sealed the victory as the Wolfpack made new coach Sidney Lowe’s debut a success in a 92-88 win over Wofford Friday night at the RBC Center.

* Engin Atsur scored 24 points and provided the Wolfpack its only source of scoring in the first few minutes of the game.

* Ben McCauley is becoming a beast. He scored 26 points, pulled in 5 rebounds and handed out 4 assists while shooting 10 of 13 from the floor.

* Bryan Nieman and Dennis Horner combined for the only 27 minutes of play provided by the bench as the starters carried the load. Of the starters, only Brandon Costner played less than 34 minutes (with 26 minutes).

* State shot 55% from the field for the game and held Wofford to 35% shooting in the second half after surrendering a blistering 65% in the first half to the visitors.

I thought that these comments were some of the best I have seen on the web:

We gave up 34 points in the second half . . . that isn’t exactly giving it away. 68 points a game from our oppenents is something I would welcome.

For a team that has no depth, a new coach, a new system, and a frontcourt that has basically no experience before this year, I’ll take it.

A game where they had to fight to come back, make some in-game adjustments, and learn to listen to and trust their new coach will ultimately be MUCH better for the team than a 30 point blowout.

Nice job hanging in there and getting Sidney his first win, guys. And for those people who are already posting “I can’t wait for Sidney to get his recruits in here”, consider supporting and enjoying the guys we have this year. Ben, Brandon, Courtney, Engin, Gavin, Dennis, and Trevor aren’t exactly scrubs.

By the way, we shot 62% from 2-point range and only took 18 3 pointers for the game. We scored consistently across the whole game and got to the foul line regularly. Nice.

Just win, baby

Additionally, the following comments were provided by some of our readers in a less relevant entry and we have moved them here:

1-0. Defense needs a lot of work. Great game by McCauley, but he can’t do that consistantly against the teams we have to play. Atsur had a great offensive game. We are going to need that every night

Looking for a bright spot, we won the second half 47-34. The theme for the year needs to be, “Any Win is a Good Win.�

For at least a week, Sid is the only undefeated N C State coach in recent history. Tracy Smith, Tracy Smith, Tracy Smith

We dodged a bullet. What a relief. We have a week to work on defense so we won’t get such a scare from Delaware State.

Our offense certainly did well. McCauley had a stud game. (Good thing we never got to see him play last year.) Atsur must be feeling okay, because he was awesome tonight. Everyone chipped in offensively. But we have A LOT of work to do to get to .500.

I think that you guys are missing the point about tonight. It has been a long time since a Wolfpack Squad has come from behind in that fashion.They did not quit.I am not crowning them, by any means, but I am viewing this as a positive attitude change..500 is reasonable I think, although it is still too early to tell what the competition will look like.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

06-07 Basketball General

85 Responses to Lowe Era Begins with Tough Win Over Wofford

  1. Rochester 11/11/2006 at 5:47 PM #

    Looks like our next game will be a challenge as well. Delaware State is the consensus No. 1 team in the MEAC this year. They have some good guards, in Jahsha Bluntt (the preseason MEAC player of the year) and point guard Darren Shine (preseason second team all-MEAC). Bluntt was an honorable mention All-American by the AP last year, and he put his name in for the NBA draft last spring before pulling out and returning to school. The Sporting News preseason magazine named forward Roy Bright as their MEAC newcomer of the year. Bright played at Garden City (Kan.) CC last year after starting his collegiate career at Cincinnati.

    This should be another game where we face a tough matchup because of good guards, though I don’t think they’re quite as pesky with the 3-ball as Wofford.

    How about this for a connection: Delaware State opens their season tonight against St. Paul’s–the school where Sidney Lowe got finished his degree this spring. They also play at No. 5 Pitt on Tuesday, so we should have some idea how good they are by the time they roll into Raleigh on Friday.

  2. Rochester 11/11/2006 at 6:04 PM #

    One more Delaware State note. Their non-conference schedule has to be one of the toughest in the country. According to ESPN.com, they play at No. 5 Pitt (11/14), at NC State (11/17), at Missouri State (11/19), at No. 9 Wisconsin (11/21), at Purdue (12/2), at No. 17 Marquette (12/5), at Michigan (12/9), at Buffalo (12/21), and at Baylor (12/30). That is ambitious. With training like that, don’t forget about them in your 16-1 game next March.

