BBall Recruiting & The Battle of DC

Yesterday we learned that Jamelle McMillan is not going to play basketball at NC State. SFN shared some thoughts and analysis in this entry that we hope that you didn’t miss.

Something that we tried to politely dance around was the ‘priority’ that the new NC State staff put on McMillan’s recruitment. We commented that it “never seemed as though Coach Lowe wanted to make the full court press on Jamelle; almost wanting JM to go ahead and commit somewhere else so that we didn’t have to tell him that we didn’t want him.”

In support of that theory, shared the following information in one of their reports yesterday:

McMillan said that he had only heard from new N.C. State coach Sidney Lowe once in the past month – a text message since he returned from Las Vegas at the end of July. “I saw Sidney Lowe a couple of times in July, but I haven’t talked to him in a month,â€? McMillan said.

Now the public attention on NC State’s guard recruitment will shift exclusively to Chris Wright. There is no doubt that Sidney Lowe has put the majority of his eggs in Wright’s basket creating a high risk/high reward proposition for the point guard position of the program.

Wright is featured in the following piece on college basketball recruiting in Washington, DC at Sports Illustrated’s new College Basketball Blog. (Link to entry)

The following are couple of additional comments that were made by our readers on theoriginal Jamelle McMillan entry that we felt were worth highlighting:

I don’t know why everyone is getting so worked up over Jamelle going to ASU. Jamelle himself said that he was a solid player but not a program changer and that fans shouldn’t expect him to be or they would be disappointed. The last thing Jamelle would have wanted to do is come into a program where his father is an all-time legend with overblown expectations.

I am sure Sid, Nate, and Jamelle talked about that and all wanted what was best or better for Jamelle. Jamelle is closer in height and skill set to his father when Nate came out of high school—and even the great Jimmy V didn’t take future great Nate then, only after Nate grew into a much oversized pg for the era and major matchup problem.

It is pretty obvious that Sid felt that Degand offered a lot of what Jamelle does, so Sid has chosen to invest all of his energies in higher rated Chris Wright in addition to trying to build relationships with future pg’s in 2008 and beyond while Jamelle gets to go somewhere where he will have an opportunity to shine (hopefully) without the intensity and scrutiny of the sometimes overly rabid NCSU basketball fanbase.

Sid is shooting for the fences, and it is a high risk but potentially high return endeavor. If Sid misses out on the big names in 2007 and 2008, we will be hating basketball life. BUT, honestly, I can’t see that I will hate basketball life any worse than I have watching Herb Sendek send his “almost goodâ€? teams on the floor to build nice records against weak teams early in the year….lose UGLY early season non-conference games against other mediocre teams…look confused as hell at every timeout, press, and end game situation…give us a little hope and then blow it in the most excruciating fashion (the Maryland technical game and/or last second shot games, the Wake Forest home debacles vs Josh Howard once with a foul and then Chris Paul with a last second shot after a nut punch, or the Duke ACCT Final meltdown) OR simply get blown out (UNC last year, Duke in an ACCT Final, etc.)…

I mean, seriously, the 1997 ACCT Final run and the NCAA win over UConn were about all that was enjoyable in a decade’s worth of Herb Sendek ball with a lot of gaps and disappointments in between. So, if Sid wants to shoot for the fences, I’m with him whether he whiffs or not. The only way to evoke real change is to take the chance and accept the risk. We had 6 years of suck under Les, 5 years of suck under Herb, and 5 years of “almost pretty good� under Herb—none of it was all that enjoyable. So, if Sid hits it big, GREAT!! If Sid fails, well, I am not sure I will notice the difference between suck and “almost pretty good� this time around.

Hell, beating Southwest Missouri State or whoever the hell it was back in the 1997 NIT of Herb year 1 was a lot more enjoyable than getting blown out by Texas in the NCAA’s last year in Herb year 10 (especially with Gavin and Courtney on the bench after they brought us back once already). After 10 years you should have more to hang your hat on, so, if we have to blow the program up and start over, so be it—it wasn’t all that to begin with…

“The reason most fans wanted him to come to NCSU was to see his name in the rafters, next to his dads. Outside of the sentimental value, it held for fans, we’re not losing out on a program changing guard.�

That is the reason most Pack fans wanted him here. I wanted him here a lot more when I read that he was a lockdown defender and that he locked down UNC-Ch’s top rated PG. I wanted him here because he was a decent student and he would have added depth.

