Blood In The Water- Tudor & Dascenzo Fire Away (Updated 10:30am)

“Other than his love for his school, lively personality and work with the defensive unit, there’s not a compelling argument to be made for giving Amato more time.” (Caulton Tudor)

Dascenzo: Amato’s stock isn’t on the rise

Ah Chuck, this is late November and you’re standing across the field from that light blue color, the one that your Wolfpack Nation doesn’t like very much and dearly loves to have the upper hand against. Ah Chuck, this is THE game on your schedule every year, and you’re going to be remembered for the outcome of every time you play these guys.

Somewhere along the way to Chapel Hill, the Wolfpack’s offense got lost and never could be found. Marc Trestman is N.C. State’s offensive coordinator, and he likely has had better days than this one. Ah Marc, you’re in this too, buddy.

N.C. State’s facilities are excellent, football is a popular sport in Raleigh and basketball is rebuilding with new coach Sidney Lowe.

N.C. State looked undisciplined, unsure of everything and anything on offense. And its defense, especially early on, was stuffed by UNC’s running game.

You couldn’t find a positive within Amato’s team on this day. It lacked imagination on offense but, more importantly, it lacked execution. And those nine penalties will not set well with Amato or his coaches.

Tudor: Loss puts Amato in hot water

The end result of the Tar Heels’ 23-9 victory could well be that Amato soon joins Bunting in the unemployed ranks.

That Amato is in trouble — big, loud trouble — isn’t the question. He is.

The question is: Can he survive and return to coach his alma mater for an eighth season in 2007?

Amato, today, is where Bunting was after UNC dropped successive games to South Florida (37-20) and Virginia (23-0) in mid-October. He was fired three days later.

It’s right that Amato should be in this trouble, too. In the three seasons since quarterback Philip Rivers graduated, the Wolfpack’s offense has fallen into such a state of disrepair and misdirection that it’s illogical to assume that a great deal is going to change between now and September.

The more you read of Tudor’s article the more home runs that he hits and nails that he hammers. The following point couldn’t be more common-sensical and more on the money!!! In fact, the quote is one of the key management dictums that (during the Sendek years) proved Lee Fowler’s inadequacy to be an Athletics Director at a major University.

There’s a chance Amato will get another year. But if so, it would be a plunge into purgatory marked by a weekly referendum on his fate. N.C. State would have 12 games, each a certifiable crisis until the coach either won or lost enough games to make the eventual decision a moot issue.

In this entry after yesterday’s game, BJD shared the following information:

SFN has been been told by 2 independent sources that Chuck Amato would be fired if Chuck loses out (and maybe if he just lost today). Oblinger is ready to make the move and the big donors are squarely (not sure if unanimously) behind him. I’m putting this out there because the pressure needs to be public and intense from this moment forward.

^The idea that State needed to lose two in a row before making a change bothered us to the core because we don’t understand the difference between losing out and simply losing one of these two. Big F*ing deal?

It feels EXACTLY like TYPICAL NC State cowardly management – let’s keep changing the standard and give (insert employee here) another chance by basing our decision on a completely subjective and irrelevant standard while ignoring years of history.

The quote that follows from Caulton Tudor are another way of sharing EXACTLY the way we feel —

The East Carolina game is 100% inconsequential at this point. Either you are pleased with the direction of the football program or you are not. What does a game against ECU have to do with that?

Another thanks to Tudor for getting this right:

Even a one-sided win over East Carolina wouldn’t be enough to change the dilemma ahead. The Pack’s ACC season is over at 2-6, good for last place in the Atlantic Division. The overall record can be no better than 4-8, and the offense has failed to score more than 24 points in a game this season.

If anything, East Carolina University serves as a model for NC State’s next steps; NOT a determining factor in our future.

Two years ago this week, NC State defeated a broken ECU program 52-14 to send the Pirates to a 2-9 season on the back of a 1-11 season. Terry Holland fired a coach that was only given two years (and showed improvement in year two!) and hired Skip Holtz. Two years later, ECU is competing for a conference championships and will be FAVORED in a game in Carter-Finley.

Note that the coach didn’t need five years of failure to get his recruits in and build the program. Note that the coach didn’t need $100MM of new facilities before his clock started. Note that the coach came into a program that had been failing miserably and not recruiting well and has immediately made an impact.

Perhaps someone in NC State’s athletics administration would like to start noting the way others run their departments.

