Green, Jr: NC State 1974 = The Best

General NCS Basketball Rankings & Lists Tradition42

SFN highlighted the public voting on the topic of the best ACC National Basketball Champions in this entry earlier this morning.

But, we thought that it was important to blog the piece from today’s newspaper that prompted the poll. Anytime that a member of the Green family ranks NC State ahead of Carolina in anything you know that it is legitimate.

The reunion of North Carolina’s 1957 and 1982 national championship teams Saturday in Chapel Hill brought to mind the collection of championship teams produced by the Tar Heels, Duke and N.C. State during the past 33 years.

Among them, the three schools have produced eight national champions since 1974. Not bad for one neighborhood.

Which is the greatest of those eight teams?

Here’s one subjective list of how those national championship teams rank in relation to each other: Inside the ACC | Ron Green Jr.

1. 1974 N.C. STATE: David Thompson, the best player in ACC history, brought down Bill Walton and the UCLA giant, ending a dynasty.

2. 1982 NORTH CAROLINA: Dean Smith’s long-awaited first national championship team also gave the world Michael Jordan.

3. 1992 DUKE: Christian Laettner, the second-best player in ACC history, led a ferocious team oozing attitude and personality to a second straight title.

4. 1991 DUKE: Laettner, Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill were just getting started and floored UNLV in a classic semifinal surprise.

5. 2005 NORTH CAROLINA: In his second season in Chapel Hill, Roy Williams re-establishes the North Carolina dynasty with help from Sean May, Raymond Felton and Rashad McCants.

6. 2001 DUKE: The Blue Devils’ third title in 11 years was fueled by Shane Battier, Jason Williams, Carlos Boozer, Chris Duhon and Mike Dunleavy.

7. 1993 NORTH CAROLINA: Donald Williams had a March to remember as the Tar Heels won No. 2 for Smith — with a little help from Chris Webber’s infamous timeout.

8. 1983 N.C. STATE: There was some question if this team belonged in the NCAA tournament but, with coach Jim Valvano, it gave us a story we’ll never forget.

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General NCS Basketball Rankings & Lists Tradition

42 Responses to Green, Jr: NC State 1974 = The Best

  1. VaWolf82 02/12/2007 at 1:05 PM #

    Christian Laettner, the second-best player in ACC history

    David Thompson, Phil Ford, and Len Bias are all so far ahead of Laettner that it is not even funny. There are probably a dozen or more players that were equally as good. I don’t know if there has ever been a more over-hyped player than Laettner.

  2. packfanstk 02/12/2007 at 1:47 PM #

    I would put the 91 and 92 Dookies and the 05 Holes ahead of Dean’s 82 team.

  3. redfred2 02/12/2007 at 1:54 PM #

    Wow, without any provocation somebody printed that David Thompson WAS/IS the greatest ACC player of all time. Can they report actual FACTS like that and still sell newpapers in NC?

  4. kool k 02/12/2007 at 1:54 PM #

    K was pretty steamed when Mr. Ice won ACC POY over Laettner in 91. Probably even more than Roy was when Julius won it over McCants in 04.

  5. noah 02/12/2007 at 1:55 PM #

    I think most people are in agreement that the best non-center in college basketball history is David Thompson. I don’t know anyone who seriously questions Thompson’s dominance in the ACC.

    Well…maybe Michael Wilbon, who erroneously thinks Len Bias was destined to be better than Michael Jordan.

  6. newt 02/12/2007 at 2:31 PM #

    Of course such a ranking is opinion and thus open to debate, but I think his list makes sense.

    Laettner dominated Shaq.

  7. Rick 02/12/2007 at 2:41 PM #

    “Well…maybe Michael Wilbon, who erroneously thinks Len Bias was destined to be better than Michael Jordan.”
    I am not so sure he is wrong.
    Bias was unreal. He was as good an athlete as MJ and was bigger and shot better.
    He probably did not have MJ’s drive to win but Bias was incredible.

