Referee Comparison by Conference

While watching the NCSU vs VT game I noticed there was a lack of flow to the game because of the constant whistles and foul calls. I have been watching a lot of non-ACC games (because ACC basketball is so ugly) and have noticed officials in those games seem to let them play and only call fouls when a distinct advantage is gained. This apparent discrepancy made me wonder if this is driven by the Atlantic Coast Cabal (acknowledgement to wolfpup76 for this rather clever moniker) or just pure chance.

The only way I could determine if there are differences between conferences was to look at officials that ref games in several leagues. So I looked at the top 30 officials (by number of games) and compared the ACC to the Big Ten, SEC and Big East to see if a ref changes the way he calls the game based on which conference he is in.

Here is a chart of what I found:

The far right column is the average Fouls Per Game (FPG) of the entire sample population or at least as close as I could come to it. What this shows is the ACC has more fouls called per game than the other three conferences. I could not determine a way to look at other calls (such as travel) so this is an inexact comparison but it does show there is a difference in how the game is called in the ACC.

Maybe the referees that do not call ACC games are slanting the statistics. So I removed any referees that had not called any ACC games. 

This shows even more of a spread. But what does this mean? Is it even important? In my opinion this is a contributor to the decline in ACC attendance”. It slows the game, more players are in foul trouble and the referees have a bigger impact on the game. I do not know if the ACC directs the refs calling ACC games to call it closer or if it based on the play in the league but there is definitely a difference.

About Rick

1992 and 2002 graduate from NCSU. Born and raised an NCSU fan. I remember the good ol' days and they weren't in the last 20 years.

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49 Responses to Referee Comparison by Conference

  1. TheAliasTroll 03/07/2012 at 12:07 PM #

    There is certainly a noticeable difference when watching ACC games and non-ACC games and I agree that the more fouls called slows the game down and makes the games less exciting. It seems there are a lot more off the ball fouls being called in the ACC as well but I guess there is no way to look at those numbers.

    Also I don’t recall this being noticeable in years past. It’d be interesting to see the numbers in prior years.

  2. Packfan28 03/07/2012 at 12:09 PM #

    Sunday I watched Kentucky play Florida. It was a fun game to watch, and one of the main reasons is the refs actually let them play basketball. The game had a tremendous flow, and the stripes only got involved when they had to. Later in the day I watched the VT / State game. Ugh, what a difference. Dribble, dribble, whistle. Dribble, dribble, whistle. After one of the many early fouls I saw Gott throw up his hands and say “what is going on?”

    I love watching college basketball. But some of these referees are taking so much joy out of it, I watch less than I used to.

  3. Wufpacker 03/07/2012 at 12:19 PM #

    Interesting to say the least. Agree with Alias Troll that a larger sample size including previous years would be of interest. Also would be interesting to look at avg game scores, or better yet, avg possessions, thus coming up with a number of fouls per possession.

    My impression is that this would actually make the number more glaring, but you never know. Admittedly, I’m basing that on my personal (and likely somewhat biased) opinion that ACC bball has become slow and ugly.

  4. Pack85EE 03/07/2012 at 1:05 PM #

    If we assume the most likely: The refs call all games in all conferences as they see them – the same in all cases, then it indicates poor coaching or inferior players. Carolina does not get many calls. I don’t think Duke does either. So, maybe they are just better than the rest of us. Or, you guys can start slamming me and the ACC and raise up a conspiricy theory again. It’s kind of like a heavy girl asking a skinny girl how she stay’s so small. “Maybe I just eat less than you”. ZING. Here’s my thought. NCSU helped create the ACC. In 1987 we had 10 chanpionships, UNC had 10, Duke had 7. How about we get our butt in gear, with Gottfried as coach, get better players, better coached, start winning again, and the calls will then seem to go our way. Let’s win chanpionships. Running to the SEC, does not make us play better. It’s the same damn officials guys!

  5. Lumpy 03/07/2012 at 1:44 PM #

    I noticed this last year during the ACCT. Actually a friend of mine did. We were at a bar. I’m watching the NC State/Maryland game and He’s watching the Tennessee/Arkansas game. About ten minutes into his game he asked if something was wrong with the clock in my game, because every time he looked at the screen the refs were over at the scorers table and everyone was standing around. Meanwhile the Tenn/Ark game ran uninterrupted for 2 to 3 minutes at a time before a foul or charge was called. Despite our game starting at 7 and his at 7:30 they both finished around the same time.

