Technician: Passing Out Not An Option

See our previous entry with commentary on this topic by clicking here.

As the N.C. State football team was falling to Clemson Saturday, there was an even bigger problem in the stands — dehydration. This problem was not confined to just a few people. Approximately 100 people had to be treated, with six having to be transported to Rex Hospital. Luckily, there were no serious injuries, but next time temperatures rise, the situation could be different.

Students and other Pack fans sitting in Carter-Finley had few options to cool off and hydrate on Saturday afternoon. The lone option was to buy a $3 bottle of water, which all sold out by halftime. There weren’t any other mechanisms by which fans could cool themselves off or hydrate until bottled water was replenished at the end of the third quarter. These were factors that caused fans to become dehydrated, suffer heat stroke or exhaustion.

Those that come to Carter-Finley should be provided with options of how to keep cool and hydrated. The health of those who attend games must be a high priority to game operations officials.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

'07 Football General NC State Administration

80 Responses to Technician: Passing Out Not An Option

  1. old13 09/24/2007 at 11:56 AM #

    Just another (in a long line of ) indicator(s) that the NCSU administration, from Oblinger down, has not a clue of how to run big-time sports. Couple that with ACC officiating, the product and fun is gone from C-F IMO!

  2. stathis borans 09/24/2007 at 12:05 PM #

    I am a BC grad. I moved to Morrisville a couple of years ago (I now live in Charlotte).

    While in Morrisville, I became interested in NC State football, primarily because of the admirable enthusiasm of the fan base. It is a pity (but entertaining) that the fans aren’t a bit more knowledgeable about football in general or BC in particular.

    I won’t get into TOB bashing, but I have especially enjoyed the fictional back-story about TOB you guys have invented (disciplined teams, no sloppiness, ARE YOU KIDDING!?!?).

    But it was the following quote that I found so irrational and offensive that I felt compelled to respond. If my response intrudes on the Bizzaro-Universe dogmatic reality typically presented here, please delete it. But if, you have to courage to at least consider reading a contrary opinion, please allow this post to remain.

    First the quote from your posting that I take issue with:

    “Wake Forest, Boston College and (to a lesser degree Appalachian State) do just fine going out and getting the sloppy seconds that the UNCs and NC States of the world passed over. “

    Um, I don’t know how to tell you this, but BC competes with the likes of USC and Ohio State for Offensive Linemen, not the likes of lesser known schools like UNC or NCSU. BC has been called “O-Line U” for decades due to the numbers of linemen they’ve put into the NFL. The Ohio State recruiter might say “Play for us and you might contend for a national championship”, a very persuasive argument indeed. The BC recruiter says “How would you like to play in the NFL someday?”, and produces a scrapbook of BC linemen in the pros.

    And not to venture into your many TOB delusions, but he wasn’t the one to first bring decent linemen (or other football talent) to BC.

    The more rankling implication in you statement is that UNC or NCSU could ever be seen as a more appealing or prestigious destination than BC to a potential football recruit (ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!)

    One of the delusions about BC I often see repeated on this site is that BC is a little school that somehow has been able to compete with the Big Boys. This incorrect statement is often employed as a rationale for the hiring of TOB, as in “He took this pathetic little team and brought them as far as he could given the quality of the personnel”.

    Aside: I won’t get into the reality of TOB (you’ll find out), and it is true that he resurrected a program that suffered mightily under Dan Henning (much is made of a gambling scandal – the real scandal was the on-field performance). But be advised that in the decade before TOB, BC had a #5 finish and a #13 finish. TOB’s highest ranking was #18. Yes, the BC talent pool has marginally increased over the last twenty years, but the individual responsible for that (and there is one) was not TOB.

    Much is made of BC being a small school. Much is made of academic strictures. And clearly you people haven’t really followed BC in the past (that’s understandable). But when BC entered the ACC, many of you immediately jumped to the conclusion that BC is a “cute little third-tier football school” like Duke or Wake.

