RPI @ The Turn

General NCS Basketball17

State’s win over Virginia moved the Pack up to #25 in the RPI this morning.

The current ACC schools look like the following:

(#1) Duke
(#24) Maryland
(#25) North Carolina St

(#30) Boston College
(#36) UNC-CH
(#59) Miami-Florida

(#60) Virginia
(#61) Clemson
(#85) Florida St
(#104) Wake Forest
(#120) Virginia Tech
(#134) Georgia Tech

If you don’t believe that the ACC is “down” this year, then you are probably someone who just loves to argue or someone that loses all ability to think rationally if you see the name “JB34”. I direct you to exhibit #927, a look at the RPI of the ACC last year at the half-way mark in the conference. Check this out:

(#2) Wake Forest
(#3) Boston College (not included in the conversation for consistency between years)
(#7) Duke
(#8) North Carolina
(#33) Maryland
(#35) Georgia Tech
(#49) Virginia
(#61) Miami
(#73) Clemson
(#111) Florida State
(#117) NC State
(#133) Virginia Tech

Quick Observations:

* No teams have experienced a greater role reversal than NC State and Wake Forest. Wow. Talk about the impact of a single player (Chris Paul @ Wake Forest). I love it when people don’t understand how much ‘easier’ it is to build a successful basketball program than football program in a short span of time.

* Last year, the ACC had three Top 10 teams (and BC would have been four). This year, the ACC has one.

* Last year, the ACC had seven teams in the Top 50 (and BC would have been eight). This year, the ACC has five (including BC).

It’s not a big deal, really. Just interesting numbers.

General NCS Basketball

17 Responses to RPI @ The Turn

  1. Mr. O 02/02/2006 at 8:33 AM #

    Your contributions here are great.

    It is easier to turn around a program for 3-4 year based on a couple of players. I think it gets difficult though building a program for real long-term success. Prosser may have missed his window of opportunity.

  2. class of '74 02/02/2006 at 9:23 AM #

    ^agree. Point guards are so vital to a program’s success. It makes you question why has it taken us so long if you see such dramatic changes in just one season? Something to think about!

  3. Mr. O 02/02/2006 at 10:07 AM #

    It took Herb 6 years. Definitely too long, but he was a young coach. A quality freshman class and two sr. guards turned it around for Herb. The point I was getting at is that a recruiting class can set you up for a good 2-4 year run, but after you lose that class or those couple of players from a two different classes that turned it around for your program (like Paul, Gray and Williams at Wake), then it gets tough.

    Skip didn’t have his program ready to lose Paul. Now he faces losing Gray and Williams from a team that is currently last place in the ACC. Paul Hewitt at Tech should start to turn it around again next year, but Tech is currently 11th in ACC.

    On the other hand, Herb was able to lose J. Powell two years ago and then Hodge last year and still be successful. Julius Hodge was so important to our program that I thought this year was going to be a real test for our program. If Herb can turn in his best year at NC State, then I think that is a pretty good sign for the long-term consistency of our program.

    People get so excited over quick turn-arounds that I think they lose sight of what we should really be looking to build – a consistent winner.

  4. WTNY 02/02/2006 at 10:52 AM #

    “People get so excited over quick turn-arounds that I think they lose sight of what we should really be looking to build – a consistent winner.”

    I agree 100% with that statement. I was looking at thesabre.com’s bball message board last night. UVA fans are excited as they should be. But I couldn’t help but get chuckles out of so many “Leitao is the MAN!” posts. It wasn’t that long ago that they were bellowing, “Gillen is the MAN!” Go ahead and sign Leitao to a 10 year contract now! 😉

  5. Jeff 02/02/2006 at 11:01 AM #

    I don’t understand the basis for the belief that you can’t win quickly and be a consistent winner.

    I don’t understand the basis for the belief that if you build slowly it will “last longer”.

    While it “sounds good”…it is ridiculous. And, it applies a significant discount to the “peak” performances that might be achieved in the “good years”. I’d gladly take a Top 5 season and Final Four appearance in a “flash in the pan” season to offset a season or two that isn’t as “consistent” as long as I have reason to believe that the future is bright.

    I think that these baseless theories are some of the most ridiculously stupid generally accepted presumptions in the history of sports.

  6. VaWolf82 02/02/2006 at 11:09 AM #

    they lose sight of what we should really be looking to build – a consistent winner.

    Refresh my memory….what has State consistently won? Here’s what I remember from the last four years (on average):
    – 9 ACC wins
    – Thurs and Friday wins in the ACCT
    – Opening round wins in NCAAT

    Alot better than alot of teams….but to me its just “stuck on pretty good”.

    I would rather be occasionally great, than just consistently good.

  7. Jeff 02/02/2006 at 12:08 PM #

    ^ Yea…i was going to go there, but I didn’t.

    Evidently, tou have to assume an Elite 8 appearance this year to magically create this “consistent WINNER” that nobody knew existed.

    We’ve had ONE ACC Torunament seed better than 4th in Herb’s decade and we have somehow become a consistent WINNER.

  8. class of '74 02/02/2006 at 12:42 PM #

    You only have to look at history to see what makes Wolfpackers happy. ACC tournament titles, sweet sixteen appearences, elite eight appearences, NCAA Regional champs, NCAA champs.