  3. 82grad 11/11/2006 at 6:16 PM #

    keep level heads guys, it was WOFFORD for god’s sake. we’re going to take some poundings this year so don’t get so excited with all this “sidney’s undefeated” crap.

  4. Woof Wolf 11/11/2006 at 8:22 PM #

    You think we don’t know where we are and who we are this year?

    What’s wrong with a little having a little fun and being excited about the possiblities for the future?

  5. doug 11/11/2006 at 9:04 PM #

    check out this web page, regarding the top ten historical b-ball programs in the nation

    http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=606380

  6. Gene 11/11/2006 at 11:46 PM #

    He’s a Herbite.

    Nope. I’m glad Herb left. He did what he could do for the team and it was time to move on to a new coach. I do think some folks, vented 15 years of pent up frustration out on Herb. Herb deserved criticism for not doing better than he did, at times, but if folks want to justify lack of success this year by saying, “comparing the mess Sendek/Fowler left…” , while being critical of Herb grinding out a winning season with a lot less talent on the first year he was here, I’m not buying it. Give Herb credit, when it’s due and be critical when it’s deserved. Getting a winning season out of that team and making it to the NIT’s was a lot more success than we had the 5 years prior and more than anyone expected.

    That worked in a lot of ways, but it also ruined us on the recruiting trail

    I’m sure Herb’s slow down offense, when he had a good reason – lack of personnel, lack of depth, and injuries – hurt much more than the 5 straight losing seaons Les Robinson had and the years of last place ACC finishes. Like I said, you can fairly blame Herb for not doing some things as a coach, like blowing big leads, going away from players who were hot, teams that couldn’t rebound for nuts, etc. but like Lowe is this year, Herb tried to make the best out of a bad situation, when he got here.

    Pointing out the OBVIOUS is not making excuses.

    From Tim Peeler on GoPack.Com http://tinyurl.com/yht4wt:

    “Lowe didn’t have many kind words for his defense when the team was in the lockerroom at halftime, however. The Terriers built a 54-45 advantage at intermission by burying a variety of outside shots. They made 11 of 19 in the first half, including one Nichols as the buzzer sounded to give Wofford its biggest lead of the night.”

    From Coach Lowe’s post game comments:

    “We were very passive in the first half,â€? Lowe said. “We were much more aggressive in the second half, and got into passing lanes. We really bothered the dribbler a little better and made it more difficult to get into their stuff.â€?

    From Lowe’s post game comments after the NSU Game:

    “We talk about winning the game on defense,� Lowe said. “My guys know I don’t worry about the offensive end, as long as we are not turning the ball over. I feel if we get good shots, hopefully, we will knock those down. But the defensive end is not a hot-cold thing. You can play hard on defense every night. That’s what we are preaching to our guys, that the defensive end is where you win ball games.�

    As per Coach Lowe, we were “passive” in the first half against Wofford, on defense and he wants this team to “play hard on defense every night”. I’m not the only person, who thinks the defense needs to improve and believes this team has to “play hard every night”, in order to be competitive. We did not “play hard” on defense against Wofford, for a full 40 minutes, as per Coach Lowe.

  7. nycfan 11/12/2006 at 1:41 AM #

    One stat the fans have to fix is attendance. Just getting back from a sold -out (and I must say badly mismanaged general admission) exhibition game between Pfeiffer and UNC, seeing that just under 9600 Wolfpack fans were there for Lowe’s first REAL game is pretty startling. I know, it was the Friday night b/4 a road game at Clemson and no one at NCSU promoted the game, but that is frankly pretty terrible (and all about fan issues, not coaching issues).

    I honestly assumed there would be at least a 3/4 crowd for Lowe’s first game.

  8. StateFans 11/12/2006 at 11:43 AM #

    ^ I understand your perspective. But, 10,000 folks for a game like this at most programs in the country isn’t bad at all. As I previously stated, it will be more people than attend a game at Duke all year.

    It would be interesting to hear about how many of the student seats were empty.

  9. swedish 11/12/2006 at 2:20 PM #

    go to TWW, theres a great highlight video from a user.

  10. mroli 11/12/2006 at 2:50 PM #

    i was at the game… a few comments:

    1) student section opposite the cheerleaders was 3/4 full, sides were 90% full and the cheerleader sections were basically empty.

    2) We did hit a stretch in the last 4-5 minutes where we could not score, but it only lasted short time. We had a hard time pulling ahead until the very end.

    3) Wofford is better than people give them credit for. They were also on fire. They reminded me of Virginia.

