Amato’s Record vs ACC

Staturday’s victory over Maryland brings a close to the sixth regular season of the Chuck Amato football coaching era.

Today’s win should insure that the Wolfpack will play in their fifth bowl of Amato’s six year tenure; only Dick Sheridan coached NC State teams to more bowls when he earned 6 bids in 7 years, a feat that Amato will try to match next season.

Although Amato’s overall performance at the helm of the NC State program is already record setting – 3rd winningest coach in history & 2nd most bowls – his performance within the Atlantic Coast Conference has been less stellar:

0-1 vs Boston College
2-4 vs Clemson
4-0 vs Duke
3-3 vs Florida State
2-4 vs Georgia Tech
2-4 vs Maryland
0-1 vs Miami
3-3 vs North Carolina
2-2 vs Virginia
1-1 vs Virginia Tech
4-2 vs Wake Forest

Summary Statistics:

* 23- 25 overall ACC record.

* Winning record against 2 ACC programs – Wake Forest and Duke.

* .500 record against 4 ACC programs.

* Losing record against 5 ACC programs.

* 11-5 vs the Big Four

General NCS Football

28 Responses to Amato’s Record vs ACC

  1. Sam M '92 11/27/2005 at 1:16 PM #

    The truth is — Amato is a mediocre coach.

    The problem is — he acts as if he’s a great coach.

    With Chuck at the helm, our program will probably float around 6 or 7 wins. The non-conference schedule will be light on good teams. In a bad year, we’ll win 5, in a good year, 8. For a mid-level ACC team, that’s really not so bad.

    He got our hopes up, and that’s where the disappointment comes from.

    I think the question for us, the fan base, is whether we’re willing to accept mediocrity. I don’t like it, but other than my low-level wolfpack club membership dues, I’m not paying for a better coach either.

    The good coaches cost more money than we’re paying the coaching staff now. If the bucks are there, we should spend and hire better coaches. If they aren’t, we might still look for a different coach — one who acts a little more in line with the results he delivers.

  2. Jeff 11/27/2005 at 2:22 PM #

    I concur with a lot of your initial comments re: Chuck. I don’t understand why everyone thinks that we don’t have enough money to hire the right coaches. (Not saying that Amato is not the right coach). We were able to offer Bill Cowher $2MM per year for 5 years…and that was six years ago. We followed that up by paying Chuck’s first staff more money than any other football staff in the entire country. And this was BEFORE $100MM in facility investments of the last few years. I just don’t buy it.

  3. Sam M '92 11/27/2005 at 2:52 PM #

    glad to hear we’ve got the $$

    let’s use it

    part of me wants to say Chuck should get another year, but he has had what – 6 now? and I’ve watched us over and over play the same mistake-prone, poorly executed, poorly disciplined, uninspired football. if Chuck were going to fix it, he would have done so by now.

    that said, I do think Chuck is going to get another year (at least). so, I hope we win the bowl game and that Chuck sorts out the team for next year.

    what will be missing (for me, anyway), is the fun of the off season — watching the recruiting, what the commentators are saying, etc. that stuff really depends on a sense of optimism about the team, and I just don’t see Chuck taking us anywhere.

  4. VaWolf82 11/27/2005 at 5:08 PM #

    It’s all about perception.

    The truth is that the FB program is not really even in the “middle” of the ACC with its second-consecutive losing ACC record. At least the MD win allowed State to drag MD and WF with us into last place in the division.

    However, hopefully Chuck can find a way to win a bowl game and give the perception of a winning program. The current team has some obvious holes to fill and graduation will leave alot more. There is alot of work to do for next year’s team to even do as well as this one. State can not afford to have an off year in recruiting.

    So hopefully Chuck can build a positive perception, but the realities don’t look too promising to me.

  5. Eddie 11/27/2005 at 7:15 PM #

    “I’ve watched us over and over play the same mistake-prone, poorly executed, poorly disciplined, uninspired football. if Chuck were going to fix it, he would have done so by now.”