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71 Responses to Blood In The Water- Tudor & Dascenzo Fire Away (Updated 10:30am)

  1. redfred2 11/19/2006 at 12:59 PM #

    “Perhaps someone in NC State’s athletics administration would like to start noting the way others run their departments.”

    I can hear them now, “Yeah, we all know what places like South Carolina and ECU have done recently, also what’s transpiring in Chapel Hill as we’re sitting here with our thumbs firmly planted in our do nothing asses. But do we really want to do that right now? Don’t forget, it’s a lot of work, and even more if we get some coach who actually expects something out of us. I thought Chuck would win yesterday, didn’t you Lee? Man!!! This is pretty unexpected and we really haven’t put too much thought into this so far. Let’s think hard about this people before we dive right in. Better yet, anybody got a quarter?”

    NC State can’t hire a Head Coach away from any other major university because NC State administration is not major university material. And it’s evident to the people they’re in contact with. They know enough good about NC State to listen for awhile, thinking about the Wolfpack of old and the ACC, but then their current bosses always counter with something that must sound a whole lot better, winning them back in the end. Why is that I wonder?

    We’ve hired coaches from the mid majors at best, and alums, when this place was at one time, at least a proving ground and a stepping stone to better. Now days coaches are lucky to have a job when they leave here.

    Whose fault is that?

  2. packgrad2000 11/19/2006 at 1:17 PM #

    The situation with CTC is VERY different than with Sendek. Sendek actually had a winning overall record, a winning ACC record, and went to the NCAA the past five seasons.

    SFN: Are you on crack? Sendek had a losing ACC record.

    More importantly though, Sendek ran a very well respected, disciplined program, the media thought very highly of him, and his fellow coaches had a great deal of respect for him. That’s why we got blasted by the national media for “running him out of town.”

    CTC is finishing dead last in the Atlantic division and has a dismal record. The media thinks he is a joke, he runs a very undisciplined program, and it’s obvious after his “non-qualifiers” comments after the Akron game there are at least a handful of coaches that can’t stand him.

    I could see how it would be hard to fire Sendek if I’m Oblinger, but Amato is an easy fire. He has absolutely nothing going for him and there’s really nobody pulling for him at this point.

  3. Texpack 11/19/2006 at 1:23 PM #

    The reason my “proclamation” is important is that it points to the biggest problem with NC State Athletics – Lee Fowler. Even your update puts Oblinger’s finger on the trigger, not Fowler’s.

  4. redfred2 11/19/2006 at 1:28 PM #

    “I could see how it would be hard to fire Sendek if I’m Oblinger”

    The you are Oblinger. And Fowler, and…, just one of the gang.

    The gang that has kept NC State DOWN and mired in mediocrity for a decade and a half.

    Who gives a crap about what the media thinks, or fellow coaches? Just because someone runs a business and pays his taxes on time without making waves or ruffling any feathers, does (((NOT))) make them successful.

    I do not say it, you will have that blatently pointed out to you shortly.

  5. BJD95 11/19/2006 at 1:52 PM #

    The pressure isn’t coming from Fowler, and the only threshhold we really need from Oblinger is to be WILLING. I understand that he is indeed willing to act.

    I care what Tudor is saying now because it helps us get rid of Amato. Idiot or not, he’s a useful ally on this one. We need all the allies we can get.

  6. Cardiff Giant 11/19/2006 at 1:56 PM #

    ^ I feel as if we are shacked to this terrible Athletic Director. There is not a person in the history of NC whom I detest more than I do Lee Fowler.

  7. gumbydammit 11/19/2006 at 2:00 PM #

    Tudor an ally? Puh-leez! Regardless of whether CTC should go or stay, Tudor should NEVER be viewed as an ally.

  8. redfred2 11/19/2006 at 2:01 PM #

    BJD95

    The media has been saying this same thing FOREVER. “#1 hotseat”, “worst coach in the country,” and on and on. Whatever the fans say, whatever the media says, it is not a factor. There is no other way out for those guys in Raleigh now, and they will use those factors to justify in hindsight only.

  9. Lunatic Inter-netter 11/19/2006 at 2:13 PM #

    RedFred is on to something. With Sendek, he endeared himself to the right people, even though none of the current powers that be were involved in his selection. He also ran a respectable program.

    With Amato, he has no allies that I see (other than Fowler, but that is only because he is a chickenshit–hardly what I would call an ally). Amato is of the Fox/Robinson era. Oblinger has no ties or affiliations with that hiring decision, so lowering the axe will not be difficult.

    Lets hope, at least.