    4) Defense was very lax. In fact, we probably should have been down by one with 5 secs to go. Grant lost his man, and they had a wide open look at a three which rimmed out. Given the previous shooting, we were very lucky.

    5) I believe that we will uncork a couple of unexpected wins, but that the year is going to be a struggle. No worries from me though. It was fun to watch. There were multiple steals/dunks that kept them in the game. Very exciting.

    6) Ben M is going to be a very good player.

    7) If anyone fouls out or gets hurt, we’re in a heap of trouble. Sidney should drop some pounds and get a jersey 😉

    Chris

  11. ShootingGuard 11/12/2006 at 5:02 PM #

    “if folks want to justify lack of success this year by saying, “comparing the mess Sendek/Fowler left…â€? , while being critical of Herb grinding out a winning season with a lot less talent on the first year he was here, I’m not buying it.”

    If you don’t think Herb/Fowler left Sid with a total mess, you ARE a Herbite. Herb finally left State because he knew how bad we would suck this year. You don’t leave an ACC program with 2 NCAA Titles to “rebuild” a school with zero history in the desert unless you know a train wreck is ahead and the getting is as good as it is going to get. The only difference in what State would have had if he had come back are 2 freshmen recruits.

    “Give Herb credit, when it’s due and be critical when it’s deserved.”

    Herb’s a smart guy. To his credit, he left before disaster struck him again this year as it did in Year 5. A very smart guy…

    “Getting a winning season out of that team and making it to the NIT’s was a lot more success than we had the 5 years prior and more than anyone expected.”

    Every State fan in America gave Herb incredible praise after that first year and thought we were on the way to something great on the order of the second coming of Rick Pitino. Unfortunately, not much went right after that—partly due to a lot of bad luck but also partly due to a young coach making a lot of mistakes early and refusing to change later.

    “That worked in a lot of ways, but it also ruined us on the recruiting trail”

    Byron Mouton and others publicly expressed their desire NOT to play the ugly basketball that Herb was putting out in those early years. I don’t really care what Mouton thinks about anything, but that was the reputation State had in the recruiting world at that time. Other coaches used it against Herb. After that very ugly ball those first couple years, no one believed that he was going to ever go uptempo like Pitino as he had once promised—and, guess what, Herb never did. Lowe may ultimately fail, but he is taking his chances with the losses to feature an uptempo game and, so far, the recruits are responding.

    “I’m sure Herb’s slow down offense, when he had a good reason – lack of personnel, lack of depth, and injuries – hurt much more than the 5 straight losing seaons Les Robinson had and the years of last place ACC finishes.”

    You have a good point about Les’ bad results impacting Herb’s early results, but, unfortunately for your argument, after 10 years of featuring his product, Herb was overwhelmingly voted the LAST coach in the ACC that opposing players would want to play for by the opposing players themselves. Herb found a rare exception like Hodge and Wright here and there, but, overall not enough to have great success, the top kids from 1996-2001 didn’t like Herb ugly ball, and the top kids from 2001-2006 didn’t want to play Herb PO ball.

    “I’m not the only person, who thinks the defense needs to improve and believes this team has to “play hard every nightâ€?, in order to be competitive.”

    Every State fan in America knows we need to play better defense in order to have any hope of winning many games this year. You just obviously have never played basketball on an undermanned team where you have to conserve fouls—it is VERY difficult to play great defense when you have to worry about fouling. You also miss the obvious of what Lowe has to tell the media PR wise—OF COURSE he is stressing defense and he doesn’t want to be typecast as a poor defensive coach like Skip Prosser by the media but at the same time he is also telling the guys to limit their fouls. They may have gone too far in keeping off of guys in trying to limit fouls and Lowe had to tell them to get more aggressive, but none of that has to do with a lack of effort as you are describing. Lowe is going to walk a fine line all season long with this team trying to play good defense while keeping guys off the bench with fouls. If you can’t see the difficult line between playing tough defense and limiting fouls, then you either (1) have never played organized basketball before (2) are delusional, or (3) are a Herbite with an alternative agenda.

  12. RickJ 11/12/2006 at 6:38 PM #

    ^Lowe definitely inherited a mess but he has everything in place to be very successful. A bad AD has never kept an elite coach from succeeding. Look no further than Baddour & Aleva as examples. It certainly doesn’t hurt to have a great AD.

    “Herb was overwhelmingly voted the LAST coach in the ACC that opposing players would want to play for by the opposing players themselves.”

