What have Life Time Rights brought us?

I have been contemplating why we still have a coach few seem to want. I have decided the blame falls on Life Time Rights. What LTRs have done is remove the sole mouthpiece of the “common man”. If you do not buy the tickets you lose your ‘lifetime” rights and few, outside of the wealthy, can afford to throw away that large an investment forcing everyone to continue buying what they no longer want. And since the current AD dismisses any and all complaints with a “Go Pack” flourish, what the LTRs have done is create an oligopoly where only the big money donor’s opinions are given any credence. In the past a drop in ticket revenue would mean the people are unhappy. Now Fowler simply polls Herb’s buddies while ignoring the rampant pleas of the unwashed masses. I wish I had a solution to this mess but it appears that Fowler has effectively neutered 99% of the fan base.

About Rick

1992 and 2002 graduate from NCSU. Born and raised an NCSU fan. I remember the good ol' days and they weren't in the last 20 years.

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24 Responses to What have Life Time Rights brought us?

  1. Old13 03/20/2006 at 4:36 PM #

    I tend to agree. Wolfpack sports has been kidnapped! The only thing left is to give the minimum, leave the seats empty and encourage publicity that puts the Athletic Department “leadership” and school administration in a bad light because of it. Visions of student protests, walks on the tower, etc. come to mind (hopefully pecefully.) At least that could keep the pressure up.

  2. class of '74 03/20/2006 at 4:39 PM #

    Bingo! The only voice you have is through the WPC. Or no shows, or bags worn at home games. It’s truly a sick situation when you stop and think about it.

  3. Matt E. 03/20/2006 at 4:47 PM #

    I feel the same way but I only have football LTR’s. The only good thing is that at least I get to enjoy tailgating with my friends even if the football games have become completly boring to me.

    Least I got them early though because I about fell off the toilet while reading the wolfpacker when I saw how much my seats would cost now!

  4. GAWolf 03/20/2006 at 4:50 PM #

    Interestingly enough, my father “sacrificed” his WPC standing when he had had enough of Mike O’Cain. Enough fans did the same that year that the administration’s hands were tied and they had to fire O’Cain. Unfortunately, all of those who made the ultimate sacrifice like my father, lost their place in Carter Finley. We had family seats on the 40 yardline for as long as I could remember…. no longer. It’s not worth it to him now to try to get back to that point. Pretty pathetic that that’s how giving to the WPC diligently for 40 years as well as putting two kids through NC State is rewarded…

  5. rj 03/20/2006 at 5:07 PM #

    Face it, in the grand scheme of things, fans do not matter. Our “fandom” is irrational at best and people will continue to support institutions regardless of the program’s state because, simply put, “we always have”. The only way to show a lack of support is to stop being tickets, but as you have mentioned, with lifetime rights, the consequences of giving up tickets has made it such that you’ll have people that will continue to pay for their tickets but will have less enthusiasm, making it more likely we could have sellouts at RBC and Carter-Finley with the stadium or arena only half-full.

  6. Trout 03/20/2006 at 5:07 PM #

    Playing devils advocate: if you believe that LTRs are the blame for Herb Sendek still being at NC State, why isnt more outrage directed toward the WPC? Didnt the WPC create, market and sell LTRs? I realize that the season tickets themselves are the domain of the athletic department, but the LTR concept, the one that locks you into those seats, are the domain of the WPC, correct? I remember buying LTRs (Pride Campaign) at least 1 year before Lee Fowler became AD.

    I’m not saying you are not correct, because I do believe the LTR system does do one thing well in times of trouble – protect revenue, as you have stated above.

  7. Rick 03/20/2006 at 5:19 PM #

    That is a good point. Maybe the WPC club deserves more of the blame. There seems to be plenty to go around.

  8. zeke 03/20/2006 at 5:20 PM #


    Because the WPC is not as confrontational and argumentative as Lee Fowler. In some waysn Fooler is the WPC’s best friend. He yaps so much that he attracts all of the criticism and insulates the WPC from crticism.

