BBall Scheduling Talk

Since we were talking football scheduling on Tuesday, I figured that we might as well also take care of some basketball scheduling. BJD beat me to the topic of scheduling back in May, so I wanted to piggyback his thoughts before NC State released the 2006-2007 Basketball Schedule.

New Director of Basketball Operations, Quentin Jackson commented on State’s scheduling in the News & Observer in May:

State’s new director of basketball operations, Quentin Jackson, already is looking at filling holes in future game schedules. About 95 percent of next season’s nonconference schedule is set, Jackson said Thursday, so he is focused on the 2007-08 season and beyond.

“We want to play the top teams in the country because that’s what we did when we played,” said Jackson, the starting point guard for the Wolfpack’s 1987 ACC Tournament championship team.

At the same time, he added, State will balance the nonconference schedule with games against mid-major conference opponents and non-ACC teams from within the state.

“I don’t want to schedule him out of a job,” Jackson joked, referring to Lowe. “But at the same time, to challenge the kids to reach their highest potential, if you [want to] do that consistently, you’re going to play some of those top 20 teams.”

This is music to most Wolfpackers’ ears; especially those that have supported the program by purchasing LifeTime Rights since the ESA/RBC opened and have too rarely experienced marquee match-ups on the Wolfpack’s home court.

2006-2007 Schedule

* We know that the 2006-2007 basketball schedule already includes a visit by the Michigan Wolverines to the RBC Center (a projected NCAA Tournament team).

* NC State will play Delaware State on November 17th. (Link)

* NC State will likely host Gardner-Webb on November 24th.

Gardner-Webb is set to begin the 2006-2007 season at the NABC Guardian’s Classic, and has games tentatively scheduled at NC State (Nov. 24), Wake Forest (Dec. 19), Georgia (Dec. 5) and Wisconsin (Dec. 27) next season. GWU is also set to host UNC Greensboro (Nov. 21) and Western Carolina (Dec. 9) prior to a challenging 20-game Atlantic Sun Conference schedule.

* SFN has heard talk of the Wolfpack playing UNC-W. I put UNC-W in the same bucket as UNC-Charlotte and ECU — far too much risk for far too little reward. Why schedule such a game with such a solid team whom we will get a disproportionate amount of credit if we win compared to the level of difficulty/risk of beating them?

* Additionally, a trip to West Virginia to battle ‘almost coach’, John Beilien’s Mountaineers may also be in the cards. This would be a return game from WVU’s visit to Raleigh two season’s ago. The return game was originally scheduled for last season, but in a move that was a surprise to no-one who followed Herb Sendek’s scheduling philosophies, State/Sendek wanted to push the game back a year in order to avoid playing a senior-laden, highly-ranked Mountaineer program last year. Correction: We received some correspondence from some folks that we trust that indicated that West Virginia actually asked to postpone the series a year, not NC State. This was done so they could get a home-and-home with UCLA that CBS wanted to televise. Thanks for the correction!

* State may also receive a home game from Alabama this season as a return of last year’s trip to Tuscaloosa. Considering that it was publicly stated during the Larry Davis debacle that State would travel to the New Jersey Meadowlands to battle Seton Hall this year, perhaps we could defer the Bama game for a year or so? Isn’t the schedule shaping up to be a little too difficult in light of how thin the Pack is looking for the year?

* There has also been some talk about a game with the University of Cincinnati as Andrew Brackman’s ‘home game’…but, is this game necessary if Brackman isn’t playing basketball?

* It was widely publicized that part of Monte Towe’s buyout package from the University of New Orleans would be “funded” by some basketball games between NC State and UNO. By the looks of this release from UNO, the series with the Wolfpack doesn’t look to be starting this season.

Other Scheduling Talke

* One thing that we know is that NC State will NOT be playing in this year’s Pre-season NIT. State/Sendek were supposedly cued up to participate in the tournament this year, but were (of course) quick to back out when it was reported that Boston College had agreed to be in the field when they were a member of the Big East. But, Boston College isn’t in the field and the University of North Carolina will represent the ACC in this year’s Preseason NIT.

* nycfan has added a little to ^this in the comments below:

I think you have it wrong about the PNIT — State was scheduled to be in it NEXT season, but conflicted with BC. UNC has been scheduled for this season’s PNIT for a while. I don’t know how it was decided BC would keep the slot for next year.

