Trestman Follow-up x3

It was only a few weeks ago that it seemed as though NC State’s Offensive Co-ordinator, Marc Trestman, was really coming into his own as a play caller and leader of the Wolfpack’s offense. We talked about it in this great entry.

But it doesn’t take long for that tune to change after a couple of weeks of horrendous offensive output against two poor defenses.

To be clear – we aren’t looking to conentrate undue amounts of criticism on Trestman because of just a couple of tough performances. Hell, in light of the fact that just a couple of weeks ago we were highlighting Trestman’s successes, then I’d say that we are pretty consistent in our conviction to talk about whatever the relevant topics of the football team are whenever they arise. We can’t help what reality; we can only discuss and analyze reality.

With ^this in mind, three very interesting related items popped up on our radar today that deserve note today.

(1) First is Section Six’s statistical analysis that “Trestman’s system peaked in its very first game”. I have often discussed with friends that I thought that the mix of offensive execution and play calling was fantastic in last year’s home opener vs Virginia Tech.

The Pack’s first possession of the game–and Trestman’s first series calling plays in college–was a fantastic 14 play, 83 yard drive that ate up six minutes and was capped by a 25-yard Darrell Blackman touchdown run. Though we ended up losing, I remember being excited about the offense’s marked improvement.

I spent the rest of 2005 wondering where that offense went. Now we’re two-thirds through 2006 and I’m still wondering.

But, take a look at the yardage numbers from the first few games of last year compared to the last thirteen games since Andre Brown had a career day against C-USA’s Southern Miss sqaud last year. In the 18 games that have followed Trestman’s first two games last year vs Virginia Tech and Eastern Kentucky, the Wolfpack has:

* gained over 350 yards only once (Andre Brown’s big performance vs So Miss).

* gained 300 or fewer yards in 12 of the last 18 games

* scored only three points in the first quarter of the past seven games.

* failed to score more than 24 points in EVERY game

(2) A poster on Pack Pride’s message boards takes ^Section Six’s analysis a step further and did an analysis of total points scored by the Wolfpack through 8 games.

NC State has scored only 148 points through 8 games this season. Over the last 20 years NC State has only ONCE scored less points through eight games than have been scored this season. That was the 4-7 season in 1987 when the Pack was shut-out twice and managed only three points against Wake Foresta 3rd. 7 of the 20 seasons have seen the Wolfpack fail to score at least 200 points at this point of the season – 2 of those 7 occurences have been turned-in by Marc Trestman.

(3) The post-game “Good & the Bad” article at Pack Pride is really good this week. The following quote is very insightful into the conversation about Trestman and what is wrong with the Wolfpack’s offense. We haven’t seen any of this – or any of the statistical information – in the mass media.

No Identity: Watch teams across college football and you generally know what they are going to do on offense… you get a feel for their offensive philosophy.

Wake Forest is going to run the ball out of a spread formation, using misdirection, reverses, and counters… but you can count on them to continue running the football. BC is going to play smashmouth football and come at you with playaction. UVA, as mentioned early, will use their athletic offensive line to run stretches, screens, and bootleg leads. Clemson is going to pound away with a strong offensive line and C.J. Spiller and James Davis. The question is, what is NC State’s identity?

I think this remains a question because of offensive coordinator Marc Trestman and his west coast offense that is being instilled from his NFL background. Teams like UVA, Wake, and BC almost appear too simplistic on offense, however they are effective because they know exactly what they are going to do and practice, practice, practice those same formations every day of the week. With NC State, you never know if they are going to come out in five-wides or three-wides, the power-I or split backs, shotgun with two tight ends or shotgun with two tailbacks… you get the idea. NC State appears to be TOO “multiple” on offense.

Realistically, can that offensive unit practice sufficiently ALL of those different formations or packages in practice and be expected to operate flawlessly without mistakes on Saturdays? College football isn’t the NFL. You don’t get to practice plays eight hours a day and work on various formations throughout the week because the NCAA limits practice time. This could be an underlying factor in NC State’s consistent problems with missed assignments, illegal formations, and illegal shifts on offense.

NC State needs to find that identity. They need to find out what they really want to do on offense and base everything else off of it. Do they want to go to a no-huddle offense with Daniel Evans and keep him comfortable while using an emerging group of wideouts? Do they want to run, run, and run the ball with their two tailbacks like Clemson does each week?