    Did you, by chance, catch the last 5 games this year? Tell me in which of those games we put on a “mistake prone, poorly executed, poorly disciplined and uninspired” performance?

    Other than being unable to solve BC’s defense, the difference in the way we played was like night and day from the Wake game on.

    So why doesn’t Chuck get the credit for that? He made the changes. Stone at QB. Less penalties. Brown at RB.
    There was progress. You can’t deny it.

  6. Rick 11/27/2005 at 8:03 PM #

    I am still torn about Chuck.
    One thing is for sure, there is little to no chance Fowler will get rid of Amato.

  7. VaWolf82 11/27/2005 at 9:06 PM #

    Amato’s job security was never really in doubt and certainly cannot be a question now. Every thing we know about Fowler clearly shows that he will not make changes in losing programs. So there is absolutely no reason to think that he will make changes in any programs that reach their respective post-seasons.

  8. Class of '74 11/28/2005 at 6:26 AM #

    Wolfpackers be prepared for 5-6, 6-5 with maybe a 7-4 along the way with Chuck at the helm. And the sad part is with those kind of records he’ll retire in about 12 to 15 years with a gold watch.

  9. Mr. O 11/28/2005 at 8:17 AM #

    I listened to Steve Logan this past weekend. He was talking about how firing coaches isn’t always the right choice. He said that there are a lot of good coaches out there that will go through struggles. He used Penn St. and Syracuse as examples. Syracuse got rid of their coach and they went 1-10. They brought in a new AD from USC who brought in his own guy. In the short term, it wasn’t a good move. Then he talked about Penn St. Sticking with Paterno, who had some really bad years for Penn St, got them to a BCS game. Florida brought in Urban Meyer and it got them the same record they had the year before.

    He talked about making the judgement based on your bottom years. If they are really bad, then definitely make a move. However, for NC State is 6-5 and a minor bowl game really that bad of a year for us?

    Seasons like this one aren’t going to get an NC State coach fired. IMO, it shouldn’t get an NC State football coach fired. However, Amato will need to have seasons better than this and he has accomplished that in 4 of 6 seasons as our head coach. He just needs to bounce back next year with 7 or 8 wins. Winning this years bowl game will be a big help in rebuilding our perception which is so important in college football.

  10. Jeff 11/28/2005 at 8:21 AM #

    Class of ’74s comments represent my big fear. I’ve got a million thoughts about this related to the standards that our AD sets for our programs. We have finished: 6-5, 5-6, 7-5 in the last three regular seasons. The more that we continue to finish in this ‘no-mans-land’ the more frustrated people will be become, but the more acceptable those finishes are.

    Note: I am NOT ENDORSING the removal of Chuck Amato as NC State’s Head Coach. (I hate having to qualify everything that I say). But, I do fear that the prolonged acceptance of 6-5, 5-6, 6-5 sets a course of dealing standard. If you don’t fire someone after 6-5 one year…how can you justify doing it after another year (especially when you are Lee Fowler and can’t fire anyone to begin with?).

    I appreciate Logan’s perspective on this…and agree with the judging the bottom. (Only for ADs who don’t arbitrarily pretend that 5 bottom years never happened, by the way). But, the key of Mr.O’s comments is as follows: “He just needs to bounce back next year with 7 or 8 wins.”

    Hypothetically….what if he doesn’t bounce back with 7 or 8 wins. I remember thinking the EXACT same thing a couple of years ago. And then again last year. And again this year. When does anyone decide enough is enough? (Hypothetically) What is the breaking point?

    Hypothetically….when would we ever decide that 6-5 and a bowl is not the goal of the program? If .500 in the ACC and just barely making the NCAA Tournament is the goal of significantly more successful traditional program in basketball….would Fowler EVER decide that 6-5 isn’t the goal in football? After how many years? We are currently experience our 3rd consecutive year of the exact same performance. How many times do you have to beat your head against the wall to realize that nothing is changing? Does it matter that nothing is changin if we are going to the 8th place bowl at 6-5 every year?

