Blood In The Water- Tudor & Dascenzo Fire Away (Updated 10:30am)

“Other than his love for his school, lively personality and work with the defensive unit, there’s not a compelling argument to be made for giving Amato more time.” (Caulton Tudor)

Dascenzo: Amato’s stock isn’t on the rise

Ah Chuck, this is late November and you’re standing across the field from that light blue color, the one that your Wolfpack Nation doesn’t like very much and dearly loves to have the upper hand against. Ah Chuck, this is THE game on your schedule every year, and you’re going to be remembered for the outcome of every time you play these guys.

Somewhere along the way to Chapel Hill, the Wolfpack’s offense got lost and never could be found. Marc Trestman is N.C. State’s offensive coordinator, and he likely has had better days than this one. Ah Marc, you’re in this too, buddy.

N.C. State’s facilities are excellent, football is a popular sport in Raleigh and basketball is rebuilding with new coach Sidney Lowe.

N.C. State looked undisciplined, unsure of everything and anything on offense. And its defense, especially early on, was stuffed by UNC’s running game.

You couldn’t find a positive within Amato’s team on this day. It lacked imagination on offense but, more importantly, it lacked execution. And those nine penalties will not set well with Amato or his coaches.

Tudor: Loss puts Amato in hot water

The end result of the Tar Heels’ 23-9 victory could well be that Amato soon joins Bunting in the unemployed ranks.

That Amato is in trouble — big, loud trouble — isn’t the question. He is.

The question is: Can he survive and return to coach his alma mater for an eighth season in 2007?

Amato, today, is where Bunting was after UNC dropped successive games to South Florida (37-20) and Virginia (23-0) in mid-October. He was fired three days later.

It’s right that Amato should be in this trouble, too. In the three seasons since quarterback Philip Rivers graduated, the Wolfpack’s offense has fallen into such a state of disrepair and misdirection that it’s illogical to assume that a great deal is going to change between now and September.

The more you read of Tudor’s article the more home runs that he hits and nails that he hammers. The following point couldn’t be more common-sensical and more on the money!!! In fact, the quote is one of the key management dictums that (during the Sendek years) proved Lee Fowler’s inadequacy to be an Athletics Director at a major University.

There’s a chance Amato will get another year. But if so, it would be a plunge into purgatory marked by a weekly referendum on his fate. N.C. State would have 12 games, each a certifiable crisis until the coach either won or lost enough games to make the eventual decision a moot issue.

In this entry after yesterday’s game, BJD shared the following information:

SFN has been been told by 2 independent sources that Chuck Amato would be fired if Chuck loses out (and maybe if he just lost today). Oblinger is ready to make the move and the big donors are squarely (not sure if unanimously) behind him. I’m putting this out there because the pressure needs to be public and intense from this moment forward.

^The idea that State needed to lose two in a row before making a change bothered us to the core because we don’t understand the difference between losing out and simply losing one of these two. Big F*ing deal?

It feels EXACTLY like TYPICAL NC State cowardly management – let’s keep changing the standard and give (insert employee here) another chance by basing our decision on a completely subjective and irrelevant standard while ignoring years of history.

The quote that follows from Caulton Tudor are another way of sharing EXACTLY the way we feel —

The East Carolina game is 100% inconsequential at this point. Either you are pleased with the direction of the football program or you are not. What does a game against ECU have to do with that?

Another thanks to Tudor for getting this right:

Even a one-sided win over East Carolina wouldn’t be enough to change the dilemma ahead. The Pack’s ACC season is over at 2-6, good for last place in the Atlantic Division. The overall record can be no better than 4-8, and the offense has failed to score more than 24 points in a game this season.

If anything, East Carolina University serves as a model for NC State’s next steps; NOT a determining factor in our future.

Two years ago this week, NC State defeated a broken ECU program 52-14 to send the Pirates to a 2-9 season on the back of a 1-11 season. Terry Holland fired a coach that was only given two years (and showed improvement in year two!) and hired Skip Holtz. Two years later, ECU is competing for a conference championships and will be FAVORED in a game in Carter-Finley.