Whatever it is, they need to find it because as the saying goes, practice makes perfect, and maybe there just isn’t enough time to practice and perfect everything NC State is currently doing on offense.

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'06 Football General

91 Responses to Trestman Follow-up x3

  1. highstick 10/30/2006 at 11:24 PM #

    Thanks for correcting me on the QB sneaks. I could have sworn that I’d read that it was Chuck calling those plays. My bad!

    As far as “institutional control”, my point is that “whoever the powers that be above” Fowler really need to step back and wonder what in the heck is going on in the Athletics Department. Millions of dollars have been raised for facilities and the performance of the teams using those facilities is severely lacking. The well is going to “dry up” and it could very well lead to a reduced level of donations for both sports and academic endeavors at State.

    I honestly believe Chuck can coach defensive football and is a motivator. I’m not sold on his ability to select an OC. I’m not convinced at all that Fowler has a clue about what he’s doing. I’d really like to see Chuck operate under a competent AD who will hold him accountable.

    I’m sure that “money” told Baddour to go have his talk with Bunting. Maybe it’s time for the same to happen at State!

  2. Mr O 10/31/2006 at 12:01 AM #

    I understand and agree that ultimately Amato is accountable for our offense play. I was simply pointing out that there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that Amato meddling in the offense is the problem since we have been successful offensivel for the majority of his tenure.

    Also, I am not saying that Amato isn’t difficult to work for or that he doesn’t have bad reputation which will hurt his chance of upgrading at the OC position in the off-season. I agree that this has been a major problem with Amato.

    What I am attempting to illustrate is that our offensive struggles this year and last appear to be more related to our current OC rather than Amato being too involved in the offense.

  3. Wolfpack4ever 10/31/2006 at 12:32 AM #

    highstick Says: “Thanks for correcting me on the QB sneaks. I could have sworn that I’d read that it was Chuck calling those plays. My bad!”

    You probably did read that it was Amato calling those plays, probably here. If Amato was callling those plays, he would have had an Hback at the point of attack and 2 tight ends with the RB being stuffed at the line of scrimmage.

  4. Woof Wolf 10/31/2006 at 1:49 AM #

    I don’t understand what CTC has done other than go to school here that makes some of you so loyal. He inherited MOC’s recruits. The first three years were his best. He got Chow to come here for a year. Norm bailed out after 2000. In 2002 we won 11 games. Check out who we played.

    New Mexico (7-7)
    East Tennessee State (non-IA)
    Navy (2-10)
    Wake Forest (7-6)
    Texas Tech (9-5)
    Massachusetts (non-IA)
    North Carolina (3-9)
    Duke (2-10)
    Clemson (7-6)

    After surviving that murder’s row to get to 9 – 0, we lost to:

    Georgia Tech (7-6)
    Maryland (11-3)
    Virginia (9-5)

    Yeah, the wins over FSU and Notre Dame were good. But without the cupcake schedule we would have never been in the Gator Bowl.

    Okay it was fun, but O’Cain amd Chow probably contributed more to that run than anyone standing on the sidelines and cheering. Since then it’s been all down hill.

    Short of personality, vocal cord and brain transplants; I’m pretty much over it.

  5. justaguy 10/31/2006 at 2:13 AM #

    “We won the National Collegiate Bass Fishing Championship. We’re national champions!”

    Fowler could learn something from these fellas. They know when to throw back a fish that doesn’t measure up. So when will Fowler throw back the coaches that come up short? Or will he just let them flop on the deck? We need some keepers.

  6. redfred2 10/31/2006 at 9:25 AM #

    Wolfpack4ever,

    Jones= James and Davis= Baker. I went back and did the research, those are the Old English tranlations of those monikers.

    You are right though, it was a busy Monday and my head was definitely elsewhere, admitted nonsense and dumb mistakes on everyone one of posts yesterday.

    I’m just glad you made it back from Vegas and in time to correct me. 🙂

  7. choppack1 10/31/2006 at 9:30 AM #

    “What I am attempting to illustrate is that our offensive struggles this year and last appear to be more related to our current OC rather than Amato being too involved in the offense.”