    I remember seeing this item and can definitely believe it is true however strange and doubtful it is that anyone actually asked a reliable sample of ACC players. It is ironic that the best transfer out of the ACC, former McDonald’s All American Eric Boateng ended up with Herb. Maybe the survey didn’t include him.

  13. legacyman 11/12/2006 at 7:03 PM #

    Maybe Boateng wanted to get as far away from real basketball as he could…

  14. Rochester 11/12/2006 at 7:25 PM #

    Speaking of transfers, imagine our current roster minus Grant and/or Fells, but with Werner and Davis. That’s what we’d probably have if Herb came back. Sure he’d have gotten all three of his recruits to campus, but with what Grant and Fells have said about how happy they are to be playing in an up-tempo (i.e. normal) system it’s not hard to imagine one or both would have abandoned the S.S. Sendek if he hadn’t left for ASU.

    That’s what really kills me about the national media acting as though everything fell apart because we “chased him out of town.” The reality is, things would be worse if he had stuck around, this year and in the future. Simmons would still have gone to the NBA and Brackman would still be playing baseball only. I want Sid to land an awesome recruiting class to both turn things around and to shut up the G—- D—-‘s of the world.

    The Boateng thing is puzzling for sure. You have to wonder if he wasn’t significantly overrated coming out of high school. Either way, best of luck to him in Tempe.

  15. vtpackfan 11/12/2006 at 7:43 PM #

    I guess playing only seven in an OOC isn’t too bad considering it will be eight with Fergueson. We will have to find a way to play one or two more during ACC games, especially when Duke and UNX gets there customary 25 free throw attempts. It doesn’t bother me much, the games pretty simple and it states you need five guys on the court to play.

  16. xphoenix87 11/12/2006 at 9:33 PM #

    “Herb finally left State because he knew how bad we would suck this year. You don’t leave an ACC program with 2 NCAA Titles to “rebuildâ€? a school with zero history in the desert unless you know a train wreck is ahead and the getting is as good as it is going to get.”

    It probably had nothing to do with the fact that a vocal portion of the fan base hated him and that he got offered ridiculous amounts of money to coach at ASU. You’re right, Herb probably intentionally screwed us and left before things got tough, because he has such a history of being spiteful and mean. [/sarcasm]

    “The only difference in what State would have had if he had come back are 2 freshmen recruits.”

    Two freshmen who were both highly recruited and both ended up at good basketball programs.

    “Unfortunately, not much went right after that”

    Yeah, making the NCAA tournament 5 straight times and getting to the Sweet 16 sucks.

    Don’t get me wrong, there were a lot of things I thought Herb did wrong, and I think the program probably did need to move in a different direction, but it’s very popular to bash Herb these days without giving him any credit where it is undoubtably due. There is absolutely no question that Sid is coming into a better situation than what Les left for Herb. No way does Sid land those high-profile recruits without Herb’s going to 5 straight NCAA tourneys. It might not reflect in this year, but the program is much better off as a whole since Herb was here. Say what you want about how boring he was, but the fact is that for the last 5 years we went to the NCAAs, almost always played well in the ACC tourney, and had ~20 wins each year. By the way, Herb’s .500 record in the NCAAs is better than those of Skip Prosser, Al Skinner, and Kelvin Sampson, to name a few higher profile coaches. Like I said, I think we needed to make a change, since Herb wasn’t the exciting personality that everyone obviously wanted, he wasn’t going to contend for an national title any time in the forseeable future, and his style was boring. However, to keep taking shots at him is stupid. We won games under Sendek, and if he wasn’t exciting, he was always classy.

    As for the defense thing (I don’t expect most people to care about this because you’ve probably labeled me as a “stupid herbite” by now), it’s all good and well to say that the team is working hard on defense now at the beginning of a new season under a new coach, but the real question is will they be playing hard defense when they start to trail by 15 in a conference game. I’ve been on a losing squad before, and it sucks. Your motivation for playing defense doesn’t come very easily when you’re on the road and you’re tired and the other team is winning by 10+. It’s one thing to say that the team is giving a lot of effort on defense, but effort and focus are two entirely different things, and playing “hard” defense requires both of those. Gavin in particular has a history of trouble with his focus, and from what I saw of Costner, he looked like he might fall into that category as well. You can run and run and run, but you’re not necessarily playing “hard” defense. every basketball team in the nation is going to give effort, it’s keeping focus at all times, even when the other team gets on a roll, that defines a defense.