Don’t get me wrong, if I had to choose between as basketball players, I’d go after Wright. However, I would consider Wright far from a lock at this point. It would also be nice if this was a sign that Fells, Ferguson and Degand have made Sid feel like all he needs is this one guard.

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80 Responses to BBall Recruiting & The Battle of DC

  1. vtpackfan 08/28/2006 at 12:33 PM #

    ^ I agree that it will definitely take years to rebuild, not so much for how Sendek chose to put a face on the program but for Lee did to wreck it all. I am proud that Herb made the student athlete a point of emphasis. in recruiting Chris Wright this sounded especiallt critical. No, whether it s patching together a team, and landing a super stud prospect like Wright, Hickson or Smith, its all going to play out with his first two seasons as a ACC head coach. Rememmber Towe and Strickland are going to play big roles atleast in the innagural season as the rules and X’s & O’s changes are fully absorded and understood by Sid. It is really hard to expect alot more from the situation, but I think the character of the returning players as well as the characters of Thomas, Degand, Lew and Green will be especially evident in how they bring some of the pride bqack into the program under the guidance of one of the proudest ever to put the Wolfpack uniform on.

  2. ShootingGuard 08/28/2006 at 2:39 PM #


    You guys do realize that, as of today, Green is NOT a commit for us, right?? Apparently, he was ready to commit, but the staff indicated that they were not ready to offer him a spot…The staff is obviously holding out to try to make a splash with Wright /Hickson / Smith / etc.

    With regard to Thomas, the staff took him because he looked like he was getting ready to blow up…Not a bad move at all, you can take a chance like that every now and then…Plus, he’s a NC kid, and I think it sends a good message to NC high school coaches…

    Degand is an insurance point guard, allowing us to shoot for the moon with Wright…Degand took Jamelle’s place but Degand filled an immediate need that Jamelle couldn’t—Degand is on campus as a body in practice THIS year…So Sid/Monte/Q don’t have to suit up and risk tearing up an ankle like Sean Miller did just so we can practice…Sometimes you have to sacrifice later just to survive now…

    Lew is a project…No way around it…But he was one of the only big men available at this point that didn’t have potential academic or criminal issues…Towe knew the kid…That makes a difference at this point…He provides a big body to practice against…Sadly, he may actually find his way on the floor when Costner and/or Big Ben are in foul trouble…You guys do realize that those are our only “big guys” right now if Brack doesn’t come back, right?? So many guys are talking crap about Lew, but you will either have to put him in or bring DHorn or Ferguson off the bench while Gavin or Courtney play center and power forward…

    Harris’ kid is coming in as another body for practice and may end up in games due to how incredibly thin we are…He will NOT, however, be taking a scholarship from any potential stars in 2007 or 2008…

    I doubt we take any other projects for 2007 UNLESS we whiff on all the stars, the staff does the math, and decides we are too short at whatever position…Then AND ONLY THEN will they pull the trigger with lower rated recruits…That’s fine if they are able to pull in a monster class in 2008…All it takes is one moster class, and we have plenty of scholarships to field one—we just have to get them to sign…

    With a little luck, I think Sid can get it done…If not, we’ll go back to the drawing board again—hopefully with someone besides Lee Fowler doing the drawing next time around…

  3. packbackr04 08/28/2006 at 2:46 PM #

    shooting ^^ great post, and thanks for the info on Harris’ kid and stating he is NOT going to take a scholly.

    and it makes sense that we are holding off on Rashad Green… Does anyone know is Hickson set up his official to Raleigh yet? also what is the timeline for the rest of the guys Sid is going after? In other words, how long can we string Green along, wont we need to tell him soon?

    I also really like that nothing is being said out of Sids camp as far as recruiting goes. and i know they cant say much as to specifics, but it just seems like something big is cooking in Raleigh. Wouldnt it be great to have a blow out recruiting year next year and have a top 20 program in yr #2 for sid!!!!!! GO PACK

  4. vtpackfan 08/28/2006 at 4:03 PM #

    Thanks SG, I was looking up facts on Green and was beginning to wonder. Did that really happen to Sean Miller, WTF. Ony on one of Herbs teams do asst. coaches have tp pick up there own end of the workmans comp. benefits package. That is really rich. I hope that Lew can bang down low to give minutes to guys in foul trouble or just need a blow. That is the best and only way to conduct a project. You have to use it in a variety of situations to see if you can get everything out of it you possibly can by the time the project ends. I love the signing of Thomas. It would be awesome to make some real noise with the NC prep stars because the places like NYC and DC are getting so crowdwd that the fight with WF, VT, and UNC Charlottesville should been seen as a refuge.