Note that the coach didn’t need five years of failure to get his recruits in and build the program. Note that the coach didn’t need $100MM of new facilities before his clock started. Note that the coach came into a program that had been failing miserably and not recruiting well and has immediately made an impact.

Perhaps someone in NC State’s athletics administration would like to start noting the way others run their departments.

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71 Responses to Blood In The Water- Tudor & Dascenzo Fire Away (Updated 10:30am)

  1. Texpack 11/19/2006 at 10:09 AM #

    Unless Chuck resigns, he will be the Head Coach next year. Fowler won’t fire him. Hopefully Chuck will realize how bad he is and leave on his own.

    SFN: Just don’t understand how people feel the need to make these kinds of proclamtions as if they know something or that this is just the way that it is.

  2. jmrncsu1991 11/19/2006 at 10:25 AM #

    As terrible as yesterday was, and as bad as I hate to admit it, I have to agree with Texpack. Unless CTC falls on his sword, he will back as HC next year. Another year of working fannies off and being really close.

  3. Great Dane Guy 11/19/2006 at 10:32 AM #

    I would tend to agree with the above, based on Fowler’s past performance. There have been rumblings that it may not be up to him though. I don’t know what that means; ie, Oblinger or WPC or both.

  4. JT 11/19/2006 at 10:38 AM #

    I disagree. Amato doesn’t possess the positive attributes that kept Sendek safe- apparent intelligence, a “classy” (boring) reputation, or a reputation as a good x and o’s guy. Sendek got a pass due to his undeservedly positive reputation. Amato has nothing. He’s arrogant, prickly, and most importantly a bad coach. Since and including Rivers’ senior year State football has been one long penalty and turnover infested struggle. It’s terrible to watch and I hope the sense of hopelessness with which Pack fans have been saddled disappears soon, whether it be through Amato’s dismissal or a sudden improvement in his coaching ability.

  5. BJD95 11/19/2006 at 10:40 AM #

    This is great news. We learned the template from the Sendek situation – the key to building a ciritcal mass of pressure is breaking out of the internet and into the MSM.

    Not to say the analogy is perfect, as Amato has earned a firing, rather than strong encouragement to move on. But loud, public pressure DOES matter. Keep it up, Wolfpack brethren!

  6. one00_proof 11/19/2006 at 11:09 AM #

    It’s pretty evident and inevitable now that Amato will be fired and should be fired as soon as possible. Unlike Bunting, whose one saving grace was that he had a stellar recruiting class, Amato has a fairly timid 2007 class (and for those who think Amato should be credited for getting 4-star Jay Smith, the kid was a State fan growing up), so there is really no huge loss losing him. The sad thing is, the silver lining was that with the UNC loss, this inevitably seals Amato’s fate, which on the flipside if he possible won both UNC and ECU, he’d be back for another season to torture us again with his antics. With the big donors obviously unhappy with Amato, they should fire Amato as soon as possible and unlike the whole Sendek debacle, most of the media will not scrutinize NC State for firing Amato because he is 1) not a good coach and 2) is not winning in a place that is VERY winnable and 3) the expectations are not unrealistic. Monday would be a perfect time to can Amato to take the long weekend to look for a new coach and word is that a few of the names being looked into are Norm Chow, Paul Johnson and of course, Bill Cowher. There are also a bevy of assistants who are drooling at the possibility of coaching at NC State so it can hopefully only get better from here.

  7. OwenDorm83 11/19/2006 at 11:19 AM #

    It’s disappointing that it turned out this way. Who would have imagined that after we smacked Notre Dame around (admittedly, they were not their normal self that year) in J-ville, that we wouldn’t improve. We had recruits coming in, etc. etc. The sky was the limit.

    We haven’t done anything but disappoint since then. Rivers’ last season was a disappointment. Close loss at the Horseshoe, Maryland had our number (again), FSU away game was close but no cigar in overtime, etc. We had one last chance and took out our frustration against a really overmatched Kansas team in the bowl game.