  17. Gene 11/12/2006 at 10:16 PM #

    Every State fan in America knows we need to play better defense in order to have any hope of winning many games this year.

    Glad you finally agree.

    They may have gone too far in keeping off of guys in trying to limit fouls and Lowe had to tell them to get more aggressive, but none of that has to do with a lack of effort as you are describing.

    Call it lack of aggression, but the bottom line is we aren’t playing good defense. My comments were based on what I interpeted Lowe’s post game comments to mean and the uncontested shots I saw this team give up. My comments also stem from the fact that fans are going to give Lowe and this team a free pass, this year, when there are times criticism of Lowe and this team could be justified. I’m willing to let this year ride, but I do think we have enough talent to handle smaller schools. Lowe doesn’t have a proven track record as a head coach, though he has a lot of coaching experience. If I think he’s not getting through to his players, and getting them to play “the rigth way”, I’ll wonder if he will be the coach we want. I don’t want to raise him to Sainthood, like some fans did with Amato, before he actually wins something.

    If you can’t see the difficult line between playing tough defense and limiting fouls, then you either (1) have never played organized basketball before (2) are delusional, or (3) are a Herbite with an alternative agenda.

    Never played organized basketball at any significant level. You have me there. Sorry for not being a hardcore Herb-hater. I’m glad he left. He had his shortcomings as a coach, but he did improve the program and there’s no guarantee that would’ve happened.

    If you don’t think Herb/Fowler left Sid with a total mess, you ARE a Herbite.

    Re-read what I wrote, I didn’t say this years team doesn’t have issues. But if you think we are in a mess now, than why did you find ways to put down the reference I made to the ’96-’97 team, because we were more of a mess back than and that team did play hard and did beat all expectations. Why pointing that out has to bring out some latent Herb-bashing, is beyond me. The ’96-’97 team was Herb’s finest coaching job, while at NCSU (which is part of the problem, with Herb’s tenure at NCSU).

    You don’t leave an ACC program with 2 NCAA Titles to “rebuild� a school with zero history in the desert unless you know a train wreck is ahead and the getting is as good as it is going to get.

    You do if they offer you $500,000 more a year. Herb’s leaving was good for him and good for us. Unless you think Lee would’ve fired him, than you are delusional 🙂 Who cares why Herb went to the desert, it was good timing for the fans, for him and for our basketball program.

    Lowe may ultimately fail, but he is taking his chances with the losses to feature an uptempo game and, so far, the recruits are responding.

    Recruits responded to Lowe before he even held his first team practice! The man does seem to have charisma.

  18. ShootingGuard 11/12/2006 at 10:50 PM #

    “It probably had nothing to do with the fact that a vocal portion of the fan base hated him and that he got offered ridiculous amounts of money to coach at ASU.” You’re right, Herb probably intentionally screwed us and left before things got tough, because he has such a history of being spiteful and mean.”

    Oh, so Herb is simply a wuss and a money monger according to you…what a great “character quotient”!!

    “You’re right, Herb probably intentionally screwed us and left before things got tough, because he has such a history of being spiteful and mean.”

    I never said that at all…please read more thoroughly next time.

    “Two freshmen who were both highly recruited and both ended up at good basketball programs.”

    “Yeah, making the NCAA tournament 5 straight times and getting to the Sweet 16 sucks.”

    Blowing it to UConn, blowing it to Cal, blowing it to Vandy, blowing it to Wisconsin, and getting destroyed by Texas did SUCK. Watching Maryland win a national championship with Wilcox, who Herb passed on, sucked—especially since those were Herb’s “great” years. So did watching Georgia Tech go to a Final Four and Wake Forest finish first in the ACC regular season during Herb’s “great” years. National championships by Duke and UNC on Herb’s watch also sucks—especially since UNC opened the door for Herb to make some progress while Matt D was at the wheel over at UNC. Watching Hewitt getting it cranked up for another run with Young and Critt sucks. Watching UVA go to the NCAA’s with a 2nd year coach is going to suck, if it happens, after waiting 6 years on Herb. Sorry, all those BCA Classic victories and 1 great victory over UConn in 10 yrs does not overcome this much suck.

    “Two freshmen who were both highly recruited and both ended up at good basketball programs.”

