Bad State fans lead CFBall Attendance (again)

General NCS Football21

Fansblog continues to earn their keep with the type of information that we all love. On Tuesday, they shared an analysis based on accumulated percentage of stadium capacity for their entry, “Which college football fans are going, or not going to games this season?”

Essentially – how much, in percentage points, are fans filling up their football stadium. The reasoning for this is simple. Does the school put butts in the seats if they have those seats available?

The Atlantic Coast Conference shaped up as follows:

(1) NC State – 109.1 (109.1)
(2) Maryland – 102.2 (99.8)
(3) Virginia – 100.5 (100.0)
(4) Florida St – 100.2 (100.7)
(5) Virginia Tech – 98.3 (100.0)
(6) Clemson – 96.0 (97.8)
(7) Wake Forest – 93.0 (97.7)
(8) Georgia Tech – 91.7 (85.1)
(9) North Carolina – 90.0 (87.4)
(10) Boston College – 87.1 (97.1)
(11) Miami – 62.4 (81.8)
(12) Duke – 51.5 (66.3)

Consistent with the last couple of years, NC State fans continue to impress and lead the league in attendance as a percentage of capacity. This comes as no surprise to the rabid Wolfpack fan base that has been filling Carter-Finley (and other local stadiums) for years.

The criteria used for the analysis based on “available seats”, therefore Carter-Finley’s general admission tickets are not included in the equation’s denominator. Regardless of the attractiveness of ranking so high in the comparion (which we have done for years now), I’m ready to get the North End Zone built and stabilize our denominator in a manner that makes us not look as though we are trying to artificially inflate our attendance.

* 119 schools in Division 1-A football
* 22 schools with attendance of 100% or better of capacity
* 1 in first place (named NC State)
* How many schools’ fans have been publicly criticized by their own Athletics Director for bad support?

Welcome to NC State.

General NCS Football

21 Responses to Bad State fans lead CFBall Attendance (again)

  1. site admin 11/02/2005 at 9:31 AM #

    Thank God we can be #1 at something

  2. Rick 11/02/2005 at 9:36 AM #

    IMO this is why Fowler is so cocky. He knows people are coming to the games so the $$ is flowing.

  3. Jeff 11/02/2005 at 10:53 AM #

    ^ Yes, it is a very tough situation.

    In the end, our fan base’s loyalty actually works against us when there is a need/desire to make changes (or strive for improvement). Fowler is spoiled by our fan base and support, yet all he seems to do is want to be argumentative and combative with the very people whose unyielding support insulates him from having the make “market based decisions”.

  4. Kevin @ Fanblogs 11/02/2005 at 11:30 AM #

    Thanks for the link. I, too, agree that NC State is going to have a tough time getting changes as long as the money is there. There might be some big boosters (who also do advertising, so two $ streams) who can apply pressure, but sometimes those guys are too far in the AD’s pocket.

  5. Haredogg 11/02/2005 at 12:50 PM #

    I think the > 100% attendance figures are dumb.

    If more people are at a game than the stadium is supposed to hold (stadium capacity), then they should increase the stadium capacity number.

    For example, see Tennessee’s site – http://utsports.collegesports.com/facilities/tenn-facilities-neyland.html

    Capacity = 104,079

    “UT has averaged 105,176 fans over the past nine seasons, drawing nearly four million patrons during that span.”

    How do you average over 1,000 more fans per game over 9 seasons than what your stadium’s capacity is? I think it is time to rethink your capacity.

  6. Slader4881 11/02/2005 at 1:05 PM #

    These stats are really stupid. All it really tells you is if our stadium is the right size for our fan base. If you are over 100% it means the stadium needs to be larger. The real impressive numbers are total attendance like at UT , Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State, all are well over 100,000. Just because our percentage is high doesn’t mean that we have the best support of fans in the ACC. Go to Clemson, FSU, or Va Tech for a game and experiance the larger crowds and you will see what I mean. Just imagine what it would be like if we actually had a good team for a sustained amount of years. Then adding on thousands of seats may be justified. Until then this is really nothing to celebrate about.

