PACK @ Notre Dame – 9pm…

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This topic contains 98 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by  Wulfpack 4 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #128550

    TheAliasTroll
    Participant

    One last thing, there are a lot of folks more versed in college basketball than the posters here who thought we should have only lost by 6 points last night, current state of the roster be damned (Vegas & Kenpom). Miss the spread by 24 points… red flags my friends.

    Agree with the past couple of commenters. This season is going to be painful if all you’re looking for are “W”s

    I’m looking to not get blasted on by 30 points.

    #128551

    Greywolf
    Participant

    I also find it funny we gave DD the benefit of the doubt for football for a few years, but KK hasnt even played a full ACC schedule and some want to get rid of him. Just Crazy

    You must not have been here when Doeren went 0=8 in the conference. I’ve been reading, lurking if you will, and no one is advocating firing KK. Some will soon enough because that’s all they know to do. Keatts is a teacher. I’m watching him on the sideline. He want lose his team with ridiculous looks and rants.

    I have more to say but learned my lesson in the football threads.

    #128552

    Greywolf
    Participant

    I’ll go away for now, you guys let me know how many years to wait before I can speak up and be concerned.

    That didn’t last long.

    Miss the spread by 24 points… red flags my friends.

    #128553

    TheAliasTroll
    Participant

    oh greywolf is here, i’m definitely leaving now

    #128554

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    Happy New Year!

    Welcome back GreyWolf….

    with the grace and courtesy that only comes with age…

    Keatts is a keeper…

    From down here in the snow… it’s looks like to me that Keatts did a great job of building team chemistry with a bunch of newbies in 6-8 weeks, plus the summer, of course…

    Then boom…
    Darius Hicks goes down for the season…
    This might seem small since he’s a freshman… but the difference in having 4 good BIGS and 3 good BIGS is 100%… not only minutes spread out in games, but in practice where’s there’s always competition…

    Then BOOM KA BOOM …
    Markel goes home for Christmas, checks in with his homeys, get’s in the wrong place at the wrong time, get’s stupid, get’s busted…

    That never would have happened in Raleigh with his team mates… only flying solo in wonderful Cleveland Ohio…

    We’ve seen Y7, L.Freeman have career nights, but not lately…
    When the BIGS are Bigs — the outside guys roam like fighter pilots… knowing the BIGS got their back…

    Ain’t seen that lately either…

    Problem is… Next Man UP Sh#t ain’t gonna work this year… they’re all already out on the court…

    I’d think they need a couple of player’s only prayer meetings to come together OR as pointed out above, it’s the last two seasons all over again, without the sideline comics….

    This and That ain’t Kevin Keatts style… not now, not ever….

    At the end of this season, we might the proudest we’ve ever been of a sub 500 State Men’s basketball team… idk…
    It’s a show worth watching, regardless of the ending…

    Forecast is 13 tonight at the beach…
    Damn, that’s colder than our shooting last night in South Bend…
    POP!!!

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #128555

    Wolfanatic
    Participant

    Just as TO left DD an empty cupboard, and the Grinch did likewise to the Whos, so MG has left KK’s cupboard. We just have to deal with it. We will be decently fed and decently shot this year, I’m thinking. Certainly, it is way too early to assess the job that KK is doing. This is a rag tag band of players shaken up and rolled out of a dice cup.

    At least we show hustle and desire, but then that is minimal expectation. Barring a game where we shoot 70% from the floor, I’m not sure I see a conference win. Okay, maybe two. The Arizona win gave a glimmer of hope, but that hope was summarily dashed. We have since lost a couple of players for what appears to be the season and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I’ll still watch, and hope, but realistically, this season is a goner, I think. Hope I’m wrong, but I can’t quit. Fah who foraze, Dah who doraze,

    #128559

    Greywolf
    Participant

    Our game threads are all about what we are doing wrong. IMO Any fool can “see” what we are doing wrong. What would reading these game threads be like if we were commenting on what we were doing right — just occasionally.

    How long is going to be before we are making lists of what Keattts is doing wrong and what he should be doing. About relatively the same as football would be my guess.

    #128560

    Rick
    Keymaster

    Our game threads are all about what we are doing wrong. IMO Any fool can “see” what we are doing wrong. What would reading these game threads be like if we were commenting on what we were doing right — just occasionally.

    How long is going to be before we are making lists of what Keattts is doing wrong and what he should be doing. About relatively the same as football would be my guess.

    Given we lost by thirty any discussion about what we are doing right would be pretty short. But there’s nothing stopping you from having that conversation.