  9. crpagpalp 03/20/2006 at 5:32 PM #

    One question: If fans who had LTR’s continued to purchase tickets so they could keep their seats and just didn’t show up what kind of impact, economic or otherwise, would that make? Right off I would think concessions would hurt and the obvious bad PR State would receive becuse of the empty stadium.

  10. graywolf 03/20/2006 at 5:42 PM #

    This is why i declined to purchase ltr’s and i will not do so. ltr’s are bad for the university because the little man has no say so and never ever will. What a great university sports program we had with Willis Casey at the helm and look at us today. Sad.

  11. BJD95 03/20/2006 at 6:01 PM #

    I suppose the WC (“Wolfpack” is one word, not two) is like the spouse who covers up for an alcoholic – i.e., Lee Fowler’s unwitting “enabler.”

    We need the 12-step program to begin immediately. And the WC needs to be part of the solution, not the problem (I know it can’t revoke the LTR program, but it can start diligently standing up and fighting for the wishes of its membership).

  12. formrwolffan 03/20/2006 at 6:02 PM #

    The University Engineering Dept, Alumni Assoc, etc. call me every year asking for donations. I used to give to all these too because I was “proud” to be a State alumnus and fan. I not nearly as proud due to the sorry state of the athletic dept. Lets face it, after we graduate and go to work, most of us realy don’t care about the academic depts, etc. All we really care about are the sports teams and we give money to the other areas because of our “pride” there. I have made it a point in the last few months to refuse to give and tell the caller why. The last call I got was from the engineering dept (last week), and I told the caller that I wasn’t giving any money to State until changes were made in the athletic dept. The caller told me that was what everyone was saying.

  13. site admin 03/20/2006 at 6:08 PM #

    zeke is the winner

  14. frustr8ed ncsu basketball fan 03/20/2006 at 6:11 PM #

    I can speak up for the little man not having any say-so. As a $120/year contributor, My rank is like 15,000 or something and the basketball tickets I am offered really suck. I don’t really want to buy season tickets as I am about a 2 hour drive to Raleigh. The LTR’s are rediculous. Plain and simple you must have some mad cash to get good seats at the RBC. I will not be renewing my membership this year in the WPC after this basketball season though. All I’m getting out of it is a subscription to the Wolfpacker which is way outdated by the time it arrives in the mailbox.

    Yeah I was gonna go to the BC game and try to get a ticket from someone(I’m sure plenty were available)LOL, but after the UNC thrashing i told my wife we were not going to be making that trip. I feel kind of wierd about ever trying to get a ticket to a game again with the thought that we could totally get blown out on any given night. It’s boring enough sittin at the casa and watching blow-outs.

  15. scott 03/20/2006 at 6:23 PM #

    My understanding is that, as long as you have paid or continue to pay for your b-ball LTRs & keep up your WPC level of giving, you don’t actually have to buy the season tickets every year. Please correct me if I’m wrong on that, but I don’t plan to buy my lower level tickets again as long as Herb’s still here. Perhaps Lee & Bobby would take note if ticket sales & attendance go down significantly.

  16. Cardiac95 03/20/2006 at 6:34 PM #

    LTR’s have neutered the fanbase at large. At this point, I’m beginning to question the sanity of paying my Wolfpack Club dues. We’re #51!!!!

  17. Jeff 03/20/2006 at 7:02 PM #

    My understanding is that, as long as you have paid or continue to pay for your b-ball LTRs & keep up your WPC level of giving, you don’t actually have to buy the season tickets every year. Please correct me if I’m wrong on that, but I don’t plan to buy my lower level tickets again as long as Herb’s still here.

    You are going to want to check on that. That is not the understanding that I, or any of my friends have.

