FBall Position Talk

'06 Football General32

NC State released the post-spring depth chart (Link) a couple of weeks ago.

In order of “most concern” to “least concern”, the following is a list of how I feel about the Wolfpack’s different positions:

(1) Offensive line
(2) Linebackers
(3) Wide receivers
(4) Quarterbacks
(5) Secondary
(6) Defensive Line
(7) Special Teams
(8) Running Backs

I’d love to hear your thoughts about some of the position battles for playing time in 2006. The following are some random observations:

* No surprises at quarterback. At this point, no reason exists to expect Justin Burke (see feature story) to burn a redshirt this year. Daniel Evans has earned raved-reviews from those close to the program over the last two years and could see time if Stone struggles. But, the coaches were very complimentary of Marcus Stone during spring practice, so some reason exists to hope that Stone’s passing skills are improving.

* A little surprised to see Andre Brown listed as #1 and Toney Baker as a clear #2 as opposed to the two sharing the starting position with an “OR”.

* Reggie Davis (SR) moves from running back to linebacker and immediately is listed as a starter. That is either great news that Davis is a natural LB talent, or it is bad news that some of the other linebackers, particularly Ernest Jones (JR) is not as good as previously projected.

* Looks like a moderately experienced and talented secondary that does not provide me a lot of concern right now. We’ll learn how much talent the group possesses sicne they will be tested more than last season if for not other reason that the defensive front won’t get as much pressure on opposing quarterbacks this year as last year.

* Good news for the Pack at defensive end with the addition of Raymond Brooks to the roster. But, we did experience two other losses of players that weren’t expected to make huge contributions. Our friends at RAWFS have good comments on this. Since Littleton Wright and Willie Young were already projected to start, the re-addition of Brooks to the line is huge.

* Don’t misunderstand me, the talent exodus that took place last year was painful to stomach. But, 90% of all college football teams would still trade their defensive tackles for DeMario Pressley and Tank Tyler. We are not as talented (or deep) as before, but don’t confuse that for being untalented.

* Because of the presence of Tyler and Pressley, I think that the premature loss of Stephen Tulloch will ultimately be the most impactful to our program this year. Tulloch was an All-ACC linebacker; a very important position where the Pack is thin and inexperienced. Had Tulloch stayed in school he would have made a mark on the NC State record books. He was THE BEST pure tackler on the squad, almost never failing to wrap up the ball carrier.

* One of the biggest concerns from this year’s spring practice was the defense’s struggles with tackling. Tulloch would have made a huge positive impact on this.

* The offensive line is where any offensive improvement must begin. To be honest, the line play simply cannot get any worse than it has been the last couple of years.

* Offensive line coach, Mike Barry, thankfully slipped into the night to the Detriot Lions during the offseason. (Do you remember who was the first to publicly break Barry’s departure? Allow me to remind you with this link.

VAWOLF: It’s not hard to identify problems. But sometimes its hard to separate the blame between coaching and lack of talent. When you can move a DL to the OL and he starts immediately…..and a true FR gets to play on the OL….that’s a sign that the overall talent level on the OL is not good.

If the play of the OL improves dramatically next year…then it will be easy to hold Barry responsible for the poor line play. If the OL line struggles again next year, then I won’t be concerned about blame….I’ll be looking for something else to do on Sat afternoon.

* Leroy Harris is an All-American candidate at center and has been added to the Rimington watch list. Harris will be flanked on the offesive line by two seniors (James Newby & Jon Holt), junior Kalani Heppe and stud sophomore Curtis Crouch. The line definitely has experience…but how much talent in some places?

* State (wisely) chose to redshirt quite a few freshmen offensive lineman last season that are now working their way onto the depth chart. I was hoping that a more than just Julian Williams, Jeraill McCuller, and Andy Barbee are names to watch.

* One name on the offensive line that is receiving some buzz is that of Meares Green. I’m pretty sure that Green was a walk-on and not heavily recruited. But, the redshirt-sophomore is currently sitting second behind Curtis Crouch at right guard.

* One offensive lineman that is yet to make the kind of impact originally projected is that of junior college transfer, Garrett Kline. Kline was rated America’s #31 JUCO player by SuperPrep’s and #24 by Rivals’ after playing left tackle at Lackawanna Junior College for two years. He was expected to battle for a starting position last season, but was instead redshirted and is currently listed behind Kalani Heppe and Yomi Ojo (both juniors) at left guard.