    #128561

    13OT
    Participant

    Honestly, last night to me was worse than anything I saw under Gottfried, and I’m not a fan of Gott. No matter how bad you inherited from last season, you have to make the best of what you have. We aren’t even close to doing that in my opinion. This team is LOST.

    I think most of our players would rather drive to the rack for a highly contested dunk rather than pull up for a short jumper.

    I think that we should be slowing the tempo rather than playing a rabbit hunt offense when we’re obviously short-handed in numbers and appear gassed in the second half.

    I think that our shot selection is the worst I’ve seen in years, not to mention our shooting. If players can’t shoot open 3s, then why not try to get a few feet closer for a 2?

    Why do we keep recruiting transfers? To me, there is an obvious reason why players transfer after a few seasons where they don’t get to play much.

    I’m trying to be optimistic, but I’m dam*ed tired of losing and being told every 5 years that we need to give it more time. No, I didn’t expect to win our first two ACC games and I don’t expect to win Saturday night, but the way we looked last night was disgraceful. I turned the game off with 7 minutes to go and when I turned on WTVD 11 this afternoon for highlights, they said that it was so bad that they wouldn’t even show them, and they didn’t.

    As for Keatts, I think he’s in over his head. Do we need to give yet another coach 5 seasons to prove it? Actually, I think he’ll be here longer than that, because he’s already set the bar lower by saying we have much less talent than our opponents (translated- don’t expect to win anytime soon).

    I really believe that this school’s administration doesn’t care if it’s EVER relevant again in basketball, as long as the money rolls in. How much longer will it be before the Big Wolves have had enough? I’ve been in the WPC over 20 years now and have just about abandoned hope that we’ll ever be more than just another road kill, Tuesday entrant into the ACCT.

    #128562

    Greywolf
    Participant

    Given we lost by thirty any discussion about what we are doing right would be pretty short. But there’s nothing stopping you from having that conversation.

    Oh no, Basketball is your thing Rick. I just hate to see the crap start — and it’s already started — on Keatts like it did you know who.

    Have a nice season. I’m out of here. Might see you again in the fall. 😉

    #128563

    Texpack
    Participant

    I said several weeks ago that we would get blown out a lot this year in conference play. Here’s why I said that.
    1) We don’t have any shooters other than possibly Beverly
    2) We don’t have any slashers/drivers that can finish
    3) We don’t have any really good post up scorers
    4) Frenchy and Dorn on the offensive glass are our most consistent sources of offense
    But the biggest reason
    5) Given all of the above, Keatts has decided to play his style of ball

    It’s like playing the Run and Shoot when your QB is Billy Kilmer.
    I understand that Keatts is trying to install his system and playing for the future. I also understand that doing that in the ACC with this roster gives us almost no chance to win. This means that at this point he still has unwavering confidence that his way will ultimately work and he thinks that the value of getting reps in his system outweighs the damage done by getting your brains beat in 15 times in an 18 game conference schedule.

    Next year won’t be much better in terms of wins and losses. The recruiting class may be good enough to keep us in a few more games but you’re still looking at 6-7 conference wins TOPS. My hope is that he will modify his style a bit once he sees where it’s weaknesses are against ACC teams.

    #128564

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    MEMO TO ASST.COACHES

    Until further notice…
    We will be adding a morning practice — 8am -10am — everyday, except game day and Sunday, for the remainder of the season.

    During this time, let’s address the following:

    1) We don’t have any shooters other than possibly Beverly

    1. Teach ALL the 1s,2s & 3s how to set their feet right before catching the pass in order to go straight up and on balance for jump shot
    2. 100 shots per man per day minimum.
    3. require 3 passes in half court offense before taking jump shots – shots should almost always come from the weak side of the D…. anybody shoots early, runs a lap…

    2) We don’t have any slashers/drivers that can finish
    1. Fix 1 & 3 first… we come back to this next month…

    3) We don’t have any really good post up scorers
    1. Bullsh#t. We’ve got a 7ftr with a jump shot, who can’t post up on the low block and score? Teach ALL the BIGS how to post up low and score with either hand without bringing the ball below their shoulders. — 100 shots per man per hand per day minimum. Everytime a BIG puts the ball on the floor from the block — he takes a lap…

    2. Then bring the guards in and teach them how to make two passes — high right hand, high left hand to the bigs. Every time a bounce pass is made to the post, somebody runs a lap. 100 correct passes both ways per man minimum.

