Search De-Brief Scoop: Brown’s Buyout not Surprising

ESPN is reporting that Larry Brown’s dream job may end after one season with the New York Knicks.

Surprise, surprise. 🙂

Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan, who’s upset over Brown’s record and the coach’s public criticism of his players, is considering buying out the final four years of the coach’s contract, the New York Daily News and New York Post reported in Sunday’s editions.

The buyout is worth at least $40 million, the newspaper reported. The Knicks declined to comment.

One published report indicated Knicks president Isiah Thomas was in line to replace Brown as head coach, the newspaper said, but the team would not confirm nor deny it.

Brown, who led the Knicks to a 23-59 season, has indicated that he will not resign. But the club could avoid having to pay another coach upward of $5 million a year if Thomas takes the job, the Daily News reported. One source told the newspaper that Thomas — who coached the Pacers from 2000-2003 — would be amenable to coaching the Knicks.

We received a lot of praise from a lot of fans during our month long coverage of the NC State coaching search. Some of the praise that we appreciated the most came from people close to the search who were surprised not just at the information that we had, but who were pleased with the way that we chose to show restraint on much of our information. (Too bad Lee Fowler doesn’t get it). We worked hard to analyze as much as we could while choosing not to discuss sensitive scoop until after the news had moved out of ‘high risk’ territory.

Since the search, we have been slow to ‘debrief’ as we promised because – like many Wolfpackers – we are trying to make up for lost time with our jobs, or families, and our other responsibilities.

But today’s news regarding Brown provides us a perfect opportunity to jump into the mix and share a little information with you that is harmless to share at this point.

We ask you to take a look at our Coaching Search comments on May 2nd, two days before Lowe emerged in public as the Wolfpack’s choice. On May 2nd, we stated:

We’ll just throw this out as something that maybe we come back to in the future. We’ve know some names that were being discussed in Raleigh last week that are not prudent to share with the public at this juncture. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to put together — but a particular big name would be much easier to sell to NC State fans (and recruits) if Sidney Lowe was riding shotgun as the #1 assistant on the bench. Such a role would help Lowe evolve into a better head coach in the future and provide him valuable time of getting acclimated to college basketball. Lowe’s presence would also help mitigate “short term‿ risk that may exist with any potential candidates. It is just something that needs to be considered by the powers that be. We would consider such a team a home run.

The conversation that ensued in our comments section was an interesting one. Lots of people with lots of interesting and insightful thoughts.

The truth of the matter is that when we ran those comments, we were referring to later-stage conversations that Lee Fowler and NC State were simultaneously having with Larry Brown and Sidney Lowe.

In fact, after the Beilein & Lavin debacle on April 26th, Lee Fowler’s attention was focused exclusively and immediately on Larry Brown and Sidney Lowe. Each candidate had detailed conversations (call it an ‘interview’ if you want) with State on Thurs/Fri Apri 27th/28th.

As you can see from the linked ESPN article – Brown’s contractual buyout in New York could be as large as $40 million. There is NO WAY that he would simply resign and give up that kind of future payout. The Knicks have prudently waited until the State job (and other jobs) have been filled in the hopes that Brown would make a jump on his own. (Can you say – Mike Montgomery? We’ll discuss that more in the future.)

So, if State had wanted to pursue Brown, Fowler would still be flailing around without a coach and most certainly have experienced a complete implosion of the program with assured defections of existing players and recruits that we now have the opportunity to salvage. Not an option.

In the end, Brown was extremely complimentary of Sidney Lowe. In fact, Brown’s glowing comments of Lowe played a major role in bringing some doubters into the Lowe camp. Sidney’s articulate conversations with key figures had already helped ease concerns about his degree situation, and Brown’s comments helped ease other concerns. Brown advised Fowler/State to completely ignore Lowe’s overall record in the NBA because of the horrible state of the franchises that Lowe inherited. He also informed that Lowe is known in the NBA as an excellent x-and-o tactician who even runs the Pistons’ practices on a daily basis.