    The historic reality is that BC has always had better players (on average) that most ACC teams. There have, of course, been repeated and recurring single-season exceptions where ACC schools have had better talent, sometimes much better talent (including almost every ACC team except Duke). And no, BC historically has not been able to compete for talent with the likes of VT, FSU, or Miami (which are recent additions to the ACC, by the way).

    Here is why BC routinely gets more talented personnel than most other ACC schools (with the exception of the ACC Thug programs):

    1. Recent Success of Football Program

    Here are the national rankings for UNC, BC, and NCSU from 1980-2006. I could only find the Top 20 results for 1980 – 1988. From 1988 – 2006, I found the Top 25 rankings.

    Total Final Poll Appearances 1980 -2006:

    UNC: 8 – Top 10: 4 Highest Rank: 6
    BC: 10 – Top 10: 1 Highest Rank: 5
    NC State: 3 – Top 10: 0 Highest Rank: 12

    If this in incorrect, please advise.

    None of these teams are “Big Time” NCAA football programs. And surprisingly (at least to me), of the three schools discussed, UNC gets the nod for having the greatest all-time success….

    …. but not recently. Not now. Now it’s BC.

    2. National Exposure and Recognition

    I assert – and I have no data to back this up other than empirical experience – that in terms of national exposure, BC probably has been in more nationally-televised games than UNC and NCSU combined – maybe by a factor of 5 (in other words, for every time either UNC or NCSU has been televised nationally, BC gets televised nationally 5 times). That of course does not imply that BC is a better team, only a better-known team, and it’s due to the fact that is from a market that is desirable to advertisers. And nationally televised go right into the heartland of America.

    Aside: For those of you who point out (correctly) that BC is not a big draw in the Boston area, be advised that BC only has to get a 10% TV market share (which it does frequently) to exceed 100% of the potential Raleigh market share. That’s why marketers are still interested in BC despite lukewarm interest. That’s why Swofford wanted BC. And – far or unfair – that’s why BC gets on national TV so much.

    The same goes for national recognition. Again, none of these programs are remotely considered nationally as football powers. If you were to ask people in Dubuque IA or Seattle WA their impressions of these three football programs, you’d probably just get a shrug or quizzical look.

    But it might go something like this:

    “Boston College… oh yeah, Doug Flutie”.

    “UNC… yeah the… Tarheels – but they play basketball not football”.

    “NC State… well let’s see… NC stands for North Carolina… and State… it’s a state school in North Carolina”.

    (Sorry if I am being mean-spirited – the truth can hurt).

    The point of all this is that BC is a better known FOOTBALL school -maybe not in basketball, maybe not along Tobacco Road – but nationally. And as a result, it’s admittedly feeble clout with potential football recruits far exceeds UNC and NCSU.

    Aside: This may astonish you, but when the plan was announced for BC (and Miami and VT) to move to the ACC, most people in the NE were saying “why would anyone want to move from a decent football and basketball conference to a conference that only plays basketball?!?!”. So you see, regional parochialism exists everywhere. At least I recognize it.

    3. O-Line U

    (See above). There are teams that have reached a “critical mass” of success (think USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.). These are schools whose recruiting calling-card are the school’s reputation of success. BC is not one of these schools – except when it comes to O-linemen, the vary topic which initiated this response. As a result, BC always has at least a competitive if not spectacular offense.

    4. Regional Recruiting Base

    This one may surprise you. You will laugh at this because it runs counter to everything you believe.

    The NE is clearly not a hotbed of high-school talent when compared almost anywhere else in the country. But that doesn’t mean this region doesn’t produce some high-quality talent. And being the only game in town, BC’s historic “home recruiting grounds” have included all the NE states, NY, NJ, and eastern PA. That’s a pretty big recruiting area. And there are plenty of kids (or maybe it’s their parents) who want to stay relatively close to home. Matt Ryan, from eastern PA, said he picked BC because it was the closest competitive and academically-acceptable program to his home. The resurgence (or maybe just “Surgence?”) of Rutgers will hurt recruiting.

