Taking Grinding to a Whole New Level

Two of our authors were writing simultaneoulsy loggin similar entries about last night’s loss to Iowa, so we have put them together here.

BJD:
On a late field goal, Kirk Ferentz’ Iowa Hawkeyes edged out the visiting NC State Wolfpack 45-42, in a high-scoing gridiron affair…wait a minute, wrong sport. A 45-42 BASKETBALL game? In the 21st century? Yes, it really happened.

I will nominate this contest as perhaps the ugliest game ever between two ranked teams (as the announcers pointed out, neither squad played like a ranked team). It was fitting that the game ended with an airball from NC State, a familiar ending to anybody who follows the Pack closely.

Still, there were a few positives. Cedric Simmons was a dominating force in the low post, especially on defense. He’s a good passer, too. IMHO, he has the chance to be NC State’s best low-post player in about 30 years (yes, better than Fuller, Shack, and Washburn – Bailey is a tougher call). To his credit, Sendek did seem to run plays for him to operate like a traditional low-post offensive threat (which is why we broke the 30 mark). And we all know that Sendek’s teams often look horrible in November/December. Basketball is still a tournament sport, and this one game really did nothing to hurt our tournament standing.

But damn, was it ever ugly to watch.

Jeff
I was going to apologize for falling asleep in the middle of this ‘big’ game…but, when I turned on ESPN this morning and heard them describe State’s 42-45 loss to Iowa as an “ugly game” I didn’t feel the need. Every time that I started to dose, I would flip over to Duke @ Indiana and get refreshed with high-level play and excitement.

(You know…Indiana…whose coach played one of the toughest OOC schedule’s in the country last year despite the fact that his job was on the line because the Hoosiers missed the NCAA Tournament the previous year? Oh…to have standards)

* The N&O described the game as “sloppy”.

* Iowa announced attendance less than 13,100 for the Big 10 Challenge and for the ranked Wolfpack. Surely, NC State’s criticize your own fan suppot brigade will find a way to criticize the Hawkeyes for only 13k fans?

* The beginning of the game reminded me of the egg that NC State laid at Michigan just two years ago. (See a pattern?) But, after five minutes on Wednesday night…State’s horrible performance translated into bad performance by Iowa, so the loss didn’t ultimately look as bad.

* Congratulations to the Wolfpack women for their big win last night and to the ACC for winning our seventh ACC-Big Ten Challenge. The ACC has won EVERY Challenge ever played with the Big Ten. (I really thought that this was going to be a year that the Big Ten finally got on the board).

* What is the purpose of recruiting McDonald’s All-Americans if they aren’t even good enough to get into a game where the guys on the court are obviously playing of their worst games of the season?

“This was an ugly game”

-ESPN Sportscenter

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

General NCS Basketball

58 Responses to Taking Grinding to a Whole New Level

  1. Mr. O 12/01/2005 at 7:52 AM #

    It was ugly. Cedric Simmons was unbelievable. Hopefully that is as bad as we can play. If we play slightly better, then we win the game.

  2. Mr. O 12/01/2005 at 7:56 AM #

    One other thing, did anyone else hear Majerus refer to coach Sendek as “Herbie” in the first half last night?

  3. Jeff 12/01/2005 at 7:59 AM #

    “If we play slightly better, then we win the game.”

    I’ve heard that for 10 years.

  4. Mike 12/01/2005 at 8:14 AM #

    UGLY UGLY UGLY! Defense played well though. Was happy to see Davis and Stone in the lineup last night – had to be them. Our passes kept getting intercepted by the other team.

    What I want to know, and all of you research experts probably know this already. Last night, as poorly as we played, down 3 wiht the ball, AND WE CANNOT GET OFF A SHOT TO TIE. How many times has this happened in the last few years? I can think of at least 5 occasions in the last few years where we dont get off a shot to tie or win in the final seconds. I think even the Vandy NCAA game a couple years ago we had the same thing. I remember calling a time out to set up a play and not getting off a shot. I remember not calling a time out and letting the boys play and not getting off a shot. Call me a pessimist, call me a bad fan…….but I was watching last night and I said out loud, “Watch, we will not get a shot off to tie”. Why did I say this? It is a pattern that happens several times a year. Sure enough, I rest my case.

    Finally, I agree with the McD’s AA’s? Where are they? We obviously weren’t getting it done wiht the guys on the floor. Where were the recruits? They could not have done any worse, give them a shot. CS was a man inside and Brackman is a scrapper but 42 points is ridiculous.

  5. Trout 12/01/2005 at 8:40 AM #

    U-G-L-Y

    Positives: Big Ced. We had 24 turnovers, shot poorly, on the road and still almost won against the #14 team in the land.

    Negatives: 24 turnovers, poor shooting and a loss.