    But there also isn’t any evidence otherwise.

  8. Cardiff Giant 10/31/2006 at 11:24 AM #

    “Cardiff, what about UVA’s defense on that one drive. They held all day except for that one drive.

    All I’m trying to say is that when you have RB’s the calibre of Brown and Davis, receivers like Dunlap, Blackmon, Hill, and Jones, and a competent young QB, it should not ALWAYS have to come down to the defense stopping the opposition on ONE drive.”

    Absolutely correct, redfred.

  9. Cardiff Giant 10/31/2006 at 11:27 AM #

    “Cardiff: Picking out one drive per game will make any defense look bad. The fact remains that against Va we allowed 14 pts. Against, we gave up 26 total, but 14 were off of turnovers inside our own 20.

    Additionally, with our offense never giving the defense any cushion with long, consistent drives and us having so many three and outs, it is almost amazing that our D is as good as it is.”

    Mr. O, you are also correct. There is no comparison between our absolutely disgustingly inept, dog-doo offense and our generally competent defense.

    All I am saying is this: (a) when the defense collapses, as against the teams I mentioned and – as someone reminded me, AKRON – it collapses BIG TIME, and (b) that BIG TIME collapse always occurs at a critical time, suggesting a correlation between the opposing offense getting up for the clutch time play and our defense, by contrast, lying down for such. No?

  10. GAWolf 10/31/2006 at 2:54 PM #

    And lest we forget our inability to maintain a drive at any point in that Virginia game meant our defense never got a substantial rest? Silly, silly monkeys. How many times must we go over the same little lessons?

  11. RAWFS 10/31/2006 at 3:39 PM #

    Cardiff,

    Add to the “last second collapse” a number of different years — I can remember some heartbreaking drives by Maryland during Chuck’s tenure.

  12. Cardiff Giant 10/31/2006 at 4:07 PM #

    ^ Oh yes. That is indeed the case.

  13. WolfPup35 10/31/2006 at 6:10 PM #

    We should run the whole game in a hurry up or no huddle, Evans seens to be a lot more comfortable playing that way.

    A no huddle would keep the opposing defenses constantly lookig and constantly active, bringing fatigue into the picture sooner.

    NO MORE WASTING 15-18 seconds “chatting” with Trestman, have 2 or 3 plays (or maybe 3 or 4) set, and be able to execute running those plays quickly, within 10 sec of previous play.

    GET THE ENTIRE OFFENSE ON THE SAME FREAKIN’ PAGE FOR GOD’S SAKE!!!

  14. jwrenn29 10/31/2006 at 11:09 PM #

    I think the problem could be much simpler than all this analyzing has produced: if Evans lines up in the shotgun it’s a pass, no running, no dumps, no quick hits. So the defense blitzes and is safe from any danger unless they can’t get pressure on the QB. But with 8 or 9 guys coming it’s a pretty safe bet. If Daniel’s under center, it’s a run so leave the corners one on one with receivers and pack everyone in the box again.

    I’m no coach, but when I watch a game I KNOW what play or where NCSU is trying to go with a play just from how Evans lines up. I’d think that would mean opponents would know even more than that and be able to be in position to stop it almost everytime.

  15. redfred2 11/01/2006 at 12:02 AM #

    Cardiff, that was a terrible post by me. I’m glad you you could figure out what I was TRYING to say. Thanks.

    I think everyone can agree that we are getting much more out of the talent levels on the defensive side of the ball, than on the offensive side. There is just no comparison through the first three quarters of the ballgames.

    It’s like the defense is saying, ‘OK you guys, are you going to do anything to help our cause today? We’re still out here, trying our damnest, but we’ve been on the field too long and getting a little worn down, ya know?’ Hopelessness sets in, feet, and minds, start to drag. When at least once or twice it you would think it could be, ‘Way to go guys! Way to score and eat some clock! Have a seat, we’re pumped and ready to play some D now!’

    The sack count is acceptable (as nicely noted by O…and explained by RickJ), and the RB’s averages per carry are good. SO, what exactly IS the deal here?

    I’ve already heard penalties, that doesn’t help. I’d love to hear something, anything, that THIS staff can remedy.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. The ACC Basketblog - 10/31/2006

    r8EbL8 This is one awesome article post. Will read on…

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