More comments:

* During his conversations with State, Brown took the opportunity to promote his assistant, Phil Ford as a perfect candidate for the job. (Do some of the Phil Ford ‘discussions’ now come into clearer view for you?)

* We know nothing about conversations related to the kind of staff that Brown would have proposed to have constructed in Raleigh. Obviously, the potential “Carolina flavor” of such a staff could have been an issue.

* Of course there would have been significant risks with potential hiring of Larry Brown, but SFN would have drolled over the thought of Brown running the show in Raleigh for a few years IF it was all put together with some strategic thought. Brown is one of the ten best college basketball coaches in the world and would have been worth the gamble if NC State was able to think proactively and construct some mechanisms to innovatively mitigate those risks. If Sidney Lowe would have accompanied Brown as a very prominent #1 assistant (as we commented on May 2nd), a lot of the “Carolina” risk and “succeession” would have been mitigated.

* Brown doesn’t want to recruit. He’s too old and it just doesn’t fit him. Although we all think Sidney Lowe is going to be a super recruiter in the future, he is not one now. This would have left a big hole on a hypothetical staff and may have created a lot of short-term risk.

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49 Responses to Search De-Brief Scoop: Brown’s Buyout not Surprising

  1. BJD95 05/15/2006 at 9:57 AM #

    In an even stranger twist, I heard this morninbg that Golden State might now be ready to fire Mike Montgomery and replace him with…Larry Brown.

    A guy who wanted to be fired so he could take our job is (after our job is filled) fired and replaced by another guy who was intrigued by the possibility of getting bought out and taking our job.

  2. Dan 05/15/2006 at 10:19 AM #

    “In an even stranger twist, I heard this morninbg that Golden State might now be ready to fire Mike Montgomery and replace him with…Larry Brown.”

    I’m sure that if GS thinks they have a shot at Brown sticking with Monty seems a big risk.

  3. Wulfpack 05/15/2006 at 10:59 AM #

    This is all just part of a convoluted plot for LB to satisfy his sick desire to coach every NBA franchise before it’s time to say “good-night”. Where’s Larry headed next?

    His NBA career:

    1976-78 Denver
    1981-82 New Jersey
    1988-90 San Antonio
    1991-92 LA Clippers
    1993-96 Indiana
    1997-2002 Philadelphia
    2003-04 Detroit
    2005-? New York

  4. Dan 05/15/2006 at 11:10 AM #

    Wouldnt it be hilarious if Larry Brown wound up with GS after leaving Detroit for the Mecca?

    This may be proof that Isaiah Thomas can screw up just about anything. Maybe we can all get Lee Fowler a job in the Knicks front office. I think he’d fit right in.

  5. redfred2 05/15/2006 at 2:37 PM #

    Is there anybody in any official position at NCSU, to keep harping our interest to the young recruits RIGHT NOW!!!!??? If so, who is it?

  6. redfred2 05/15/2006 at 3:10 PM #

    SFN help me out.

    I don’t know if that was a stupid question in my last post or not? I am completely in the dark about timeframes regarding legal contacts with recruits. If there is an opportunity to contact these kids right now, who is already in place, at their new position with NC State, to do so?

  7. Wulfpack 05/15/2006 at 3:46 PM #

    Redfred2- See David Glenn’s recent post regarding this:

    http://html.wral.com/sh/blogger/wralglenn.html

    My take on it is kids need to speak w/ the source. They cannot, by rule, speak to Sidney now. Until they can, they will continue to brainstorm other scenarios. Who would play for a coach unless they had a legitimate conversation with him?

  8. Dan 05/15/2006 at 3:51 PM #

    Red,

    Sidney Lowe cannot contact any of these kids until he passes the NCAA test on recruiting. Currently, only those coaches officially on staff that have passed and taken the test are able to contact these guys. It is my understanding that when Sid talked to these kids the first time it was arranged for the recruits to call him, which is legal. That means Larry Harris and, if he is officially on board today, Pete Strickland are the only ones that can make contact. If Q’Jack has taken the test then he too can contact them. However, assume the role of dad for a second. Would you encourage your son to make a decision before talking to the guy in charge first?

