07/01/2014 at 11:04 AM #53162NCSU84Participant
But, but Jim Martin stated that there was no link between the athletic department and the no show classes. Martin is a former governor and credible source (sarcasm intended).07/01/2014 at 11:13 AM #53164WulfpackParticipant
I have a hunch this is going to end very badly for Roy. He was so defiant in his interview with Bilas. Not an ounce of regret or whatever else. Just pure arrogance. The problem is the evidence keeps piling up against him. There is a smoking gun to be found somewhere. Will it be found?07/01/2014 at 11:30 AM #53165choppack1Participant
The real banana republic is north Carolina. The failure to lead and demand accountability has been bipartisan. The heel “footprint” is amazing and embarrassing. If you want to know why great evil is possible look at the old north state…and look at how nothing is being done at the highest leadership levels here. Heck, its certainly possible I am wrong and these leaders are being 100% honest and forthright…but the following appears true:
1. McAdoo plagiarized a paper.
2. Baddour stood in front of the NCAA and said it was his work.
3. A tutor – who happened to tutor butch Davis’ son…was found to be involved in paying parking tickets for a UNC player.
4. The former assistant hc at UNC john Blake – was given a show cause for being a de facto runner.
5. UNC’s recommended punishment didn’t include a bowl Ban.
This is just the early stuff. If there was ever a case for shutting down an athletic department this is it. And if this type of thing is prevalent (which it may be),college sports should be terminated or truly reformed.07/01/2014 at 12:56 PM #53170TKEWOLF75Participant
There is no doubt in my mind that if all the allegations of academic & athletic impropriety had been leveled against NCSU, the NCAA would have long ago bulldozed the entire campus and replaced it with a Walmart superstore selling *NC t-shirts.07/01/2014 at 1:20 PM #53171HungwolfParticipant
The UNC-CHeat scandal is a CONNECT THE DOTS history lesson. The time frame of the establishment of the Bogus African American studies classes starts with the aftermath of the Valvano and the UNC Board Meetings. Valvano pointed out the impossible job of maintaining big time basketball and really educating the recruits necessary to win big time. So while the UNC Board handcuffed our program making us mediocre and an after thought in the college basketball world; Bill Friday with the UNC Power players, John Swofford, and Dean Smith set up an entire system of bogus classes to keep UNC Bball at the top. Sold everyone on the concept of the “Carolina Way” as the program that did things the right way, while looking down on other programs.
UNC and the UNC Board could never apologize to NCSU, its fans, alumni, or the Valvano family enough along with Les Robinson who I still admire for trying to build something while the UNC Board killed our program and Les being the only decent coach that would even touch the NCSU job at the time. I hope the NCAA fries them to the wall. SMU was not near as dirty as UNC-CHeat. Other schools may have cheated, but UNC-CHeat set out to defraud the entire system while promoting itself as the model program!
Lets hope they look into the cars also. P J Hairston’s mother recetnly commented P J only got caught for what everyone at UNC was doing!07/01/2014 at 1:29 PM #53172StateRed44Participant
Roy doesn’t have the balls to face the music. When the evidence against his lies piles up too high,he will go out with a lame excuse and say something like he is defending the “kids”, blah, blah, blah. He will try to use his good ole boy with accents of defiance and faux bravado to the bitter end.07/01/2014 at 3:17 PM #53179MrPlywoodParticipant
There’s a distinct air – or should I say stench – of the “too big to fail” mentality going on here. While the NCAA cracks down on athletes using university water to wash a car, they look the other way while the uNX AFAM dumpster fire continues to burn. I will continue to have zero faith in Emmert until he proves otherwise.07/01/2014 at 3:56 PM #53187SaccoVParticipant
Although I agree with Mr. P regarding Too Big To Fail, this is more evidence to me of what a politician (Thorp, Baddour, Martin, Emmert, etc) really does … nothing. The best course of action for a politician is to 1) do very little in terms of making positive changes to a corrupt system and then 2) give as many reasons possible to avoid culpability for your ineptitude (or incompetence) regarding making positive change/impact. Politicians are interested in public perception, nothing else. Every one of the BOG and BOT of the UNC system should be considered accessories as their complicity in this most ridiculous scandal is evident. Many other posters have asked the question of ‘Who’s minding the store?’ In this case, there was truly no one until Wainstein (at $922/hr) reminded many of us of the $750 toilet seats that the Navy needed in their ships back in the 1980s.07/01/2014 at 7:14 PM #53188wufpup76Keymaster
I’ll believe actual consequences are being levied when I see that they are being well, levied.
This screams of Hans Brix in Team America. Video is NSFW:07/01/2014 at 8:04 PM #53189WulfpackParticipant
More popcorn, Willingham is now suing UNC:07/01/2014 at 8:10 PM #53190
The only things that could make this better are an asteroid or maybe a sink hole.07/01/2014 at 8:30 PM #53192LRMKeymaster
Martin’s report said the academic fraud was general, not athletics-specific. That alone should’ve opened Pandora’s Box, not closed it — institutionalized fraud. Never could make sense of how that was somehow better.07/02/2014 at 11:12 AM #53198AdventurooParticipant
Comments from the Peanut Gallery….as well as some “DDome FUTURE Sky Boxes”….