  10. wolfpack95 11/19/2006 at 2:14 PM #

    There is a split right now between who wants to move Amato out.
    I have spoken with 2 of the people, whose last names are in the stadium, and they wish to give him 1 more year regardless of this season’s record.

    I have also spoken to 4 BoT members, and each told me throughout the season that talk of getting rid of Amato has been building within university meetings and without.

    Is this enough to remove Il Duce?
    We shall see.

  11. Lunatic Inter-netter 11/19/2006 at 2:17 PM #

    If 4 BoT members are willing to talk freely about the tenuous status of a coach, isn’t this self-fulfilling?

  12. brown pelican 11/19/2006 at 2:22 PM #

    when sendek left, many posters here recalled the proud history of our program—’74 and ’83 ncaa titles—the 10 acc championships through ’87, etc—our football past lacks some of the credibility that the basketball resume has—last acc title—’79—ofer in ncaa titles—yeah i know that the entire league struggles by comparison here—especially when you eliminate miami and fla state from the equation—nonetheless—the point i argue is that we must be realistic yet demanding—football at ncsu can be and should be successful—realistic goals—top 25 and a bowl 4 out of every 5 years—everybody should get a chance to blink—acc title game contention in 3 of the bowl game years—and—an acc title once every five years—to achieve this we will need a guy that will come—bring his staff—and stay—a guy that can work the state and outrecruit unc—a guy that can help us build a history—we need to get a guy on the way up and ride with him

  13. redfred2 11/19/2006 at 2:36 PM #

    brown pelican

    “realistic yet demanding”

    With the exception of the very young who want everything to happen right now, I think most true Wolfpackers are exactly that, realistic yet demanding. Chuck layed some great groundwork with facilities and excitement, now we need someone to pick up where he left off and take it higher. I hate to say, it but there may be another quick injection of energy and further continuation of high expectations, but it will never be sustainable because of the leadership in Raleigh. And I mean higher up the ladder than just Lee Fowler.

  14. packgrad2000 11/19/2006 at 2:38 PM #

    redfred2:
    I’m not saying I didn’t want Sendek out. I was simply pointing to the huge difference between Amato and Sendek. Sendek was a huge success compared to Amato.
    I think people think that because they wouldn’t fire Sendek, they won’t fire Amato. And that’s not necessarily true. I would love Lee gone as well.
    Sendek had a lot of allies; Amato does not. I’m looking at it from the perspective of “what is it going to take to get him gone?” And I think all the ingredients are there (from Oblinger or Fowler’s perspective) to fire Amato whereas I don’t think they would have fired Sendek.
    And you are BLIND if you don’t think it matters what the media or other coaches think. These were all factors helping keep Sendek around. Amato has everything working against him at this point.

  15. brown pelican 11/19/2006 at 3:00 PM #

    redfred—agree with your take on the leadership—when the pack was at it’s best athletically—across the board—chancellor caldwell was calling the shots—his performance has yet to be matched in that office since his departure—winning is a process—one that is nurtured by excellent leaders

  16. codsack 11/19/2006 at 3:26 PM #

    What’s the story with Jim Donnan? This guy has been a VERY successful college coach at both Marshall and Georgia. Donnan CAN COACH and RECRUIT! Plus, he’s an NCSU alum…….lets get him NOW……..

  17. old13 11/19/2006 at 3:45 PM #

    codsack, Donnan burned his bridges at NCSU many years ago. Part of it was his being an assistant at UNC-CH, but I think there is more to it. I just don’t know the details. Maybe others can enlighten us in this area.

    SFN: I think that you are referring to Daryl Moody. Donnan burned bridges by criticizing the school when he was at Marshall. Donnan was #2 on our list (behind Cowher) seven years ago when we hired Chuck. He had his chance. He chose something else. Regardless, he has now been out of coaching for 5 years or so. His ship has more than sailed.

  18. redfred2 11/19/2006 at 3:58 PM #

    packgrad2000

    “I was simply pointing to the huge difference between Amato and Sendek. Sendek was a huge success compared to Amato.”

    I could debate that all day, but you are young, and you will never understand until you see something different happen at a fully capable NC State University.

    “And you are BLIND if you don’t think it matters what the media or other coaches think.”

    The statements that back up the administration’s idiocy are factors for sure. They cling to those statements in hopes of not looking like the fools that they are, and also in order not to have to take action on anything.

    Therefore you next sentence,

    “These were all factors helping keep Sendek around.”