* Despite his struggles, Derek Morris’ decision to jump to the NFL a year too early will negatively impact the Pack’s short-yardage running game this season.

Please feel free to share with us any and all of your thoughts/comments related to the Wolfpack’s current depth chart and player personnel. Thanks.

'06 Football General

32 Responses to FBall Position Talk

  1. Dan 05/30/2006 at 1:45 PM #

    Good assesment really. With all of our needs though, any list is as good as any other one as long as they list RB last. The LB situation is gonna be rough this year though. Lets all hope for some really big suprises there.

    It was nice to see Yomi Ojo finally started to assert himself enough to get near the top of the depth chart.

    If you keep up with the early recruiting, there are a lot of reasons to be excited about the future of NC State football. Now that there is some staff continuity, we are really seeing Chuck and Co. make some headway in early recruiting that wasnt there the last two years. It could get ugly this year, but the fans need to take heart. Recruiting is back on an up swing. Do not sour too early on Chuck.

  2. GAWolf 05/30/2006 at 1:45 PM #

    While I agree the loss of Tulloch is the most unfortunate of the early departures, I think that poor tackling has been something that has plagued all of Amato’s teams. For a defensive guy, it blows me away how many arm tackles get broken against us. My thought being that while Tulloch leaving doesn’t help this one bit, had Tulloch stayed I think we’d be complaining about poor tackling again this year. In talking with my Dad and Brother and various fans I sit near at home games, everyone agrees that it almost seems we go for the ball and not the tackle. Considering we’ve had some pretty bad turnover ratios the last few years, it’s unacceptable to be missing tackles while trying to strip the ball. IF… and note that’s a big “if”… we were getting a turnover for every four or five missed tackles I might could stomach it. However, we’re not.

    We can only hope that (with or) without Tulloch something has been done to remedy the poor tackling we’ve seen the last few years.

    As far as offensive line goes, I can’t help but think we’re better off without Morris. Without having an inside look at the chemistry on the field, I just can’t help but believe Morris disrupted a unit that of all the positions on the field needs good chemistry. Of course we’ll find out sooner than later considering the projected starters given above.

    Barring injury I’m not terribly worried about the linebacker position. I bet either Davis is showing something OR… and the or is more likely… that the staff is giving Davis the start out of respect for all the many sacrifices he’s given to our program over the last few years. He deserves it, at least initially, whether he can tackle or not.

  3. VaWolf82 05/30/2006 at 1:50 PM #

    I had mentally ranked the different units into three categories:

    Concerned: OL, QB, and LB
    Questions: WR and DL
    Not concerned: DB and RB

    If Brooks sticks in school, then he will be a major force on the DL. I just hope that whatever issues existed have been favorably resolved.

    The coaches were very complimentary of Marcus Stone during spring practice, so some reason exists to hope that Stone’s passing skills are improving.

    I remain skeptical but hopeful. Only a few loons expect Burke to come in and jump ahead of Stone after fall practice. I predict that the same people screaming for Stone over Davis will be screaming for Burke/Greco/Evans soon into the season.

    A little surprised to see Andre Brown listed as #1 and Toney Baker as a clear #2

    I haven’t followed alot of the spring chatter, but this is the way last season ended, so I guess I’m not surprised by this. With the offensive philosophy unveiled last year during the USM game, there are plenty of snaps available for both RB’s.

  4. BJD95 05/30/2006 at 2:07 PM #

    The lack of quality depth is truly frightening.

  5. vtpackfan 05/30/2006 at 2:38 PM #

    I’m more curious on how they fill Davis at FB then how he does at his new position. It will take him two or three games plus the ACC opener (since the OCC games lack a true test) to feel comfortable at LB. If he stays healthy, and the DL gives them some consistentcy against the rush, then Davis will not be a liability on D. It may even make Chuck look pretty smart since I think you’ll be seeing him in the QB’s face alot with stunts and blitzs put in place to recapture the pressure that our front four created on their own last season. I’m looking for A.J. Davis to really step up this year early. He’s the one guy on Defense that I think has the potential to make some really big, momentum changing plays (that is to say if the score is still close) Lastly, you put special teams down at #7, and while I don’t think it should be up there at the top, the pressure is really going to be on them all year. Chuck’s teams have had great success on special teams in the past, especially blocking kicks/punts. We know that, the teams we play know it, but to the media it’s only Beamer Ball, or Reggie Bush types that do anything on special teams. It’s going to be critical for NC State to match or better the opposition on special teams in every game.

