32 Turnovers Doom Pack in Cincy

Cincinnati 80, NC State 71. Here’s the recapwarning – not for the faint of heart or young children. I would call it ugly/brutal, but that would be too kind.

This was, by far, the worst effort we have seen from NC State in the Sidney Lowe era. Aside from the continued offensive excellence of Ben McCauley, there isn’t much nice to say. The Pack finished just 3 shy of its all-time record for turnovers, set in 1972 vs. UNC. And if you want a scary thought, imagine how many TOs we could commit against the Tarheel press, if Roy doesn’t call of the dogs. Seriously, we might never cross midcourt.

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06-07 Basketball General NCS Basketball

45 Responses to 32 Turnovers Doom Pack in Cincy

  1. Rochester 12/23/2006 at 2:42 PM #

    If you don’t get ESPNU, take it from me, that was painful to watch. The amazing part is, until about 3 minutes to go we were still right in it. If not for the turnovers we would have been up 15 at the half instead of up 3. We need to practice breaking the press. And not throwing the ball away to an invisible man would help, too.

    Ferguson got a lot of PT today, and interestingly enough, Nieman got none. So we’re still on a six-man rotation, just a different sixth man.

    The three “easy” games on the horizon couldn’t come at a better time. Maybe Atsur will be back sometime in this stretch. And how about working Jarvis Williams or Darrell Davis in for a few minutes? Those guys were good HS players down in Florida. Both of them could have gone to college on BB scholarships somewhere, Williams especially. I’m optimistic they’ll be more than practice players before long.

  2. vtpackfan 12/23/2006 at 3:05 PM #

    Title states it all. Before getting into the TO disaster, some unexpected highlghts.

    *We OUTREBOUNDED a good team, 36-26. Yeah, they also hoisted up 18 more shots because of the our ball handling meltdown, but rebounding has been an issue and obviously something is getting fixed in practice. That’s a good thing.

    *Horner and Fergueson a combined 4-6 shooting beyond the arc (2-3 each). We obviously need a confidence boost in this area, and if players not named Atsur can help develop this weapon in the future then that is a good thing.

    * A nice all around stat game from Courtney, and one that may show further over all development in hs game. 6-14 shooting, 8 rebs., 3 steals, and 2 blocks. All while mercilessly being run off screens again on D.

    * Big Ben’s shooting from the field, 9-11, continues to amaze everyone but himself.

    That was the good. The Bad and the ugly are one in the same. As noted above, TO’s. 32 #$%#ing! TO’s. I thought the ACC/Big 10 game with Iowa last year would stand the test of time for sloppy ball handling honors until this one. Before anyone gets enraged with Gavin please take in consideration the following. They pressed us and ran out 10 guys. Other teams have tried this approach, Savannah State, Mt. St. Mary’s come to mind, but they aren’t Big East caliber. Gavin has the primary responsibility of handling the pressure and getting the team up court. With that said, he was charged with 10 TO’s. McCauley and Costner were charged with around 14 between the two, so this was hardly one guy coming unglued. If anything it was a lack of poise and physical exhaustion that manifested itself. Merry Christmas BearCats.

  3. Texpack 12/23/2006 at 3:19 PM #

    My thought while watching was “If Sidney Lowe or Monte Towe were watching this it would make them sick,” then I realized that both of them were. At least 10-12 of the turnovers should have never been committed by anyone on scholarship at a Division 1 program. This game should have been a Wolfpack victory. If we commit only 22 turnovers we could have very easily won the game. We are very spotty when it comes to recognizing where the defense is and where the open man is. Some possessions we looked like the ’81 Lakers in terms of ball movement, others gave you a deer-in-the headlights feeling. We are going to see a lot of pressure defense from anyone who watches this film.

    Thanks to ESPNU for assigning Bob Valvano to do the game. He sounds enough like Jimmy V to bring back some memories.

    Surely somewhere down the bench we have an old high school point guard that can give us 10 minutes a game. I wanted to see Nieman get a shot today. He couldn’t possibly have been worse than anyone who played as far as ball security.

    The best part of the game to watch if you were a Pack fan was Ben McAwesome. The guy looked like a Pete Newell instructional video on establishing low post position and the use of the drop step. Sidney has done an excellent job with teaching the entry pass to the low post from the wings. Horner and Ferguson both showed a lot in that regard today.

    You see enough flashes to realize that if this team matures and learns over the course of the season we can cause some real problems for people in February and March. NIT should be our goal.

  4. Lee Fowler 12/23/2006 at 3:20 PM #

    We may not win again until we find a solution at PG. We MUST get the ball out of Grant’s hands. And he should NEVER shoot unless he has a clean lane to the basket for a layup. His role should be defensive stopper and a cutter on offense, period. Sort of like a Billy King or Brian Davis of Duke old.

  5. vtpackfan 12/23/2006 at 3:30 PM #

    Games like this one and others surely to come, where teams try to pressure our ball handling and decision making, are going to shape this team tremoundously in the future, IMO. On one hand it’s easy to say that eventually Atsur will make it back to the line up and part of the problem will get solved very quicky. Looking down the road a bit though, Lowe has this fantastic recruiting class coming in but in essence is replacing Atsur with an unproven commodity in Degand. Don’t get me wrong, I for one am exciting to see Degand run the offense, but who in this line up will push him for the job or provide adequate back up?