  5. ShootingGuard 08/28/2006 at 6:30 PM #


    Now Scout is reporting that Rashad Green has received an offer and accepted…

    If this latest report is true and not a rumor like before, then I would think that the staff looked at the numbers at each position and decided that we needed a wing in the 2007 class in the worst way…(Hopefully that is not a reflection on DHorn and Ferguson or we are in worse trouble than I thought this coming season…or the rest of 2007 recruiting as I hold out hope for Wright + 1 or 2 other guys)

    Regardless, I would bet that the Sid would take Wright plus 2 of Hickson/Smith/McClain and not blink with Jai Grant as insurance if we get only 1 or 0…

    Sid has to hit a home run this year with Wright + 1 or 2 of Hickson/Smith/McClain OR hit a home run at pg and everywhere else in 2008…

    Hopefully, Wright comes this weekend, enjoys his time so much again that he re-commits early next week, and opens the door wider for the big guys…

    (I doubt we will waste time discussing all of the ratings, projects, and diamonds in the rough if Sid could pull that off…)

  6. vtpackfan 08/28/2006 at 8:42 PM #

    With the weakness in the front court and pg positions it is very probable that Horner and Ferguson could split duties, one going big and one small on occassion. This is an effort to push the debate towards these guys versatility instead of liability. i am a bit surprised the offer went Greens way instead of Hudson, but they could equal a push anyway. I just don’t know how much to put down on Wright and others showing up after there visits. We are in a real dog fight for Wright and Hickson, and I never heard of us being very close w/McClain. Smith and Grant are not going to be around for long and our obvious need to pursue the homerun with these others may cost us with them. It’s kinda tight rope walking right now so the best thing to do is sit back a enjoy the circus. What we should really get to the bottom of is Sids golf game. Anyone know how Lowe he could go at the Jimmy V in Preston?

  7. ShootingGuard 08/28/2006 at 11:07 PM #


    I would bet that we would take Smith as soon as he said he wanted to commit—I don’t think we are pushing him back for Hickson. I think we would take both in a heartbeat. They are both power post players unlike Costner and Big Ben, and we need those types of players too. There isn’t much floating around about McLain other than we are/were in the mix, but I’m sure the staff would gladly take him in a heartbeat as well if he were to call them to commit today and then go with a first come first serve with Hickson and Smith after that…Of course, that’s all talk and fantasy talk at this point. We would jump at the chance to bring on Wright + 2 of those 3 post guys, but we will be very lucky to get 1 off of this list, much less 2-3. You are right about Grant, though. He has some potential, but we would not want to push him out too far in pursuit of the other guys and risk coming up empty in the frontcourt. I think that is part of the reason Sid is going with Green rather than risking chasing Hudson (who seems to like the whole recruiting and visit game) and coming up empty. Hudson is a very solid player but not a program changer, and it appears that during this round of recruiting that Sid will wait on the big names like Wright, Hickson, Smith, and McLain but take a diamond in the rough instead of waiting for the solid but not program changing fringe top 100 guys.

  8. vtpackfan 08/29/2006 at 7:45 AM #

    I really like the early list of ’08 guys. there are more pf and highy polished swingmen that we have an outside shot at. Its great that there is a healthy dose of NC prospects already including a 6’10” from Wilmington thats getting ready to blow up. There are no pg early on showing up in ’08 and I’m hoping that may be we are trying to coax Chris Wright into thinking he may never have to leave the court save foul trouble or a bloody shirt. One guy besides Smith, and Grant that sort of surprises me is pf Sanchez from Arkansas. He has an offer from the Razorbacks and Kansas (I think), but has also showed interest and received an offer from Sid. No visit date released, since the staff seems content with keeping wraps on visit dates. Hickson could be gone before long, I really have a feeling that his visit to Florida might be the trick but who knows. They always have a deep team and Noah and company will be gone next year. I agree with the rest, Hudson is just kinda out there, and the rest really depends on how well this visit Wright has goes. If he signs then besides Sids great enthusiasm for the School and our excellent facilities, he would become our greatest asset in recruiting. He has proven that he can elevate a teams performance, exactly what a pg can do. Question: can other members of a prep class who have already verbally committed to State speak in confidence to a potential recruit like Wright. If so, it would be something if Sid can get Johnny Thomas to show up. His bio reads alot like Wright in that he has great character and hits the books. Just a thought.