  6. RickJ 05/30/2006 at 2:43 PM #

    I feel very good about the defensive backs. The loss of Hudson is big but this position has the best depth on the team. Levin Neal, DaJuan Morgan & J.C. Neal are potential stars and none of them are starting. You don’t hear much at all about Miguel Scott but he was developing into a big time free safety before he got hurt last year.

    This leads me to an idea about linebacker – If nobody steps up, would the coaches consider moving Garland Heath to one of the linebacking positions? Amato likes to play a game with the coaches where he asked them to name the 11 best players on offense and defense. I know Heath would make this list but I think DaJuan Morgan might too. Moving Heath would get both on the field. For those that know more football than I – How much difference is there between a strong safety & either the Will or Sam linebacking positions?

    Regarding running backs – Everything I hear says we will be seeing a lot of Brown & Baker on the field at the same time. I know these 2 names would be on every coaches list of the best 11 players on offense.

  7. choppack1 05/30/2006 at 3:27 PM #

    Regarding surprises at QB – I’ve heard very good things about Greco.

    I’m more than a little bothered by our OL’s lack of development for the last couple of years. It’s pretty telling that next to Harris, I thought the best looking lineman was Crouch – who had only been exposed to a few months of coaching. This is surprising because UT put a ton of OLs in the league when Barry was the coach there. Of course, he was playing w/ plenty of talent.

  8. TPack 05/30/2006 at 4:43 PM #

    “I feel very good about the defensive backs. The loss of Hudson is big but this position has the best depth on the team.”

    I agree that NC State is very deep at DB, however I believe that Running Backs are deeper for us this year as well as last year.

    “How much difference is there between a strong safety & either the Will or Sam linebacking positions?”

    It varys among defense’s. Strong Safeties typically don’t blitz much, and deal with a lot more coverage. Your Ideal SS can play Will or Sam. Safeties have to be able to tackle, and cover. As do LBs in most defenses. In NC State’s defense, the SS is often called the Rover. This is basically a fast LB that knows how to cover. The transition between the two wouldn’t be hard if you were up to it, but that’s the thing, you gotta be up to it.

  9. redfred2 05/30/2006 at 6:07 PM #

    I know you are comparing talent in the various positions as a whole, but if the offensive line is your major concern, then wouldn’t any talent at the quarterback, running back, and receiver positions also be greatly diminished accordingly.

    Will Chuck A be able to coach an entire game on both sides of the ball, without having a strong defense to fall back on and carry him through major parts of any game. It is going to be interesting to see how well the staff handles this different set of circumstances.

  10. bTHEredterror 05/30/2006 at 8:29 PM #

    In addition to Tpack’s comments:

    Most strong safeties at college level where likely weakside linebackers in high school, forced to change due to size concerns at the college level, though Heath is big safety, he would be smallish for a linebacker, and would have to get used to taking on blocks as a linebacker that would never reach him in the secondary (where at worst he would deal with a TE or FB). As a blitzer he would be ideal due to his speed, but would likely be exploited by teams like BC and VT in the run game. He might be used in that position as a RB cover guy tho, and may free up the SS to play zone cover by taking the TE (usually the SS responsibility).

  11. bTHEredterror 05/30/2006 at 8:40 PM #

    I feel SFN is on point as usual, Though I am far more concerned with the Linebacker situation than with the O-line.

    There’s depth on the O-line, granted unproven depth, but at LB if anybody goes down, the whole season would be shot. Assuming Jones and Davis are improved by fall, the starting threesome should be competitive.

    Why this wasn’t addressed last year in recruiting is a red flag. You want a few young players to soak up from the talented guys we had last year. Chuck hasn’t had a balanced team since he’s been here, it’s all or nothing both sides of the ball (phillip era vs last couple of years of dominant D).

