NC State Only ACC School Penalized by APR

Last week’s report where the NCAA honored 712 different teams throughout the country laid the groundwork for today’s broad release of the NCAA’s Academic Progress Report that effectively takes a scholarship away from NC State’s wrestling program.

You can access NC State’s specific report by clicking here.

* NC State is the ONLY school in the entire Athletics Coast Conference to be penalized with the loss of a scholarship in any sport.

* Additionally, N.C. State joins East Carolina, Gardner-Webb and UNC-Greensboro as the only schools in North Carolina penalized for failing to meet the NCAA standard for academic progress.

* NC State’s football and basketball APR’s are each ranked last among the Wolfpack’s Big Four rivals (Wake, Duke, UNC-CH).

On the positive side:

* Coach Sidney Lowe has worked hard to significantly improve the basketball program’s APR in a very short amount of time. Despite losing Andrew Brackman and Cedric Simmons to professional careers and losing a bench player to a career-ending health condition, the Wolfpack’s Basketball APR ranks in the top 80th to 90th percentile amongst all NCAA Basketball programs.

Football is an acceptable 50th to 60th percentile despite being impacted by the high turnover that plagued Chuck Amato’s tenure in Raleigh. We expect Coach O’Brien’s impact to gradually move football’s APR into even higher territory in the future.

Expect reactions to this will be ‘split down party lines’ within NC State’s fan base.

* The ‘status-quo brigade’ will be ‘fine’ with State’s performance claiming that it is ‘good enough’ while downplaying its importance as ‘not that big of a deal’. For example, the poster known as ‘modlin’ on Pack Pride’s message boards says, “Aside from that, our scores look pretty good.” Translation – “Aside from (the fact that we could be consider performing the worst in the entire ACC and got penalized with the likes of ECU and Gardner-Ebb), our scores look pretty good.”

* The ‘wish we were better brigade’ will surely note the deficiencies in NC State’s performance when compared to others.

For those that are interested, this link will take you to all of the NCAA’s penalties which include the following:

Baseball: LSU, UNC-G, Tennessee

Football: Kansas, Washington State

Men’s Basketball: ECU, Kansas State, Purdue, Seton Hall, UAB, Colorado, UNC-G, South Carolina, Tennessee,

Wrestling: NC State, WVU, VMI

Other related entries on the APR:
-N&O:NCAA penalizes ECU basketball team

2007 SFN Entry on APR Report

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29 Responses to NC State Only ACC School Penalized by APR

  1. Daily Update 05/06/2008 at 8:59 AM #

    Hopefully this will be good news. Basketball might have taken a hit with Cedric Simmons and Andrew Brackman leaving early(not to mention the team being short on players).

    I understand you get 1 point for an athlete remaining eligible and 1 point for retention.

    In trying to figure out exactly how this works, let’s look at basketball. In terms of the point for retention, is it a point for retaining a player for the current semester or is a point for retaining them for the upcoming semester?

    I am trying to understand how a player going pro hurts programs.

    Does anyone understand this enough to show how points are rewarded using a basketball player who goes pro that doesn’t finish the Spring semester?

  2. PeeDub 05/06/2008 at 10:41 AM #

    I’m not sure how Brackman leaving early can hurt us, at least in basketball. He was still in school for a year under scholarship after leaving the basketball team. If anything, he’d hurt us in baseball, not basketball.

  3. Ed89 05/06/2008 at 10:46 AM #

    ^^^only three schools didn’t have a single team make the list (NC State, VPI, and Clemson).

    While I’m not sure how directly this is related, but all 3 are Technical schools. If you add Ga. Tech to that list, you get the 4 Technical schools in the ACC. A sad reality is that “most” athletes (esp. revenue sports) do not end up majoring in a technical field. Truthfully, those are the main 4 schools I looked at in H.S.(at the time VPI was not in the ACC.)

  4. MatSci94 05/06/2008 at 10:52 AM #

    As I understand it, which is hard because the NCAA apparently has *no* clear documentation of how the numbers are calculated, each athlete can earn up to two points per semester. One point is for being academicly elligible, and the second point is for returning to the school.

    from http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_I/academic_performance/explanationsheet.pdf

    which is not linked anywhere in the academic reform/ APR seciton of the NCAA website, and not found using the search tool on the NCAA website.

    I thought I remembered that it was setup so that a transfer didn’t cost you if they left in good standing, but I don’t see that listed anywhere.

