“They are now the objects of that very same anger and wrath of God, that is expressed in the torments of hell. And the reason why they do not go down to hell at each moment, is not because God, in whose power they are, is not then very angry with them; as he is with many miserable creatures now tormented in hell, who there feel and bear the fierceness of his wrath. Yea, God is a great deal more angry with great numbers that are now on earth: yea, doubtless, with many that are now in this congregation, who it may be are at ease, than he is with many of those who are now in the flames of hell.”
- Jonathan Edwards, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God”
“N.C. State coach Tom O’Brien announced that Junior tailback Jamelle Eugene, last year’s team most valuable player, will miss the South Carolina game because of an ankle injury.
“…O’Brien also listed two players who have left the program and will look to transfer elsewhere: sophomore linebacker Thomas Barnes, who played in 10 games last year as a true freshman, and freshman defensive tackle Kyle Linney, who enrolled in January after signing with the Wolfpack in the spring of 2007.
Offensive lineman Sam Jones, who signed to play with the Wolfpack in February, still has some work to do to meet NCAA qualifications and will enroll at State in January, O’Brien said.
Finally, in what O’Brien said was “his decision,” senior offensive guard Curtis Crouch, who was listed as the backup right guard, will not make the trip to South Carolina. Redshirt freshman Henry Lawson will play behind starter Meares Green at right guard.”
Aw, Jeez!! It don’t get any worse! It’s gonna be wet in Columbia so we really needed the running game!
Just hope this isn’t a lingering thing and he’s back for conference play.
That stinks about Eugene! Let’s just hope that FOR ONCE this an injury that will heal in the realm of a “reasonable” timespan.
About the others, was it just that they didn’t like the system, or house cleaning by the staff, or what???
That’s it–we are the collegiate equivalent of the Chicago cubs.
We are so very fucked. USC is going to blitz the living shit out of us. I will be happy if we score.
If we get within three touchdowns, it will be a victory.
Overall, we’re better off without those who have left the program.
It’s going to be a long year, but it will get better.
don’t forget… Javon Walker out for the year…
Thursday is going to be ugly. At Clemson is going to be even uglier. Realistically we may not have a winning season until 2010 and that is IF recruiting gets better.
Can all of you negative people stop posting on here? I’m tired of hearing it all the time! Have some optimism about our program and team! There is a guy, I’m not sure if most of you all have heard of him or not, named Andre Brown. He was named to the Doak Walker list last season and is still projected as one of the best running backs coming out of college this season. Maybe he can suffice at running back for a game or two until Eugene is healthy.
“If we get within three touchdowns, it will be a victory.”
That’s more like it! I feel better about the game already.
Our problem as a collective whole is that we expect the worse to happen and then think negative thoughts when they do. Please start positive talk about how Baker and Brown will show up and live up to the reputations they had coming in. Lets rave about how TO is gaining the respect of the players and how them buying into his system will reap benefits for years to come. Let us rejoice in the fact that our young Dbs will get the chance to get valuable game experience. Remember that upsets happen every week. Know that we will play a hell of a game and that we believe we can win. The Wolf Pack fans are kind and loving people and we are worthy of football greatness. It will happen but you have to believe and verbalize it first.You may say I am a dreamer but I’m not the only one and besides how has the other way been working for us in the past.
I don’t think the loss of Eugene or Crouch for this game will be the difference maker.
I expect a decent game. Our D will do a good job. We will spread it some and make enough plays.
RUN RUSSELL RUN
Benmiller: On TOB’s radio show, he mentioned Baker may not be back until next year.
Also, Javon Walker is also done for the year.
We will win on Thursday. Gamecocks ain’t going to start this year the way they started last. We will be 2 and 0 going into Clemson and will give them more then they expect out of us. Wilson is going to step on the field Thursday and will become the leader his father has raised him to be. LET’S GO PACK!!!
Andre Brown has his shot. T think he the best back we got any way and certainly the most physical. He can carry the load!
Can all of you negative people stop posting on here?
Sorry. This is the adult site where we talk openly and honestly about what we see and think. If you want sunshine blown up your skirt, you will need to look elsewhere. We are always happy to talk about positives…but we don’t make them up just to put a good face on things.