  11. VaWolf82 11/28/2005 at 9:29 AM #

    “Hypothetically….when would we ever decide that 6-5 and a bowl is not the goal of the program?”

    Based on the MOC reign, combining 6-5 with consistent losses to UNC could/would lead to making a change. I would like to modify your question to “How long will 6-5 and .500 against UNC be acceptable?”

  12. Class of '74 11/28/2005 at 9:31 AM #

    For every Syracuse there is a South Carolina! It depends on who you bring in as the coach. Syracuse went for a defensive co-ordinator and SC went for Spurrier. With the $ we have we can get a big time coach we just have to want it bad enough. Right now we are in a state of inertia program wise.

  13. BJD95 11/28/2005 at 10:30 AM #

    If you don’t have the right man for the job, you fire him. The risk-averse “you could always get worse!” argument is simply foolish loser talk.

    What Amato has produced the past THREE seasons has been unacceptable. Our play down the stretch buys him another year, but that’s all. He has another ridiculous non-conference schedule, and could easily get to 8-4 by going .500 in the ACC.

  14. Class of '74 11/28/2005 at 10:38 AM #

    We need to measure our coach not on overall record but on conference record only. I’m sorry but wins over EKU, Arkansas State and the like are of no meaning, those should be viewed as automatics. IMHO Amato, O’Cain are no difference. The only difference is Amato had Rivers and new facilties and O’Cain recruited Rivers and didn’t have the facilities. Chuck is hype and that’s about all.

  15. BJD95 11/28/2005 at 10:39 AM #

    Also, I feel ambivalent at best about giving Chuck Amato credit for partially cleaning up a mess of his own creation. His team completely sucked through the first 6 games. How much credit should he get for the decent (not great) play down the stretch, when we should have been playing at least that well the WHOLE DAMNED SEASON?

  16. Jeff 11/28/2005 at 11:35 AM #

    You guys make some great points.

    But, I do not agree that Amato & O’Cain are no different. There is a HUGE difference between the competitiveness of our program right now.

    You can say “losing is still losing” all you want…and I won’t argue much of that as I agree with you.

    But, there is a HUGE difference in the program today from when we (as fans) used to walk into Carter-Finley expecting next to nothing, and knowing that it would take a miracle to win and just hoping not to lose by 70 points.

  17. Class of '74 11/28/2005 at 1:47 PM #

    From that point of view you’re probably correct; but to me our talent level is better and keeps us in the games and we still come up short. In the final anaylsis Chuck has been given much and we should expect much in return.

  18. blpack 11/28/2005 at 7:56 PM #

    At some point we will have to decide he can take us to the BCS or he can’t. I like Chuck, but it seems apparent that PR was the main reason why we won 34 games in 4 seasons. The overall expectations of our athletic dept needs to be much higher. This is not your father’s ACC on the gridiron any more.

  19. Eddie 11/28/2005 at 10:01 PM #

    How long has Chuck had the facilities to recruit with? 3 years?

    Think we can give him the proper time to build something here?

    Fact of the matter is, he won with smoke, mirrors, and Rivers 3 of his first 4 years.

    We had no business winning that many games with the talent that O’Cain left.

    But Chuck managed to get enough JC transfers and good Florida talent to supplement the few good O’Cain players and squeak out some good bowl seasons.
    O’Cain was never able to do that on a regular basis. That’s why he is gone.

    In the process, Chuck is now 3-3 vs. UNC, where O’Cain was 0-forever, and 3-3 vs. FSU, where O’Cain was 1-6 with a total fluke win. Chuck’s wins haven’t been 5-INT, Chris Weinke giveaways.

    We haven’t lost to Duke.