  18. Clarksa 03/20/2006 at 8:01 PM #

    Thank you for not using the tired excuse of “I’m not getting a return on my investment.” Few people seem to realize the “return on your investment” for LTR’s is a guaranteed seat in C-F, the RBC, and Doak Field. Many people seem to think the “return on their investment” is championship calibur athletic programs. No booster club in the country would guarantee that.

  19. Kingfish 03/20/2006 at 8:37 PM #

    Misery since Fowl up has hijacked our program with mediocrity with Zendick. I don’t get b-ball tickets. I gave up on this “idiot” a long time ago. I get LTR’s for football.

    What would have to happen is 15,000 little guy LTR would have to quit. That is as likely as Zendick getting hired by someone else!

  20. Daniel 03/20/2006 at 9:06 PM #

    My wife and I just dropped our football LTRs after 2 1/2 years in. We never even considered basketball LTRs.

    We moved to Tennessee last spring and (aside from perhaps 1 game per year) cannot justify investing 100/month over 10 years for 3 tickets that we will not get use out of. We have a 15 month old son and our priorities have obviously changed.

    With all of that being said, I think LTRs are a horseshit thing to do to fans, particulary young alumni (we are both class of ’98). We fell for the scare tactic that if we didn’t get in now, we may never get season tickets. We were in a position that many of our friends and peers were not, in that we could actually fork over the money (it was tough, but we did it because we love Saturdays afternoons at Carter Finley). For others, they faithfully sent in their season ticket request each and every year, and like the flowers bloom they were denied.

    Given the fact that our 2 main sports arenas are 5 miles from campus, NC State will always struggle to maintain a bond with alumni who only occasionally return to Raleigh, and usually that being for a game at said arena(s). There are no “ties that bind” (forgive the Kuralt line) us to our “campus community” once we step foot off the graduation stage. That is sad, but very real and it will make things such as fundraising, endowments, etc all the more difficult to undertake.

    Which leads me to my point that athletics represents a paramount importance, indeed, critical service to keeping alumni connected to our school.

    We dropped our LTRs, but I now believe that if and when we return to live in Raleigh, season tickets will be available to those who want them, because I have resigned myself to the fact that we will forever remain mired in mediocrity, and we have seen the pinnacle of fan interest for football (and basketball for that matter) from 00-03.

  21. Daniel 03/20/2006 at 9:07 PM #

    BTW, thank you Lee Fowler

  22. WolfInVolCountry 03/20/2006 at 9:34 PM #

    I have never had LTRs, but I was like fomerwolf in that I gave to PAMS. I refused this year because it was the only way I could show my dissatisfaction with the athletic program. I felt badly and hated to link academics to athletics in this way, but it was the only way I could send the message.

    Interestingly enough, the solicitor also told me that many were reducing gifts due to the way athletics was run…. especially basketball.

  23. MurphNCSU 03/21/2006 at 1:49 AM #

    I can’t afford LTR having just graduated, but if I could I would be hand delivering my dues and seasson ticket money and letting the WC know that I will not be using my tickets as long as Herb is coach, but I will be watching to make sure my seats aren’t filled with sympathizers.

    I really think thought that you have to get the students energized in this fight. They will go to games, because that is what you do when you are a student at NCSU. I graduated last year and attended as many games as my student fees would afford even though I wanted Herb gone since 2000. The students will attend games and have the power to make a powerful statement, but have little to no resources to do such. We need a organized campaign to enlighten the Student Body and help them with resources, signs, shirts, etc.

    At one point this year I was ready to print up handbills which simply stated Herb’s stats and asked if fans thought this is what NCSU deserves and put them on every car parker outside the ESA. Imagine the effect this might have had after that whoopin’ we got from UNC. Time to organize!!!! Fight the power!!!!!!

  24. Rick 03/21/2006 at 9:12 AM #

    “Thank you for not using the tired excuse of “I’m not getting a return on my investment.â€?”

    I do not consider sports an investment. They are a form of entertainment, or at least they are supposed to be.

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