    Yeah, that means so much after watching equally or higher rated recruits like Scooter, Marcus, Simmons, Grant, and Fells sit the bench for their entire freshman years—and entire sophomore years in some cases. And, oh, by the way, if Seton Hall was such a great program, why did they fire their coach?? I guess beating Herb like a drum meant very little from a success standpoint…

    YOU ARE NOT A HERB HATER JUST BECAUSE YOU HATE NEVER WINNING OR COMPETING FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS OF ANY KIND AND HATE BLOWING LEADS AND HATE SEEING LATE SEASON SWOONS AND EARLY NCAA EXITS!!!!!

  19. xphoenix87 11/12/2006 at 11:48 PM #

    “Oh, so Herb is simply a wuss and a money monger according to you…what a great “character quotientâ€?!!”

    If you were in a job where bunches of your clients complained about your work all the time and you got offered another job where you made $500,000 more a year and were all but guaranteed that your work would be appreciated, would you take it? I think all of us could be accused of being “wusses” and “money mongers”

    “Blowing it to UConn, blowing it to Cal, blowing it to Vandy, blowing it to Wisconsin, and getting destroyed by Texas did SUCK.”

    The only one of those games we were favored in was the Vandy game. We were a heck of a lot closer to UConn than we had any business being, and that game and the Cal game were two of the best and closest finishes of NCAA tourney games in recent memory.

    “Watching Maryland win a national championship with Wilcox, who Herb passed on, sucked—especially since those were Herb’s “greatâ€? years.”

    except that it was Blake, Dixon and Baxter who won that championship, Wilcox was a role player. Most Maryland fans would probably tell you it sucked to not go to the NCAAs the past two years.

    “So did watching Georgia Tech go to a Final Four and Wake Forest finish first in the ACC regular season during Herb’s “greatâ€? years.”

    Again, it sucked to be a Tech fan last year when they won 12 games, or when they got blown out by Louisville the year before, and how they were an NIT team the year before that Final Four run. For the Deacons, how about the fact that they were absolutely terrible last year despite ridiculous talent, and the fact that despite Josh Howard and Chris Paul over these last few years, they haven’t gotten further than the sweet 16 either.

    “National championships by Duke and UNC on Herb’s watch also sucks”

    Yeah, it sucks that two of the top 5 college basketball programs of all time won chamionships while Herb was coach. It’s obviously his fault!!!

    “Watching UVA go to the NCAA’s with a 2nd year coach is going to suck, if it happens, after waiting 6 years on Herb.”

    The same 2nd year coach who inherited Sean Singletary and J.R. Reynolds? Last time I checked, Herb didn’t inherit All-American caliber players.

    Yeah, Ced absolutely sucked his sophomore season.

    “YOU ARE NOT A HERB HATER JUST BECAUSE YOU HATE NEVER WINNING OR COMPETING FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS OF ANY KIND AND HATE BLOWING LEADS AND HATE SEEING LATE SEASON SWOONS AND EARLY NCAA EXITS!!!!!”

    You are a Herb Hater if you fail to realize what he did for the program and mindlessly deride him as a bad coach. He didn’t fit well at a big-time program and I’m glad that he’s gone to a better situation and there’s a different look here at State. We would be in a much worse situation without Herb having come than we are now, and I bet ASU is going to be pleased with the coach they got. He didn’t fit here, it doesn’t mean he’s a bad coach and it doesn’t mean that he didn’t significantly help this program in the right direction.

  20. vtpackfan 11/13/2006 at 1:00 AM #

    Who’s Herb? Is that what the student section calls the big Polish guy? “PUT IN HERB! WE WANT HERB!”

  21. ShootingGuard 11/13/2006 at 2:13 AM #

    “The only one of those games we were favored in was the Vandy game.”

    I guess we should all relish the fact that we lost the only game we were favored in as well as all of the games we weren’t favored in…So much for aspiring to accomplish anything…Good thing Norm Sloan and Jimmy V didn’t set the LOSER bar like you apparently do…

    “We were a heck of a lot closer to UConn than we had any business being”

    Oh, so playing good teams “close” is our goal?? That’s a loser goal if there ever was one. I’m sure we would all be happy if Norm Sloan had been content with playing UCLA “close” or Jimmy V gave Sid and the guys pep talks about finishing “close” to UNC, UVA, UNLV, UVA again, and Houston…

    “and that game (UConn) and the Cal game were two of the best and closest finishes of NCAA tourney games in recent memory”

    That must be why ESPN Classic plays those games continuously during March Madness…(SARCASM)…If you consider LOSING as “best”, then I am sure you play your tapes of those games over and over for your enjoyment…In contrast, I don’t think most State fans—nor ESPN—have much air time for most of Herb’s “great” end game “highlights” such as Marcus Melvin, poised beyond his years due to “great” coaching, throwing the ball away and then fouling a guy from behind for an intentional foul and a several point swing that led to an historic NCAA choke that even ESPN is kind enough not to play…

    “except that it was Blake, Dixon and Baxter who won that championship, Wilcox was a role player.”