    Post PR, year 1, we had best D in the nation (ok, by stats, & stats can lie, but no doubt, VERY good). Our O just can’t get-r-done. Whip Ohio State at home in every category but the score. Ted Nugent sends us home disappointed by kicking about 7 75 yard field goals. We beat Wake in OT. Lose to Heels on the terrible call. TA fumbles again and again and again and again and again. Losing record. Chuck says “this won’t happen again.”

    Post PR, year 2, we’re one miracle play at Ga Tech from losing record. Heels come over to our place and DOMINATE us in the second half. NOT EVEN CLOSE. We pull off a minor miracle to finish 6-5 and go to the tire bowl (at least I didn’t have to drive far to get there). We play pretty good in bowl game and shut out a weaker team.

    Post PR, year 3, has turned into a disaster. We squeak one out against the division II ASU team. Gary Hahn makes us laughing stock when he says that’s the first win over a #1 team in CF history. Akron comes in and we’re totally not ready and hang an L. We totally lose our mind against Southern Miss. Amato sticks his foot, no, make that both legs, in his mouth crying about partial qualifiers. In comes Evans and looks like the next coming of PR. One more miracle W over BC. Pretty solid win over what has turned out to be a bad FSU team. We feel good. Evans, bless his heart, then comes down to earth and becomes the kid that would have been a walk on if we had signed Brent Schafer. Our team is just not ready to play. The stupid mistakes and penalties come back. We’re not disciplined at all. Our kids are celebrating a big hit on a play…but the play is for 15 yards and a first down for the opponent, who has only beat a 1AA team this year, and is spanking our little fannies 10-0 at the time – and essentially DOMINATING us. Yeah, we’re close in each game, but this ain’t horseshoes. It’s hand grenades, and we pulled the pin, but didn’t throw the damn thing.

    There’s a trend here, and it’s not a good one. There is no leadership. There is no creativity. There’s no hope.

    Where would you rather be?

    1. Alum coach who is a good guy, but isn’t getting it done, but Butch Davis is on the horizon.

    2. Alum coach who is a good guy, but…

    Mike O’Cain is a good guy. It was time for him to move on.
    Herb Sendek is a good guy. It was time for him to move on.
    Chuck Amato is a good guy. You do the math…

  8. class of 74 11/19/2006 at 11:29 AM #

    It will take one of two things to remove Chuck from his position: #1. Four to six phone calls from a group of very prominent WPC members; or #2. The jaws of life and an EMS squad.

    I don’t forsee CTC ever quitting as long as he has a handsome contract, but the critical mass of upset WPC members they talk about is finally there I believe. Oh and I loved the spin CTC was using in the post game interview when asked about 0 for the past three and he said no I’m 3W’s and 4L’s (record against UNC). In either case, Chuck you aren’t pulling your weight against some of your main rival’s historically worst seasons.

  9. Mr O 11/19/2006 at 11:29 AM #

    Assuming that Cowher is a possibility, do you give Amato one more year if Cowher truly wants a year off?

  10. class of 74 11/19/2006 at 11:37 AM #

    For those who say we can’t let CTC go due to his prowess as a recruiter let me remind you of this. CTC + MOC”s players = decent football records. While
    Pure CTC recruiting classes = mediocre to lousy football records. And the further we go down this road the worse the trend is becoming!

  11. one00_proof 11/19/2006 at 11:45 AM #

    Mr O, it’s very doubtful that if Cowher was that interested in the HC job that he’d force State to wait a year on him just because he wants a year off with the program falling apart at the seams. It’s basically like having a sick kid, but waiting a week to give him the medicine he needs because you have to go on vacation. With that said however, assuming that hypothetical situation does arise, I still doubt it because a lot can happen in a year and if Cowher ends up burning State after that year, there will be a LOT of unhappy fans. Regardless, I expect all Cowher speculation will be put to a rest by next year unless we go through a debacle like this again.

  12. class of 74 11/19/2006 at 11:46 AM #

    ^Too many other good options to wait for a pro coach with no college experience! ie. Paul Johnson.