    Herb got hosed on the TO call. The replays clearly show him calling a TO with 3.9 seconds left. Not saying we would have drawn up a play to get the 3, but not giving us the TO was bullshit. They let players grab loose balls going out of bounds at 90 miles an hour get TOs, but not our coach.

    The quick early fouls on Engin really hurt. I thought he was taken out of the game mentally, early, and IMO he is the engine of the team.

    24 turnovers is just not a typical NC State performance under Herb Sendek. You can criticize alot of things about Herb’s tenure at NC State, but we almost always protect the ball. Not last night. We have had poor shooting nights, but I cant remember a TO stat like that.

    Last night was the first game where the team missed Hodge. I didnt see a guy wanting the ball in his hands at the end of the game. We ended up taking a shot similiar to what we took in the Vandy game, when Hodge had fouled out.

    “Just like my dad said, they were just three points uglier than we were,” Iowa coach Steve Alford said. – that sums it up for me

  6. Class of '74 12/01/2005 at 8:45 AM #

    We have had more ugly games with this “system” than the law of averages should allow. It was the only antedote to my tempurpedic that I’ve found in two years! I tossed and turned for two hours following that miserable display.

    My biggest beef is how we continually blow final second situations in close games. Why not take a quick two on a drive if they jump the three like they did last night and then foul on the inbound?

  7. Mike 12/01/2005 at 9:08 AM #

    Cant agree more Class74. Take the 2, who knows maybe they will foul as well. But to not get a shot. Even if we had the TO at 3.9 secs there is no guarantee we would have had a better shot. History shows that. The system is the system and we have to live with it. Someone wrote a couple days ago about the system, works fine during the game, but what happens at the end when we need a quick 3? Whoever wrote that, right on. We always blow the last shot in close games. While coaching can teach a system, coaching can also teach how to handle late game situations. If you blow it once, I can point the finger at many things and write it off as a one time deal, something to learn from. When you do it constantly, I blame the coaches for not preparing the players. Obvious we have not learned anything over the years.

  8. BJD95 12/01/2005 at 9:18 AM #

    Trout – thanks for clearing that up. I (and the announcers) thought he was screaming about a foul on Evtimov’s three (and there clearly was no foul). If so, good recognition by Sendek that we were getting ready to pull our typical desperate heave routine once again.

    The real question is – did we make Iowa struggle like that, or are they really just not a very good team (despite the good win against Kentucky)? The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

    I think Iowa might still have been in the 1-and-1, in which case a quick 2 gives you a realistic chance to WIN, not just force overtime.

  9. Rick 12/01/2005 at 9:44 AM #

    Can you imagine potential recruits sitting at home pining away about wanting to play in this system?
    It was an ugly game but unfortunately typical of Sendek coached teams.
    We must have the worst end of game management in college basketball.

  10. Jim 12/01/2005 at 10:03 AM #

    It’s like a broken record with this guy (Sendek) — Same S*#@, Different Season.

    Ced was, however, AWESOME!

  11. Rick 12/01/2005 at 11:12 AM #

    Same Sendek, Different Day

  12. J.R. 12/01/2005 at 12:23 PM #

    There has to be a point where everyone stops blaming Herb. It’s not his fault that the team couldn’t shoot worth a lick last night. If Evtimov shoots just a little better, we win this game by 5. Yes the system is ugly, but guys got open looks all night and just couldn’t hit them. 24 turnovers ain’t Herb’s fault either, that’s just bad basketball. Couple quick pts: Why do I keep waking up in cold sweats that Cedric Simmons will go pro after this season? Also, Ced only took 8 shots compared to the 16-17 3 pters we jacked up, not too smart. It’s like football, we have great RBs so we decide to be a passing squad. You guys are right, where the hell was B. Costner last night? No minutes for an AA, nice! Why did the refs let this turn into a rugby match, the defense on both sides was good enough without turning it into a no-holds barred event.

  13. Jeff 12/01/2005 at 12:44 PM #

    Nothing is Herb’s FAULT. Everything in the basketball program is his RESPONSIBILITY.

    “The quick early fouls on Engin really hurt. I thought he was taken out of the game mentally, early, and IMO he is the engine of the team. “

    Trout, I totally agree with this observation. I thought about it when he got his first stupid foul of unnecessarily reaching in.

    But, I do NOT accept this an an acceptable situation for us. How do we have so many ‘interchangeable parts’ and broad talent and get into a situation where we can’t function without a junior from Turkey on the floor?

    Seriously…what the F* happened to Tony “The Answer” Bethel? Listening to the HSSS and excuse-crowd last year, Tony was the missing link from a national championship. We were all told how much better that we were going to be with old TB. How does Atsur mean so much to us when we have Bethel, Grant, and Bennerman playing the same position? Courtney Fells?

  14. Mr. O 12/01/2005 at 1:08 PM #

    I can’t figure out jumping off the deep end over a November loss to a top 15 team on their homecourt by 3 points.