    You were obviously too busy watching all of our “great” losses to teams favored to beat us and all of our “great” kept it “close” games to notice how Chris Wilcox came alive down the stretch that season and into the tournament. Maryland doesn’t win that title without Wilcox. I guess you write Michael Jordan and Jimmy Black off as “role” players in 1982??

    “Again, it sucked to be a Tech fan last year when they won 12 games”

    No, most Tech fans weren’t that bent out of shape because they had confidence that Paul Hewitt would be able to reload on the recruiting trail for another NCAA Tourney run. This is much like how I felt in 1984 when State missed the tournament. I was disappointed but not distraught because I knew Jimmy V had what it took to get us back in contention, and, not surprisingly, 2 more Elite 8’s, an S16, and an ACC Title awaited. Highs and lows are fine—that’s the risk-reward tradeoff as far as I am concerned—flatlining or just finishing “close” or losing when you are supposed to lose like you seem to like is what I and most other fans hate. Consistently just doing good enough or finishing “close” but never actually winning anything of note is really for losers…

    “The same 2nd year coach who inherited Sean Singletary and J.R. Reynolds? Last time I checked, Herb didn’t inherit All-American caliber players.”

    Actually, Osh Benjamin was rated as one of the best pg’s in the country coming out of high school (like Singletary) and CC Harrison was no slouch (ala Reynolds). The difference is that Leito is making Cain look like an All-American and looks like he will get a lot out of “all-american calibre players” like Diane whereas Herb never could make much out of Thornton, Inge, and the rest. And to the credit of Hoo fans, they don’t have to offer up the injury excuse since they just beat Arizona with a one-eyed Reynolds whereas Herbite “keep it close” LOSERS would probably have had to say WTNY after a beating at the hands of a bad Providence team or similar loss in year 2…

    “Yeah, Ced absolutely sucked his sophomore season.”

    Not sure where that came from, but, apparently, only Coach K knew the greatness of Ced Simmons since he, unlike Herb, was the only coach to run the offense through Ced last year…

    “You are a Herb Hater if you fail to realize what he did for the program and mindlessly deride him as a bad coach. He didn’t fit well at a big-time program and I’m glad that he’s gone to a better situation and there’s a different look here at State. We would be in a much worse situation without Herb having come than we are now, and I bet ASU is going to be pleased with the coach they got. He didn’t fit here, it doesn’t mean he’s a bad coach and it doesn’t mean that he didn’t significantly help this program in the right direction.”

    Herb, is that you?? Seriously, that sounds like a sappy Lifetime Movie about Herb. I have always given Herb credit for the good he has done at State and defended him plenty of times, but you should expect your obvious hero in a twisted fan lovefest to take some barbs if you—and others—are going to persist on belittling what Sid is trying to do by comparing it in a negative slant with what Herb “the great” had to deal with and/or accomplished.

    xphoenix, I am not going to argue with you anymore, but a few words of life advice and a fact you won’t get in the newspaper headlines (because no one really cares that much about ASU bball or your hero):

    (1) Don’t be afraid to just let things go…

    (2) You are never going to be offered a job that would pay you $500,000 a year more than your present position if you only aspire to meet expectations (i.e. lose when you are supposed to) or finish “close” to but not ahead of the competition. Setting goals like that is for losers, and losers don’t get $500,000 pay raises…

    (3) Hate to break it to you, but Herb isn’t making $500,000 more at ASU…

  22. Gene 11/13/2006 at 5:31 AM #

    Wilcox, who Herb passed on

    Bull, I went to Enloe. Herb tried to recruit both Wilcox and Bell, but lost out on Wilcox.

    YOU ARE NOT A HERB HATER JUST BECAUSE YOU HATE NEVER WINNING OR COMPETING FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS OF ANY KIND AND HATE BLOWING LEADS AND HATE SEEING LATE SEASON SWOONS AND EARLY NCAA EXITS!!!!!