    Scholly’s are still availible for an ’07 pg, but one has to wonder if terrible ball handling games like this push Lowe more in that direction, or if he see’s someone already in the roster who can step up a deliver against teams who press and pressure.

  6. VaWolf82 12/23/2006 at 3:36 PM #

    I’ve been expecting this type of game ever since Herb didn’t sign a PG last year. State has frightfully few ball handlers and with Atsur hurt, Grant simply has to do more than he should. If Grant continues to improve, this could easily pay dividends for him down the road. Nate McMillen played well after V was forced to move him. I’m hoping for the same type of development from Grant.

    This won’t be the last type of game we see like this…but hopefully Atsur will get back and minimize the number. State will likely be very vulnerable to teams that press, teams with ultra-quick PG’s, and teams with bangers inside. State is simply too weak and too shallow at the 1 & 5 spots.

  7. vtpackfan 12/23/2006 at 3:37 PM #

    “We MUST get the ball out of Grant’s hands.”
    As noted above, or forwards/center had more TO’s put together then our PG.
    I’m not arguing that this experience with Gavin at the point is going sweet. Just that he is an easy scape goat for what was obviously a complete team melt down.

  8. Rochester 12/23/2006 at 3:46 PM #

    There were enough turnovers all the way around that you can’t single out one offender. It takes a village to turn the ball over 32 times.

  9. vtpackfan 12/23/2006 at 3:47 PM #

    “Grant simply has to do more than he should. If Grant continues to improve, this could easily pay dividends for him down the road.”

    Thank you for that early X-mas gift VaW. Chin up everyone, we aren’t going to raise up to any dizzying heights w/o of few scraping rock bottom experiences. We don’t need the Pepto brand of basketball we’ve been accustomed to, we can stomach this kind play. We believe its all going to work out eventually because the spirit is alive and well once agin. Merry X-mas everyone.

  10. burnbarn 12/23/2006 at 3:57 PM #

    Cincy’s press did a nice job of getting us running and when we ran we turned it over. Every player on the team dribbled the ball a couple steps too far.
    We canonly hope the team learned a lot from this. Engin.. get healthy!!! That would be the best present of all.

  11. Jamie 12/23/2006 at 4:11 PM #

    Okay, so we lost, and our ball handling was sloppy. I hate to make excuses, but somebody’s got to say it. Some of those calls were abolute bull sh*t. Do offensive fouls count as turnovers? Take 3 or 4 away from that total right there. Yeah, there were plenty of passes to invisible and competing players, but a lot of those TO’s were good old home cooking. I’m not saying that we got shafted, because we all know that those things are to be expected on the road. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t get all suicidal about it either. I’m sure that area will get extra work this week in practice, just like rebounds apparently got extra attention since Wednesday.

  12. BJD95 12/23/2006 at 4:22 PM #

    One of my twin daughters and I took a lunch break from our Christmas shopping, and watched the last 15 or so minutes at the MacGregor Draft House in Cary. The collective audible groans from the assembled masses were too numerous to count. It really, really sucked. I know we’re thin, and playing all fowards and one shooting guard (who has absolutely no ballhandling ability), but come on. Cincinnati is a pretty bad team.

    Does anyone know what happened to Nieman? I have to assume he was either hurt, sick, or suspended. He certainly hasn’t done anything to lose his spot in the rotation.

  13. bTHEredterror 12/23/2006 at 5:32 PM #

    Obviously the turnovers were devastating, you can’t give any team 16 more shots than you take and expect to win, but the all season problem I see is free throws. 7-15 will less than 50% as a team! This mus tbe addressed as it cost us the Bama and Uva games, and will cost us more games and likely a couple of embarassing come from ahead losses that tend to haunt a team at tournament time.

    The good news is, as bad it was, we still had a chance to win late. Costner hits that three and who knows? A better than expected season is still a possibility. With so many young teams in the ACC the occasional meltdowns are certain. We saw today that without Atsur, we are as vulnerable to the meltdown as anyone else.

  14. Astral Rain 12/23/2006 at 5:56 PM #

    Have to remember, this is a year where games like this are going to happen.
    Anything good from this team is a pleasant surprise. If things like this happen 2 years from now (or even next year), then it’s cause to worry. This year I’m just going to be a fan and enjoy the good.

  15. Texpack 12/23/2006 at 6:06 PM #

    “when we ran we turned it over. Every player on the team dribbled the ball a couple steps too far.”

    You are dead on with this observation. This team needs to run to win. We need some easy buckets out of the transition game. On those plays where we dribbled a couple of steps too far, I could see where the pass needed to go. TV obviously gave me a big advantage, but with some teaching, Sidney will show them where to be as catchers and where to go with the ball as passers. The hit ahead pass, as I like to call it, where Sidney would always find Whit on the wing in transition was there several times. We had our heads down dribbling into trouble and didn’t see it.