I posted this a little earlier on the “Don’t forget the Defense” thread…
I’m just as hopeful as I ALWAYS am, but I’m not about to dare to guess the number of W’s and L’s for this season. TOB is still in the middle of restructuring, and without players of his own choosing for the most part, so this is yet another season where I would be happy just to see his (successful) philosophy really start taking hold for the future.
Thanks VaWolf82, you reminded me why I get into arguments with State fans at every sporting event I attend. Sixty percent of State fans don’t know anything about sports, they just go to games to get drunk, bad mouth the players and coaches, and then leave at halftime! I don’t want sunshine blown up my boxers, I guess you’re referring to yourself with the skirt comment. I just want people to express their feelings on here without completely bashing the team before the season starts. One game hasn’t been played yet and half of you think we are going to loose to Duke. Tom O’Brien is one of the best coaches in college and he can out gameplan Spurrier any day of the week! I have complete faith in the team and coaches until the last snap against Miami, or hopefully who we play in a bowl.
I am trying to be positive but this puts a dagger in the heart imo. I just hope uSuC plays really bad.
I’m ok with Eugene being out, because I think Andre Brown and Curtis Underwood will do fine against SC. I am wondering why Crouch isn’t playing…and why Barnes and Linney want to transfer. That’s odd to me…is something going on with the coaching staff and the players?
I wonder what happened w/ Barnes. Wasn’t he one of TOB’s recruits?
Bummer about Curtis.
“One game hasn’t been played yet and half of you think we are going to loose to Duke.”
I haven’t seen that posted once. A little over the top there, my friend.
Barnes was really fat and out of shape to be such a short linebacker. Also, I don’t think he was going to get the playing time that he was hoping for. I think Linney had some character concerns, not sure about Crouch. It probably has something to do with him not starting after being a starter for 2 years.
No thought policing, if you would please. This was a tall order with Eugene, whose presence will be felt most in the return game. In what I expect to be a close game into the fourth, that could be an Achilles’ heel.
And for one who knows so much about sports, you certainly didn’t fail to realize we are without our 2 most productive players from LY, Bowens being the other. Or that we are starting 12 new players, most notably an extremely talented RS freshman signal caller. Or that we are on the road in a difficult environment, against a stout defense and a solid coaching staff. Or that we will have five Frosh on the two deep. TOB will make some lemonade out of this, but it will likely be a little tart for few games.
A lot of the posters here, most notably Noah, choose to expect the worst because they have been State fans a LONG time. We’ve learned when we expect good things they are most cruelly snatched from our grasp. And we find solace in the shared experience, frequently choosing satirical wit over dismissive optimism. I choose to think of it as a defense mechanism, a case of not wanting to tempt fate, by being cautious in our expectations. The same fate that smacks us in the face without provocation anyway, as this most recent development would indicate.
No one forgot we have Brown, but perhaps you forgot he’s been injured and isn’t in prime game shape. In any event, Underwood proved a capable understudy LY, even after admitting he wasn’t as focused as he should be, so I’m not concerned as much about the running game. Graham will have to step up though, and I hope we don’t have a muff or an inside the ten fielding error on account of Eugene’s absence.
And the arguing with strangers in public thing seems more like a personality defect than expert analysis. There are others that played ball in college (some on this site), and perhaps they too paid attention while playing.
Negatives:
1) Brown is not in any kind of shape to tote the rock 25+ times against the Chickens.
2) Eugene’s quickness and ability to create offense in space was the KEY to slowing down USC’s defense.
3) Underwood will play significant minutes, and we will be lucky to see anything better than utter pants-shitting. I don’t even want to think about what Plan C is at RB.
4) The SEC is easily the best conference in the nation. South Carolina is a middle of the pack team in said league. The ACC is, at best, the 5th best conference. NC State is a consensus bottom feeder for this year, with serious depth issues BEFORE the rash of injuries.
5) South Carolina is at home, in front of 80,000 crazed redneck faithful.
6) NC State has no game breaker (or even above-average players) at WR. More blitzing from the defense.
7) Preseason reports indicate that the OL will be a continuing problem area.