    As far as long term damages due to the loss of players this year, that has yet to be seen. But a losing season in his first year would certainly make recruiting much more difficult in the future. That said, know that the bulk of the ’07 class will be signed in November before the ACC season starts and before the ‘Pack faces a lot of stiff competition. The ’07 recruiting class will determine whether Fowler’s screw up has forced us into a total rebuilding project or if Lowe can overcome LF’s idiocy and build upon what was left. You just cant afford a year of bad recruiting in college basketball anymore. The rosters are too unstable. Not to mention that the positions in the most need, PG and C, were the most affected by the departure of Herb Sendek.

  9. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 05/15/2006 at 3:56 PM #

    I don’t understand why Sidney can’t talk to these kids. He is not the coach of NC State until July 1st. Why would going to visit these kids be subject to any recruiting violation when he is a pro coach.

    Sidney Lowe, an Assistant Coach with the Detriot Pistons can not visit these kids as an agent of the Detriot Pistons? It would seem to me that NCAA regulations wouldn’t apply to Sidney until Lowe is an agent for an NCAA school.

  10. Dan 05/15/2006 at 4:06 PM #

    He could’ve talked to these kids before he was a candidate. Bob Huggins was recruiting the entire time he was out of coaching. He talked to OJ Mayo more than any current coach was allowed to under the rules. Bob could go buy him dinner. Whatever he wanted. He was just a guy on the street. It may look shady afterwards, but Huggy doesnt care about appearances either. And he also isnt afraid of the NCAA.

    I dont think Sid was considering coaching here until it was too late for those types of things.

  11. BJD95 05/15/2006 at 4:18 PM #

    I can’t really speak to recruiting rules, etc. – because I really don’t know anything about it. Following recruiting in general is not my forte.

  12. cfpack03 05/15/2006 at 4:45 PM #

    from repo on DG’s blog:
    This very similar to what Oklahoma went through after losing Kelvin Sampson to Indiana earlier this year. Unfortunately they released all 3 recruits who went elsewhere, including 2 McDonalds AA’s.
    LF cannot let this happen here. We cannot mishandle this recruiting situation

  13. jbwbubba 05/15/2006 at 5:14 PM #

    I think Sidney can speak with our three current recruits on the phone. Because, I think Lowe spoke to them before his presser last saturday. At least I recall that being reported that Sidney called I think Davis. I don’t think he can’t go to their home and recruit off campus. Again not 100% on any of it.

  14. vtpackfan 05/15/2006 at 6:02 PM #

    “You just cant afford a year of bad recruiting in college basketball anymore. The rosters are too unstable.”
    I respectfully disagree with this statment. The fluidity of national BB scene that you characterize as unstable is precisely a good reason not to be overly concerned with these three recruits. IMHO, this is viewed as negative only if you plan on getting guys in here and teaching them an offense such as the modified Princeton, triangle, ect. These systems are inherently “process” oriented. With any profitable process line you need continuity in volume and quality of the product.

  15. Dan 05/15/2006 at 9:02 PM #

    VT,

    You can afford it if your program is a long proven winner over the last ten to twenty years…maybe. But even UCLA and UK basically took a nose dive after one year of bad recruiting. Or you can afford a bad year if you have a stockpile of talent currently on your team. If Ced leaves, we do not. Maybe you can afford it if you have a coach that has proven he is better than that one class over a long period of time. We do not.

    And we could afford it IF Sid can come in and get a nice 2007 haul in his first class. But he is already behind in the ’07 class. Its possible it will prove tough to make up distance. That will make two bad years in a row. You definitely cant afford that when you are trying to build a reputation.