  9. Dan 08/29/2006 at 9:24 AM #


    I like the list of ’08 guys as well, and I really like the fact that Sid wont be working from behind in going after them. However, if this keeps up there wont be many scholarships to offer the kids of the ’08 class.

    You guys need to be realistic about Wright and Hickson. Rarely does a kid decommit and then recommit. Rumor is following Hickson that he wont be able to qualify for bball for a universtiy in this state. Enter Florida. Add to that that the kid set no visit with us while setting up the rest of his visits.

    I wont be mad at Sid for missing on the class of ’07. He got a late start. What I will be a little upset with him over is giving out the full alottment of scholarships to sleeper recruits instead of saving a little extra for ’08. The year I really believe he’ll be set to make some noise. You only have so many years to take advantage of the “new hire buzz”.

  10. ShootingGuard 08/29/2006 at 10:05 AM #


    Despite our past sparring, I am not unrealistic when it comes to Wright and Hickson. I fully realize that it is an uphill battle with Wright and that we have an even less chance of getting Hickson. I agree with you on that, and I agree with you that, if we miss on a couple miracles in the 2007 class, we absolutely have to make a splash in 2008.

    Where you and I disagree is that you seem to think we can go into the 2007-2008 basketball season with Grant, Fells, Ben, Costner, Ferguson, and DHorn and should simply save the rest of the schollies for 2008 recruiting if we don’t get Wright, etc. We can’t even practice with just 6 players…Lowe HAD to bring in a few more guys, and, unfortunately, he had no prior relationship with any of the available recruits (save one mentioned below). On top of that, regardless of the way you view rankings and “stars,” most fringe top 100 kids don’t view themselves as anything but 5-star players, so, just because YOU think State is great, doesn’t mean Lowe’s disadvantage in not knowing any of these kids ahead of time on the recruiting trail is any less in dealing with a lower rated recruit than it is in dealing with a top rated recruit. So, at this time, trying to pull the program out of the ashes left by Sendek’s “surprise” exit and Lee Fowler’s major foulups, Sidney Lowe doesn’t have the luxury of waiting around for a Hudson this year or going without a few extra guys next season. He will hold out for the impact players this year or seek to get them next year, and he has the schollies to do that…It only takes one big recruit to get the ball rolling and 1-2 more big recruits plus your role players to really make some noise…

    The lone exception to all of this is Jamelle McMillan. For the last time, he IS the only recruiting story that is even questionable at this time, but his story is WAY more complicated than “State is great…the ACC is great.” No knock on Jamelle, but he himself has said he is not his dad and is not a program changer. With Boetang and Harden in the fold, Jamelle can go to ASU and be a straw in a program with very low expectations and a comatose fanbase rather than risking being shredded by a rabid fanbase that expects him to be Nate McMillan and has parts of the fanbase that don’t mind cussing at Herb Sendek’s family at games (sorry, I wanted Sendek gone, but this happened all the time) and trashing Sidney Lowe after just 2 months. You also have to keep in mind that Lowe and Nate are friends and that having Lowe take responsibility for Nate’s kid’s future would risk their friendship. Neither likely wanted to take that risk, and both understand what a tremendous uphill battle Lowe has in front of him…Believe what you want to believe, but Jamelle, Nate, and Sid came to a great conclusion with regard to Jamelle and handled it at the highest level in the press…In the end, Jamelle would have been solid, but our program’s future won’t be determined by Jamelle…The Sid regime’s ultimate destiny will be determined by whether he can get a high impact pg in 2007 or 2008 as well as other high impact recruits…Otherwise, we are just competing but not contending per usual…Sid knows this…He has taken on Degand and a few other guys, but he has left room to shoot for the moon and has shown already that he is willing to risk his name and his job to get us back to the top rather than just shooting for pretty good status quo and a regular paycheck…

  11. vtpackfan 08/29/2006 at 10:07 AM #

    “What I will be a little upset with him over is giving out the full alottment of scholarships to sleeper recruits instead of saving a little extra for ‘08”
    Dan, are we not neck and neck with a host of powerhouse teams that already have a full alottment of scholarships? Brackmans and Atsurs come up for sure after this year, and Grants will be this year or next. Whose to say McAuley wouldn’t transfer if we got Tracy Smith or Jerai Grant this year, and could land a bigger target in ’08. Is Costner so good that he won’t stick around the full term? Who Knows, its the game the rest of the nations coaches are playing, offering one or in some cases multiple more schollys than are available.