8. Guess which SEC team has the most starters on The Sporting News’ preseason all-conference team? Not Florida. Not Georgia. Not LSU. South Carolina (4).
Positives:
1) Tom O’Brien is our coach, and is too old to leave before turning things around at NC State.
2) Daniel Evans is no longer the starting QB.
There you go. Fair and balanced. Doesn’t take a genius (or even a Spurrier) to do the math here.
Winning or losing hinges on Russel Wilson
Plan C at RB is Brandon Barnes, who has been impressive.
I love it when people cherry-pick my posts and talk about how negative I am…completely ignoring where I said things will get better.
Look, what the hell did you expect? Chuck Amato spent three years filling the roster with crap. Why are you surprised that it takes time to get rid of that crap and then replace it and coach it and train it with quality players??
USC has a good SEC defense and the o-line, not the RB, will determine how well we move the ball.
It’s definitely not a good time to bring it up or to site the factors involved, but I’m am going to go ahead and get this out of the way, and say that I am still not convinced about TOB.
I’d say I’m more positive than not, simply because that’s my nature, but I do have my reservations about the overall picture. I do believe that TOB is a good coach, I just don’t know if the place where he’s employed right now, even requires that of him though.
Not negative, just brutally honest and sincere with guardedly pessimistic overtones.
Jesus, this is ridiculous. Bowens, Walker, C Johnson, out for season, Baker doubtful for the season, Eugene out for SC, Crouch not making the trip, a half dozen players (Linney, Barnes…) transferring… whoever said they want to hear some good news, you picked the wrong damn thread.
Crouch needs to figure this things out, because seniors aren’t supposed to be benched and/or disciplined right before a game like this. Is he pouting? I guess we haven’t weeded everyone out yet, huh? I am going to try really hard to just remember that we need to take the long view about program building here, and not worry about this or that game. Thursday could get ugly, I’m afraid.
“I love it when people cherry-pick my posts and talk about how negative I am…completely ignoring where I said things will get better.”
I did notice that you said “things will get better”, I just ignored it though. Seems that when you’re at you’re absolute negative best, that’s when NC STATE rises above. Works kind of like a good luck charm, for me anyway. You’re a long time State fan, you definitely have more than reason enough to back your viewpoint.
Just having fun, nothing personal meant. Lighten up man.
whoever said (i can scroll up but i choose not to) think positive, stop watching Dr. Phil and Oprah. This is Div1 football and some serious issues are going on.
It’s not only losing players, i.e. physical bodies, its the morale that it imparts to everyone in the program, who are, i am sure, sicker and more tired than we are of hearing about season ending injuries, who the hell gets their draw broken nowadays?? wearing a helmet!!! My only guess is that some UNX DWI-er was driving a little too close to the practice field when Clem Johnson got the better end of hitting the little scion car, he just got a broken jaw out of it.
Mack Brown went 1-10 two straight years. If we win 2-3 games this year, that might not be as important as seriously seeing if the team is playing with more discipline and poise. THOSE are about the only positives I am actually going to be looking for.
is baker really out for the entire year? again? what the hell happened to his knee. was it re-injured? if he just got it scoped, it shouldn’t be more than a couple of weeks before hes back. wasnt javon walker going to start?
Mack Brown inherited a steaming pile of crap, too. There should be absolutely no second guessing of TOB, as he has proven to be a good coach.
It amazes me that anyone could still think that Chuck Amato shouldn’t have been fired.
I’m trying to think positive here…
Still trying…
Still trying………..
Seriously, this shit has gotten ridiculous. Our seasons have been fucked from the get go for two straight years.
No other way to paint it. We’ve lost a ton already, more than I even care to remember prior to a season. I hope to hell Brown is ready.
Anyone know the story on Crouch & Barnes?
I was optimistic when I thought Bowens was the only biggie out. Now I’m totally discouraged about Thursday.
I just saw this in the 8/24 of the Fayetteville Observer
Former E.E. Smith standout Curtis Crouch heads into his senior season determined to be a leader on the Wolfpack’s offensive line. Crouch lost 15 pounds in the offseason “as a personal motivational thing” to get down to 320. He’s also tried to become a more vocal leader and sharpen his discipline on and off the field after spending much of 2007 in O’Brien’s doghouse. “I had some academic problems,” Crouch said. “And I faced a pretty big decision as far as whether to stay or leave. I decided to stay and become one with Coach O’Brien and his values for this program.”