  8. redfred2 02/12/2007 at 2:56 PM #

    “I think most people are in agreement that the best non-center in college basketball history is David Thompson. I don’t know anyone who seriously questions Thompson’s dominance in the ACC.”

    When did you move to an uninhabited island?

    Oh, I misunderstood, you’re talking about smart people. But, your own words “destined to be” have nothing to do with the ACC or college basketball anyway. Those words have tainted many a mind on how a certain player that you mentioned above, played while still wearing the powder blue. He was named top in the ACC for the past 25 years, when nothing could be further from the truth. MJ was blooming at UNC, Laettner was peaking at Duke. I’d rank Laettner’s contributions on the collegiate level, along with MANY, MANY others in the ACC, well above MJ’s, and all due to a wide variety of circumstances that were beyond MJ’s control. It’s just fact, but many I know will still argue until they’re powder blue in the face, that MJ was even better than DT in college.

    That’s taking into account that I hang with a very biased and illiterate crowd, I know.

  9. class of 74 02/12/2007 at 3:06 PM #

    Bias was a great athlete but DT had a quicker first step and it seemed nobody could out leap him. And as an outside shooter he was better than MJ or Bias. It’s like choosing cars would you rather have a Ferrari, Lambourghini or a Bentley? No bad choices just different styles.

    I’d have loved to see our ’73 or ’74 team play IU’s ’76 team. I think we’d have beaten them with either version but then I’m definitely biased on that. Still it would have been a classic no doubt.

  10. tractor57 02/12/2007 at 3:09 PM #

    Given the stipulation of best college player ever in the ACC I think DT wins hands down. Second might be Len Bias as he also could that his team on his back and carry them – I also would include Laettner in this group. As great as MJ was as a pro he was just a step above average as a college player (sorry light blue guys).
    I’ll agree that as a pro there is no question MJ is the best every from the ACC – but AS a pro

  11. gopack968 02/12/2007 at 3:36 PM #

    But for the darned steps at Studio 54…

    If DT had only been the dominant NBA player he was capable of then the discussion would be moot. Instead we have to use the “college” caveat, rather than just best of all time. As a result, DT wins the college moniker and MJ wins for NBA and probably for overall.

  12. legacyman 02/12/2007 at 3:47 PM #

    DT was NBA all star in both leagues. Don’t remember if he was MVP in both.

  13. kool k 02/12/2007 at 3:51 PM #

    Granted, most of these guys were before my time…so I have to go by videos I have seen and books I have read, as well as the opinions of people I respect…but here is one 29 year old’s all time NCAA starting 5:
    Alcindor
    Russell
    DT
    Maravich
    Oscar Robertson
    ACC Starting 5:
    Sampson
    Laettner
    Bias
    DT
    Phil Ford

  14. kool k 02/12/2007 at 3:53 PM #

    Wolfpack 5:
    Burleson
    Bailey
    DT
    Monroe
    Lowe
    Hodge, Shavlick, Witt, Corch, Kenny Carr all in V’s rotation

  15. noah 02/12/2007 at 3:55 PM #

    I saw Bias and Jordan’s entire collegiate career. At the end of his fourth year, Bias was a better college player than Jordan. But I never thought Bias was entering the category that Wilbon puts him in. He was a SOLID shooter, not great. He was a terrific athlete and he had soft hands. But he had a long way to go.

    Jordan is simply the greatest basketball player of all time. I’m hesitant to compare centers to non-centers. It’s absurd to compare Alcindor or Chamberlain to Jordan and Larry Bird. But Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time.

    David Thompson, however, was far better at a younger age. From the ages of 18-22, I don’t believe there were any non-centers that were better in college. Even Pete Maravich, whose scoring records will undoubtedly never be broken wasn’t as good as Thompson.

    There is a YouTube clip (which I can’t access from work) of Thompson against Bill Walton. I don’t know if it’s from the semis or from the game in St. Louis. But Walton, who is 6-11, goes up for a shot at close range. Thompson was standing flat-footed on the ground when Walton began his shot and just EXPLODES upwards and blocks it.