    You are a Herb hater because you’re pissed off we’re not as relevant to the balance of power, in the ACC, as we were from the 1950’s through the 1980’s, though due to powers beyond Herb’s control, we quickly became irrelevant in the ACC, in the 1990’s. You refuse to accept Herb left this program in much better shape, than when he got here. I don’t believe you are guaranteed success because you have had success in the past. We could’ve been to basketball, what Duke is to ACC football – a once powerful program that totally sucks ass – with bad coaching hires.

    Herb never could make much out of Thornton, Inge, and the rest.

    Being critical of Herb’s inability to develop players is a fair criticism.

    Watching Maryland win a national championship with Wilcox, who Herb passed on, sucked—especially since those were Herb’s “great� years. So did watching Georgia Tech go to a Final Four and Wake Forest finish first in the ACC regular season during Herb’s “great� years. National championships by Duke and UNC on Herb’s watch also sucks

    If Herb had the talent to make a championshiop run and failed, I could understand how watching Maryland, Ga. Tech, UNC and Duke succeed, can be frustrating, but we didn’t have teams that were heavily favored to contend for anything at the beginning of the year. But hating on the man, simply because other teams have success isn’t rational.

    Did Herb to the best he could? Yes. Do I want more success than what Herb could’ve gotten us? Yes. I’m glad he’s gone. I’m glad we have a new coach, because Herb had done what he could.

    There’s no guarantee Lowe will keep up with other teams success either. But if he does some positive things for this program and leaves it in better shape than when he got here, I will not refuse to give him credit where it is due.

    And to the credit of Hoo fans, they don’t have to offer up the injury excuse

    Virginia is only able to suit up 8 players, like NCSU, in Herb’s first couple of seasons?

    I don’t here anyone justify the loss to Vandy, because Scooter, our best perimeter defender, was injured.

    Get a grip. Herb wasn’t the worst thing to happen to NCSU basketball. He wasn’t the best either.

  23. Chief93 11/13/2006 at 9:20 AM #

    sorry. DISingenuous.

  24. ShootingGuard 11/13/2006 at 12:12 PM #

    Ok, one more for Gene, and I am done with whizzing matches with guys who have never been a part of organized basketball at any level (Gene’s own words)…

    “You are a Herb hater”

    Nope. Not at all. I just hate seeing HerbExtremists continually slice at Lowe, a Pack legend everyone should support, with comments about all of the “great” things Herb did in 1997 and how much “worse” Herb had it. As if any of that matters at all to TODAY and what Lowe—or any other coach at State—needs to do to actually compete for championships rather than settling for finishing “close” or losing when Vegas oddsmakers say we should…

    “If Herb had the talent to make a championshiop run and failed, I could understand”

    You do understand that recruiting is part of the job, right?? You do understand that Gary Williams rebuilt Maryland out of the Bob Wade ashes, right?? You do understand that Herb had 10 years to accumulate the talent and make a run, right??

    “Virginia is only able to suit up 8 players, like NCSU, in Herb’s first couple of seasons?”

    Herb ran off several players the day he set foot on campus including Ivan Wagner who had a nice career at Texas, Marco Harrison who was a big man, and Andre McCollum who had a nice career at ODU. I’m not saying those guys were great, but you can’t run scholarship guys off and then whine about not having enough bodies (I said the same thing about Pete Gillen when he did the exact same thing). Even without those guys, Herb had more than 8 players on his bench to “suit up” in year 1 and especially in year 2 with his 6 man freshman class (do you actually research what you say??). Regardless, in year 1, Leito led his clods to a victory over UNC—something Herb couldn’t do in year 1 with the lineup he chose to reduce or year 10 with the lineup he had years to build…

    “Get a grip.”

    Get a brain…The holidays are coming up, so go to Amazon and buy an instructional book on basketball defense so you can understand the difference between (1) giving effort but not playing smart or using effort wisely on defense, and (2) giving effort and playing smart to capitalize on energy and intensity on defense. Also, buy a book on Maryland’s history so you can understand what Gary Williams was doing while Herb was recruiting and loading up for “greatness” with guys like Ron Anderson, Rouldra Thomas, Adam Harrington, Keith Bean, Marshall Williams, Damien Wilkins, etc. who propelled the program to heights never seen before…

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. The ACC Basketblog - 11/13/2006

    The Daily Roundup

    We’re tracking this story on the Basketblog. Get over there!!!

Leave a Reply