  16. redfred2 05/15/2006 at 11:08 PM #

    Somebody, even Mr Lee Fowler himself, needs to be scratching to cover the pile of pooh that this coaching search has created. If anyone at the university has the rubber stamp from the NCAA on recruiting, they need to be on the horn, or in the faces of the recruits that were already leaning our way, before this “unexpected” coaching change took place.

    I disagree with some that losing recuits will create major problems, this is already a major rebuilding process, and it was long before Sendek ever decided to leave. But if recruits are actually being lost to other schools due to the simple fact that there was not even one person left at NCSU to contact them, someone already approved by the NCAA, because no one anticipated the “surprise” coaching change, then one man’s head should have been bouncing off the curbs already.

    The hole was deep enough even with a quick, smooth hire. If we are losing out on players and potential to this very day, because of further overlooked issues and technicallities, and being set still further back, it is absolutely inexcusable.

  17. Jeremy Hyatt 05/15/2006 at 11:17 PM #

    there are a lot of Ifs right now, and depending on how they sway could change our situation immensely. heck, look what happened to Wake Forest after Chris Paul left.

    I think Simmons needs to develop his game more. hell, after the Duke game, he didn’t really have any other breakout game. if he stays, he could have a true breakout season and put up some gaudy number, and get a legit top 10 pick. Of course, if he is projected relatively high now, he may think this is his chance and should take it.

    Still, losing him would be a big loss. And I think if we lose Davis or Werner that would be a big loss. And if we lose Grant to the Jamacians, that would be a big loss as well. And then there’s Chris Wright. a lot of IFs, or rather afterstocks of the coaching change.

    I don’t know how soon Lowe can pass this exam and talk to our recruits, but we should have considered this when hiring him. He should have met with the recruits before accepted the position to get that out of the way. Now this mess. blah.

  18. redfred2 05/15/2006 at 11:26 PM #

    ^^Thanks for the info about Lowe’s status involving recruits. Is Larry Harris or anyone qualified, already here and working on the recruiting aspect right now, or not?

    I have confidence in, and am excited as hell about Sidney Lowe, but how much more of a handicap will he be burdened with before he even gets here?

  19. Jeremy Hyatt 05/16/2006 at 1:40 AM #

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2438924

    Lowe is allowed to contact his current players. The Wolfpack return 11 players (including walk-ons). That also includes sophomore center Cedric Simmons, who declared for the NBA draft but hasn’t signed with an agent. Lowe has spoken to Simmons on multiple occasions. If there is any current college coach with a pulse on what NBA teams want, it would be Lowe after looking at this draft from an NBA perspective.

    “I told him, ‘Can you get drafted? Absolutely, but where no one really knows,” Lowe said. “We’re hearing mid-to-late first round, but I asked him, ‘Do you want to just get drafted or be the best player in the draft? You’re not a mid first-round player.’ If you go into the draft, you should be in the lottery and he could be the first player picked so why settle on coming out now?”

    Lowe echoed what other coaches, like Florida’s Billy Donovan, have said recently, which is that the big money is in the second contract in the NBA. If a first-round pick isn’t playing much in the second and final guaranteed year of his initial contract, it will be hard for him to land a more lucrative second contract.

    “Bottom line is that it isn’t self-serving for me, but rather for him,” Lowe said.

    If Simmons returns, Lowe will focus the offense more on him. He wants to run and will be looking to recruit in that manner, but he said he wouldn’t have his team run without Simmons’ touching the ball.

  20. redfred2 05/16/2006 at 9:28 AM #

    ^Dan
    ^JeremyH

    Thanks for the posts!

    That makes me feel somewhat better about the overall situation. I think Dan posted earlier that Lowe cannot have anymore contact with players until after he passes the NCAA recruiting guidelines exam? From the Katz article it appears that Towe has his hands full getting out of NO and Sidney Lowe, well, I admire him for how he is handling all that is required of him right now. Maybe L Harris is on the ground and running, and doing some of the neccessary groundwork that has been sorely neglected because of the shake up. Somebody needs to be constantly on the phone, not bothered with anything else but, shoring up the realtionships with the recruits that were left in limbo.

