Sendek vs Big Four

(Updated: 2/11/05 @ 10:00am ET)

NC State dropped its fourth game in its last five outings tonight (thank you for exisiting, Clemson) tonight in an 86-75 loss at Wake Forest.

The Wolfpack is currently tied with Virginia and Florida State for next to last place in the ACC with a 3-7 record (13-10 overall).
* Since the Cavs and the Noles hold head to head wins over State (both in Raleigh), the Wolfpack currently sits in 10th place of the Atlantic Coast Conference.
* If Boston College was a member of the conference this year, the Pack would be 11th place. (Wait til next year?)

= > State is currently rated #106 in the RPI and #58 in the Sagarin. State’s Sagarin ratings are obviously the result of the strength of losses in our conference schedule – we are the highest rated team with double-digit losses. (What an honor!!!) The next highest-rated team with double-digit losses is Clemson at #64. It is not until Michigan at #90 do you see more double-digit loss teams than single-digit losses.
* We just want to thank everybody else in the ACC for working so hard to be good so that our conference losses don’t look as bad as our out of conference losses. Had every school in the conference except Duke and Maryland not changed coaches at least once during Sendek’s nine year hostage-crisis then they may not have elevated their programs like they have.

= > The loss brings State’s record to 0-3 against its Big Four rivals this season. These Big Four rivals now all three share the lead atop the Atlantic Coast Conference Standings.

= > This conversation of NC State Athletics Director Lee Fowler evidentally had this week really struck a nerve with me when the poster stated, “Fowler acknowledged that this year has been a disappointment. He was sick over the UVA loss. He did not seem as disappointed over the Carolina loss as ‘They have run alot of teams out of the gym’. And Va Tech and Miami have beaten a lot of teams.”
* Want to know two teams that Carolina has not run out of the gym? Answer: Wake and Duke. The ‘unbeatable’ Tar Heels currently sport a 1-2 record against their Big Four competition with their only win coming at the hands of NC State.

= > In 27 different opportunities, Sendek has compiled a winning record against a Big Four opponent in only 4 times/seasons. The coaches that were responsible for 3 of those 4 winning seasons were fired.

= > Sendek has never compiled a winning record against all three Big Four teams in a single season. He has managed to break-even on two occassions to earn a .500 record. This helped to offset the 2000-2001 season when he went winless against the Big Four for only the third time in the history of NC State Basketball.

= > During Sendek’s 9 year tenure, the Wolfpack has compiled a winning percentage significantly below our historical average against each Big Four rival.

= > The table below details the Wolfpack’s performance against Big Four teams in the Sendek era; seasons that are shaded in yellow denote coaches in their first year at the school:

vs Big Four2

= > The following table details Coach Sendek’s performance against Big Four Coaches.
* Sendek has a winning record against only Carolina’s Matt Doherty, who was fired just 2 years after being named National Coach of the Year in 2001.
* Sendek had a losing record against Bill Guthridge and Dave Odom, both of whom were nudged (or shoved) out of their respective jobs.

vs Big 4 Coaches

General NCS Basketball

17 Responses to Sendek vs Big Four

  1. JPS 02/10/2005 at 11:27 PM #

    Herb just needs more time…

  2. Bigslowrock 02/10/2005 at 11:30 PM #

    yeah, I notice 30-40 years, he’ll have this thing figured out.

  3. Dave 02/11/2005 at 11:15 AM #

    No arguments with your numbers or conclusions. I just want to point out that neither Guthridge nor Odom was pushed out of their jobs. Gut just retired. He never really planned on coaching long.

    With Odom, it was a bit more complicated, but basically he wanted out, so made unreasonable demands and then took the USC job. If he hadn’t gone to USC, he could have kept his job at Wake.

    Again, that’s no defense of Sendek, but I just wanted to point that out.

  4. homer 02/11/2005 at 11:30 AM #

    You know, you’re not helping matters any with your Sendek-bashing. If you think high-school players can’t use computers and get on websites like this you’re wrong. Sendek is our coach and “fans” like you need to support him or shut up and go root for some other team.

    Personally, I would rather have an HONORABLE coach who recruits players who actually BELONG in college as opposed to a coach like the one martryred by ESPN who completely destroys our program. Maybe you’ve forgotten about that. I was in school when the whole Valvano thing came down and I never want that to happen again. If I know our players are going to class and staying out of trouble then I could care less if we never win another title.

    As for our current coach, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But how about this – instead of just ripping him a new one why don’t you offer some suggestions as to who you’d replace him with that would do any better. I can already see your ad…

    WANTED – New coach. Must compete against two hall-of-fame coaches 30 minutes away and deal with fans who think their program is top tier. People who can’t reach a Final 4 within 3 years need not apply. Players academics are only important when they become a problem (or when they steal stereos or mug pizza men).

  5. Bobby 02/11/2005 at 11:49 AM #

    I think N.C. State has given Sendek plenty of chances to prove his self over a 9 year span. I think it is time for him to go. If Lee Fowler does not have the guts to fire him, then Lee Fowler should be fired also. Wal-mart is always hiring. I stand by the Wolfpack but enough is enough.