    I’m not concerned with Stone because he is proven to me, at least to be smart with the ball, and getting smarter. If the coaches are smart most of his passes should be of the backward, two-hand pitch variety.

  12. tamuro 05/30/2006 at 8:41 PM #

    Jeff, I agree 100% with your rankings. Just last week on PackPride, whenever the updated spring depth chart was released, I shared the same concerns around the LB’s and OL.

    1. How can your 4th string RB get moved over to defense for his senior season and immediately earn a starting position? How can a converted DE (Martin) win one of the other starting positions?
    2. How can none of your redshirt freshman OL sniff the starting lineup ahead of Holt or Newby? What about your JUCO transfers, where are they?

    This team is going to have to rely on its running game despite its OL and QB play. That is a lot to ask. It will also have to hope that Wright and Young can pressure the QB enough for the DB to be able to create turnovers, but looking at the LB’s, I am afraid that other teams will be able to run down our throats. Hopefully our DT’s can be stout enough against the run to force other teams to pass.

  13. bTHEredterror 05/30/2006 at 8:42 PM #

    Oh, And didn’t the “special teasm lose us two games last years with bad punt team play? I’m thinking certainly the VT game and probably the UNC game are different without bonehead return plays.

  14. redfred2 05/30/2006 at 9:17 PM #

    I hope Amato has a great season this or else we will be forced to give up every good thing that has happened since he arrived, just like some believe is the necessity for the basketball program. That would mean losing all the recruiting momentum and giving all the players away to keep a clear conscience. I don’t know if they would go so far as to tear down the new stadium in the name of “fairness” to every other school out there, but I wouldn’t doubt it.

  15. class of 74 05/31/2006 at 6:12 AM #

    Based on last season’s performance coupled with attrition and return factorsthe major concerns are:
    1. QB unless Stone has somehow been transformed this is a problem.
    2. OL is and has been a weakness throughout Amato’s tenure.
    3. LB can’t be as good when you lose a tackling machine like Tulloch.

    The other areas should be comparable, especially with Brooks’ return to the DL. But the offense must be able to score more than 21 points a game if a decent season is to be had.

  16. Jeff 05/31/2006 at 7:16 AM #

    These are AWESOME comments! Thanks to all of you for sharing such insightful thoughts. It looks to me that all of this adds up to an expected 6-6 season. Unlike some past years, I see 9-3 as being the cap on what we can put together for the year. In past years, I saw undefeated &/or 10-1 as real opportunities if everything came together for us.

  17. Mr O 05/31/2006 at 7:48 AM #

    bTheredterror: We were good on both sides of the ball during the Gator Bowl year.

    Unfortunately, the program has lost momentum and it will be tough to get it back. We look good in the secondary and at RB, but we have major questions marks and lack depth everywhere else.

  18. choppack1 05/31/2006 at 7:54 AM #

    Jeff – I agree. We really need to beat the Heels this year and post at least a .500 record in conference. This is the year to post that record too – we don’t play VaTech or Miami.

    I’m more than a little worried that Bunting may be figuring things out in Chapel Hill. Cignetti was an excellent hire – wonder why we didn’t go after him? (Trestman didn’t exactly set the world on fire last year. ) Sanders turned down the DC position at A&M. I know we shouldn’t necessarily worry about Carolina, but history has shown that it’s unlikely for both teams to be good at the same time and I’m more than a little worried about the results I’ve seen the last 2 years.

  19. Jeff 05/31/2006 at 9:59 AM #

    ^ I’d say the results of the last 3 years have been disappointing since 7-5 with Philip Rivers under center backfield (and some of those losses) were painful to handle.

    Unfortunately, the program has lost momentum and it will be tough to get it back. We look good in the secondary and at RB, but we have major questions marks and lack depth everywhere else.

    I’m not convinced that it is going to be as tough to get back some of that lost momentum. I really think that a foundation exists from which to grow. (Not saying that it is going to happen…but, it is not impossible. This year’s recruiting seems to be going pretty well.

    Now, close your eyes for a second and project to the 2007 season.

    Wow. that looks pretty good. We lose very few from this year’s team (T Tyler, L Harris are big ones) and seem to have some talented young guys growing the in wings (especially on OL). Not to mention (hopefully) a redshirted Justin Burke evolving at QB with our stable of stud RBs.