    5. Balance of Academics and Football

    Believe it or not, for every kid who grew up in Mississippi pulling tree trunks up with his bare hands, there are athletic kids who actually care about academics. No, BC is not an Ivy League school. No, BC is not a football powerhouse. Yes, there are dozens of schools that offer both decent academics and a decent football team. But with the exception of Notre Dame, I don’t know of many programs that do it as successfully.

    6. The Single Most Desirable College Town in the Known Universe.

    I’m sure that Happy Valley and South Bend and Raleigh are really keen places that any college kid would just love to spend his college years. (I actually like Raleigh a lot –don’t get me started about Cary). But there is this town named Boston that is the single most desirable college town in the known universe. Don’t tell me about the cold weather – it is the first choice of destination for every college student on Earth. You do know that, right?

    And some of them can play football.

  3. Girlfriend in a Coma 09/24/2007 at 12:21 PM #

    It’s a pity (but entertaining) that you posted this to the wrong topic. What does the history of BC football (according to you) have to do with hydration issues at the recent NC State v. Clemson game?

  4. MrPerfectionest 09/24/2007 at 12:24 PM #

    Hopefully a mod will move it to the appropriate spot.

    Either way, this guy is going to get ripped to shreds.

  5. primacyone 09/24/2007 at 12:30 PM #

    Hopefully a mod will just delete it to the appropraite spot. I think it would be a waste time to rip this guy to shreds? It was a waste of time reading it.

  6. Pack92 09/24/2007 at 12:34 PM #

    ^Agreed primacyone. He’s already convinced himself he’s an idiot so why argue?

  7. roandaddy 09/24/2007 at 12:35 PM #

    Someone has a lot of time on their hands and can’t find their own board.. but I digress.

    As for water.. I think it was Central Florida that had the same issue last week. They just opened a big, new stadium w/out water fountains.

    I expect this to be a big issue.. is this just money hungry concession people trying to make money by not providing water fountains? Isn’t their a basic societial need to provide basics like water when you put tens of thousands of people in one place? Sort of like having a stadium with no restrooms.

  8. LRM 09/24/2007 at 12:47 PM #

    We were just bad hosts all around. If we’d known Clemson was coming to town, not only could we have had some water for them, we could have put a team on the field for them to play.

  9. tvp 09/24/2007 at 12:48 PM #

    LOL at that guy’s post. How many hours did he waste writing that?

    He has one good point: The person who lumped BC in with Wake and Appalachin re: offensive line recruiting was incorrect. BC typically recruits huge linemen, not smaller, more agile types. However, to say that BC competes with USC and Ohio State with O-line recruits is laughable. Feel free to show me all these BC O-linemen who picked BC over USC and tOSU.

    Here’s the only other good point, though my boy above completely misses its logical implication: BC has had roughly equal success historically with UNC and NC State – none of them are national powers nor have they ever been. Which makes what TOB did there all the more impressive. By your own adminssion, long-winded BC fan, TOB took over a program that had poor on the field performance and was coming off a gambling program, and took them to numerous consecutive bowl victories and among the top 20 in overall wins in college football this decade.

    The rest was more or less BS.

    Here was the most ridiculous part of the diatribe: “The more rankling implication in you statement is that UNC or NCSU could ever be seen as a more appealing or prestigious destination than BC to a potential football recruit (ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!)”

    If UNC/NCSU could not “ever” be more appealing than BC, then why did Amato bring in a top 10 recruiting class? Why is TOB easily outrecruiting BC this year, even given the crappy state of our current team and BC’s very good team? Why didn’t Terrell Manning, Brandon Barnes, and Mike Glennon give BC a sniff? Are you serious, indeed.

    I’m so amused at all the strutting done by the BC fans. You guys have not won jack shit yet this year. You could very easily drop a couple more ACC games and miss out on the conference title game.

