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This is the fourth time we’ve been blown out this year — Creighton, Illinois, Miami and now UNC. Every road or neutral game against a team with a pulse has been brutal.
That RPI looks good due to clever scheduling but it doesn’t really pass the eye test (paired with our results thus far) for giving the team the benefit of the doubt. It left us unprepared for conference play as we’ve looked lost outside the PNC.
For those thinking this was a one time thing, how much do you really need to see? Have you forgotten last season? Have you forgotten starting the season as #6, underperforming and then losing a first round 8/9 game? Have you forgotten the epic meltdown to lose a play-in game? Are two different 2 game win streaks in March (which were followed by defeats where the results were clear early) and a fear of hiring another Lowe blinding you?
Gott bought good will by blaming asssistants last year and saying help was sitting on the bench. He has already blamed the players (#6 year) and can’t do that this time because they were part of what saved his bacon last year. If this trend continues this year, he’ll have no more excuses.
Of course I think Yow needs to be gone before this gets fixed. Yesterday would have been enough for me if I were Randy.
One game does NOT a season make….but we have had two lapses already…
Don’t forget two more in the OOC schedule.
I wouldn’t dismiss the Wins over:
Georgia Southern (2 pts)
Loyola-Illinois (2 pts)
Boston University (4 pts)
Tennessee State (OT – 12 pts)Are two different 2 game win streaks in March (which were followed by defeats where the results were clear early)
This may not matter to the point of your post, but I don’t recall either of the losses in the sweet 16 as fitting “the results were clear early.” Against Kansas in 2012, we led at halftime and ultimately lost by 3 points. Against Louisville in 2015, we led at halftime and ultimately lost by 10 points.
No need to pile on to make your larger point.
Of course I think Yow needs to be gone before this gets fixed. Yesterday would have been enough for me if I were Randy.
Are you saying that Gott should be fired today? Or at the end of the season? If the latter, then don’t you need to let the rest of the season play out before making the decision to fire him? I certainly hope you aren’t saying he should be fired today.
Are you saying that Gott should be fired today? Or at the end of the season? If the latter, then don’t you need to let the rest of the season play out before making the decision to fire him? I certainly hope you aren’t saying he should be fired today.
It’s just a matter of time. Why wait?
Of course we all know no one is going anywhere until 2019 when talent cubbard will be bare.If you are talking about DSJ, he might be a Top 10 PG in program history. His flaws are things I learned not to do in Rec League ball when I was 10 years old. Lo Brown, without the benefit of watching practice and being with the team ahead of Gott’s arrival, was light years ahead of DSJ with respect to running this offense. He may end up having a fantastic NBA career, but as a college PG he is lacking in a big way.
The dude just came off a triple double in conference play against a ranked opponent AND as a freshman. You know of any other ACC PG’s to accomplish that feat? You know of 9 other NC State PG’s to do that? Hodge wasn’t a freshman and was playing against much inferior competition. What are the other 9 in the ACC, much less NC State?
The kid is a phenom. A shame he had a down day.. but I don’t think yesterday is going to somehow derail his career.
His flaws are things I learned not to do in Rec League ball when I was 10 years old.
mmmmmmmkay.
Have you forgotten the epic meltdown to lose a play-in game?
what play-in game did we lose? don’t recall that
Lo Brown, without the benefit of watching practice and being with the team ahead of Gott’s arrival, was light years ahead of DSJ with respect to running this offense.
sorry not done with you yet…
Lorenzo Brown (freshman year) vs DSJ
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FG%: 41.3% vs 46% (WINNER DSJ)
3pt %: 32.1% vs 38.4% (WINNER DSJ)
Free throw %: 71.3% vs 75.2% (WINNER DSJ)
Avg Rebounds: 3.68 vs 4.2 (WINNER DSJ)
Avg Assists: 3.74 vs 6.4 (WINNER DSJ)The only meaningful stats LoBrown was better is blocks (by the tiniest margin) and turnovers (by the tiniest margin.. DSJ averages 1 more than LoBrown per game).
Please explain what aspects of the game that LoBrown was “light years ahead of DSJ” in. Light years…. c’mon man!
Because of who the loss was too and my expectations for the team I am thinking that “something is rotten in the den of the wolfpack”, part of the time. Part of the time I am thinking it is only one game and historically Gotts teams do not come together until later in the year and this year some pieces were later getting started. My conclusion, wait until the end of the season before I come to any firm conclusions, maybe.
Vacillate much, Yes.
oops.. left out another very important stat..
Points per game.
LoBrown: 9.3
DSJ: 19.1You may be the only person on the planet that would pick LoBrown in a pick up game over DSJ.
what play-in game did we lose? don’t recall that
Apologies. We lost the first round game (after winning the play in game) against St. Louis in a complete melt down. That was the year we squandered TJW, which was the single best player to wear the Red and White since Julius Hodge. We were probably only in the tournament because TV wanted to see Warren (the ACC POY who had come on really strong down the stretch).
This may not matter to the point of your post, but I don’t recall either of the losses in the sweet 16 as fitting “the results were clear early.” Against Kansas in 2012, we led at halftime and ultimately lost by 3 points. Against Louisville in 2015, we led at halftime and ultimately lost by 10 points.
