Falling Behind Carolina

We don’t link to The Robesonian very often. But, why not give the other set a bone or two? (You will know that things have gotten really bad here when we drive traffic toward’s the Asheville Citizen-Times; that is so bad that we won’t even hotlink the name of the newspaper here).

The Robesonian proclaims that “Wolfpack falling behind UNC in nearly everything”

The 2005-2006 school year may very well go down as the most frustrating in N.C. State sports history. In fact, the Wolfpack yearbook staff might as well save a page at the front of its sports section for a cover sheet titled “We Just Couldn’t Beat the Tar Heels … In Anything.â€?

The article goes on to highlight some selected results from major sports. The information is correct and can’t be debated. But, I guess this kind of analysis that was done for the 2004-2005 season would be too much to ask from a newspaper when meager little blogs can do that work for you.

(We are going to turn on the comments section of this entry in hopes that the members of our community can help us construct the kind of data for this athletics season like we built for last athletics season. We are not looking for people to argue; we are looking for relevant data to construct future entries.)

Obviously The Robesonian – just like all of the Wolfpack that all lived through significantly more competitive athletics performance in the decades before Lee Fowler came to Raleigh – just don’t “know sports” like Jed. NC State can’t be asked to compete with other schools until every little piece of the puzzle is complete. We have just got to have excuses and justifications for losing; nothing is a direct result of decisions that our “leaders” make or don’t make. Take a look at Lee Fowler’s comments in the February 16, 2004 edition of The Wolfpacker:

Question: What are your goals as an athletics director for the upcoming year, in terms of improving athletic programs and in improving facilities? How will those goals be measured? – Herb, Archdale, NC Class of 1987

Fowler: My goals are the same as when I came to NC State three years ago: we want to be top-25 program in all sports. I maintain that goal, and I feel it is very reachable. I think we are moving in that direction in most sports…

…We have to ask our coaches to take their programs toward those levels. But we also have to provide the facilities for them to at that level if we are going to demand those results. And I think that ‘t what we are doing.

By the end of ‘05, we will have most of our programs in the types of facilities that coaches can be held accountable to. I don’t think that was the case when I first got here. I think we had teams competing against people with a lot more assets than we had.�

How is it that other Athletics Directors at NC State and other schools find it appropriate to “hold accountable” the individual programs’ for performance before entering their sixth year at a school? How is it that NC State has produced the worst overall athletics performance in our history over the last six years as we simultaneously were improving our facilities and, according to Fowler, fixing all of the built-in excuses that we had at our disposal?

Whatever Fowler has been doing for the last six years, The Robesonian sums up the results quite nicely:

This state’s ACC schools, at one time, were thought of as The Big Four.

It appears N.C. State is dropping out – but at least it will have Wake Forest’s company.

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26 Responses to Falling Behind Carolina

  1. StewMan07 05/02/2006 at 9:01 AM #

    Well womens softball managed to have a darn good year in their second year and they don’t have any facilities yet. So I guess that makes the excuse about facilities kind of null and void. I’m sure facilities are great, but you can win without them all being perfect.

  2. Wolf-n-Atl 05/02/2006 at 9:05 AM #

    That really hurts. Mostly because it is the truth.

    The only sport I can talk about with some inside knowledge is swimming and in that sport we have been able to increase the talent we have as evident with Cullen Jones. Our swimming facilities are not on par with other school in the ACC (UNC, UVA, GT) but still better than some. Brooks Teal has done a decent job turning the program into a respectable team and with Cullen’s achievements we should be able to bring in some more talent to help close the gap with UNC.

    next sport…

  3. StateFans 05/02/2006 at 9:12 AM #

    How about direct competition with UNC this year?

    How about ACC Championships in different sports since Fowler’s arrival?

  4. cfpack03 05/02/2006 at 9:13 AM #

    Doesn’t look like you guys linked to the article…

    Anyway, I’d love for someone to do some research on the columnist. My prediction (a) UNC grad -> worked as bank teller -> dabbled in insurance -> finally using that journalism degree by landing the dream job at The Robesonian , or (b) NCSU & UNC admission denied -> communications degree from UNC-Pembroke -> worked as bank teller ->couldn’t break into insurance -> finally landed the dream job at The Robesonian .

  5. class of 74 05/02/2006 at 9:36 AM #

    O fer seasons usually get coaches in trouble. O fer year in all sports, with your main rival, should get this AD in hot water but not at good old NCSU. The program is in the black financially and that’s all that seems to matter. New facilities and making money isn’t that what college sports is all about?