    They were no doubt. But then, Chuck’s constant bashing from the media and all of the criticism and has not resulted in one single thing.

    Whose the really BLIND one here?

  19. Astral Rain 11/19/2006 at 4:21 PM #

    Just Hoping for Norm Chow now- would be a good hire, and a good story (first Asian coach). I don’t think Cowher is ready to come back to school.

  20. Gene 11/19/2006 at 5:02 PM #

    At this point there’s no reason to keep Amato. If the high-rollers at the WPC can force a change, good.

    I know Amato’s had his problems as a coach. Some of it is his fault, especially when the team is not prepared to play. Some of it is not. Stone was a bust. Think about a pro-team drafting a talented kid out of college and hoping he fills the void at QB, but in the end he doesn’t pan out at all. That was Stone, and Davis to a lesser extent. It left us a void at QB, which we couldn’t overcome in 2004 and somehow overcame in the seond half of 2005.

    This year, though, I can’t think of a reason to say anything positive about Amato. We’ve stunk very badly. The worst part about Amato returning, for 2007, is the fact we’re married to Marc Trestman. He is not able to adjust to the college game and our offense stinks. With Trestman calling the plays, I don’t see how that improves and if Amato returns, so will Trestman.

    But Amato’s done a good job bringing some positive attention to the program, like having every defensive player entering the draft last year, get a spot on a roster (yes, we had 3 first rounders, but we had FA’s make it, like Oliver Hoyte) and increasing the interest in the football program.

    He has his shortcomings as a coach, shouldn’t be coaching this team next year, but has done some positives for the football program.

    Norm Chow

    As excitng as Chow looks as a potential HC, just keep in mind he is what Amato was in 2000: a senior assistant on a couple of successful college football programs, and now has some NFL experience, on a rebuilding NFL team.

    There’s no guarantee he’ll become a good HC and make the transition after spending many years as an assistant.

    I’m not putting down Chow’s coaching ability, but for the argument’s sake, just looking at another angle, since I now many NCSU have shown an interest in him being our next head coach.

  21. jwrenn29 11/19/2006 at 5:22 PM #

    Amato’s gonna have to get fired to leave, IMO. He continues to say things like “what critics?” and ignore the fans’. He says he hurts for us (the fans tha is) when we lose, but I don’t see changes coming unless he leaves. He plays not to lose and we therefore lose (not win). He has repeatedly said in the past that he doesn’t listen to what the fans say or what ‘they’ say, so I think it will take a firing to get him out of here.

    My gut tells me Lee doesn’t have the backbone to do it, so Oblinger may have to fire both Chuck AND Lee (which IMO again would be a good thing) to clear this up. I hope he does.

  22. Gene 11/19/2006 at 5:33 PM #

    NCSU is one of two college jobs Chow would be interested in, from what I’ve read on the internet.

    http://www.trojanwire.com/football/chow-on-the-move.php

  23. redfred2 11/19/2006 at 5:34 PM #

    “My gut tells me Lee doesn’t have the backbone to do it,”

    My gut tells me Lee and Oblinger are the ones who promote comments like “what critics?â€? and ignore the fans.”

    It was pretty apparent with how Herb Sendek’s attitude towards fans just went on forever, unchecked, and LF’s “lunatic” comment. That ‘us against them’ attitude, is promoted and permeates every nook and cranny of the NC State administration’s offices.

  24. legacyman 11/19/2006 at 5:45 PM #

    The ‘us against them’ attitude has been used in our sports programs over and over and over. I heard Les use it and the man who followed him also. When things aren’t going great, it is a human trait to draw into a tight group and bristle up. I dearly hope that Sidney never has to use that line.

  25. highstick 11/19/2006 at 6:29 PM #

    As much as I didn’t like Bunting, he was an honorable person to be fired early on and still take it “like a man and a true alumnus”. I wish I could have that much confidence in Amato to do likewise. However, I TOTALLY AGREE THAT FOWLER HAS TO BE TERMINATED AT THE SAME TIME!

    During the pre-resignation period before Sendek announced, I made a comment that “our university has been hijacked by a bunch of people who think that mediocrity is acceptable” and it still applies. N C State was not built on mediocrity, the student body does not represent mediocrity, and my fellow alumni should not accept mediocrity! It is well beyond the time that our Board of Trustees take a introspective look at their mission statement and incorporate something to the effect that mediocrity will not be tolerated!

    Why would anyone hire a student who attended a school where mediocrity and the status quo are so ingrained the the culture?

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