  5. WolftownVA81 05/06/2008 at 11:36 AM #

    Does ECU’s APR score/Penalties take Terry Holland out of the running for any in-STATE vacancy that may come up?

  6. RickJ 05/06/2008 at 11:41 AM #

    APR scores, while not perfect, are much better indicators of what is going on currently in an academic sense in any given sport than graduation rates. Current graduation rates for any program would reflect the performance of recruiting classes of around 2001.

    APR scores are reported as a whole number that is the raw APR score multiplied by one thousand. For example, a raw APR of .925 becomes a final APR score of 925.

    A real simplified example – think of 1 athlete in any sport that starts as a freshman in the fall semester. The school gets 1 point if he completes that semester in good standing and another point for returning for the second semester. He is 2 for 2 and thus his raw APR score is 1.0. You multiply this by 1,000 and get an APR of 1,000, a perfect score. If he doesn’t return for the second semester for any reason he is 1 or 2 and has a raw APR score of .5 and a final APR of 500. The team score comes from adding up all of the figures.

    Look at JJ Hickson as an example. It is my understanding that when he was recruited, Lowe said he did not have a problem with his leaving for the NBA after his freshman year but that he wanted JJ’s word that he would finish his second semester. By all indications, JJ has done so and hopefully will finish this semester in good academic standing. If he leaves for the NBA, we will lose the point for not returning for the fall semester but we would get the point for this semester. The real APR killer is an athlete that doesn’t complete the semester in good standing and doesn’t return the next semester, thereby costing the team APR score 2 points.

    It is my understanding that we have only one program (not basketball or football) that will miss the 925 target. We will see.

  7. choppack1 05/06/2008 at 12:04 PM #

    RickJ – Is it wrestling? They had a pretty low APR last time around.

    wolftown – The APR AND Holland’s hand-picking, then firing Ricky Stokes should raise some eyebrowes. He hasn’t exactly knocked the cover off the ball since coming to ECU.

  8. RickJ 05/06/2008 at 12:24 PM #

    ^choppack1 – you are correct.

  9. choppack1 05/06/2008 at 12:46 PM #

    That would suck, they’ve actually won a title recently.

  10. choppack1 05/06/2008 at 2:06 PM #

    Report is out:

    web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2007/490_2007_apr.pdf

  11. Pack84 05/06/2008 at 2:20 PM #

    Well – it’s now official. We’re the ONLY SCHOOL IN THE ACC to be penalized with the loss of a scholly due to the APR! Thanks to Lee Fowler for his continued EXCELLENT work!

  12. choppack1 05/06/2008 at 2:27 PM #

    Good catch Pack84A. You need to stop being so negative. Lee, Oblinger and the WPC admin don’t like it when you bring up this stuff.

    As for the fact that you bring up that will no doubt be trumpeted in regional media for the next few days – well, that’s just the cost of doing bidness.

  13. 66pack 05/06/2008 at 2:30 PM #

    ed 89 what does “technical school” have to do with anything uva,unc,duke ,bc and wake all have higher admission standards for the general student population than state.half the freshman class at state would not be admitted to unc.

  14. Bynum State Fan 05/06/2008 at 2:44 PM #

    The answer to every thread needs to be we need to get back to our winning ways over here at NCState University.

  15. RickJ 05/06/2008 at 2:52 PM #

    Clemson has a 920 APR for Men’s Basketball and Maryland logs a 906 but they avoid any penalty. How does this work?

    SFN: Don’t quote me on this…but, aren’t the penalties effectively a result of more than one year of ratings? So, if you are trending down you don’t necessarily get penalized?

  16. packbackr04 05/06/2008 at 3:19 PM #

    what sport do we lose a scholly for?

  17. Ed89 05/06/2008 at 3:23 PM #

    ^^^ed 89 what does “technical school” have to do with anything

    maybe nothing, but maybe alot. The 3 schools were all technical. How many Freshman Engineering majors did you know that ended up dropping out or changing majors (to something lets say, a little easier)? I knew alot!!

    ^^^half the freshman class at state would not be admitted to unc.

    Give me a break…you’re full of it. “half the freshman class at state would not be admitted to unc.” If they played basketball they would. Get real.

    As far as admission standards, what does that have to do with the quality and “type” of education you receive. The “average” grade at UNC is over a “B” — you tell me how tough it is again?? Also, back to the point, how many basketball players do you see majoring in Engineering, and how many any in “undeclared” or “interdisciplinary studies” whatever the hell that means.