  6. JB34 02/11/2005 at 12:03 PM #

    Homer, you have got to be a parody that one of my friends is portraying.

    I guess EXISTING COACHES don’t use Sendek’s record against him at all. The recruits only get that kind of information from me!! LOL!!!

    You know…if all of this “information” and FACTS are so damning and hurt our program so much…why would you not support a change to alleviate ourselves from the impact of the numbers?

    Oh…that’s right…because for some odd reason your allegiance to Herb Sendek is much stronger than your allegiance to the pursuit of excellence at NC State.

    At least you admit that you don’t care about winning. Maybe you should take your conversation over to the website dedicated to NC State Basketball that doesn’t care about winning? Oh…that’s right…they are so disengaged and dispassionate that they don’t exist. Kind of interesting, eh?

    By the way…I was also in school during the Valvano years and can’t for the life of me seem to remember when Jimmy V held the position of Admissions Director at NC State. Can you enlighten me on that? If I knew who you were, then I would probably recognize you as that pimpled-face guy that ate & slept in the back corner of the 8th floor of the library stacks. Or is your name really Larry Monteith or Todd Turner?

    I’ll tell you what…you’ve had your way for the last 15 years and you’ve created arguably WORST Basketball program in the entire ACC over that time frame. Why don’t you step aside and back into your little think tank where things work great in theory and let those of us who have a little passion, motiviation, desire and who understand how to succeed in the real world take over for a while?

  7. BJD95 02/11/2005 at 12:26 PM #

    Anybody who is intimidated by the proximate presence of Roy and K is someone who would fail here anyway. The kind of coach we need is one who sees that as a great opportunity and an invigorating challenge.

  8. Mark Cramer 02/11/2005 at 12:27 PM #

    Good info here. My only qualifier would be that Duke has lost only 23 ACC games total (regular season & tourney) since Sendek’s arrival in the ACC. Since 1997, only Maryland (7) and UNC (5), and Wake (4) have beaten Duke more than State has. The rest of the league has a combined six wins over the Devils during that span. Doesn’t make it any easier to swallow, but at least here we’re not alone.

  9. blpack 02/11/2005 at 1:29 PM #

    Dave- think back carefully to when Gut and Odom left. I think you’ll see that their paths were made clear so they could ‘retire’ or ‘resign’. Either way their time was done, as Herb’s should be.
    Those are brutal numbers. Doesn’t get much better vs. the whole ACC.
    Think big, make a change.

  10. JPS 02/11/2005 at 2:12 PM #

    FWIW, I have way more sympathy for Pack fans who stand behind Sendek and the team by hearkening us back to the man who said, “Don’t give up! Don’t ever give up!” than I do for folks like Bobby. Apparently his outlook is “Don’t even try! Don’t ever even try!”

  11. AH 02/11/2005 at 6:18 PM #

    Homer, how inane! We were a top-tier program…check the stats…also, you might want to check that in the end, the NCAA found minor violations that the university botched…read about Jimmy V and his passion for getting his kids to class…I went to school during the Sendek early years and had a class with Kenny Inge and current assistant Archie Miller and they didn’t show up every time or even regularly…and let’s not even talk about guys getting arrested for night club incidents…Sendek’s discipline record is not spotless

    As far as a suggestion for coaches before you bash me, too, how ’bout Rick Barnes? I think he would come back to the ACC for less money than he’s making at Texas…I know he’s hit a SMALL, recent rough patch, but the fact of the matter is that he has won at CLEMSON and TEXAS…traditional basketball powers, right? Also, he’s got the guts enough to be passionate and not intimidated by a Coach K or Roy…remember he was the only one who could get Dean riled up in his later years.

  12. Bobby 02/12/2005 at 10:34 AM #

    JPS, I appreciate your comment but lets look at the facts. How can you get excited about the N.C. State Basketball Program when year after year, you don’t know when they are going to go on that losing streak again. It is the same thing every year. We have the talent on the team to be winning game after game. I don’t expect us to compete with NC or Duke but we should be winning the other games. Also the weak schedule that Sendek has every year does not make us a better team. You cannot evaluate your team when your playing Farleigh Dickerson or Campbell. Look at the top tier teams and they have a strong schedule. That’s what makes you better. A team like State should be able to play through the injuries based on the talent that they have on the bench. I think Sendek is an honorable man and runs a clean program. I don’t dispute that fact. But, the bottom line is he is not getting the job done.

    N.C. State is an excellent school, but it is time for a change. There are plenty of coaches out there that know how to win and can run a clean program.

    Also, look at the fact that we have a player year after year transferring to another school. You have to ask yourself, what is going on. FIRE SENDEK, LETS START WINNING AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. jw 02/12/2005 at 6:11 PM #

    Coming from a Tarheel I think that Herb should be the coach. We Tarheels like Herb. And if he stays we are sure to win 2 games a year. If i was a State fan I would have to agree with Bobby on this one.

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