    A co-worker of mine saw it live and said it was really one of those, “Holy crap! Did I just see that???” moments.

    There are three basketball players, IMO, that belong at the top of the heap: Jordan, Alcindor and Bill Russell. Had cocaine not been so ever-present in the 1970s or if DT just hadn’t developed a taste for it, he would have been the fourth.

    (if DT hadn’t tried coke in the 70s, he probably would have been the only pro athlete NOT to do it)

  16. RedTerror29 02/12/2007 at 3:55 PM #

    I don’t know what’s gotten into Ron Green – he spent most of an article on Frank McGuire talking about how great Everett Case was.

  17. noah 02/12/2007 at 3:59 PM #

    I don’t even know if I would put Bias on my all-time ACC team.

    Laettner was better. Sampson may not have the career numbers, but man, he sure was the most decorated player (and he was damn good before he hurt his knees). Ronnie Shavlik and Dickie Hemric have numbers that are hard to argue.

    My backcourt would probably be Hurley and DT, my front court would probably be Laettner (grumble grumble) Lenny Rosenbluth (the guy averaged something like 26 ppg) and Sampson in the middle.

  18. statered 02/12/2007 at 4:13 PM #

    Noah I strongly disagree with you on Bias. He was a great shooter, not a good one. People who say he would have been better than Jordan are projecting his upward trend starting from when he left college – at which time he was better than MJ in his development.

    A lot of what makes a player great is who he played for and with. Laettner had the benefit of that.

  19. Big Worm 02/12/2007 at 5:11 PM #

    “My backcourt would probably be Hurley…”

    There are at least two point guards I’d take over Hurley.

    If you’re looking for a take-over-the-game point guard, Phil Ford is the only choice. He was a scorer (19 ppg CAREER avg.) who also excelled at ball distribution. Ford was a “combo” guard before there was such a thing. He was a much more complete player than Hurley and physically was more imposing – he had 3″ and 30 lbs. on Hurley, easy.

    If you’re looking for a “pure” point guard, Corchiani was marginally better than Hurley. Corch had more assists per game than Hurley with a substantially weaker supporting cast. Had Corch played the same number of games as Hurley had he would have had over 100 more career assists. Corch also turned the ball over less than Hurley while scoring at roughly the same clip. Corch and Hurley had virtually identical 3P%, but Corch also had a substantially higher FT%. And like Ford, Corch had 30 lbs. on Hurley, making him more of a physical presence than Hurley could be at 150 lbs.

  20. choppack1 02/12/2007 at 5:37 PM #

    Noah – I don’t know how you leave Wilt off that list. He was incredible – I don’t doubt that he would be a dominant force today – and I can’t say that about Russell.

  21. TNCSU 02/12/2007 at 5:42 PM #

    ^^^I don’t even know if I would put Bias on my all-time ACC team.

    Noah, DEFINITELY disagree. I saw Bias in person at Reynold’s and he was incredible — definitely 2nd all-time. Jordan was not nearly as good in college IMO.

  22. tractor57 02/12/2007 at 5:43 PM #

    Len Bias was a man – he could (and did) carry his team on his shoulders. Laetttner was great also but he never was able to achieve like Bias in college. I really pains me to be promoting a Maryland player but he was the real deal.

  23. wolfpacker420 02/12/2007 at 6:20 PM #

    Rodney Monroe had to be the 2nd best player out of NC State, he got caught up in the between positions and stacey augmon in the pros. It’s a shame b/c he was unstoppable in college!

  24. burnbarn 02/12/2007 at 7:10 PM #

    Noah I like your list, but I would like it better substituting Ford and Brad D.

  25. highstick 02/12/2007 at 7:43 PM #

    Noah, I thought through the whole, Alcindor, Wilt, Russell thing this afternoon. I saw them all play in their prime and it’s a total toss up. Russell may have been the best defensive player, but darned if I could pick one over the other. That’s an argument that will never be solved!

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