Quote: Basketball Passion

From Fayetteville Observer’s NC State Basketball Preview:

As hard as it is to believe now, especially for anyone born since 1983, N.C. State was once the program UNC and Duke wanted to pattern themselves after, instead of the other way around.

The Wolfpack won two national championships and enjoyed an undefeated season during a glorious 10-year stretch between 1973-83.

Though the foundation of the Wolfpack’s success was top-shelf coaching and talent, its trademark during the championship era was the passion that flowed from the floor to the stands at the old Reynolds Coliseum.

It’s an emotion that ultimately got out of control and helped lead to the downfall of popular coach Jim Valvano and period of NCAA probation from which State has never fully recovered.

That passion still burns just as hot in the fans that long for a return to the good old days.

But can too much passion, especially where it pertains to low-key coach Herb Sendek, be holding such a renaissance back? And how will this year’s team compensate for the loss of its most passionate member, former ACC Player of the Year Julius Hodge?

At least the first half of the quote was accurate.

But, “can too much passion…be holding such a renaissance back”.

I can’t even figure out what that means. Is this a joke?

General NCS Basketball Quotes of Note Tradition

42 Responses to Quote: Basketball Passion

  1. Trout 11/16/2005 at 10:46 AM #

    “Ranked #30 over the 4 years = #6 in the ACC over that time period”

    ACC finishes over the past 4 years:

    2002 – tied for 3rd (4th seed)
    2003 – 4th
    2004 – 2nd
    2005 – 7th

    How does that equal #6 in the ACC over that time period?

  2. Jeff 11/16/2005 at 11:05 AM #

    ^ How? Because you are carving away everything OTHER than ACC finishes to make your point. Over that period of time Duke, Carolina, and Maryland have all won ACC titles AND NATIONAL TITLES. Georgia Tech has played in a national championship game and been a mainstay in the Top 10 for more time than Herb has achieved Top 25 rankings in a decade. Additionally, Wake has won 1 (or 2?) ACC Regular Season Titles, has a winning record against us, and has also managed to be ranked in the Top 10 more weeks than Herb has achieved Top 25 rankings in a decade.

    That is how we are easily the 6th best program in the ACC over the last 4 to 5 years.

  3. Trout 11/16/2005 at 11:23 AM #

    ^ Point taken. I’m done.

  4. Mr. O 11/16/2005 at 11:29 AM #

    Duke, UNC, Maryland and Wake have been better than us. Maryland has been fading since the Nat. Title and Wake is in the process of fading at least temporarily.

    However, GT is certainly arguable. They have the Final Four and that is about it. Head-to-head, ACC record, NCAA appearances, ACC tourney success all way heavily in Herb’s favor.

    Also, I think you have to take future outlook into account when evaluating programs. Herb has recruited each of these programs the last two years by a wide margin.

  5. Jeff 11/16/2005 at 11:38 AM #

    ^ I would agree with your perspectives of those programs. GT is definitely arguable. I don’t think that “projecting” into the future has any bearing on the analysis…Herb had out recruited these programs BEFORE and they generated the very results that put them ahead of us. The seniors on last year’s team were the #3 recruiting class in the country and were “projected” to be a Top 15 type team last year. We didn’t achieve anything close to that.

  6. Mr. O 11/16/2005 at 11:51 AM #

    Again, it is arguable that Herb out-recruited Maryland, GT or Wake Forest over the last 4 years.

    Each of those schools had similar top classes to ours. Gary Williams had the best class of his career after he won the title. Prosser signed 3 all-ACC players in the last few years(Paul, Gray, and E. Williams). GT signed Jarrett Jack and Chris Bosh in the same year.

    IMO, a Sweet 16 is certainly a result that a top 15 type of team would produce. The regular season was a struggle, but we all know that college basketball is about the post-season. When we finished 16th in the Sagarin the year before and 2nd in the ACC, we were disappointed that we didn’t advance past Vandy.

    It was interesting seeing a quote from the new UVa coach. He said something like being 4th or 5th in the ACC means you have a shot to win the national title.

  7. Jeff 11/16/2005 at 12:04 PM #

    ^ In any REGULAR year, he is correct. As we discussed before, this is not a regular year.

  8. packbackers 11/16/2005 at 1:18 PM #

    Mr. O, you bring up some excellent points that get right down to the heart of what goes on in the minds of the people that want Herb Sendek replaced. When we finish second in the ACC, he gets no credit because he should have had a better postseason. He gets to the Sweet 16, but he gets no credit because he should have had a better regular season. He takes his team to the NCAA Tourney four straight years, but it doesn’t matter because we’re not in the Preseason top 25 this year. He was ACC coach of the year, he recruited and coached the ACC player of the year, and no one ever mentions either. The people that don’t like Herb Sendek will talk about what they want to talk about, and they will continue to forget about the positives and talk about the negative so Herb gets no credit for anything. It’s a sad state of affairs from what people refer to as the most supportive fan base in America. To be a passionate fan is one thing. I consider myself the most passionate NC State basketball fan I know. To be supportive is another thing. I also consider myself the latter. When we all become passionate and supportive, great things will happen, and we can bring back the glory days. Since Fowler has continued to make it clear that Herb is here to stay, why don’t we give it a shot?

  9. Mr. O 11/16/2005 at 1:32 PM #

    Packbacker: I do think we should have done better in the post-season instead of blowing an 11 point lead to Vandy. Also, I do think we should have done better in the regular season last year.

    You and I have are differences too. Just like I have obvious differences between others in this discussion as well.

    I am pretty much in the middle of the Great Herb Debate. I think he has done enough for people to feel good about our program and to have earned some faith from Wolfpack fans. However, he still doesn’t have the program at the level I think we can reach eventually where he gets a free ride because of previous accomplishments.

