Tuesday's Moral Dilemma….

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This topic contains 95 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by  Fastback68 3 years ago.

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  • #106859

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    As promised…

    What expectations do you have of our leaders regarding how they balance “the greater good” and “self-interest” AND how do you measure what you may or may not see against those expectations in order to determine any leader’s success or failure?

    Gentleman’s rules of order are in effect.

    What say ye O Wise Ones?

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #106860

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    Whose greater good and whose self-interest?

    #106863

    freshmanin83
    Participant

    Aren’t we the leaders.

    #106864

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    “Societies by their definition are groups of people, large or small, who live and work together under the umbrella of perceived common bonds. Societies by their nature require leaders and those leaders are required at times to speak to the people on matters regarding morality. Moral Leadership, like it or not, is perhaps the single most important attribute, the people expect from their leaders.”

    Pak — the greater good of the society versus the self-interest of a few

    83 –depends at what level you speak… alot of here are “leaders” in our businesses, churches and communities… none of us hold or appear to have an interest in holding a national political office

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #106866

    Rick
    Keymaster

    I need some more context as this thick head is not understanding where you are driving this train.

    #106867

    Wufpacker
    Participant

    I presume gentleman’s rules means no cussing. So I’ll try.

    As I’ve said privately very recently, I’m all for giving new blood the deserved chance to prove themselves capable….or incapable. Once I arrive at the determination of incapable, which granted sometimes takes me longer than for others, there is little chance to win me back.

    I’d be OK with pink slips going out today. Name an interim while a coaching search, slow and careful, is conducted.

    Yes, that’s extreme, I get it. And maybe we’ll run off a string of W’s against vastly superior talent/coaching. And pigs might fly out of my….ooooh…almost cussed there.

    I don’t care about what I can’t see. That’s not my concern, I don’t get paid the big bucks to deal with that. When I do, I will care. I care about what I do see. And what I see is a team that, if prepared well, could at least compete. They are not being prepared well.

    I told you all back in the summer that October and November were not going to be fun. And I was actually optimistic still at that point. I would still love to be proven wrong. I think there is probably a 1.34% chance that I will be proven wrong. And that’s generous.

    I know I’ll get slammed for this post. Guess what, I’m beyond caring. I love this university, but I hate that we are so willing to sit idly by and be the doormat for everyone else. Grow a pair DY….like yesterday.

    The time is now.

    #106868

    Wufpacker
    Participant

    When we lose to Wake at home next weekend, with two weeks to prepare, I’ll make room on the train for you all. That’s just what family does.

    #106869

    tractor57
    Participant

    Wuf I am not gonna slam you but I do take a bit more moderated view. That said this year I do want to see some progress – maybe not in W/L but in the team looking more ready to compete. Maybe that was so in Greenville or maybe not – but to me this year is one that is telling. The seat is warm and getting warmer by the second.

    #106870

    Wufpacker
    Participant

    I can respect that, tractor. I generally take the moderate stance as well. I really do. I think I was probably in the last 5% to decide TOB was a train wreck in certain ways. Always wanted to believe in him. Same with DD, really.

    But the product on the field is the telling factor for me. We underachieve without fail. That’s preparation and coaching.

    IF we miraculously turn it around and find a way to a winning season, I’ll gladly eat some crow.

    WHEN we don’t, there damn sure better be someone new in the head dude’s office chair this time next year.

    And don’t get me started on Gott. He’s got the pieces to not screw things up this year. When he does…..

    (I’m looking at you also, Elliott Avent)

    #106871

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    Rick…Understanding we all have different “expectations” and ways of measuring against them (which was the opening question)…

    Do we hold coaches, preachers, governors and Presidents all to the same expectations for moral leadership?

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #106872

    tractor57
    Participant

    Wuf we agree in principle but maybe not to the same degree. Glad we can discuss without the usual Internet crap. I think your opinion has much value but not there YET – end of season I will either be or not.

    #106873

    Wufpacker
    Participant

    Fair enough tractor.
    And I really do hope I’m wrong.

    #106875

    rthomas44
    Participant

    Well,DD will be here next year unless he decides to go. I have to believe that there’s improvement in the team but not as w/l. I’m not unhappy but I don’t buy seats anymore.

    #106876

    choppack1
    Participant

    Regarding sports and corporate governance, self interest shouldn’t be considered (not saying it isn’t, but you have a duty to pursue ethical policies and advance the entity.)

    From an individual perspective and at the government level, greater is definitely considered. However, again ethics and the case of governments – individual liberty and the realization that government does nothing without force – should always be at the forefront.

    #106877

    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    …and the song remains the same

    #106878

    Wufpacker
    Participant

    …and the song remains the same

    Sadly, yes.

    #106879

    Rick
    Keymaster

    …and the song remains the same

    Sadly, yes.