    As for this year, I’d be satisfied with an ACC title or sweet sixteen appearence. Anything more is more than I expect at this time from what I’ve seen so far.

  9. Mr. O 02/02/2006 at 5:39 PM #

    “I don’t understand the basis for the belief that you can’t win quickly and be a consistent winner.

    I don’t understand the basis for the belief that if you build slowly it will “last longerâ€?.”

    You can build it quickly and be a consistent winner. But you are a perfect example of someone who gets all excited about guys like Hewitt and Prosser so early in their tenures. They now have two of the worst teams in the ACC.

    I also don’t see anyone on here who has stated that if you build it slower then it will last longer. I do believe that if you have to recruit well consistently to be a consistent winner. Something that Prosser and Hewitt have struggled with.

  10. Mr. O 02/02/2006 at 5:46 PM #

    Vawolf: Why do you keep leaving out Herb’s 2-2 record on Saturday in the ACC tournament over the last 4 years? Also, you left out Herb’s win in the 2nd round last year. We have only played on Thursday one time in the last 4 ACC tournament by the way.

    I would rather be consistently good and occasionally great. Crap years don’t interest me much. Wake’s entire future is in jeopardy right now. I don’t envy their position.

  11. VaWolf82 02/02/2006 at 6:58 PM #

    Why do you keep leaving out Herb’s 2-2 record on Saturday in the ACC tournament over the last 4 years

    Who says I forgot about them? They just are not significant when listing major accomplishments of a coach…or if you are talking about “consistent winning” (which is what you said about Herb and State). Do you think that 2-2 on Sat constitutes “consistent winning”?

    I feel my eyes roll every time someone starts quoting the ACCT winning percentage. Here’s the breakdown by day:

    Thurs…..3-0
    Fri………7-2
    Sat……..3-4
    Sun…….0-3

    So the large majority of Herb’s ACCT wins came on Thurs or Friday….which sounds like “consistent wins” to me. Don’t get me wrong…winning is always better than winning. But it takes more to qualify as a great tourney coach….or a stat that is worth discussing.

  12. VaWolf82 02/02/2006 at 6:59 PM #

    We definitely got to find an edit button.

    …..winning is always better than losing…..

  13. Mr. O 02/03/2006 at 9:47 AM #

    “Refresh my memory….what has State consistently won? Here’s what I remember from the last four years (on average):
    – 9 ACC wins
    – Thurs and Friday wins in the ACCT
    – Opening round wins in NCAAT”

    I don’t see how you can’t remember Herb being 2-2 on Saturday if you can remember 1 single Thursday win over the last 4 years. Also, I don’t see how you can forget the win against UConn last year in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament since it was the program’s biggest win in over a decade and a half.

    You essentially selected your stats to downplay our last 4 seasons and left out 3 of Herb’s biggest tournament wins. You also left out a “peak” ACC season of 68.75% which Valvano and Sloan only bettered twice.

    But I do agree on the edit button. 🙂

  14. VaWolf82 02/03/2006 at 10:16 AM #

    You essentially selected your stats to downplay our last 4 seasons and left out 3 of Herb’s biggest tournament wins.

    You mentioned something about a consistent winner….so I asked what has State CONSISTENTLY won…..I “averaged” when I could and chose “majority” as “consistent” for things that don’t average. If we’re left with choosing how to define 2-2 on Sat…then all that does is illustrate that
    Herb has very few significant achievements to discuss.

    If you want to talk about “high” points, then that’s a different discussion all together.

    Mr.O….I sent you an EZIM on PP…would you take a brief moment to respond?

  15. Mr. O 02/03/2006 at 12:25 PM #

    Vawolf82: Here is what I said:

    “People get so excited over quick turn-arounds that I think they lose sight of what we should really be looking to build – a consistent winner.”

    I didn’t say State has consistently won anything. I stated that my goal was to be a consistent winner relative to pumping up the Gillen’s, Hewitt’s, Pender’s and Prosser’s of the world who don’t have consistently winning programs. Very often these types of coaches are used as examples of why Herb Sendek shouldn’t be our coach.

    It will be interesting to compare the ACC win totals, ACC tourney success and NCAA tourney success of the last 5 years of Hewitt, Prosser and Herb after this season is finished.

  16. VaWolf82 02/03/2006 at 1:41 PM #

    “they lose sight of what we should really be looking to build – a consistent winner.â€?

    I don’t think that Sendek can consistently compete with K and Roy…even though I would love for him to prove me wrong. I don’t know what you consider a consistent winner to be.

    As Gary and even Hewitt have proven….you don’t have to be consistent to be ocassionally great. I would rather be occasionally great rather than just stuck on pretty good. I can handle 7-9 to 9-7 seasons “on average” if something great is accomplished every three to four years.

    In short, its time (past time) to move beyond “pretty good”.

  17. class of '74 02/03/2006 at 2:13 PM #

    ^I agree let’s hang some banners every 4 years as opposed to 3rd or 4th place ACC finishes and 2nd round ko’s in the NCAAT year after year. But this is the result of the Monteith/Turner times. Our fans are just relieved to make the NCAAT and avoid the Les invitational round.

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