  10. packbackr04 09/24/2007 at 12:51 PM #

    you mean that was a football game on SAturday? wow, the way i was brought up we just call that an ole fashioned ass whoopin! i didnt see much in the way of actual football being played on saturday…
    there is not one aspect of the game that we excel in… much less do an adequate job of. we are terrible and will remain as such (i believe) until Fowler is asked to clean his desk… Did he not see what was coming for years to come? or did he just sit in his corner office giving and recieving rimjobs with annabelle, while they reassured all of us “dilussional” fans that it was our fault the teams sucked the past couple years?

  11. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 09/24/2007 at 12:57 PM #

    There are water fountains and probably 200 sinks that produce water. So this statement is untrue:

    weren’t any other mechanisms by which fans could cool themselves off or hydrate until bottled water was replenished at the end of the third quarter.

    I agree things should be handled better but lets not over do it and claim there was no way for people to cool off.

  12. primacyone 09/24/2007 at 12:57 PM #

    I posted on the other thread what I think about the complaint of “not having enough bottled water” from a “health” standpoint. I can’t wait to hear the complaints when the Air Condition is not cold enough in the towers.

    The irony of the Technician headline. “Passing out not an option” For good percentage of the student population – that is the goal. You can tell there is not much of a greek system left! Noon games=Bloody Mary’s and Screwdrivers for breakfast. To go along with the overly dry and fowl smelling bagel (scarcasim).

    I wish I knew how many of the heat victums had alcohol in their bloodstream.

  13. Great Dane Guy 09/24/2007 at 1:04 PM #

    TVP, the sad thing is this is the best BC football team in 20 years, and their fans still don’t go to the games. Apathy indeed.

  14. ncsu96 09/24/2007 at 1:26 PM #

    just an fyi, you can bring a sealed water bottle into Carter Finley.

    (Not excusing anything just passing info along).

  15. Mr O 09/24/2007 at 1:32 PM #

    That was a pretty reasonable post from the BC fan. He supported most of his arguments with facts and offered his opinions in quite a reasonable manner. For that, I think the guy deserves to be treated respectfully here.

    You can’t really argue history with Boston College. Their history is superior to NC State’s in football. Heck, I will even give the guy credit for eloquently pointing out the strengths of BC’s football program. Football coaches can win at a lot of places and each program is going to have its own unique strengths and weaknesses. The success of a program in recruiting usually comes down to how successful the coaches in selling their vision to HS players and their parents. I think it is clear that at some schools that is a whole lot easier to do than others. That is usually because of conference affiliation, location, facilities, natural recruiting base, tradition, academics(strong and not as strong both potentially being positives for a program).

    I think most at NC State would argue that overall our job is easier to produce a winner because of fan support, facilities, lower standards for recruits, and natural recruiting territory.

    But obviously BC fans are going to have a different opinion, so there is no real need to get an argument over it. One things is for certain though – BC has enough strengths to compete for ACC titles with the right coach. They were competing for titles with TOB though they came up a game or two short for the last 4 years. That is obviously going to continue this year because they have one of the best rosters in the league(though a very difficult schedule).

    Jags has a different challenge to TOB when he was hire over a decade ago. TOB was hired to rebuild and re-establish BC’s program and he certainly did that. Jags was hired to take the program to the next level which might actually be a bigger challenge.

  16. Sw0rdf1sh 09/24/2007 at 1:39 PM #

    I stayed hydrated the entire time. I drank water, soda, tea, lemonaide, and refilled water at the water fountain. I didn’t even know there was a water problem until I heard a guy say “We have water now!” behind the counter at one stand.

    It was hot, some people just don’t drink enough and use common sense.

    The problem is if you are staying in your seat the entire time and not seeking shade, drinking water, and cooling down your body temp…..you are going to be in some trouble.