    4) Frenchy and Dorn on the offensive glass are our most consistent sources of offense
    Don’t change a thing about this, it’s all good when we fix 1, 2 & 3 above…

    Remember, among other things, we’re here to TEACH our kids how to play basketball.
    We ain’t gonna win a whole lot games anyway, so let’s do the right thing.

    If any students or professors have conflicts with the morning practice, please ask them to contact me directly for the workaround. Our kids are gonna make their grades, too.

    —————————————

    As far as sticking to “my plan”… let me be clear about that….
    1. We want to be solid and dependable in the half court offense.
    2. We want to be run with ball every chance we get.
    3. We’re gonna play pressure D.
    4. We’re gonna play 40 minutes.
    5. We’re gonna score and rebound in the half court offense effectively and efficiency.
    6 We’re gonna stay out of foul trouble and street trouble.
    7. We’re gonna coach our kids.
    8. We ain’t looking at the scoreboard.

    — Coach

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #128565

    Pack1997
    Participant

    13, I understand your concern about transfers. But what was KK to do, not have enough players? He brought in transfers that shouldn’t hurt his scholarship distribution and offers down the road. That, shows he was smart enough to try and fix his immediate roster issues without sacrificing the future. What any smart coach should do. He cannot make baskets for our players, and they miss plenty of wide open shots. Think about this, our best shooters are sitting on the bench currently waiting until next year to play. He has shooters coming in as well as players who can create off the dribble. While you coach those things over multiple seasons you cannot fix them in one season with the players on the current roster. Turning someone into a shooter and being able to create your own shot or beat someone off the dribble isn’t something has a quick fix.

    Now one criticism of KK is the schedule hurt us in many ways. Are the players regressing or just not that good against extremely better competition than what they have played to date? At the same time I understand why a coach would schedule like this the first 2 or 3 years. If you are going to get whipped in conference play then you need some cupcakes to help with confidence etc.

    #128566

    Fastback68
    Participant

    Don’t be trashing Billy Kilmer. His pass completion rate is way higher than anybody’s on this team. They just need a hot dog cart on the sidelines to maintain energy.

    #128567

    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Next year won’t be much better in terms of wins and losses.

    That’s my fear as well.

    #128568

    ryebread
    Participant

    But what I am seeing is Abu and Y7 regressing, a bigger, stronger Lennard getting fewer rebounds instead of more, and I am seeing no improvement on defense from the past.

    Maybe we’re watching different games (and I’ve seen every one of them), but I don’t think I see that. Yurtseven is clearly better than he was last year. He’s more confident, looking to score and racking up blocks on defense. Maybe your comment is that he hasn’t looked as good against the ACC foes as the cupcakes, and I would agree with that. Our non-conference schedule did us no favors (and that is something I hope we see clear improvement on next year). We got into some bad habits that were clearly evident against Clemson, and we’re going to have to adjust.

    With respect to Abu, I think our fans get too caught up in his “measurables” and what seems to be a great kid off the court, and haven’t really paid too much attention to his actual basketball game. The best basketball he played at NC State was a stretch on the back half of the ACC season two years ago when he decided to bang inside. It seemed to click then, and his numbers shot up (averaged a double/double). Last year he clearly regressed. Somewhere along the way, NBA scouts or somebody else told him he needed to show he could consistently hit the 15-18 footer and he has fallen in love with that shot. When we were playing the UCLA offense, he was sitting up at the high post and Yurt on the block, when they should have been switched. I don’t for a second believe that wasn’t part of the deal to get Abu to come back after he almost bolted. This year he was injured, so it’s kind of hard to tell how he’ll end up, but NC State needs Abu to get back to banging on the block.

    Nard is having a career year. He’s put in a ton of work rehabbing and practicing, and I’m very happy for him in that he’s seeing the results. The numbers he’s on pace to put up this year are obviously better than any he put up at NC State, but what may surprise people is that they’re better than he put up in high school. His rebounding numbers at NC State were 5.6 per game as a freshman, 5.7 per game as a sophomore, 4.7 per game as a junior and he’s at 5.3 rebounds per game this year. Looks about the same to me. His shooting from the field and the line are up 20%+ and he’s on pace to triple his career scoring average despite no increase in minutes.

    Now on the defense, I have to admit I’m scratching my head. It looked better early, and looks better against over matched opponents. When Markell went out, we lost the on the ball pressure that seemingly is required for what we are trying to do. I like BB, and he’s doing a GREAT job for a freshman, but a lock down, on the ball defender he is not. Batts looks good to me on the ball, but gets lost off the ball. As a team we don’t have great foot speed, and aren’t switching well. The press looks much better when played with only 1 big man, but our wings just aren’t good enough offensively to play that style. Long story short, the defense looks to me like a system that doesn’t match the players we currently have on the court.