  18. MrPlywood 05/06/2008 at 3:25 PM #

    Well no wonder State lost to ECU in basketball – they must have recruited “hoodlums and thugs”. According to Charlie Weis, that’s how you win.

  19. smile102 05/06/2008 at 4:20 PM #

    ed89, Are you saying State athletes take engineering and such, where the drop out rate is normally higher compared to athletes at a non tech school, where athletes take interdis., a disipline where the drop rate is normally lower? So if we look at State athletes majors as freshmen we’ll see a lot of technical majors?

    “Give me a break…you’re full of it. “half the freshman class at state would not be admitted to unc.” If they played basketball they would. Get real.”
    Torry Holt didn’t. So only Bball players at UNC get the same standard as at State?

  20. old13 05/06/2008 at 5:26 PM #

    . . . and the hits just keep on coming!! (Thanks, Foulup et al!)

  21. graywolf 05/06/2008 at 7:44 PM #

    Since Lee Fowler wants to take credit for everything in the athletic department at NC State then he can take credit here as well!
    Maybe just maybe the media crawls all over him for this and HE finally gets some NEGATIVE press…..which he so richly deserves.

  22. turfpack 05/06/2008 at 10:11 PM #

    Let me get this right-We don’t win a championship in any of the major sports in Lee’s tenure
    Talks trash about the fans(lunatics)
    Totally makes a fool of State during the coach search
    Misses meetings with Alumi and WPC
    NOW WE ARE THE ONLY ACC SCHOOL TO GET PENALIZED FOR NOT MAKING THE APR-ARE YOU FRECKING KIDDING ME!!!!
    HOW MUCH MORE DO WE NEED TO PROVE LEE’S WORTHLESS!
    I FRECKING GIVE UP!-ATHLETICS AT N.C.STATE IS A JOKE UNDER LEE.
    If Lee not gone soon,nothing will matter anymore.
    UNBELIEVIBLE -LET’S ASK THE A.D.WHAT HE THINKS(DUH-DOOFUSS).
    ALSO- KEEP HIS ASS AWAY FROM TOB.

  23. redfred2 05/06/2008 at 11:12 PM #

    “* Coach Sidney Lowe has worked hard to significantly improve the basketball program’s APR in a very short amount of time. Despite losing Andrew Brackman and Cedric Simmons to professional careers and losing a bench player to a career-ending health condition, the Wolfpack’s Basketball APR ranks in the top 80th to 90th percentile amongst all NCAA Basketball programs.”

    Um, let me get this straight. Coach Sidney Lowe, is somehow improving the BB program’s APR, and QUICKLY??? But how can that be? I mean, look at the shoes that he had to fill. Those were shoes from none other than the straight arrow, the squeaky clean one, the intellectual one from Carnegie Melon Institute of Higher Learning, Mr Class Act himself.

    Can it be?

    Now you’re trying to tell me that Sidney Lowe is already doing better than ” ” was doing, when measured in a system where academics are used to validate athletics/athletes? Say it ain’t so.

    Surprising? I think not.

    I sure do miss ol’ ” ” though, and I know the players do too. Only a true, CLASS ACT like him, could pull the wool over so people’s many eyes, and still have people defending him to this very day.

  24. RickJ 05/07/2008 at 7:49 AM #

    There is one interesting penalty imposed in this APR report that I am sure brought a smile to Chuck Amato’s face – The most penalized team in the NCAA was Akron football with a loss of 9 scholarships.

  25. gopack968 05/07/2008 at 8:17 AM #

    “technical school” reality check:

    The old adage that it is harder to get into UNC and harder to stay at State is true. State undergrads have to take more math and science than their peers at UNC – and not all of them are cupcake courses. Sure there are the “Rocks for Jocks” and “Pythagoras for Poets” type classes, and I assume that the athletic department is good at scheduling them for athletes. But these don’t cover all of the requirements.

    I just put two children through State in non-technical programs and they both had to take very hard math courses. My daughter took so much science she wound up with a BS… in Sociology! At UNC you can get through an undergrad program in the humanities with hardly any math.

    Does this explain this embarrassing APR outcome? Not hardly. Someone has some explaining to do, someone should be held accountable. But do not for one second think that classwork is somehow easier at State, or that students at UNC and other “non-tech” schools somehow are smarter or take harder classes.

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