    We haven’t lost twice to Baylor.

    We haven’t lost to ECU.

    We’ve had bowl seasons in 5 of 6 years. O’Cain went to 3 in 7, winning one and getting absolutely blown out by Michigan and Miami in the other two.

    Amato has won only 2 less games overall in 6 seasons than O’Cain did in 7.

    As far a talent level, you have to be realistic. Even though Amato has recruited better than just about any coach before him, our average recruiting classes have been ranked in the 20’s. That’s with the one top-10 class figured in.
    So there isn’t as much talent as some of us think….but there is a lot more than O’Cain or Sheridan ever had.
    The facilities should start showing their worth over the next 4-5 years in recruiting. Going to a bowl this year will help our overall image, especially since we finished strong.

    It is unrealistic in today’s ACC to expect a coach to take a program from nowhere to a top contender in 5-6 years. Friedgen did it with the previous coaches’ recruits. Look at what the offensive guru has done with his own players.
    Look at Al Groh…he has consistently out-recruited Chuck, yet there he sits at 6-5 this year, barely backing into bowl eligibility. Their schedule was no tougher than ours, either so that argument won’t apply.

    It just isn’t easy. There are several teams each year in the ACC…State, Clemson, UMD, UVA, BC, that can either challenge for a division title if they catch a few breaks, or struggle to get bowl-eligible if things go against them.
    We are simply one of those teams, and although all of us want to be where we are guaranteed to be one of the top teams year in and year out, we have to realize that that will take some time to accomplish.

    I was frustrated early on this year like everyone else, but Chuck deserves the credit for making the changes needed to turn things around.
    I think he’s the man for the job, and if he isn’t, I can’t imagine who is at this point.

  20. Eddie 11/28/2005 at 10:05 PM #

    One more thing, does anyone realize that there have only been TWO regular season OOC losses, both to Ohio State?

    There have only been 3 OOC losses at all, counting the one to Pitt in the Tangerine bowl, since Chuck took over.

    Now how many did O’Cain have? And remember he played plenty of cupcakes too, so that isn’t the only reason Chuck has won.

  21. Class of '74 11/29/2005 at 6:42 AM #

    Check the records O’Cain was 26w 30L in the ACC in seven years that’s 47%
    and Chuck is 23w 25L in six years that’s 48%. If you want to quibble over 1% then have at it.

  22. DRO 11/29/2005 at 11:21 AM #

    One of the biggest beefs that people (both Pack fans and otherwise) I know have with Amato is the fact that he opened his tenure at State (and this season) talking about championships. That is all fine and dandy, but when you talk championships and NEVER finish higher than 4th in the ACC (even with Rivers), it gets people a little miffed. Amato has always been one to “have a bit of flair” so to speak, which endears him to many fans. However, he needs to tone down his talk (at least to the media and public) until he and the Pack can show that they can consistently compete at the top of the ACC.

  23. John Watts 12/21/2005 at 4:26 PM #

    Amato Sucks! State will always be mediocre as long as this clown with his Elton John glasses is kept around! Fire his ass now!

  24. Chico 02/20/2006 at 8:02 PM #

    Eddie—Chuck never had to coach against the caliber of UNC teams that Mike O’Cain did. The 3 UNC teams that Chuck beat sucked out loud—everyone beat them those three years. The three years that UNC was halfway decent even Chuck could not beat them. That includes this years UNC team that did not even go to a bowl but was respectable.
    Its like Jim Jones and Guyana in Wolfpack land—you will probably be the first one in line when Chuck offers the “Kool Aid” to Wolfpack fans.
    We are the most delusional crowd I have ever seen in my life.
    Dream on —but I say Chuck SUCKS!

  25. Chico 02/20/2006 at 8:04 PM #

    What about those “Chuck Amato is Your Daddy” T shirts. Or those shirts that all but proclaim our “dominance” over UNC in football.
    We are an embarrasment.

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