  21. Rick 05/16/2006 at 11:13 AM #

    “I have no idea. I do have an issue with that alleged statement considering Lowe and Brown have never worked together. ”

    So are you saying that he cannot possibly know how good he is at his job because Lowe did not work for him?
    That is absurd.
    I guarantee you, other coaches know who is good and who is bad at what they do.
    LB may be blowing smoke, but it is not because he does not know.

  22. Dan 05/16/2006 at 12:09 PM #

    I will say this in agreement with VT.

    You can do it Ohio State style. But Matta got all those guys off the ‘initial buzz’ of his hire. There is a window there that allows such things. Once you miss it, it turns into a grind.

    But Sid could make up for two bad years with a whopper in ’08. He really needs to get a solid haul in ’07 though.

  23. redfred2 05/16/2006 at 1:08 PM #

    Solid haul in ’07 will be there after the kids see fire back NC State again. It may take until ’08 for it to be unaffected by these immediate set backs. The kids want to play somewhere big name, with national exposure, and they want to have fun, or they want to play for someone who knows what it takes to get to the next level no matter what. All of those qualities will soon be asserting themselves on the recruiting trail in the name of NCSU.

  24. Wulfpack 05/17/2006 at 1:33 PM #

    Interesting take on the Larry Brown situation:

    http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/basketball/nba/charlotte_bobcats/14597269.htm

    So Larry Brown might be available once more as an NBA coach, if the New York Knicks decide to buy out his contract after one awful season.

    Coincidentally, the Charlotte Bobcats will need a coach before too long. Bernie Bickerstaff, the team’s coach and general manager, will give up his coaching duties at some point — maybe in the next couple of weeks, certainly in the next couple of years.

    Brown is enshrined in basketball’s Hall of Fame. He’s won both NBA and NCAA championships as a coach. He graduated from North Carolina, once coached the American Basketball Association’s Carolina Cougars (who played some home games in Charlotte) and still has connections all over the state.

    Should Brown be the next Charlotte Bobcats coach?

    Absolutely not.

    Brown, 65, is not what the Bobcats need, even though some reports out of New York have speculated otherwise. Brown’s “tortured genius” persona — by turns irritating and admirable for so many years — has worn thin. I don’t think he would take the Bobcats very far, and there’s no doubt he wouldn’t take them for very long.

    Here’s the main problem besides Brown’s nomadic obsession: Although still a superb X-and-O guy, Brown just doesn’t get along with enough people anymore.

    Of the past three teams he has coached — the Detroit Pistons, the 2004 U.S. Olympic team and now the Knicks — two have imploded. In Detroit, where he had huge success, he angered enough people that he and the Pistons parted ways after only two seasons.

    The Knicks brought him in with great fanfare last season and are already weighing the cost of divorce. It would be so expensive — perhaps as much as $40 million to pay off the remaining four years of Brown’s contract — that it might not happen.

    Understand this. Brown works with one of basketball’s most bumbling executives in Isiah Thomas, a wonderful point guard who turns out to be a terrible NBA personnel man.

    So it’s no wonder Brown and Knicks management have issues after a 23-59 embarrassment of a season in New York. But apparently a number of players can’t stand him, either. This often becomes a problem with Brown, for he’s both thin-skinned and shrill.

    Brown’s old roommate at North Carolina, Richard Vinroot, once told me Brown was a superb coach, then added: “He does not take criticism well — although he gives it out very well.”

    If Brown leaves the Knicks, he will have suitors. After all, he’s a winner.

    I doubt anyone who has employed Brown before will call, though.

    The Bobcats shouldn’t call, either, no matter what Bickerstaff decides. (The common guess inside the organization is that he stays as coach/GM for one more season, then becomes GM only).

    As coach, Brown would want to trade or waive half the Bobcats every two weeks. He would be impatient and inconsistent.

    There’d be too much torture, not enough genius. It just wouldn’t work.

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