  12. Dan 08/29/2006 at 10:38 AM #

    SG, we have more than 6. There are 13 players eligible for practice now.

    Well, at least we all agree that Sid needs to hit a home run in ’08. I think in order to see how bad he needs to hit that HR, we should look at the ’08 roster as it looks now.

    Coster – PF
    Fells – Wing
    Degand – PG
    Horner – Wing
    Bartosz – Center
    Furgeson – Guard
    McCauley – PF
    Johnny Thomas – SG/Wing
    Rashard Green – SG/PG

    (Above list leaves Harris and other Walk-ons off list)

    That leaves 4 scholarships left for the rest of ’07 and all of ’08. Personally, I feel ok with Fells and Costner. PG has to be the priority. After that, a banging PF and C are the next items to check off. Its still doable with the alottment left, but Sid cannot afford to be signing any more sleepers. He needs impact athletes if we are giong to have chance at staying relevent. Obviously Wright and Hickson would make everything ok, but that ship is close to sailing. I would have settled for Jamelle and Tracy Smith, but that is looking less likely as well. But I’m believing that Sid can get his PG and his PF/C’s in ’08 if he can just leave enough space for them.

  13. ShootingGuard 08/29/2006 at 11:25 AM #

    “SG, we have more than 6. There are 13 players eligible for practice now.”

    No crap—that’s why I said YOU act like you want take 6 guys into the 2007-2008 season. I know we have more than 6 going in—we NEED more than 6 going in…Do you read what people type with any thought??

    “PG has to be the priority. After that, a banging PF and C are the next items to check off.”

    I agree with that…Probably everybody else here does as well.

    “But I’m believing that Sid can get his PG and his PF/C’s in ‘08 if he can just leave enough space for them.”

    Dan, our coach is desperate right now—he is NOT stupid. He WILL save room for a pg and a banger in 2008 if he strikes out with Wright + Hickson/Smith/McLain. If he could get Wright + 2 of the those 3 big guys, he should use the scholarships on them—it would be STUPID not to…If he can’t get any of those guys, he will take a frontcourt player this year and save the 3 other schollies for 2008. I have NO idea why you can’t see that…

  14. Dan 08/29/2006 at 2:17 PM #

    If we have 13 now, that means we had 11 before. Not 6 like you said. Plus one of them, Degand, cant even play this year.

    Why cant I see it? Because now he is down to the point where he has no choices. Anymore sleepers and he starts to run out of scholarships. Instead of hoping for a reversal in the trend, its more likely to see the trend continue.

    People said the same things after Degand and Bartosz. The big recruits were next. Well, now after Thomas and Green, they are saying the same thing. We’ve already signed three guards who will be eligible for the ’07 class. You dont “need” 3 sleeper guards in the same class. One maybe. Two, well yikes, but ok. Three? No way.

    You should watch what you say as well. You just said that if he doesnt get the big time talent with the next scholly, he is “stupid”. I wonder if you’ll stick to that. I guess we will see. People should note that I have never called anyone but Fowler “stupid”. I’m just not sure if Lowe really understands what its going to be like and what kind of player it takes to win in this conference.

  15. ShootingGuard 08/29/2006 at 3:19 PM #

    “If we have 13 now, that means we had 11 before. Not 6 like you said. Plus one of them, Degand, cant even play this year.”

    Again, Radio, what I said is that YOU want to go into next year with just 6 players. I am fine with Sid’s desperate decisions with Lew, Degand, Green, and Thomas and ONE more frontcourt player (sleeper or not) IF he can use the other 3 for top flight talent in 2007 or 2008. Please READ what I type and think about it before you respond!!!!!

    “Why cant I see it? Because now he is down to the point where he has no choices. Anymore sleepers and he starts to run out of scholarships.”

    You just said he had 4 scholarships left, Radio, that is room for 1 more necessity player and 3 impact players…

    “Instead of hoping for a reversal in the trend, its more likely to see the trend continue.”

    1 more sleeper in the frontcourt this year is the MOST you will see…leaving 3 for impact guys in 2007 or 2008…How many times does that need to be repeated, Radio??

    “People said the same things after Degand and Bartosz. The big recruits were next. Well, now after Thomas and Green, they are saying the same thing. We’ve already signed three guards who will be eligible for the ‘07 class. You dont “needâ€? 3 sleeper guards in the same class. One maybe. Two, well yikes, but ok. Three? No way.”