  7. Jeff 11/02/2005 at 1:41 PM #

    I TOTALLY agree with the previous comments about the stupidity of the definition of “capacity” as used in these figures (reminds me of the wise NCAA’s problems with calculating graduation rates).

    But, I don’t think that the entirety of the numbers should just be cast aside based on sheer size and volume.

    Slader, you want to adjust the stats because of the size of the stadium…but, do you equally want to adjust based on the size of the school? Each of the schools that you mentioned have more than twice the number of students than the average ACC school (and more than 75% more students than NC State). Penn State has the largest alumni population in the country and OSU and Michigan are very close to the top (approximately doubling NC State’s).

    OF COURSE those schools have more people in the stands. Proportionally adjusting for size by using this capacity adjustment isn’t necessarily stupid. (It just shows data in a different way). What is stupid is the incorrect definition of the word “capacity”.

  8. Trout 11/02/2005 at 4:20 PM #

    I’m proud of our fans. This will (probably) be our 2nd straight losing season, yet the stands are full. 52500 for Southern Miss wasnt too bad, considering we were 2-4 going into that game.

    ” our fan base’s loyalty actually works against us when there is a need/desire to make changes”

    I dont agree with that. Our fan base has finally “caught up” to other fan bases in terms of support. I think our fan base works FOR a potential change, when the time merits it. In the days of MOC, it was hard to tell how committed the fans were to the current program based on attendance. We were hardly ever “full” and there was no financial commitment to the seats. NOW, if we suffer major attendance gaps, then you KNOW the fans are upset because there is alot of money invested in those seats.

  9. BJD95 11/02/2005 at 5:04 PM #

    It is indeed incredible how our fans have continued to fill up bad seats (including the temporary bleachers) to watch some pretty bad football. However, if you are an athletic director with a “status quo” mangement philosophy, it’s easy to point to attendance as an excuse NOT to make any needed changes. Why rock the boat if finances are good?

    And it doesn’t take much to get our people all lathered up, too. In a sense State fans are so used to losing and so desperate for something more, that they are not nearly demanding enough in their expectations. They’ll take the faintest glimpse of hope and convince themselves things will get better by magic or the sheer force of will.

    And way, way too many will swallow the MSM line that we are “just poor little NC State” and have no right to expect programs that truly compete for championships. It’s sad, really.

  10. smile 11/02/2005 at 5:06 PM #

    Unless other stadiums have the same overhead % available, say 9% as in NCSU case, then the numbers are not comparable. Something can only be 100% full. Other than, of course, the coaches giving 110% to fix the dicipline problem 🙂 And attendance numbers have always been fishy, given the counters (schools) bias. The Hornets had sellouts for years….best in league….but empty seats abounded. I would guess VT as tops.

  11. Jeff 11/02/2005 at 5:19 PM #

    Trout,

    I respectfully disagree with a lot of your comments.

    (1) What other fan bases have “caught up” to? It seems to be that we HAD football fan support very similar or better than many our peers (GT, Maryland, Carolina and others) and now we have easily surpassed this tier of fan.

    And this doesn’t even consider basketball, where our fanbase has always proven itself to be one of the most supportive and rabin the country by ANY measurement.

    (2) It kind of sounds like your perspective is that fans don’t deserve changes and improvements until they are as committed as our people are now. I disagree.

    The way that our support works against us is simple — we have a major, SUNK financial expense for tickets. So, many fans are going to go to the games no matter what their opinion is. (And, God forbid if they try to express themselves with a boo!!!!). I’ve supported a change for our basketball coaching positon for 5 years, and have bought 2 tickets for each of those five years and made sure that my seat is full.

    How is my fanaticsim and the financial structure of our department NOT working AGAINST my wishes?