SFN: Thanks for the correction! It got so damn hard to keep up with the misinformation that the HSSSers would release that it was hard to keep up with which year (ALWAYS in the future) that we were ‘supposed’ to be playing in which tournaments (only to never end up having it be true. Was this the season that we were supposedly “maybe” going to be in Maui?

* This idea of a 1983 Reunion in 2008 looks like it would be awesome and could provide some SERIOUS national coverage for Sidney Lowe and NC State’s basketball program.

“The plan is to reunite the ’83 Final Four teams — State, Houston, Georgia and Louisville — for the 2008 Jimmy V Classic doubleheader that’s normally played in New Jersey.

“We think it would be a great way to commemorate the 25th anniversary of Coach Valvano’s greatest win,” said Dennis Latta, assistant director of the New Mexico Sports Authority”

* How does this field look for the 2006 Maui Invitational? Chaminade, DePaul, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Memphis, Oklahoma, Purdue and UCLA. WOW!!

06-07 Basketball General

49 Responses to BBall Scheduling Talk

  1. TomA 07/27/2006 at 1:08 AM #

    The idea of eventually having a ’83 reunion mini-tournry could be wonderful if properly done. I am glad to see the new staff wanting to add better teams to the schedule…as said you don’t want to kill the team with a murder’s row set-uo but the better and stronger the schedule I really think the more prepared the team for tournament play. Although everyone at the time was pretty irked about Herb pulling NCSU away form the Maui Invitational it may be better for NCSU not to be there now with the losses the the team took in players leaving and recruits changing their minds. However given time I really think Coach Lowe will give the university teams that will, in a few seasons, be more than up to the challenge of going there!

  2. Mr O 07/27/2006 at 7:29 AM #

    That is too bad the football scheduling discussion got closed. People tried to provide examples of programs that made tough OOC schedules to become great programs. Examples were Fresno St, Miami and FSU.

    Fresno St doesn’t play the schedule of the new ACC, nor are they a great program. Miami and FSU were both independents, so they had to schedule tougher games because they didn’t have the new ACC schedule…they played patsies also. Even FSU after 1991 isn’t a great example because they were already a great program and the old ACC was nowhere near what it is today.

    Basketball scheduling is a different ballgame altogether. Unfortunately, it looks like we need to schedule an NIT appearance from next year’s team instead of trying to toughen it up to be ready for the NCAA’s.

  3. StateFans 07/27/2006 at 8:06 AM #

    Just got an email from someone who indicated that they had ‘heard’ that NC State was talking about playing a HOME AND HOME series with ECU in the coming years in basketball.

    There is NO WAY that this can be true. Is there?

    Has anyone heard anything?

  4. Mr O 07/27/2006 at 8:34 AM #

    Who is the ECU coach? Is it Ricky Stokes who played in the ACC the same time as Lowe?

  5. RickJ 07/27/2006 at 8:48 AM #

    ^Stokes played at UVA for Holland. Not sure about the timing but I think he is a little older than Lowe. Was also closely associated with Dave Odom.

  6. joe 07/27/2006 at 8:51 AM #

    Stokes was 1 year behind Lowe – he finished in 84.

  7. nycfan 07/27/2006 at 8:58 AM #

    I think you have it wrong about the PNIT — State was scheduled to be in it NEXT season, but conflicted with BC. UNC has been scheduled for this season’s PNIT for a while. I don’t know how it was decided BC would keep the slot for next year.

    SFN – Thanks for the correction! It got so damn hard to keep up with the misinformation that the HSSSers would release that it was hard to keep up with which year (ALWAYS in the future) that we were ‘supposed’ to be playing in which tournaments (only to never end up having it be true. Was this the season that we were supposedly “maybe” going to be in Maui?

  8. duckmanjw 07/27/2006 at 9:03 AM #

    Mr. O,

    How dare you say Fresno St. is not a great program? Everyone over in Chapel Hill think they pulled the OC and the OL coach from the greatest program around! HAHAHAHAHA!!

  9. Trout 07/27/2006 at 9:11 AM #

    Stokes took the last shot in the ’83 ACC Title game between NC State and UVA.

    NC State is confirmed to play WVU, but the game will be in Charleston, WV, not on WVU’s campus (Morgantown, WV).

    I’m hearing UNC-W is confirmed as well.

  10. redfred2 07/27/2006 at 9:43 AM #

    O, This OOC debate seems to be going round and round in circles. I definitely prefer playing much better competition, not every game, but teams that mean something when we win, not just the ones that get us TOO much notoriety when play poorly or lose.