    We are NCSU.
    I don’t pretend to know the intricacies of football in such a way as to formulate an opinion outside of looking at the record.
    Right now, the record ain’t too good. However, I am not even convinced changing would make a difference. We seem to be a middlin’ football school and I am not sure there is a path out of that status.

    #106880

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    since “morals” are important to us in football coaching….

    What did Dabo say wrong this time?

    e$$pin

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #106881

    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    ^ It depends from which side of the street yer throwin’ yer window open.

    #106882

    Greywolf
    Participant

    I told you all back in the summer that October and November were not going to be fun.

    And I thought last summer that you telling us blah, blah, blah was rather arrogant — that your thoughts were some how more significant than ours. No issue with you expressing your views but… you telling us like you know something special? I don’t think so.

    This is just my way of saying “Kiss my arse” to the Gentleman’s rules of order comment in the OP.

    As far as fun is concerned I plan on having lots of fun watching WFU, ND, FSU and Miami in Carter-Finley and the others on TV. If State had to win for me to have fun watching, I wouldn’t be a STH. Honestly I think way to much importance is place on whether we win or not to evaluate the Pack. Sure I like to win and think it’s important to try to win — within the limits we set for ourselves.

    TOB had the misfortune of having his staff’s health go south — that and having a non-recruiting staff member, Tenuta. Frankly I like the morals, leadership and integrity he brought to NC State.

    I think we can win with his Champions in the Community, Champions in the Classroom and Champions on the field vision for NC State football. Doeren is building on this vision. It’s entirely possible we may never (although I believe we will) have a Champions on the field football team but we will have Champions in the Community and Champions in the Classroom. I like that I don’t have to hang my head when character and academics of our football program are brought up.

    Building a program based on family, integrity, ethics and hard work will take longer than building a program based in academic fraud and other forms of cheating, under-the-table payments, and getting hoodlums admitted by teaching them to cheat on “learning disability” tests because they are 4-star recruits.

    You have to ask yourself how does NC State land a Thad Moss, who could go just about anywhere? It’s not our winning record or winning head coach. Or ask yourself why Joe Scelfo transfers to NC State. Or Finley. There are others, such as Nyhiem Hines with character, who were highly recruited elsewhere who elected to come to NC State.

    I’m not impressed with Dave Doeren’s game coaching. Sometimes I wonder if he is doing something besides trying every trick to win games. I wonder if he is making a bigger point when he does some of he things he does. I’m more concerned with his building a program than I am his W/L right now.

    I think our, the fans, negativity effects the team. I worry that it effects recruiting. There may have been 10,000 fans at the end of the ODU game. We had some recruits there who are looking at our football program and community. Exiting early demonstrates a “I don’t care about this team” attitude that the recruits could hardly miss. Being in our seats cheering — that and our donations — is about all we can do we as fans can do. And we have people on this board bragging about predicting that October and November are not going to be fun.

    Again, I intend to have fun 4 more times this year in Carter-Finley Stadium.

    Go Pack!

    #106883

    Rick
    Keymaster

    And I thought last summer that you telling us blah, blah, blah was rather arrogant — that your thoughts were some how more significant than ours.

    He’s a keymaster. And we ALL know keymasters thoughts ARE more significant than anyone else’s 😉

    amiright?

    #106884

    Greywolf
    Participant

    He’s a keymaster. And we ALL know keymasters thoughts ARE more significant than anyone else’s

    amiright?

    Well, yeah. 🙂

    #106885

    Adventuroo
    Participant

    I will have to get out my Snowflake’s First Aid kit. I feel mortally wounded and depressed. I can feel the intense pain of the microaggressions that emanate from every syllable of this entire thread. Please, Please, Mr. Keymaster, banish it from the records immediately and then take disciplinary action (save all but me of course) against the instigators, aggitators, perpetrators, and others that are possesed with the thought that free speech is a constitutional right.

    I may have to call Melissa Click and have her console me. Perhaps she can intervene and “get some muscle over here….” if the leaders our group do not have the moral fortitude to do such….

    #106887

    Wufpacker
    Participant

    Greywolf, do I sense a note of humour? You old bastard you!!!

    No, I’m not special. At least not in a good way. Keymaster is little more than an honorary thing, which means I can not only edit my own posts, but yours as well. Which means little unless someone gets personal with the insults. Translation…I don’t know sh-t from shinola.

    I most certainly should be on the short bus, so arrogance is not my forte. I’m just this side of mental/emotional disability these days if I’m being honest.

    But the defensive issues worried me much more than the QB or receivers situation, which was worry enough.

    But I do have to agree that it’s not so much the destination as the journey. Enjoying the ride, wherever it leads. Fellowship at games (and here as well) etc., should not be undervalued. My apologies if my previous rants discounted such things.

    #106888

    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    My hands are broken…so I let others speak.

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