    If we had played well and Iowa played terrible and we still lost, then maybe. But we played horrible last night and still almost beat a top 15 team on their homecourt.

  15. Jim 12/01/2005 at 1:18 PM #

    If “if’s and buts were candy and nuts…….”

    Stop making excuses for the guy. His system does not work. We should have wiped the floor with Iowa last night — regardles of where we played. Jeff, I agree with you and JR, did you contradict yourself, or were you just being facetious?

  16. Mr. O 12/01/2005 at 1:21 PM #

    Jim: What do you base your statement on that we should have wiped the floor with Iowa? They did just beat UK.

  17. BJD95 12/01/2005 at 1:46 PM #

    I think he means the way they played last night. They committed sloppy, unforced turnovers, and couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean. In order words, they played alot like us.

    I would imagine that both teams are likely going to be fringe Top 25 material this season, but capable of playing better (and worse) periodically. Generally, I like our upside more because of Big Ced and Brackman’s considerable upside. But it’s up to Herb Sendek to tap into that potential. Can he do it? We’ll see.

  18. Mr. O 12/01/2005 at 1:50 PM #

    I like our upside also. That is why I am not particularly worried. We have a lot of talented players that have shown they can play a lot better than last night. If we were relying on guys who have never played well at NC State, then I would definitely be worried.

  19. Jeff 12/01/2005 at 2:24 PM #

    ^ Upside? Is that this year? Or is that over the “long term” view of the program that is now the new buzz amongst Fowler and the HSSS crew to deflect focus from their lack of results?

    MrO, I very much appreciate and understand your perspective. In looking at THIS SEASON in a vacuum, I understand your feeling that there is really not much to be too worried about. I totally agree with that.

    But, I think the conversation is being had by many of us on a different, more broad level that is related to the program on the whole.

    You asked “should we have wiped the floor with Iowa? They did just beat UK.”

    What if I said YES?

    Why is it so crazy to say….”YES…at SOME POINT we most definitely SHOULD at least be able to beat a team like this.”

    As you put it…they just beat Kentucky. Do you think that they asked themselves if they were supposed to beat Kentucky? No…this is their best team in a long while and their chance to step up and win these types of games. WHEN will it be NC State’s year? Because…despite the delusions of the HSSSers…we are STILL WAITING to beat good teams out of the conference.

    Away from the RBC, our “great four years” has generated a single win against a ranked team. Shit, Iowa has already done that in the first couple of weeks of this season. We haven’t beaten an NCAA Tournament team outside of the RBC in a regular season during our “great run”.

    WHY does that level of performance over a 10 year period not bother you?

  20. Gary 12/01/2005 at 2:31 PM #

    Emailed with a Tarheel friend today and shared that I enjoyed watching them play the other night. Got some comments back that created no reason for me to share anything original

    “Heels have been fun to watch, though they have such a razor thin margin to be even a bubble team, it will get a bit nerve wracking as the season wears along. I wish I could say that State has been fun to watch, but I had to give up after about 8 or 9 minutes of the Iowa game for fear it would turn me against college basketball. One of the ugliest games I have ever seen, to be honest, especially for a game between two ranked teams.”

    What do they know about basketball, anyway.

  21. Trout 12/01/2005 at 2:33 PM #

    ^ I guess you mean OOC NCAA Tournament teams?

    Serious question, because we know each other. Why is the term HSSS needed?

  22. Jeff 12/01/2005 at 2:39 PM #

    Serious answer….same reason people say GOP instead of typine out Grand Old Party. — Because it effectively describes and communicates both a complicated perspective AND/or a group of others with only 4 keystrokes. Can’t get much better than that.

  23. Mr. O 12/01/2005 at 2:41 PM #

    Because the level of performance of the last 4 years doesn’t bother me to the point of wanting Herb Sendek fired. He has done well enough that 1 single loss THIS season in Nov. against a top 15 team on their homecourt isn’t much concern to me.

    The ACC season, ACC tournament and NCAA tournament are much more important to how I measure the success of our basketball coach. In my mind, Herb earned this season over the last four years. So I am going to give it to him without having a referendum on his status as our coach after every single loss this year.

  24. John 12/01/2005 at 2:44 PM #

    Am I the only one that thinks Grant is a turnover waiting to happen? I was screaming at that guy the whole game. I told my wife that I predict he has 2 carrying calls/game and 1.5 charges/game. I know he is athletic but I don’t think he moves well without the basketball in his hands. I don’t want to even get started on the fact that he is probably the biggest ball hog I have seen at the Chavis league in 7 years of going. For us to be good, Bethel and Bennerman need to play well IMHO.

  25. Trout 12/01/2005 at 2:50 PM #

    Fair enough. However, IMO, it also portrays this “independent voice on the NC State athletics community” as having a definite agenda. Is that the objective?

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