    I think you, or maybe it was someone else, stated the fact that the OOC games really do not count towards the ACC championship unless of course in the event of a tie breaker. I know you said we needed to concentrate on the conference but I do not see how playing Appalachian, or the likes, with the exception of the very game of the year, prepares any team to walk into Tallahassee, Miami, Blacksburg, Boston, Clemson, much less
    W-Salem and Chapel Hill. If strong OOC competition gets us prepared for whatever the conference has in store and actually helps build a better team, what is the problem with it?

    Playing these guys early is like playing nothing but Putt-Putt all week to tune up for the Masters.

  11. TomCat 07/27/2006 at 9:49 AM #

    On the other hand, playing UNC-W, UNC-CLT or ECU does ensure a bump in attendance over hosting a random cupcake from parts unknown. Just beat’em. That should be our philosophy. Terry Holland (ecu) already has a series (home/away) established with Wake and others (ACC/SEC/BigEast).

    Jeff: I don’t understand this. We played both ECU and Charlotte in the RBC a few years ago in front of the smalles crowds in this history of the building.

  12. redfred2 07/27/2006 at 10:03 AM #

    Sorry to drag football over here, but it is exactly like basketball in terms of scheduling. If you want run up the totals in the wins column on nobody’s and not really help the team prepare for the future, then stay the course as far as scheduling goes in both football and basketball. We are already proof of exactly where that philosophy leads.

    Jeff: I respectfully disagree. Football and Basketball are completely different sports, with completely different structures, with completely different definitions of success and completely different post-seasons. You typically play about 40% to 45% of a basketball schedule against OOC. You typically play 25% to 33% of a football schedule against OOC. Basketball and Football scheduling are no where close to being “just alike”.

  13. BJD95 07/27/2006 at 10:13 AM #

    As I noted in my previous comments, I like QJ’s approach. If we play nothing but cupcakes early (even with a thin, marginal squad like next year’s), then ACC play will be even more painful than it is already shaping up to be.

    Start instilling the “championship mentality” NOW. We may take some lumps early on, but it will pay off in the long term. Trust me.

  14. class of 74 07/27/2006 at 10:28 AM #

    Let’s use the same reasoning some of you subscribe to in scheduling for admission to NCSU. If you can fog a mirror you are qualified to enroll at NCSU, now what do you think of that? Does that appeal to you? Do you think that adds value to your degree or the public perception of NCSU graduate?

    Every sport can use a tuneup game that’s just common sense but not 25% to 40% of our scheduled opponents, please!

  15. StateFans 07/27/2006 at 10:45 AM #

    Not being argumentative…but, from what set of data do you draw your conclusion that 25% to 40% of scheduled opponents is NOT acceptable?

    Again, not arguing. But, if every ACC school plays 40% of their OOC schedule as tune ups…then why is that not acceptable?

    I don’t know how these numbers actually fall out…just curious against what set of data that we chose to compare to say what is acceptable or not.

  16. Trout 07/27/2006 at 10:52 AM #

    “State/Sendek wanted to push the game back a year in order to avoid playing a senior-laden, highly-ranked Mountaineer program last year.”

    That’s not true. West Virginia asked to postpone the series a year, not NC State, so they could get a home-and-home with UCLA that CBS wanted to televise.

    The WVU team that NC State played in Raleigh ended up making the Elite 8.

    SFN: Looks like we were correcting this the same time that you were typing it. To be fair & accurate about the point…the WVU team that NC State played in Raleigh was the first year that they started succeeding and little was expected of them prior to the season. It isn’t like we went out looking for a behemoth to schedule. We actually got burned since they ended up being so much better….in only John Beilein’s third season.

  17. redfred2 07/27/2006 at 10:57 AM #

    We are talking about decidedly different numbers with regards to the OOC scheduling in football and basketball. Every game counts in both sports, but there is more leeway too mix in a few patsy’s here and there in basketball and still challenge the players. Less overall games during the football season makes every game crucial and it becomes a necessity to try to schedule games that will help players spot their own weaknesses and develop more quickly.

    Bothgames are team sports, but if either team goes through the early OOC shedule without being challenged, then every player on both the FB and BB programs, has no incentive or reasons to personally work harder on his own game. They find out later, in conference and where it matters, when they get manhandled by a lineman who is 65 lbs heavier and twice as fast as anything they’ve faced before, or play a team with three or four McDonald’s all Americans and are left to scratch heads trying to figure out why what netted them a 40 point win against Gardner Webb just a couple of days ago, has them down by 12 only 4 minutes into the game.