    The defense does look better to me than any of our defenses under Gott because at least we’re actually trying to play it. If one says we’re regressing, I invite you to look at some of the footage from the last couple of years and see just how bad it was. We were absolutely awful and ranked 229th in the nation last year in tempo adjusted defense, and 152nd the year prior. This year we’re currently sitting at 137th, which isn’t where it needs to be, and will likely go up due to the roster and better opposition, but is still a clear improvement over last year.

    Keep in mind that we have also recruited kids who weren’t all that interested or schooled in playing defense. We had a couple of exceptions who took matters into their hands and made things happen (Cat and Warren with steals, Anya from time to time with blocks, Markell being the only one who tried to play defense last year), but for the most part defense was just what filled the 20 or so seconds until we got back to playing offense. This is a cultural shock and a huge style of play change for any returning player, which is likely why Mav headed off to play over seas.

    #128569

    ryebread
    Participant

    Then boom…
    Darius Hicks goes down for the season…
    This might seem small since he’s a freshman… but the difference in having 4 good BIGS and 3 good BIGS is 100%… not only minutes spread out in games, but in practice where’s there’s always competition…

    Then BOOM KA BOOM …
    Markel goes home for Christmas, checks in with his homeys, get’s in the wrong place at the wrong time, get’s stupid, get’s busted…

    That never would have happened in Raleigh with his team mates… only flying solo in wonderful Cleveland Ohio…

    Bill: I agree with much of what you posted, but would make some slight edits to this. Hicks is a sophomore. Markell’s issue seemingly happened when he went home over the summer.

    #128570

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    Rye… thanks for the correction on Hicks… just another blind old man on the internet thing….

    The wral.com report on Markel… indicated the arrest in cleveland was the week before he was put on probation…
    It may well have been that the ‘night in question’ was last summer… that was not clear… if so… I wonder why ‘Cleveland’ didn’t come and get him for a felony or at least send word of their intent to North Carolina…

    Either way… it doesn’t change the story….

    GO PACK!

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #128571

    Zaphod
    Participant

    Per the News & Observer and every other source I’ve read:

    “Suspended N.C. State sophomore guard Markell Johnson faces felonious assault charges in his hometown of Cleveland after an incident on Oct. 8, according to Ohio court documents.”

    The incident happened October 8th.

    #128572

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    “Suspended N.C. State sophomore guard Markell Johnson faces felonious assault charges in his hometown of Cleveland after an incident on Oct. 8, according to Ohio court documents.”

    Well, well….

    At least know we know Keatts ain’t an absolute saint… if he was made aware of the situation….

    If not, Markel should have dismissed from the team, not suspended….

    GO PACK!

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #128573

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    I’m just going to sit back and watch the games this year with low expectations and hope to be pleasantly surprised a time or two along the way.

    Keatts doesn’t have the roster to play the game he wants to play. That’s obviously not on him. Give the guy some time.

    #128574

    ryebread
    Participant

    The incident happened October 8th.

    Thanks for the correction on the date. I haven’t heard when and if NC State knew, or whether they found out over Christmas. I found it odd that Markell was playing, then he was suspended and with the team, and now he seemingly is not. That suggests we might not have known, but that is pure speculation.

    Regardless, I look at that situation and think Markell may not be back this season, particularly since they continued the court date. Others close to the program have hinted otherwise, so I hope I am wrong.

    Keatts doesn’t have the roster to play the game he wants to play. That’s obviously not on him. Give the guy some time.

    wulfpack: I think you nailed it with this quote. Without running any individual players down, the roster does not match the system. We’re showing the system first. Hopefully we recruit the players to match. In the interim, this appears to be a long season from a record perspective.

    #128576

    freshmanin83
    Participant

    Our game threads are all about what we are doing wrong. IMO Any fool can “see” what we are doing wrong. What would reading these game threads be like if we were commenting on what we were doing right — just occasionally.

    How long is going to be before we are making lists of what Keattts is doing wrong and what he should be doing. About relatively the same as football would be my guess.

    Greywolf I like some of your posts and your positive outlook most of the time. I dont agree with much of this post. The game threads are not all about what is wrong. When the team is playing well comments reflect that.

    It is easy to post about any fool … like any fool can do a drive by flame post but when invited to contribute to game threads they run and hide.

    I doubt that type of post will engender goodwill or the change wanting to be seen but can be cathartic I would imagine. : )

    #128578

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Great wins by Clemson and UVa.

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