  6. lakepacker70 05/02/2006 at 9:36 AM #

    What difference does it make where he went to school? I lived in Lumberton for a few years, read this piece of trash, and the real problem is that he is telling the truth. UNC has owned us this year, and for several years. Thank you Lee Fowler for all you have done.

  7. MadWolf92 05/02/2006 at 9:48 AM #

    Truth is great. Telling the truth only when it benefits you isn’t. That said, you can’t dispute these *one year* facts.

  8. BoKnowsNCS71 05/02/2006 at 9:57 AM #

    UNC has been our daddy — this pas year. Does that mean we won’t rebound? No. We’ve B^$(# slpped them in the past and we will do it again. That is sports.

  9. RickJ 05/02/2006 at 10:06 AM #

    2005/2006 ACC Champions


    Baseball –
    Basketball – Duke
    Cross Country – Virginia
    Football – Florida State
    Golf – North Carolina / Georgia Tech
    Lacrosse – Virginia
    Soccer – Duke
    Swimming – Virginia
    Tennis – Duke
    Track (Indoor) – Florida State
    Track (Outdoor) – Florida State
    Wrestling – North Carolina


    Basketball – North Carolina
    Cross Country – Duke
    Field Hockey – Maryland
    Golf – Duke
    Lacrosse – Virginia
    Rowing – Virginia
    Soccer – North Carolina
    Softball –
    Swimming – Maryland
    Tennis – Georgia Tech
    Track (Indoor) – Miami
    Track (Outdoor) – Miami
    Volleyball – North Carolina

    Total Championships:

    Boston College – 0
    Clemson – 0
    Duke – 5 (2 women)
    Florida State – 3
    Georgia Tech – 2 (1 women)
    Maryland – 2 (2 women)
    Miami – 2 (2 women)
    North Carolina – 5 (3 women)
    North Carolina State – 0
    Virginia – 5 (2 women)
    Virginia Tech – 0
    Wake Forest – 0

  10. highstick 05/02/2006 at 10:19 AM #

    Read my lips! LEE FOWLER!~

  11. cfpack03 05/02/2006 at 10:36 AM #

    Thanks, very insightful Rick.
    I wonder what the totals are over LF’s reign…

  12. VaBeach Pack 05/02/2006 at 10:54 AM #

    on a side note – we did have a national champion in Cullen Jones

  13. GoldenChain 05/02/2006 at 10:56 AM #

    The article points out a sore spot for the faithful that we’ve known for a while now; we simply aren’t competing the way we have historically, the way we can, the way we should, or the way we expect.
    I’m getting sick and tired of two things: 1) coaches that treat rival games like they’re not special 2) WalMart carolina fans who didn’t attend, aren’t in the booster’s club, and don’t buy tickets…..telling me how much my school (that I did go to, do support, and do by tickets to) sucks!
    I know some ‘powerful’ WP club members have posted here in the past and I have news for you guys: us rank-n-file members (27 years for me) aren’t too happy right now.

  14. wpack 05/02/2006 at 10:57 AM #

    Whether it is high school or college the athletic director determines the success of the schools overall athletic program. Take some responsibilty Leroy!

  15. cfpack03 05/02/2006 at 11:25 AM #

    Before all you talking heads pen your newest column and you flabbergasted 3rd party opinionaires click send on your newest email-argument, let me clarify. NC State fans don’t expect championships every single year in every single sport. We do expect to field competitive teams,
    make visible progress, and beat our arch rivals every few years.
    I feel we have achieved this in most sports. However (imo), our basketball program plateau’ ed and even receded the past couple years. And as avid (not rabid) fans, who watch every single game, many of us felt
    another coach could have achieved more with the same players and resources, which is why many expressed our opinions during the past few
    years. Herb did his best, (we do appreciate it), but Herb also realized his best is not good enough to take us to the next level. (He’ll probably do very well at ASU where simply making the NCAAT is good enough). Now we have a great opportunity to find the man who can take us to that next level, but it seems our AD is struggling with this responsibility, effectively turning it into a PR nightmare.
    We are not looking for someone to blame and execute b/c of this public embarrassment. We are looking for evidence of other errors and/or accolades in other sports, and match-ups against our arch rivals are a appropriate measurement.

  16. CarnifeX 05/02/2006 at 1:01 PM #

    Our facilities are outstanding, academically (Centennial Campus, all our land grant extension stuff) and athletically (been listed many-a-time) yet we still can’t catch a break, what gives?