    I noticed In other conferences, like the Big 10 and the Big East, that their refs swallow the whistle for “flops”. Sort of sending the message that if you are gonna act like you got shot and hit the deck despite not being in position and not being run over, feel free. It’s slowing you down and allowing the other team to get back and set up defensively. Nice try. The ACC refs always blow the whistle. Always. Not sure what the breakdown is between blocking and charging, but I rarely see a no call in this situation. Which is unfortunate because along with the no calls, I also see it attempted less by the players in other conferences. This leads to more back and forth transition and actual defense being played under the basket instead of trying to get in position to fake a foul. Thus you win some down low, and you lose some, but play continues. It’s much easier to watch.
    In the ACC players seem to set up for the charge on every possession where someone drives to the basket. I’ve noticed that the ACC guards often-compared to other games I watch from other conferences- try to set their feet and draw a charge on the perimeter. This used to be unheard of, as any decent guard would blow right by you for an easy layup. But now, if a guy like Austin Rivers gets beat off the dribble and is behind a step? He just flops and the whistle blows. Again he’s as likely to get the foul call as he is to draw the charge. But not a bad gamble, when you know that play will stop and they guy you’re guarding wont get in the lane.
    It’s also the reason that most ACC games end up with both teams in the double bonus at the end turning any close game into foul shooting contests.

  6. Whiteshoes67 03/07/2012 at 1:55 PM #

    No surprise here. If anything, I’m shocked that the disparity isn’t greather. Over the last decade or so, the ACC has become more of a “finesse” league. I think the conference would tell you this was intentional. They don’t think of it as finesse, but the style of play definitely leans in that direction. How many good big man have come out of the ACC in recent memory?

    I think the conference sold this to themselves, at least, as “pure” basketball. They told themselves that what you got in the ACC was a cleaner version of basketball, not the the slugfests like you saw in the Big East, Big 10, and other conferences. Now, one could ask, what caused the change? And did it favor the blues? I’m not buying that the zebras favor the blues on a game-to-game basis or some kinda of insitutionalized conference conspiracy. But you may well be able to convince me that the blues took the lead in pushing for a more “finesse” style of play. If I had to guess why, I’d point back to the Rick Barnes. His Clemson teams were among the most physical the ACC had ever seen.

  7. TheAliasTroll 03/07/2012 at 1:58 PM #

    “Carolina does not get many calls. I don’t think Duke does either. So, maybe they are just better than the rest of us.”

    This certainly sounds plausible at first glance, but if you were to compare UNC to other teams in the top #25 they are still WAY ahead of those teams in terms of fouls called.

    What if I told you that UNC is ranked #331st in the entire country for most fouls commited while running an uptempo offense which in turn creates many more possessions than the average team. And this same trend occurs year after year after year. Wouldn’t you find that incredibly stunning? It’s getting beyond being an anomaly, wouldn’t you say?

    Here, take a look for yourself: http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/north-carolina/team_stats?season=2011-2012&current_chart=fouls&type=all#chart

    If you still think there’s no bias, I’d like to hear it explained. Please help me to understand.

  8. Howler 03/07/2012 at 2:04 PM #

    With refs calling games in multiple conferences, I just don’t think it makes sense to think that they are changing the way they call a game based on what conference they are in on a particular night. It would be really hard to make one’s self adapt to different officiating “styles” through a season. I do think refs adapt during a game if they think players are getting chippy with each other, and then the whistles come a little quicker. I also think that we get a taste of what happens in the NBA, where a player’s reputation precedes him. Some guys get the star treatment, and others, like poor Richard Howell, have their excessive foul tendencies exacerbated by refs who are already looking for them to foul.

  9. Rick 03/07/2012 at 2:12 PM #

    “I don’t think Duke does either. ”
    And like the rest of your post, you would be wrong. I love the “I have no research or stats to back anything I say up, but you are a conspiracy nut” response. I think stillapackfan has an alias.

  10. Rick 03/07/2012 at 2:13 PM #

    “With refs calling games in multiple conferences, I just don’t think it makes sense to think that they are changing the way they call a game based on what conference they are in on a particular night.”

    But the number of fouls says they are. 3-4 FPG is a huge discrepancy in this situation.
    I did this research because of the huge difference in the flow of the game I have seen this season.

  11. Rick 03/07/2012 at 2:15 PM #

    “What if I told you that UNC is ranked #331st in the entire country for most fouls commited while running an uptempo offense which in turn creates many more possessions than the average team.”

    Further more, they are top ten in blocks and offensive rebounds. So they play more and more aggressively and yet are never called for fouls.

  12. ppack3 03/07/2012 at 2:28 PM #

    As far back as I can remember, the ACC has been known as a “finesse league,” and the Big East has been viewed as a tougher league with a banging style of play.

    Whether the refs are the chicken or the egg in this situation, doesn’t matter. The Big East games are called looser, and they have been for a long time. The ACC games are called pretty tight, and they have been for a long time.