  20. Dan 05/31/2006 at 10:26 AM #

    ^ I totally agree with that perspective, and I’m more than willing to give Amato and Trestman at least three more years to show me they can get this done. That said, I do look for some marginal gains starting in ’07 like you said.

    I’m really anxious to see what QB Trestman is able to land for the ’07 class.

  21. choppack1 05/31/2006 at 10:56 AM #

    Well, I’m pretty excited about 2007 too, but remember this – A. Brown will be eligible for the draft. If he has the season he’s capable of having, he’s a first rounder (How many other RB’s have a 60+ yard TD run vs. FSU the last 10 years?)- so he’s gone. Now, that would still leave us TB – a stud and the other back, so we’re in good shape.

    We’ll see – I’m trying to keep myself grounded. The truth is, after the roller coaster of the last 3 years, I have no idea what to expect. We’ve seen a great offense and a Swiss Cheese D. We’ve seen a fantastic D and offense that could lose games almost by itself. Is this the year the good things come together or the year the bad things come together. Hopefully, the 2nd half of last year was a wake-up call as to what the team and the staff need to do to succeed.

  22. Dan 05/31/2006 at 12:13 PM #

    The RAWFS blog just blasted Amato, and only stopped short of recommending a coaching change if ’06 goes bad. Apparently, momentum is building in the Anti-Amato camp.

    Amato’s performance aside, what I do not understand is how anyone can recommend a coaching change while Lee Fowler is the AD. This cannot happen.

  23. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 05/31/2006 at 12:33 PM #

    Amato lost me when Rivers attempted the QB sneak twice. This was in OT against Ohio State I think- What a freaking nightmare. You have one of the best passers in NCAA history and one of the best running backs in NC State history in McClendon. So what do you do? Run the QB.

    I’m not a coach so (according to Sendek) I probably don’t have enough knowledge to make an ‘uneducated’ observation but I’ll give it a shot. You don’t run Phil Rivers unless everything else in the play has broken down and Rivers can’t get outside the tackles to throw it away. In other words, Rivers should of never been running the ball, ever.

    Jeff – this criticism is misplaced. TA McLendon was hurt and was not playing on those downs. The QB sneak call was made by Noel Redzone and then we learned that PR called one of them himself. McLendon could not jump (which is what is needed on the goal-line)…which was made obvious during the 4th down play where he did not get into the end zone. The staff has had a lot of severe miscalculations in the past…but, this particular instance @ OSU is not necessarily one of them.

    In that game, I actually think that you should criticize them for putting two freshman on their first ever kickoff return, which resulted in a fumble by Richard Washington and the ultimate game winning points by OSU

  24. BJD95 05/31/2006 at 12:43 PM #

    I partially agree with RAWFS and Dan. I think it is high time for Chuck to “crap or get off the pot” after 3 consecutive years of falling short of even REASONABLE expectations. However, I am certain that nothing WILL happen, since (i) the last thing Fowler wants to do is have another major coaching search; and (ii) there is no “Arizona State” to take Amato off our hands (too old and unaccomplished) – he’s ours until he retires or is fired. And like Dan says, Fowler would be in charge of the search, and thus the chances of it going well are slim to none.

    For those of you that care, Cardiff Giant and I are probably the most negative (of the SFN blogging team) re Amato at this point.

  25. Dan 05/31/2006 at 12:57 PM #

    Well, I have far less of an educated opinion on football than I do with basketball, but I’d really like the fans to allow Amato another two years of recruiting (’07 and ’08) to see what the Marc Trestman influence may be on the offense. I’m not saying that we have to wait through three more dismal years. I expect improvement, if only marginal, in ’07 and ’08. I dont really expect his year to be a bowl season though. I hope Im wrong.

    To me the biggest indictment of Amato was his inability, or reluctance, to go after nationally ranked dedicated OL. Prior to the ’05 class, he had only had a handful of such recruits over his entire tenure. I believe he came close to doubling his total in ’05. Mike Barry may have got a bad rap on his OL coaching abilities. I’m not sure he ever got the scholarship numbers he needed. In addition, he appears to have changed his recruiting strategy in an attempt to seal the border in NC and to get commits earlier in the season. However, the timing issue may be more a function of having a staff in place.

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