    I didn’t say any of that crap, so save it for the other voices in your head, Radio. We do NEED more than 6 scholarship players, Radio. There were really not any big guys floating around for 2006, Radio, so Sid almost HAD to take Lew. Degand was insurance in case we whiff on Wright. There are not a lot of big guys left in 2007 except the big names we are TRYING to get. We may have to play Gavin and DHorn at the 4 next year, so Thomas and Green provide depth on the wing (there are a lot more wings in the world than big guys, Radio).

    “You should watch what you say as well. You just said that if he doesnt get the big time talent with the next scholly, he is “stupidâ€?. I wonder if you’ll stick to that.”

    That is NOT what I said, Radio. Sid will take a frontcourt player, and it may be a sleeper if he can’t get Hickson, Smith, or McLain. (I don’t know what you consider, Harvey Grant’s son…but I would be fine with him if we can’t get the 3 above.) That leaves 3 schollies for a dynamite pg, banger, and wing in 2008—if we don’t come up with the dynamite pg and banger in 2007. IF Sid were to use the LAST 3 schollies on sleepers, THEN I would question it big time. But, he hasn’t done that yet.

    “I guess we will see. People should note that I have never called anyone but Fowler “stupidâ€?. I’m just not sure if Lowe really understands what its going to be like and what kind of player it takes to win in this conference.”

    YOU are STUPID if you think SIDNEY LOWE doesn’t know what the ACC wars are like and what kind of player it takes to win the conference—after he played here for 4 years under 2 great coaches and won an ACC and an NCAA Championship beating Ralph Sampson and Michael Jordan and Sidney Green and Hakeem and Drexler along the way. Please think about how dumb you sound before making more STUPID statements like that…Everybody in the f-ing world KNEW Carmelo Anthony was the type of player you need to win it all, but he had CONNECTIONS TO and BUILT A RELATIONSHIP with Jim Boeheim. Sid needs to build those kinds of connections and relationships with coaches and kids. Sid doesn’t need to hear some Radio on the internet stating the F-ING OBVIOUS…

  16. Dan 08/29/2006 at 6:14 PM #

    Wow. Do you kiss your boyfriend with that mouth? You really need to keep the emotions in check? You almost cried there what with all the caps.

    And just because you give a kid a scholarship does not make him “scholarship player”. I could rush out and hand out scholarships to 7 foot polish guys too. That doesnt make them worthy.

    Do you have any clue how long it took for Boeheim to get to that point? Again, when we hired Sid it was with the belief that Sid would not have to take them same amount of time it takes most college coaches to build networks. Most D-I coaches take decades to build that sort of network. Beginning when they are asisstants at that level. Sid does not have decades. Is it fair? No. Sorry, everyone knew the deal coming into this.

    “1 more sleeper in the frontcourt this year is the MOST you will see…leaving 3 for impact guys in 2007 or 2008”

    So if he signs two more sleepers will you put down the kool-aid?

    p.s. sorry ’bout the the insult. It just appeared thats the way you and your boyfriend must communicate around the house, so I figured it was worth a try.

  17. ShootingGuard 08/29/2006 at 7:59 PM #


    You are obviously a UNC fan just over here trying to stir up trouble because NO ONE could possibly be as STUPID as you are…

    “You really need to keep the emotions in check? You almost cried there what with all the caps.”

    You are the one on here all emotional and crying that Sid hasn’t signed the players YOU like. Do you have a story you want to share with us that will explain your infatuation with 7′ poles??

    “Do you have any clue how long it took for Boeheim to get to that point?”

    The Carmelo example was about how STUPID you are for thinking that EVERYONE doesn’t know what talent is needed to win championships…Ok, DUMBASS?? It wasn’t about Boeheim, per say. Sorry you can’t read between the lines, Radio…

    “Again, when we hired Sid…”

    You had no part in hiring Sid, you are an internet dork who spouts off totally OBVIOUS information that adds nothing to any conversation…You are about as profound as the guy who says Jessica Simpson has big knockers…Really? Wow! Like everybody in the world doesn’t know that AND your great “wise” statements about recruiting…Can’t wait until we get to the season, so you can tell us the key to winning games is to score more points than the other team!! Duh!!

    “…it was with the belief that Sid would not have to take them same amount of time it takes most college coaches to build networks.”

    No, it was because every other coach in the f-ing world turned State down, and Sid, as a former Pack great and alum who bleeds red, was finally offered the chance to jump in at the LAST minute to try and save the program thanks to the sorry situation Lee Foulup created…

    “Most D-I coaches take decades to build that sort of network. Beginning when they are asisstants at that level. Sid does not have decades. Is it fair? No. Sorry, everyone knew the deal coming into this.”