    I think that Syracuse is going to run into a problem, here. Can you imagine the adjustment that’s going to have to be made when they play UNC or Duke?

  13. StateMan 03/07/2012 at 2:29 PM #

    Yall have it all wrong, carolina plays aggressive defense without fouling….says the head of officiating. What a boatload of crap. I hate watching bball because officiating had such a big role. Cant wait for football!!

  14. StateMan 03/07/2012 at 2:36 PM #

    I have never seen a referee that i didnt despise. Back in the day at bragaw dorm, we had a hitlist, pretty sure Hess and a few more made the list. Haha

  15. LifeLongWolf 03/07/2012 at 2:37 PM #

    The problem isn’t that they call too many fouls, it’s that they call too few. Blues get away with the basketball version of rape every ACC game.

  16. TheAliasTroll 03/07/2012 at 2:40 PM #

    Also a thing to note is that Carolina is skewing the total fouls for the conference downward. If you take them out of the equation then the Fouls/Game numbers go up even more for the conference.

  17. PackerInRussia 03/07/2012 at 2:45 PM #

    There was one ACC game I recall (actually two) watching recently where it seemed the refs “let ’em play.” I didn’t watch all of it, but at least in the beginning, it seemed like the UNC-Duke game was able to be played without a lot of fouls being called despite a lot of contact – contact that would almost certainly be whistled in other games. The other game I suddenly mentioned was the State-UNC game in Raleigh. I thought that one was called pretty well. Maybe it helped that that NCAA ref guy was there.

  18. blpack 03/07/2012 at 3:01 PM #

    Refs making sure WV gets a nice send off from the Big East.

  19. Pack85EE 03/07/2012 at 3:07 PM #

    Rick, I’m confused by your response. Which part of my post is wrong. That Duke does not get may fouls called againt them. I thought we all agreed to that. That’s part of the conspiracy, right? My point is, maybe the best teams tend to foul the least. And there is bound to be some truth to that in that the less talented team has to scrap harder. We just need to get better.
    And no I don’t have time to research stats. I’m relying great regulars with StateFans Nations. But I am looking at the stats provided with a wary eye. Interpret the stats to what makes the most sense.
    Yes a conspiracy is a little out there. But I will agree, that unitentional bias, or even intentional bias on the part of a referee probably exists for the blues. But I think when the Wolfpack rises to the top, they will get the same kind of calls. Just like the best players get the calls. We just have to get there. Sorry, I have no additional alias the this. I just an old NCSU engineer longing for the glory days to return. But I do love the ACC.

  20. StateMan 03/07/2012 at 3:09 PM #

    Are the foul stats from conference games only or are OOC games included too?

  21. TheAliasTroll 03/07/2012 at 3:16 PM #

    “My point is, maybe the best teams tend to foul the least.”

    We got your point. And unfortunately it’s not correct. The best teams do not foul the least and that can be proven by looking at the data.

    “But I am looking at the stats provided with a wary eye.”

    Here’s the problem. You’re opinion doesn’t match the statistics that prove otherwise, so you choose to believe there’s some kind of Worldcom job going on? Who’s the conspiracy theorist? And you say you are an engineer? Are you serious?

  22. Howler 03/07/2012 at 3:29 PM #

    I am thinking it must have more to do with style of play by conference. I am not doubting your numbers, but I can’t wrap my mind around the conclusion that the same refs are changing how they call games based on what venue they happen to find themselves in. Are you saying they are intentionally doing it, or do you think there is some subconscious factor at work? Is it due to all of the extra fouls called on the opponents of the blues? If so, could you remove those games from the calculation and see if that puts the ACC in line with the other conferences for fouls per game?

  23. YogiNC 03/07/2012 at 3:35 PM #

    I wonder what would be the effects if you threw out any of UNC games since clearly their low foul count would skew the numbers.

  24. Rick 03/07/2012 at 3:37 PM #

    “That Duke does not get may fouls called againt them. I thought we all agreed to that. That’s part of the conspiracy, right?”

    You are wrong. Duke gets called for more FPG than 9 other schools.

    This is what kills me. People make statements based on wrong information and act like they are right.

    “That’s part of the conspiracy, right?”
    Typical knee jerk response. I disagree with them so they must be conspiracy theorists.

  25. Wufpacker 03/07/2012 at 4:00 PM #

    If the officials study tendencies (as Clougherty so eloquently has told us they do), I presume this is to prepare themselves for HOW they are going to call a certain game.

    Why is it so hard to believe that they may or may not prepare differently -or said another way, prepare a different gameplan- for games from different conferences? Doesn’t seem like a huge leap from where I’m sitting.

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