    The raw talent is there. Sidney can teach. We will be ok eventually if the team doesn’t get discouraged. One or two ACC road wins will work wonders for this team.

  16. geojim1990 12/23/2006 at 6:10 PM #

    Lowe made some attention-getting comments after the game, including:

    “That was huge,” Lowe said of the late run by Cincinnati. “That was one of those turnovers during that time. We had some guys that didn’t come to play. They hurt us when we had them in the ballgame.”
    and…
    “For whatever reason, we had a couple of guys who just refused to pass the basketball,” said Lowe. “That’s not how you play the game. We just did not play smart. We didn’t play smart at all.”

    I suspect that these comments may be exactly what some of those guys need for extra motivation, however I really hope it doesn’t backfire on Lowe. I don’t think that it will though because that Cincy team isn’t one that is superior. I think that every player on NC State’s team knows that they got beat by an inferior team. Or, more to the point, “they beat themselves”.

  17. GAWolf 12/23/2006 at 6:29 PM #

    It’s funny sometimes how people view things differently. I think Gavin has to realize he needs to do less for this team to greatly improve. I’ve not seen a player since maybe DWilk who played like he was trying to hard at all the wrng things and not hard enough at the right things. A lot of GG’s turnovers were from lazy passes and picking up his dribble at terrible places on the court and forcing passes that simply aren’t there. Those are mistakes that a player with allegedly NBA potential just can’t make… whether he’s playing in position or out. As soon as he realizes that his sole job right now is to work his ass off to get the ball across half court and basicly nothing else, we’ll be much better off. He’s got weapons on the court that can help him with the rest….

    The funny thing is we’re talking about Engin coming back as our PG answer…. he’s not really a PG either. This game and the struggles we’ll see the rest of the year go back to Sendek’s positionless recruiting philosophy. We don’t have a PG or a center (minus Ben… I Thank the good Lord for Ben McCauley… who is not a true center either) and right now we’re hurting for that ridiculous approach to bball.

  18. vtpackfan 12/23/2006 at 8:20 PM #

    “he’s not really a PG either. ”
    No, but he has the poise and leadership qualities that are an extension of the coaches on the court. His presence can calm others on the court own when things get slightly out of hand.
    The guy has ACC gmaes and international tounrnement games under his belt. It’s not his skill set that is badly needed, but his leadership.

  19. forst8 12/23/2006 at 9:24 PM #

    Overall, it was just a pitiful effort by the Pack. If only we had a true point guard, things might be different. Lets hope Engin is ready soon because I think he can fix a large part of what is wrong right now.

  20. redfred2 12/23/2006 at 10:39 PM #

    I worked all day and didn’t hear anything until just now. I am disappointed in this one, not at all what I expected after the Bama game but it is still pretty much in line with with what expected coming into this season. There is definite talent in this bunch but it’s just not a well rounded or well thought out grouping of individual players. That’s no fault of anyone playing or coaching right now though.

    I’m pretty sure this group can make it work out much better than they apparently did today though. Sorry Wolfpack fans, days like today were inevitable, but it will get better. How much better, is the question we’re all asking. But I seriously would rather not hear anymore talk about the NCAA tournament, or even the NIT, that is a ridiculous burden to place on this team, along with these coaches, and it is absolutely ridiculous speculation at this point anyway. It’s unfair, and it just makes the reasonably expected losses like today’s, much harder to tolerate than they should be.

  21. hoop 12/24/2006 at 1:16 AM #

    Was anyone watching ESPN just now? It’s the College Football Final on ESPN with Lou Holtz et al. The thing is they’re talking about the coaching carousel and mention Tom O’Brien. Then one of the reporter guys, sorry don’t know his name but he’s the black guy, says O’Brien better watch his back. He talked about how when NC State lost to Akron he mentioned that CTC was on the hot seat and if he continued to coach like he did that CTC would be looking for a new job. Then he says how Lee Fowler called up ESPN, got his phone number, then informed him how CTC was staying on as coach no matter what. Then reporter guy says O’Brien better watch out for the faint praise and public backing. And says a few other unflattering things. They were all specific to Lee Fowler. Damn, I couldn’t believe it. All this time later and this guy is talking about that phone call and O’Brien better watch his back. Amazing! This is not the type of media relations we need. And I thought CTC was bad at media relations.

  22. class of 74 12/24/2006 at 7:02 AM #

    Until we get a PG it’s like having a car without any key.

  23. wolfonthehill 12/24/2006 at 8:28 AM #

    What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

    I’m just concerned that games like this could kill the team’s psyche.

  24. gjames123 12/24/2006 at 10:10 AM #

    Seriously? Our best ball handler is on the bench hurt right now and we lost by 9 on the road with 32 TOs. Relax everyone!

  25. legacyman 12/24/2006 at 11:01 AM #

    We have certainly been hurt by Atsur’s injury as he was starting to take to Sidney’s training him to be a PG. Engin does have floor awareness and seemed to run things when he had the point but he didn’t play against any good teams so we won’t know until he returns which I hope is soon.

    This year will require a lot of patience as we have no experienced true PG…thanks to you know who…so we have to live with the cards that have been dealt.

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