  12. Slader4881 11/02/2005 at 5:29 PM #

    Jeff I agree it may be better to include student population, alumni and etc. But my arguement is what is the point? I think that NCSU has a great following and I am part of it by spending money on season tickets and travel to Raleigh for the games. But you can’t judge fan support by these numbers or even taking into account the school size and etc. The real telling number is season tickets sold next year following another subpar season and even beyond. First off you know businesses in the area will by tickets no matter what, and same with some alumni in the area. But the “swing ticket holders” are like myself. I live out of the area and a recent graduate so I do not have an abundance of cash. A season like this makes me think, “Is it really worth spending this money for tickets?” I will most likely get season tickets again because I love the university, but some people like myself may not. In the end it just bothers me because some people seem to celebrating these stats and using them as a measuring stick. There is no real way to measure support so we should just leave it like that and focus on wins. Those are always the most convincing stat.

  13. Trout 11/03/2005 at 8:02 AM #

    Jeff:

    When I say “caught up” I mean to traditional football schools, not teams like GT (worse fans in the league, IMO) or MD or UNC. I mean filling the stands even for bad football teams (ie, South Carolina, Georgia, and other SEC schools – not in terms of pure attendance, but filling up the stadium seats we have).

    “It kind of sounds like your perspective is that fans don’t deserve changes and improvements until they are as committed as our people are now.”

    Fans, and the University, deserve changes for various reasons. Our fans ARE committed, and that, in my opinion, is a positive all the way around. I do not think it works against making changes, when changes are merited.

    “How is my fanaticsim and the financial structure of our department NOT working AGAINST my wishes?”

    Is the question here about fanaticism, our financial structure, your wishes…..or that our AD isnt making decisions YOUR wishes want him to make? Our fanaticism, our financial structure isnt going to change. I doubt your fanaticism is going to change. Will the AD change?

  14. Trout 11/03/2005 at 8:08 AM #

    “In a sense State fans are so used to losing and so desperate for something more, that they are not nearly demanding enough in their expectations.”

    I dont sense that from anyone here, and I certainly dont sense that on the popular NC State forums. Judging by those representations, there are many very demanding NC State fans. The difference being now, vs 10 years ago, those very same fans have put out the $$$ to make things better facility wise. That certainly has changed the way NC State is perceived. The expectations are higher now, IMO.

  15. BJD95 11/03/2005 at 12:19 PM #

    ^ Trout – there are plenty of people in the forums who stick to the notion that we owe Chuck something, that point to his good season FOUR YEARS ago, who don’t consider 2003 subpar b/c we went to a bowl – even though it was a crappy bowl against a terrible opponent, etc. And plenty of that faction continue to peddle the old “who says the next guy will be any better” line, which is acceptance of mediocrity.

  16. Trout 11/03/2005 at 12:42 PM #

    ^ Chuck is owed the $$$ that his contract stipulates. IMO, that is all any coached is “owed.”

  17. BJD95 11/03/2005 at 1:34 PM #

    Trout – I agree wholeheartedly.

  18. Jeff 11/04/2005 at 8:43 AM #

    Trout, I agree with almost all of your retort.

    I would definitely take issue with your persective that you don’t see a shift in expectations and standards for results within the the NC State community.

  19. Trout 11/04/2005 at 8:56 AM #

    ^ I guess I’m confused. I DO see a shift in expectations and standards for results within the NC State community. Are you saying there is has NOT been a shift? Or, are you just talking about expectations within the confines of the Weisger Brown building?

  20. redfred2 07/28/2007 at 10:15 AM #

    Trout,

    I disagree with what you said in your first post. The administration shouldn’t need to be prodded by the fans either way. They shouldn’t wait until there is a slump in attendance, or a general dissatisfaction with the sports programs, to get motivated to improve the status quo. They should be pro-active and looking to improve upon every aspect, EVERY DAY, that is their job and what they get paid VERY WELL to do.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. My Links for July 25th through July 30th | Evan Roberts - 07/30/2007

    […] StateFans Nation » Blog Archive » Bad State fans lead CFBall Attendance (again) – What school’s fans gets ripped by their Athletic Director but still lead the nation in College Football Attendance (AGAIN!) ? Thats right, NC State. Bandwagon that bitches. […]

Leave a Reply