    While I agree with your points, YOU were not a part of the deal, YOU don’t know what the deal is, YOU don’t have any power to change the deal, etc. For all YOU know, Lee Foulup could give him 10 years like the last guy plus a new ferrari every year. YOU are, obviously, just a blathering Hole fan with very little to add beyond the f-ing OBVIOUS…I mean, seriously, can you tell us again how you can’t win championships without talent?? Duh!! Thanks, Radio, u r reeely ssssmar-t!!

    “So if he signs two more sleepers will you put down the kool-aid?”

    I’m not drinking any kool-aid, JACKASS!! If Sid doesn’t sign up some top talent in 2007 and/or 2008, he will likely be finished before he gets started… That’s life. I have no problem with him being fired if he doesn’t produce and hiring the next guy. If it happens, hopefully, some “D-I coach…[having spent] decades [building] that sort of network…beginning when [he was] an asisstant at the [college] level” will come running and finally accept the job when Dan from Mayberry gets promoted to AD and Supervisory Recruiter and Coach and proclaims “This is NC State!! This is the ACC!!” Who will it be, Dan?? Rick Barnes?? John Calipari?? Get on the horn, Dan, close that deal!! JACKASS!!

  18. redfred2 08/29/2006 at 10:07 PM #

    ^Let’s not be conceeding Lowe’s job just yet, I’d really like to see him coach a game. I say he has no less four years before anyone should “require” him to start bringing in talent. After ten f*g years of hearing “what til next year,” and “the coach is right on schedule,” what do have to show for it now? We can lay claim to being thumped out of an NCAA tournament that we didn’t even deserve to be in to begin with. Oh yeah, I’m not forgetting how many “consecutive times” we got thumped and walked away with our tails between our legs. I remember it all too well.

    Lowe may not even be able to get to the middle of the pack of the ACC for a couple of years. What’s the difference? We never were in contention before, we were never even close, and haven’t added a single item to the trophy case in decades. HOW IN THE HELL DOES SIDNEY LOWE ALL OF SUDDEN BECOME RESPONSIBLE FOR DECADES OF INEPTNESS and an immediate do or die, when everything was so hunky dory for HERB F*G SENDEK NEVER TO COMPETE IN THE ACC or consistently win anywhere?!!!

  19. vtpackfan 08/30/2006 at 12:31 PM #

    Red^ way to cover the the cracking embers. 4 maybe even 5 years until we are talking about why things aren’t looking rosy in the recruiting stars picture. We all want to see four or five GAMES under his belt so we can have something actually to talk about. The style of play will out last every recruit and will be the longest lasing legacy Sid will attempt build. He played for Wooten, so he knows that the game is more important then “sleepers” and “studs”. He also played and won in the ACC and NCAA tourneys, and coached at the highest level and found out a littl e something about having a serious disadvantage in the talent category. Where will he turn up as far as his recruiting, more towards Wooten or more towards the “I never want to coach a team who is out gunned before the game starts” NBA style. We will see, but probably not as soon as we see what kind of style of play (offense, defense, and does he talk to his players at time outs) before we see much of a pattern in recruiting.
    P.S. Go to Mike Montgomery thread that just opened and see how I’m fighting to keep Sid on the front of everyones mind.

  20. Dan 08/30/2006 at 1:31 PM #

    Personally, I cant figure out why you guys always go back to the last coach. He is gone. I dont care. I suggest you guys get over it. I suggest you take the Dan Oath: I will never, ever, type the letters H-E-(letter after Q)-B again in consecutive order.

    Btw, Red. You are right. He never did achieve any sort of consistency. And, yeah, he tried to run a half court set without a freaking PG. Mostly because he tried and failed to ever recruit one. (No points for trying.) And, yeah, he ran a different offense than the one he advertised to a lot of recruits. All things I’ve been saying since he left. I have no love for how he coached. But you know the world is not full of Pro-old coach and anti-old coach people. And just because you couldnt stand the last coach doesnt mean you have to love everything the new coach does by default. Think people. This is a new era. One that has nothing to do with that old bald guy. Coach Lowe has to stand on his own two feet now. This is tough conference. It can take a new coach and chew him up if he isnt ready. That’s life. It aint fair, but anyone who expects it to be is kidding himself.