  13. Lee Fowler 11/19/2006 at 11:49 AM #

    What’s everybody worked up in a lather about? I’m sure there are Ohio State fans who don’t like Jim Tressel. Probably the lunatic fringe…

  14. Mr O 11/19/2006 at 11:52 AM #

    Class of 74: MOC hadn’t recruited a lot of depth at that point, but he had a some solid talent in his last couple of classes. He got Levar Fisher, Burnette, Cotchery, B. Peterson, A. Wilson, B. Williams, S. Locklear, W. Wright, Ray Rob, K Rob and P Rivers.

    Amato was able to win those years because of pretty solid talent.

  15. Titus 11/19/2006 at 11:55 AM #

    Mr O…greetings from Atlanta. That would be a plausible scenario but assuming Cowher is locked up who? Jumbo Fischer; Norm Chow, Will Muschamp?

  16. class of 74 11/19/2006 at 11:59 AM #

    Mr. O:
    CTC himself said we were fat, slow and only a few of us would make the depth chart at FSU when he arrived but he would change all of that. Well you tell me, do you approve of the changes his “vision” has brought us?

  17. Running Wolf 11/19/2006 at 12:04 PM #

    What is the real story on CTC’s current contract and his assistant coaches…I have heard all sorts of amounts and times…who has the exact layout of the contracts and costs? In otherwords, what is it really going to cost to move this crew to the curb?

  18. Mr O 11/19/2006 at 12:04 PM #

    Class of 74: CTC said that and he lowered short-term expectations. Those players may have been out of shape, but there was some talent to get in shape when he came in and that is how he was able to win early.

    I definitely don’t approve. I think the window of opportunity has shut on Amato’s tenure and I don’t see him being capable of turning it around.

  19. class of 74 11/19/2006 at 12:10 PM #

    ^agree totally, his opportunity has passed. I just hop the admin agrees with our thoughts.

  20. NCSUDude17 11/19/2006 at 12:22 PM #

    ^He won’t, sadly that is just the way it is, I just doubt that Lee Fowler has the stones to make the change. I don’t claim to know, I just have a strong feeling about this.

  21. packer74 11/19/2006 at 12:26 PM #

    Three straight losses to UNC. Three straight losing ACC seasons. “Excellent talent”? Maybe, but repeated, undisciplined, stupid mistakes reflects on the coaches as well as the player. It’s time to change the direction NOW.

  22. Pack1998 11/19/2006 at 12:27 PM #

    I speak for all when I say I love Chuck and really wish we had more success under him. Something is just not right with Chuck’s program and it only seems repetitive to say we’ll be better next year. Well said, the”window of opportunity” has shut.

    Bottom line is that he has had a shot at building a great program and it just has not happened, after 7 years we should never be finishing last in our division of the ACC.

    One name to think about – JIM DONNAN – NC State Alum, overachieving QB of the best State team ever, OC at Oklamhoma under Switzer, Div 1-AA national championships with Marshall, HC at Georgia and recruited the studs Richt won with . . . Burlington native. Why not? I don’t think he got a fair shot at Georgia IMO.

  23. LRM 11/19/2006 at 12:30 PM #

    I’m bothered that we — State fans — even give a rat’s ass what Tudor or anyone else in the media’s opinion is. Half the time YOU PEOPLE (sorry, couldn’t resist ya’ll…but I’m one too) call Tudor an idiot, so we don’t get to use his opinion as a reference when it fits our agenda.

    My point is this: Why should it even matter if anyone outside our family thinks Chuck should or shouldn’t go? Lee Fowler represents US — paying WPC members — as the AD; he doesn’t represent the media. The problem around here is that no one in the athletic administration cares what the average State fan thinks because our bank accounts aren’t big enough.

    Maybe I’m a cynic. Or maybe I’m just tired of losing to Carolina and being told I’m not patient enough.

  24. tractor57 11/19/2006 at 12:33 PM #

    At the beginning of the football season I thought Chuck deserved one more year to demonstrate some progress. Well we are now at the end of that year and I see no progress. Chuch has done some very good things for the program but I think he has risen to his level – and that level is not where I want the program. Thanks Chuck for the memories (good and bad) and the progress now it’s time to “kick it up a notch”.

  25. tractor57 11/19/2006 at 12:37 PM #

    And to “kick it up a notch” maybe time to reorganize the athletics administration as well – the performance of the administration is worse than the performance of the football program.

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