So by TOB not taking him, i don’t know if that’s more academic problems or he has decided to “not stay”.
Going to be an exciting year in my view. Looking at the depth chart we are young team and the coaching staff is building for the future. So the season is hard to predict except that we hope the team gets better from week to week. Depth chart clearly shows our recruiting short falls in previous years. If we can find some offense and get some turnovers we got a shot tomorrow night because the Gamecoscks are breaking in a new QB. Even Steve S. keeping his mouth closed about his teams expectations because he doesn’t know what to expect either. Who knows maybe we get 5 interceptions and win the game like we did against a new QB named Chis Weinke and Florida State one year.
TOB goes 100% at practice but uses prudence to not have it become counter productive. Thats what kind of coach he is, that is why his teams “do more with less”.
An idea of the things that happen when you do it the Dallas Cowboys way in practice (take every other play off, skip meetings and so on). Then the solutions to these problems.
Problem 1 Guys are more prone to injuries because they are trying to be explosive and show they are giving it all for the chance to play. They come to close to equalling the probability of injuries that often are game related.
Solution 1 Get the guys into the two deep who evolve into the strength and conditioning program and who take it as far as they can take it. Get the players into the two deep that master the technique aspects of the game and repeat it repeatedly in practice. You don’t have to go like a bat out of hell and rip something up because you are using poor technique and have to over compensate.
gopack does yet another fantastic job of reporting. Check out the story that gives the injury report. The picture with the story is of Andre Brown, not Eugene. I guess the State marketing folks don’t even know the numbers of the players.
All summer long, I’ve been saying that I’ve been worried about Baker. Everytime I mention it here, I get the same response about how Baker is going to be fine. His knee is great, no pain, etc.
I don’t know, I’m not his doctor. The Baker family doesn’t consult with me or share medical news with me.
But when I talk to the smarties who know folks inside the program, they consistently have doubts about us seeing a completely healthy Toney Baker back on the field. Doesn’t mean he won’t ever play again…it just means that his knee injuries might prevent him from ever making it all the way back.
I hope they are wrong and I hope everyone comes here and slams me and gives me the old, “In your face!” when Baker becomes our next 1,000 yard back.
I share plenty of good news too. It’s just that the good news is almost always, “Recruit so-and-so who has never played a game for us has been very impressive in practice. They’re really pleased about him.” When I share bad news, it’s “Team Captain and Critical Player #1 That We Absolutely CANT Lose or We’re F-ed just got eaten by a tiger on the 30-yard-line.”
The difference is that the good news usually comes in the form of potential. The bad news comes in the form of reality.
Here’s some good news: The staff REALLY likes the guys they brought in last year. They like that they brought in a total football team, with people at just about every position. A number of those guys are going to play this year and are ready to contribute. Zach Allen, for instance, was a lightly-regarded guard who has come in and kicked some butt and is going to be a multi-year starter (maybe not this year, though). The aforementioned Brandon Barnes is going to be a great one. Sam Jones still wants to come to State and is going to try and enroll in January.
And I am going to repeat something I’ve said before and people chose to ignore. When I asked about scholarship numbers earlier this year, I was told that we were probably going to have another full class. When I mentioned that we were running low on available scholarships, I was told to expect a lot of attrition. The coaches expected several transfers, they expected a few people to not come back from injury and they anticipated that a couple of academic casualties were in the works.
While this year’s recruiting class will not rank as high as last year’s, it will have a number of good players in it and NEXT year’s class should be excellent.
Please take note of this post and print it out and stick it somewhere close by. Then, the next time you want to complain about how I’m always so negative and Eeyore-ish, take it out and read it again.
Noah and I have been at odds many times in the past (typically in the end he is the one who has proven to be correct). Today however, we are thinking somewhat the same. However, as always…I’m more optimistic than he is.
I remember a running back from not that long ago that came in and started as a true freshman and had a record breaking season. T.A. McLendon was a freaking beast. Maybe…Barnes will be half as good as a freshman.