  10. packbackers 11/16/2005 at 1:57 PM #

    You are exactly right. Four years ago I had my doubts. I was wondering myself why Lee continued to hang on to him. Perhaps he noticed the fact that in Herb’s first five years, he only had one of the losing seasons that were a staple of the Les Robinson era, and he noticed progress. Also, I’m sure he took all the injuries into consideration. Now, we still have work to do. We should have won at least one of the three ACC titles Herb has been in. We should have beaten Wisconsin last year. And we need to continue to progress. I support Herb because he is a winner, and our program has gotten better. That must continue.

  11. Class of '74 11/16/2005 at 3:15 PM #

    Herb has many of us on the fence because: 1. it has taken him so long to become moderately successful. 2. his teams play inconsistently particularly on offense. When Dean took over at UNC they were as bad off as we were 10 years ago. After three years he was lynched in effigy following a loss.
    But in the fourth year he got it turned around. Coach K’s situation though not as bad as Dean’s, or ours, took him four years. It has taken an awfully long time for Herb that’s all.
    Whether you like it or not after NINE years we have not shown the ability to consistently beat the top tier teams in basketball. I hope Herb succeeds but I’ll believe it when it happens. Hopefully this is the year!!!

  12. Rick 11/16/2005 at 3:27 PM #

    IMO the reason Herb does not have the “respect” so many seem to think he deserves is becuase he has yet to have a complete season. If he does well in the regular season he tanks in the tourneys and visa versa. Combine that with the frustration of watching our 5 minute scoring droughts and the unbelievable ability to lose games in bizarre ways and you get people that are not convinced.

  13. Trout 11/16/2005 at 3:29 PM #

    “When Dean took over at UNC they were as bad off as we were 10 years ago.”

    You really dont believe this, do you? Dean Smith took over UNC for the 1961-62 season. The 5 years previous for UNC:

    1957: 32-0, ACC Champs, National Champs
    1958: 19-7, 10-4 in the ACC, 2nd place ACC finish
    1959: 20-5, 12-2 in the ACC, tied for first in the ACC (went to the NCAA because NC State was on probation)
    1960: 18-6, 12-2 in the ACC, tied for first in the ACC
    1961: 19-4, 12-2 in the ACC, First place ACC finish

  14. Class of '74 11/16/2005 at 4:25 PM #

    YES I DO! 1962 they were allowed to play 17 games and their record was 8wins 9losses. The team consisted of 6 players. This was due to the point shaving scandals. The next year was 15-6 and they had 7 or 8 players. The next year they were 12-12. It was Dean’s fourth season before he finished higher than fourth in the 8 team conference.
    The penalty of 17 games and six players on scholarship is pretty darn servere. And they could not go off campus to recruit either!
    I’ll stand by my assertion!

  15. Trout 11/16/2005 at 4:46 PM #

    ^ Well, in 1962 NC State was under the same punishment, and finished 11-6 and 10-4 in the ACC.

    Dean was also the assistant coach for the preceeding 3 years, so he certainly carries some “blame” for anything UNC suffered. He was part of McGuire’s staff from 1959-1961.

    I guess I just dont equate the UNC’s preceeding 60-10 ACC record the 4 years before Dean became the coach to NC State’s preceeding 14-50 ACC record the 4 years before Herb became coach.

    However, you make a good point. Dean too had some troubles his first couple of years.

  16. Class of '74 11/16/2005 at 4:55 PM #

    Thanks, I was just a little kid but I do remember how bad UNC was and how few players they had. At the time they thought it was the end of the world.

  17. RedFred 01/26/2006 at 1:31 AM #

    Those were some interesting comments above, all from late 2005. It is now Jan. 25, 2006. Herb Sendek’s 2006 squad has just received a severe spanking at the hands of unranked Seton Hall. That pretty well sums it all up in my mind and I’m sure a lot of others that are referred to as “not supportive enough” in the postings above. I just about to admit to my buddies that I was finally coming around and that maybe Herb had turned the corner. He has in place, a perfect fit for his mind altering, and dreaded “Princeton style” system of athletic endeavor. I was actually starting to buy in and thought this might be the year he would prove me all wrong. What I would like to know is will there ever be a time in Herb Sendek’s tenure that any of us will be able to sit down BEFORE any basketball game, knowing confidently that we’re a better basketball team, and feel fairly assured of a win. NOPE. Hasn’t happened yet, and it would take about another 9 years of consistently winning games like tonight’s to forget the roller coaster ride he put us on in his first 9 years. I don’t think I want to wait that long. I am old enough to remember 1974, I am glad for the most part, that I was around to witness it. That was a once in a lifetime and magical time for NC State basketball. I don’t expect that again but I do expect a university rich in tradition with two national championships, an athletic program that is on par with the nation’s best, to be able to capitalize on its accomplishments. How has all of that rich tradition and passion been allowed to fade for the sake of year in, year out, run of the mill, mediocrity. It used to be NC State or Carolina, all the others were all just wannabe’s. Now it’s Duke or Carolina, and a line of inconsistent others. I will admit NC State is a threat to beat any team on any given night, but it has also been a threat to it’s ownself everytime it has stepped onto the court under Coach Sendek. They can look like world beaters one minute and then sixth graders the next trip down the court. But you can always bet on one thing, the deliberate “Princeton style” offense won’t change if their winning by 10 or down by 20. They will walk the ball across the timeline and there will be no show of urgency. Herb’s thinks that his team should play a “cerebral” style of basketball at all times, that there is just no call for all out intensity and athleticism in the game of basketball. I’m sorry, but its too stressful and embarrassing to watch and it has taken all of the fun out of a time of year that I used to live for.

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