    Limited and within reason, losses to good teams help shape a developing program for the rest of the season and for their future years, much more than meaningless wins over inferior competition. Ask the players.

  18. Trout 07/27/2006 at 10:59 AM #

    I dont think you can really compare basketball scheduling vs football scheduling because of the # of games involved, the importance of a loss in football is significantly more than in basketball, and the structure of basketball (the goal is to prepare for the ACC Regular season and NCAA Tournament)

  19. Mr O 07/27/2006 at 11:05 AM #

    Trout: Do you think our coaching staff was upset about having to agree to help W. Va?

    My guess is no.

  20. Trout 07/27/2006 at 11:09 AM #

    I wouldnt think so. This year’s matchup will be interesting because both teams lose just about everything. The game is in Charleston, WV, which I think helps NC State. Having the game in Morgantown would be a tougher place to win. I’ll be at that game.

  21. RickJ 07/27/2006 at 11:19 AM #

    For me, OOC scheduling for basketball is much different than football. There are objective consequences to playing a weak OOC in basketball because of the use of the RPI in selecting the NCAA tourney field as well as the seeding. I am very grateful to this site for helping me to understand this process better. People have posted on this forum that bowl selections are influenced by the strength of your OOC – I don’t believe this for a minute. I believe an NC State team with an 8 – 4 overall record with a pathetic OOC schedule is way more attractive to a bowl committee that a 6 -6 one that played a brutal OOC (let’s assume we were 4 – 4 in the league in both cases).

    Another popular post I see is that playing tough OOC teams makes for better preparation before conference play. There is some logic to this line of thinking but I have never seen any real analysis to back it up. Amato & Bunting took over programs that were in pretty similar shape. Overall, Bunting has faced a tougher OOC schedule and an easier in-conference schedule (Duke factor). As mediocre as Chuck’s 23 – 25 ACC has been, it looks pretty stout compared to Bunting’s 16 – 24 mark. Who knows though, maybe if Bunting had played a weaker OOC, his ACC mark might have been even worse.

  22. class of 74 07/27/2006 at 11:21 AM #

    The 25% to 40% figure I referred to was an approximation that’s all. Since this is following yesterday’s football discussion I was thinking in terms of both sports. My idea is 1 cupcake in football is plenty and 3 to 4 in basketball is plenty. When we recruit these young men I hope we sell them on coming here to challenge themselves by playing at a school that plays in the best b-ball conference in the country, where you too can be a national champion. Just like we were in 1974 and 1983. Not that you should come here because we play in the best conference part of the year, sure, but we loaf with 40% of schedule so don’t worry we won’t overload you while you are here. The kids like the challenge, it’s the damn alummni that fear what the record might be and how someone at the water cooler may chide them. Nothing in life worthwhile comes easy, that’s what I was taught anyway!

  23. wirogers 07/27/2006 at 11:35 AM #

    I am glad to see State back in the Jimmy V Classic. As with Herb’s wanting to distance himself from State’s B-Ball history, he never wanted to be part of this potentially great small tournament.

    I think State should start to work with this Classic event and ESPN to grow it into a top-notch event. Maybe even bring it to the RBC center.

    Jimmy V was a great part of our history and State should do what it can to assist his foundation since it is a great cause.

    Hopefully Coach Lowe will work to repair these fractions with State’s history, as a long time State fan and Alumni; our history is what makes us the great fan base that we are

  24. nycfan 07/27/2006 at 11:55 AM #

    I thought the prior regime’s hoops scheduling was too clever for its own good — a lot of decent match-ups with teams between 75-150 (plus some dogs and dogs with fleas in that ridiculous BCA tournament) gave State an RPI advantage, but it did little to give the fans match-ups to look forward to or TV a reason to line-up to cover State. In the last several years, I have typically seen 1 NCSU game (the Big Ten Challenge) by Xmas. State definitely needs some higher profile match-ups, though the coming season might not be the time to start.

  25. Mike 07/27/2006 at 12:00 PM #

    The V classic belongs at Reynolds. Bring the classic to 12,400 seat William Neal Reynolds Colisuem. Bring back CA Dillon, the noise meter (that we all know was controlled with a switch on press row), and lets cram 9000 screaming fanatics into the end zones. Those were the days. I think SFN has enough clout to make this happen. Lets do it!

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