Maybe you viewed those games differently than I did. I had zero expectation that we’d win either. Against Kansas, the first couple of times down the court we tried to inside and then got it swatted away. Against Louisville we came out and took a lot of awful shots. Both times, superior coaches made adjustments at halftime and quickly pulled away at the start of the second half. It was sort of like our nice little story was over, but it was time for the real teams and coaches to start.
Are you saying that Gott should be fired today? Or at the end of the season? If the latter, then don’t you need to let the rest of the season play out before making the decision to fire him? I certainly hope you aren’t saying he should be fired today.
I think Yow should turn in her resignation today to be effective at the end of the student calendar year. This problem isn’t getting fixed until Yow is gone. She’s not hired well in the most important sports, thinks that “Gott is the perfect coach for NC State,” seemingly has a poor reputation among men’s college basketball coaches, preached patience last year waiting for the Rescue Squad, has put a baffling contract structure and buyout around Gott (for no good reason), had a hand in firing Lutz (who IMHO would have been a better hire than Gott), etc.. I think she’s done a lot of good work here, but I don’t think she’s going to be the one who fixes the revenue sports.
If I were Randy, I’d put Gott on notice. I’d be crystal clear that only a top 4 ACC regular season finish or ACC tournament championship keeps him safe unless he makes a deep NCAA tournament run (Elite 8 or beyond).
You are ridiculous to think Lutz “would have been better” than Gott. You can argue Greg Marshall, but not Lutz.
There were rumors that when Schroyer was hired that we were hedging on Gott. If he imploded, the reigns would be handed over to Schroyer. Well, I’m not sure I’ve seen many implosions as bad as today’s results, so it may as well be Heath time.
Who is “we”? Debbie Yow? Woodson? The Wolfpack Club? The fans? Gott hired Schroyer. Do you know dumb this sounds?
I graduated NCSU in 96. I used to be a big sports fan, but work, kids, life in general has curbed a good bit of my fandom for all sports. My son, who I unfortunately raised as a Pack fan, has really been calling me out lately and questioned my support of the Pack. It’s games like these that continue to dilute my interest in all things Pack. It’s not enough that we can’t ever seem to get over the hump in any of the big 3 sports, but we are constantly adding humiliating, embarrassing losses along the way. The kind of games where you want to take off any State apparel so nobody will strike up a conversation. I’m not talking about losing. Losing to Carolina in Chapel Hill was a high probability, but to lose by 50? I mentioned years ago we are always up for dubious honors. I believe we are still one of the only ACC programs to lose to ECU basketball. I quit watching 5 minutes in. I knew it was going to be embarrassing, didn’t realize it was possible to lose that bad though. I don’t care about firing MG. It’s obvious we can’t do any better. We haven’t done any better for the past 30+ years. Basketball, football, doesn’t matter. Not looking forward to trying to find Yow’s replacement. Not looking forward to finding Doren’s and Gottfried’s replacements. Not really looking forward to anything Pack related. Women BB seem to be doing well. About the time you think they’ll have a great year they’ll lose to Barton College by a gazillion. NC State, always winding up to deliver another gut punch to its fans.
Rye – I gotta go with Tau with this, we were down by 2 with the ball with less than a minute to go vs Kansas.
Regardless, I don’t see us truly “building” with Gott. While he is good coach, his teams start slow and the result is that these teams are mentally spent by the time the tournaments that determine championships are played. Perhaps, he would do better in the NBA where everyone pretty much plays the same amount of games in the post-season.
However, the fact that his teams have done solid in the first round of two only to falter when a serious disparity exists in almost every year should tell him and Debbie that banners are highly unlikely no matter how good of a coach you think he is.
You are ridiculous to think Lutz “would have been better” than Gott. You can argue Greg Marshall, but not Lutz.
Lutz was actually in coaching when we hired him. Gott was announcing. Lutz did more relative to resources at UNC-Charlotte than Gott did at Alabama. Lutz had lived in the shadow of UNC and Duke and knew how to carve a niche out. I wouldn’t have targeted Lutz, but he’d have been a better hire than Gott. Gott was a horrible hire. Lutz is no longer here, and we’re doing worse relative to talent.
That’s not even mentioning all the candidates that would have been better than Gott. Marshall? Absolutely. I’d say the same about Cronin or Kruger. That hire was a case study of what not to do.
Who is “we”? Debbie Yow? Woodson? The Wolfpack Club? The fans? Gott hired Schroyer. Do you know dumb this sounds?
Go search for some articles about Schroyer’s hiring. The question was why a head coach would quit a head coaching job to be an assistant here, particularly a head coach whose team was clearly improving and the fact that Gott was on the hot seat. There were reports coming out that Yow was hedging on Gott. Remember, Gott had some health problems at the time. Maybe he thought he might be stepping aside?
Please be clear, I don’t think Schroyer is the long term answer. The defense has, if anything, regressed. If we had an opening today, I highly doubt Schroyer would be on the candidate list.
I just KNOW Gott isn’t the answer.