    Unfortunately, Sidney has to learn the college recruiting game at damn near record pace or NC State is going to fall to Clemson like depths. It would take decades to get it out that sort of hole. The program cant be allowed to fall consistently to the bottom while any coach, I dont care who he is, develops recruiting ties. That’s not really here or there regarding Sidney. That’s just something for any coach who ever comes in the door here.

  21. redfred2 08/30/2006 at 2:01 PM #

    ^VT in reality, does the guy (Lowe) even have a choice or any way to exhibit a recruiting style any time soon? NO. He has to take whatever he can get and be make the best of it. The players that were originally sequestered by some mind altering form of recruiting that I will never even begin to figure out, have scattered here and there, with only one exception. What ever led them to sign up for a boring this, and boring that, boring in every way, program that did never contended for any titles, is way beyond my simple mind.

    Lowe will show us something on the basketball court this season. That is, anyone who is looking hard enough to see it irregardless of the talent he has to work with. We already know there are some people who are dead set on denying every positive step that Sidney Lowe makes. He needs to recruiting 5 star athletes and RIGHT NOW. That’s irregardless that his predecessor didn’t do it in a decade, and the shambles of a gelatinous blob of a basketball program he has inherited.

    The players will be playing hard for their coach, and more importantly in the name of the university. Even if it’s all for losses, that will bring NC State basketball back closer to what we all want it to be, than every win we’ve witnessed for a solid decade.

  22. redfred2 08/30/2006 at 2:18 PM #

    Dan you slipped that post in on me. What you are having trouble comprehending is that we are lower than Clemson right now. We can’t recruit until something evolves on the basketball court. It’s not a pleasant thought, but while Clemson has been trudging along at a consistently unimpressive pace, we have been inconsistently impressive, then consistently unimpressive, all with the same groups of basketball players.

    Clemson doesn’t have to overcome that embarrasing inconsistency, or a national coaching search which made us a laughing stock in the media. We’re at about rock bottom, get behind your coach, he doesn’t have many cards to play at the moment.

  23. Dan 08/30/2006 at 2:37 PM #

    Red, we are not lower than Clemson. Not even close. Do you realize that they havent been the tourney in 8 years? The only thing Clemson has done consistently is suck.

    I dont think you realize how bad the basketball program at Clemson has been. Now Purnell is doing his damnest to get people to care, and he is decent coach, but that program is in a bad state. Way worse than it is here. Let’s not get all crazy. We have been a tourney team the last five. Its just that we’ve been a lower echelon tourney team. Not a contender. One of the fluff teams that gets in because they let so many freaking teams in. But Clemson is so bad that they cant even get in. They havent even been a good NIT team. They are not better than us. But if we do not get some talent in the next two classes, they will be.

  24. redfred2 08/30/2006 at 5:51 PM #


    I beat on people for proclaiming 5 tourney appearances as something to jump up and down about, but you are right, we WERE not as bad as Clemson.

    At present though, with all that has happened, or really NOT happened, I would say we are in a deeper hole than you are willing to admit. There aren’t 15, 16, and 17, teenager basketball who know enough to distinguish us from Clemson or the rest of the pack in the ACC. All of the arguments you and others have stated on this site about Lowe’s lacking college coaching/recruiting experience, the late start, and the learning curve, are truly factors in the whole program scenario.

    All I am saying is let’s give the guy a fair chance to prove it. I know I’ve said it before, but I would be willing to bet that Lowe’s hands were tied on former the incoming recruits and that he is still, and will be experiencing set backs from bad policy for years. I think parts of your argument are legit and I would more apt to let them pass by if Lowe wasn’t an alum and former NCSU great. But I still wouldn’t agree with your assessment of the shape of the basketball program, it is a lifeless skeleton. There is nothing endearing about NC State basketball and no reason for a young kid to have any desire to put on a Wolfpack uniform.

    Rebuilding that fundamental desire is Lowe’s only job right now. The rest of the puzzle will start to fall in place quickly after that.

  25. redfred2 08/30/2006 at 11:39 PM #

    “Personally, I cant figure out why you guys always go back to the last coach.”

    Dan, It’s because of your sudden hyper criticism of the head coaching position. It has never shown itself before even during some worst case scenarios that have ever played out, and right before your very own eyes. Also your sudden demand for 4 & 5 star talent at every position, that never happened in ten years either, but it wasn’t such a big deal to you then. You were always pointing one, two or more years on down the road. Yet you can’t even give this guy one game???

    There was no sign of panic, no hurry, we were doing just fine. What’s the matter now? Have you had a bad health examination? If not, what is your newly found and unrelenting rush with Wolfpack basketball only of late?

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