    Oh, and I didn’t even get 1/8th through that BC “theeyecreature” rambling. Talk about bizzaro.

  17. backinpack 09/24/2007 at 1:41 PM #

    I brought an unsealed bottle into the game and filled it at water fountains several times. I also bought a Sprite after finding out they didn’t have any more water. While not the best choice for hydration, it’s certainly better than something with Caffeine. Here I thought (current and former) State students were decent problem solvers….

    I guess we should be ready to hear complaints about running out of hot chocolate during the MD game after thanksgiving.

  18. CarnifeX 09/24/2007 at 1:48 PM #

    NCSU and BC both have 18 active players in the NFL. Point well made…oh wait.

  19. BoKnowsNCS71 09/24/2007 at 2:13 PM #

    I think the BC guy must still be suffering from the sun and heat. That is the only explanation for being so off topic.

    As far as the topic. I tend to agree that people are responsible for their own care when in a hot, sunny, area whether CF or at the beach or anywhere.

    What irks me is that we have sold security out to the lowest bidder and that is making all the fans outraged. And we have venders with no business sense to stock enough product. I don’t know what cut NCSU gets or whether we just rent space — but running out of water or sodas is just poor planning.

  20. Todd 09/24/2007 at 2:45 PM #

    Passing out: the main goal on sat for college kids!

  21. packgrad2000 09/24/2007 at 2:56 PM #

    BC fans (at least about half of them, because not all of them wanted TOB to go) completely miss the point that the reason they are one of the top TWO teams in the ACC this year is because of TOB!!! If the program was in a downward spiral this year (like ours), I’d have my doubts. Even Mike O Cain won 9 games and won the Peach Bowl the year after Dick Sheridan left. Come talk smack in 3 years when we’ll really see what kind of coach/recruiter TOB is.
    And by the way, if BC is so well known and has been on nationally TV 5 times as much as UNC & NCSU combined (a completely factless argument), then why does it have such poor attendance and poor fan support? Why were you playing in places like Charlotte when you finished the regular season with 8 wins?
    Nobody here argues that BC is some crappy little football school. We respect what BC has done. What we laugh at is how you guys think you’re going to do better than 8-9 win seasons consistently with the poor fan support that you have. Your fan support is a better than Duke’s, and probably a step above Wake’s. But that’s it. Even Miami and UNC have better support than BC. Maybe someone can pull up the attendance figures for BC.
    And by the way, I’ve traveled all over the country, especially the West Coast (I spent 5 weeks in Idaho this past summer), and when I tell them I went to N.C. State, they say, “Philip Rivers.”

  22. Todd 09/24/2007 at 2:56 PM #

    Have to say I agree about BC being “o-line u”. Much like Neb used to be “i-back u”, or PSU is “LB U”. Hope TOB can his conection to that to ncsu recruits.

    Guess I agree w those who think JC linemen are an option. After 2-3 years in the weightroom, waiting to play (maybe it should be called the waitroom), do you loose your game skills? Why not bring in guys who have actually been playing the last 2 years.

    Thanks to BC guys screwup we seem to have 2 o-line threads going.

  23. Todd 09/24/2007 at 3:03 PM #

    I must have read BC guys post to fast and missed it, but in 2000s post I see he claims so much more tv coverage… I live in a rural area in SE Minnesota, 30 mile sse of Rochester. Wife and I went for a late lunch at the local little B & G in Chatfield saturday. Who was on tv? UNX/USF. Not to promote UNX, but just saying.

  24. Todd 09/24/2007 at 3:05 PM #

    I believe BC was playing at the same time? I know they were cause saw score updates at bottom of screen.

  25. tvp 09/24/2007 at 3:13 PM #

    “Even Mike O Cain won 9 games and won the Peach Bowl the year after Dick Sheridan left.”

    And Bunting won the Peach Bowl the first year he was hired. Because he was left with Peppers, Greg Ellis, and various other NFL-ready studs on the roster.

Leave a Reply