  17. GAWolf 05/02/2006 at 1:26 PM #

    The Curse.

  18. GAWolf 05/02/2006 at 1:30 PM #

    The worst part about LF’s alleged accomplishments is that the only ones that could be seen as truly impressive are not truly of his doing. Bobby Purcell and the Wolfpack Club have done the work while LF takes… takes as opposed to gets… all the credit.

    He can’t fool me… has he fooled you?

  19. Heels Perspective 05/02/2006 at 1:31 PM #

    NC State is a great university and I hope to send my daughter there in 5 years (she wants to pursue Vet School). State’s athletic programs are really VERY successful and a rise in both football and basketball will come.

    Just look at my Tar Heels in 2001-2003. The “Robersonian” could have written an article “We coudn’t beat the Wolfpack in anything”….. Long term reasonable fans on both sides know the peaks and valley’s.

  20. RAWFS 05/02/2006 at 4:36 PM #

    GAWolf: No. He has not. The problem is that Lee Fowler, and therefore the Athletic Department, do not hold coaches accountable for wins and losses.

    I wonder, however, if GoldenChain has not underlined something: the rank and file expects and demands a high level of competitiveness and at the top, the “owners”* of our team (the Murphys, Dails, etc.) do not emphasize that as much.

    * I call them owners, because quite frankly, they are the decision makers. This is exactly like Peter Karmanos is with the Hurricanes or Dan Snyder with the Redskins. Wendell Murphy will have more effect on who it is that coaches NCSU men’s basketball than Oblinger and that’s a stone cold fact.

  21. bradncsu 05/02/2006 at 8:28 PM #

    This is so great! After 31 years of being a NCSU grad all UNC grads have called me is boss! Please let me know when they are “better” than us so I can fire them! Hire DUKE grads now (better unless a NCSU grad can be found) ! They are smarter! Well hell HS grads are smarter than unc grads! Thanks Brad NCSU75 ( HS= high school for you unc folks)

  22. redfred2 05/02/2006 at 10:05 PM #

    Committed to mentoring, Coach ???’s coaching techniques and teaching skills place him in great demand as a clinic speaker around the country. High school coaches flock to his clinics, and his summer camp for youngsters is always filled to capacity with a waiting list. ??? has long been active in the National Association of Basketball Coaches, serving in various capacities. He served a term as a trustee of the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame and was named an honorary member of Beta Gamma Sigma, the national business honor society. He has also lent his name to help support charitable and youth organizations.

    The works of ??? stretch far beyond the realm of his numerous achievements and highly recognized status on the hardcourt. In August, 2003, he was honored as the first inductee in The Vince Lombardi Titletown Legends. The honor and responsibility pays tribute to those individuals who possess the characteristics instilled by Vince Lombardi in all his players; Dedication, Teamwork, Respect, Love, Family, and Discipline.

    Any guesses?

  23. redfred2 05/02/2006 at 10:10 PM #

    More clues:

    Following the 2001-2002 season, Coach ??? was also named Coach of the Year by Basketball Times and The Dallas Morning News. Both the USBWA and the NABC also selected him as the Coach of the Year for their respective districts. ??? also received The Coach Clair Bee Award, which honors the Division One Men’s Basketball Coach who has made the most significant contribution to basketball during that season. Always the educator, Coach ??? takes immense pride in the graduation rate of his players. All but two of his four-year players completed degrees, a ratio of nearly 98 percent. Equally pleasing to ??? are the number of assistants and former players who have gone on to become successful head coaches – a list that numbers 9 active coaches entering the 2004-2005 season and 28 overall.

    Still don’t know?

  24. redfred2 05/02/2006 at 10:36 PM #

    Coach ??? has now taken his teams into post-season play a total of (((35))) times. Their (((EIGHT SEED))) in the (((2004)))((( NCAA Tournament))) marked the first time _____ teams have earned invitations to post-season play in three successive seasons in school history. The ____ defeated Charlotte 76-73 in Buffalo, New York, to become the first team to win an NCAA Tournament game since the 1976 team defeated Syracuse 69-56.

    The year 2004- Eight Seed NCAA- While coaching At _ _ X _ _ T_ _ _? The football school?

    Still think “washed up” is an appropriate description???

  25. redfred2 05/02/2006 at 10:41 PM #

    Pretty d*mned amazing stuff.

    Plain fact versus media hype?

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