The other thing I want everyone to remember is that originally, before the injuries, we were DEEP at wide receiver. I think that this will provide a great opportunity for Jay Smith or Darrell Davis or Owen Spencer or T.J. Graham or Geron James to shine.
But thats just me. I’m an optimist.
Last night, TOB said that Toney Baker was overweight and is on a diet. He seemed to say that it would be better to have an in-shape Baker next year because we have all the RBs we need this year.
Eugene is injured, but thankfully we have Andre Brown to step right in and should not lose much if anything. Andre Brown was our heart’s desire two years ago, and he is healthy, in-shape, and ready to go.
TOB has also said that we are improved on both the O-line and Defense from last year, so we should be an improved team. He is talking bowl game.
Also, don’t forget Geron James at WR.
Crouch is obviously in the dog house. It’s nice to know there is a dog house with this coach.
Russell Wilson almost got the nod last year, but was eventually redshirted a la Glennon. So one would expect improved QB play this year. He is said to have a rocket of an arm and obviously is a player of great character.
On a more pessimistic note…it’s not a good thing for all the guys that your redshirt freshman quarterback practiced with to be injured.
Eugene has been the starter at running back since day one of the spring. I suspect handing the ball off to Brown is different. I hope we don’t mishandle any hand-offs.
You also have to worry about timing between the wide receivers and the young QB. Sure…they are talented, but again…they aren’t used to working together. I hope we don’t have a costly interception because people aren’t where Wilson thought they’d be.
One positive is that despite the fact we’ll be playing without Crouch…his replacement this year is Meares Green…not Kelanni Heppe or Yomi Ojo.
Did you all see that RJ Mattes is supposed to travel, dress, and play tomorrow? I guess that’s more OL backup (Henry Lawson?), but playing a true freshman OL in the first game can’t be a good sign. I dunno if that’s because of the Couch situation or what. Also losing Eugene is yet another return man down for us.
Are this years injuries and defections worse than last year at this point? If Baker can’t make it back, I tend to think so, losing #1 WR, 2 safety starters, #2/3 RB, #3DT, and the #1 RB for a few games. Ugh…
I think I made the call last week that Russell Wilson will be returning kickoffs and punts.
I wouldn’t call Linney a #3 DT. Try about #7 or 8.
If Lawson plays look at some of possible contributors from the ‘06 class.
1) Wilson
Underwood (TOB)
2) Byers
3) Simmons
4) Vermiglio (TOB)
5) Bryan
6) Roberts
7) Rieskopf (TOB)
9) Smith
10) Wallace
11) Cole (TOB)
12) Howard
13) Kuhn
These are all guys I think will play tommarrow. Some but not all were coming to State to play for Amato. The guys who were only TOB involved are noted.
If even a portion of these guys show that they fit the system TOB wants to play and produce favorable results often then not, then just think about how the future recruits in classes fully involved w/ TOB and his staff will turn out.
This is how I am approaching this season, look for these guys and watch them play and perform. AB, TB, Hill, Cash and Crouch. We want them to help now and finish out the time at State on a high note. That said I am rooting for the young guys a ton and if it’s by outplaying upperclassman, attrition, or god help us more injuries that means that they will play then so be it.
I think that Spurrier has asked TOB if Russell could kickoff and punt for USC as well, so he will be kicking the ball and then running down the field, catching the ball and returning it. I think that he will also be doing the play by play for ESPN.
Seriously, I could not agree more with Newts comments, and to build on them, TOB and his staff are installing discipline, discipline, discipline. The effect of this will be a much more confident, controlled, and effective team with less turn overs and penalties, and more aggressive play on defense. Conversely, those players who do not get with the program will find themselves looking for a new home or sitting at home when the team travels.
Putting talent aside, you can expect this team to play much faster, they will react to situations instinctively as opposed to having to think about them as they did last year. Folks we have a coach and he is building a program, not just a once in awhile flash in the pan. Do you think that it is just coincidence that Florida State is having discipline problems? The hold overs from the past regime are being weeded out and replaced by players who will play within the system. Gone are the days of the over hyped, self indulged players of the past several seasons. This team may lose to the opposition, but it WILL NOT beat itself!