If I were Randy, I’d put Gott on notice. I’d be crystal clear that only a top 4 ACC regular season finish or ACC tournament championship keeps him safe unless he makes a deep NCAA tournament run (Elite 8 or beyond).
Just curious, if we bring in Archie (or whatever other coach you want and think we could get) after this season, are you expecting him to meet these criteria next season? If not, when?
Tau – one thing should be certain. If we hire a guy with a mixed track record at his last stop – and we see the same trends here – perhaps we should expect it to end like his stop.
I don’t think Gott was a horrid hire. Especially when you consider the fact that evidently Yow has a toxic reputation in Men’s basketball coaching corners… However, you better have done your homework on him and you better see evidence that something changed from last stop… Unless you believe it was a non-basketball related issue(s) that caused the meltdown.
Looking at his record, I think without the personal stuff he would have been allowed to finish up the season, but he was strongly trending in the wrong direction.
If I were Randy, I’d put Gott on notice. I’d be crystal clear that only a top 4 ACC regular season finish or ACC tournament championship keeps him safe unless he makes a deep NCAA tournament run (Elite 8 or beyond).
Just curious, if we bring in Archie (or whatever other coach you want and think we could get) after this season, are you expecting him to meet these criteria next season? If not, when?
I don’t understand how he can say those things then tout Lutz as better than Gott with the same mouth. Yesterday was unacceptable but we are not a top 10 program if we ever were. Every top 10 program has HOF coaches that have been there for decades. Our closest similar program is probably Wake Forest. They are the only ones that have to deal with what we have to deal with. They don’t have our distant past or gullible fanbase, that’s the only difference.
Lo Brown, without the benefit of watching practice and being with the team ahead of Gott’s arrival, was light years ahead of DSJ with respect to running this offense.
sorry not done with you yet…
Lorenzo Brown (freshman year) vs DSJ
==================================
FG%: 41.3% vs 46% (WINNER DSJ)
3pt %: 32.1% vs 38.4% (WINNER DSJ)
Free throw %: 71.3% vs 75.2% (WINNER DSJ)
Avg Rebounds: 3.68 vs 4.2 (WINNER DSJ)
Avg Assists: 3.74 vs 6.4 (WINNER DSJ)Since only assists could be interpreted as an indication of RUNNING THE OFFENSE
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the rest of what you posted just indicates a lack of understanding of what a PG is supposed to do. He’s supposed to get people in the right spots, he’s supposed to deliver the ball effectively in the half court, he’s supposed to provide some leadership. The fact that we have been crushed and gotten all out of whack every time we’ve played outside the PNC against decent teams shows that DSJ is lacking in those areas.
The only meaningful stats LoBrown was better is blocks (by the tiniest margin) and turnovers (by the tiniest margin.. DSJ averages 1 more than LoBrown per game).
Please explain what aspects of the game that LoBrown was “light years ahead of DSJ” in. Light years…. c’mon man!
Just curious, if we bring in Archie (or whatever other coach you want and think we could get) after this season, are you expecting him to meet these criteria next season? If not, when?
The next coach will and should get his/her obligatory time to build a program. The amount in part depends on the state of the roster left by Gott. If we have standard Gott attrition after this year, then it could be rough next season. Say what one wants about Lowe, he left the cupboard pretty well stocked — with talent and incoming recruits at every position. That helped Gott get a quick start.
We’re in year 6 of Gott which is different than year 1 (the straw man). Gott’s had two mulligans. If he disappoints yet again this year, then that will be three seasons of under performance. More importantly, he had trends that were red flags when we hired him that have continued. I tend to think that past performance is indicative of future performance. I see a lot of similarities of his time at Alabama as I see here.
For me, given the reservations with the hire, and the on court performance, I’ve personally seen enough. I’d seen enough last year, and thought he should have been gone then. Of course, I will fully admit that I have less patience for him because I thought he was a bad hire initially.
I fully admit that it doesn’t matter what I think. It matters what the administration and big money donors think. It matters what all those that are season ticket holders think and whether they vote with their wallets.
I don’t understand how he can say those things then tout Lutz as better than Gott with the same mouth.
My big thing when assessing performance is to judge it against inputs. Lutz did more with less at Charlotte than Gott at Alabama. As a common benchmark, both had victories (and losses) to HWSNBN while he was coaching State. The difference is that Gott did that with Alabama’s resources. Lutz has never had a platform similar to what Gott has at NC State, or what he had at Alabama.
I feel the same way about a coach like Charlie Strong at Texas and his viability at NC State. If a coach can’t win at football at Texas, then they’re likely not going to be able to do it here with much fewer resources and a lower spot on the pecking order (yet also be forced to deal with some Goliaths). A coach might or might not succeed from a smaller program with lesser resources moving up. The challenges are different though, with the latter having challenges related to growing pains.
I also think that just because two people are working together, different outcomes might happen if the boss/employee relationship is different. I tend to think we’d have been better off with Lutz as a head man, X’s and O’s, task master and Gott as a first assistant, recruiter, player’s coach. We’ll never know.
Boys,Boys… Be nice! You can move on Wednesday.
At least you have stopped with the childish ‘Gott hater’ moniker.
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