This may sound like self contrived optimism, but I have been a Pack fan for a long time and I am in it for the long haul. Success is not about individuals, it is about building a team and I see that happening right before our eyes. We are not far from the days when an injury to a key player simply means that we reload and move on without missing a beat. We may not be there quite yet, but I can see it coming and that gets me worked up. I am excited about this Thursdays game and I am looking for consistency and improvement, a win would just be icing on the cake. USC is going to have to beat us because we sure as hell will not hand it over to them, that’s past history.
^^By #3, I meant third string. Linney went thru the spring, so he surely was better than a true freshman. He wasn’t going to be a major contributor this year, but a potential future starter down the road.
If you really want to p*ss TOB off, come out and loaf at one of his practices. Coast a bit and see what he does.
That should answer a lot of your questions about who and why and how.
Noah
What did you mean by this years class being lower ranked but next years being great?
We have offers to some amazing athletes but I would’t consider ourselves as early fav’s with any of them.
I expect this years class with the likes of Goode, Dowdy and Cheek to be the norm and last years class of Glennon, Mattes, Manning and Barnes to be the exception. We just had too many positions wide open for guys to play for alot of them to say no, IMO.
Not to get to creepy into reruits, but what is going on at Safety? I hope this position doesn’t turn into TOB’s place kicker at BC repeated.
Very clever take.
Thanks for the laugh–which is the only valid response at this point in the absurdity.
Last year’s class was ranked right around 25th, as I recall. This year’s class will probably be ranked somewhere between 45-50. Next year’s haul, I think, will be somewhere in the upper teens.
The talent in NC this year is a little down. Next year is a much better year.
Hmm…for some reason that comment needs moderating.
This is what I posted.
Last year’s class was ranked right around 25th, as I recall. This year’s class will probably be ranked somewhere between 45-50. Next year’s haul, I think, will be somewhere in the upper teens.
The talent in NC this year is a little down. Next year is a much better year.
All right, I posted two explanations and both of them are awaiting moderation. I don’t know what was controversial about them.
Noah, if you wouldn’t have been all high and mighty up there building your damn ark all summer, you’d get better treatment. Plus, have you looked at the monsoon outside…
We’re Wolfpack fans. We were BORN to suffer.
wtf?
I predict Mr. Wilson will get to meet each of USC’s linebacking core up close and personal throughout the game.
I hate Steve Spurrear. (misspelling intentional)
You sure don’t want to hear so much of this kind of stuff coming out of the Murphy Center 48 hours before you start your season on national TV, but I must say I like that fact that some of the detritus from CtC is leaving. How many opponent offensive possessions were extended because of personal foul penalties? How many offensive possessions were derailed by a myriad of illegal motion penalties. How many late game laments by color commentators, about how undisciplined NC State was, have we had to suffer through the last few years. If they are finally starting to get that change is already here and they still don’t want to change. Good-bye and good riddance.
VaWolf82
Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Can all of you negative people stop posting on here?
“Sorry. This is the adult site where we talk openly and honestly about what we see and think. If you want sunshine blown up your skirt, you will need to look elsewhere. We are always happy to talk about positives…but we don’t make them up just to put a good face on things.”
In other words…….if there ain’t nothin to bitch about, you won’t hear much from us.
Bad luck is kind of what we sign up for as State fans. In our defense, when times are bad, at least we don’t wilt away unlike the fans of other schools…
Regardless of the outcome tonight, Happy College Football Day to all.
“It amazes me that anyone could still think that Chuck Amato shouldn’t have been fired.”
Funny, I was thinking about Amato when reading about our string of bad luck and lack of any kind of depth on the roster. It’s amazing just how bad the talent level got in Chuck’s last few years, and how a lot of Wolfpack fans (including myself) just didn’t see it until the very end. There was no way in hell he should have been retained. I loved Coach, but he left this program a complete mess.
All right, I posted two explanations and both of them are awaiting moderation. I don’t know what was controversial about them.
Don’t feel bad or picked on. Some (most?) of mine are going to spam and I have to remember to go dig them out.