This thing or The Great Unpleasantness (TGU – as BobLeeSays calles it) is NOT going away. It now has some traction. Don’t quite know HOW much, but it is starting to look more like an alcohol fueled dragster than the Enviro Friendly Smart Car.
The Washington Post has articles about the NCAA and Willingham’s suit. Could be the loyal Maryland writers are trying to gin up circulation or just laughing and saying….”Told you so…”
Ken Wainstein, who is being paid from some UNSPECIFIED “University Foundation” ( http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/02/25/3653683/wainsteins-work-for-unc-could.html ) appears to have impeccable credentials. It is sort of a paradox. He definitely has the ability to get to the bottom of it….and he seems to be TOO well paid to whitewash it.
The real breakthrough here is that Julius and Deborah (if you do NOT know them….then you need to do your homework) have AGREED to talk (and talk and talk and SING) to avoid being charged by the Orange County DA. Deborah turned “states evidence” quickly and then Julius realized that it could be UGLY…and that perhaps an overzealous legislature would “come up” with a law or little loophole that would CUT OFF HIS GENEROUS STATE PENSION.
Rumors abound….and some serious….some sarcastic….and MOST of a common thread…
Julius will be in and out of Fatten Them Up (a weight INCREASE camp run by Duke). Deborah will also be with him. They need to put on additional girth to be more believable as the “fat lady who is singing”. Julius is also in a transgender program and breast implants have been ordered.
Little Blue Smurfette, Carol Folt of Dahhhmoth fame, was on TV last night. This time her outfit was very WHITE with blue tinges….not the blazing light blue she has adopted. Carol said, with a straight face (which may be more total lack of any managerial or leadership skills) that “We need to find out WHAT is going on and when it is over….we will be “much stronger”” Or words to that effect. Remember, Mary Willingham reported that her 2 hour April meeting with the Blue Babe (and did not include Carol’s signature Light Blue Punch and Blue/White Oreos) was UGLY and that Carol stood up on a chair (to be at eyeball level when Mary was seated) and berated her for causing “The Flagship” so much damage…
There is not, to my knowledge, a Vegas line on ORW’s tenure and his being seated on the light blue bench in the DDome this fall. However, the rank and file (BELIEVERS or TruBlu crowd – it’s a conspiracy AND REALISTS or the THIS HAS GOT TO END crowd — this is shameful and we ought to admit our sins and repent and clean house….NOT THE CAROLINA WAY) UNC Fans (and some who classify themselves as EX) want a CHANGE.
I PERSONALLY believe that the NCAA will stop SHORT of vacating the 2005 Banner and also not connect the dots between Dean and AFAM (and if you do NOT know that AFAM was a Kansas invention…..again more homework). Johnny Swoff STILL has enough NCAA clout to keep his name from being sullied as the AD who pushed the Faculty Senate and ADMIN into establishing AFAM.
The NEXT UNC Coach will NOT have Dean/Roy DNA….far from it. There will be a litany of testing to prove NO CONNECTION.
Only time will tell. However imploding the DDome and tearing down Kenan and erecting 200 feet tall replicas of the Bell Tower painted RED with a light Blue “A” are NOT going to happen. However, the folks at Pack Pride are already drawing up plans.
BUT…in the PP boys (girls?) defense….other than the somewhat reprehensible OUTING of the Tutor, they HAVE done a LOT of work and provide Dan Kane with evidence that was the REAL keys to this very well run and organized “Keep ‘Em Elligible” Scam. PP does get some awards also.
Seems like the Dentist and Fats and PJ are NOW out of the spotlight….wonder if the UNC Mouth Guards are as hot an item?07/02/2014 at 11:17 AM #53200packalum44Participant
I see the following scenarios:
Worst Case: Minor sanctions confined to only football.
Base Case: Minor sanctions on entire athletic program which affect basketball program though prospectively and in minor form.
Best Case: 2005 banner comes down
Pipe Dream: 2005 & 2009 banners come down and Roy is released into the wild where we never have to hear the pompous fool speak again.07/02/2014 at 11:34 AM #53201
In general, the NCAA doesn’t interfere or control the university’s academic business. They have placed requirements on high school classes and SAT scores for entering college, but say very little about what happens after an athlete is enrolled. So is a no-show, one-paper class acceptable to the NCAA? Even today, the NCAA would probably say that the university is responsible for the academic requirements for any given class, department, or major.
I believe that this is where UNC screwed up when they took money away from Prof ‘Roo. This action proves that his classes DO NOT meet UNC’s own requirements and thus these classes are fraudulent. The fact that the fraud classes included regular students along with a high percentage of athletes doesn’t change the fact the classes were fraudulent.
If I were on the NCAA team, I would simply ask for an explanation of how UNC justifies uses fraudulent classes when determining eligibility for ANY athlete. When the stammering stopped, it would then be time to recalculate the eligibility of ALL athletes with fraudulent classes on their transcript. ANY team that used ineligible athletes would be required to forfeit all games in which those athletes played. (Look at the the FSU case that was just finishing up when Marvin started tweeting for a reference.)
The fact that regular students attended the fraudulent classes is another big mess that UNC doesn’t want to acknowledge. Basically, UNC sold class credits to the students..no work required, just cash. (Que up all of the jokes about mail-order degrees.) It would be a very bad day for UNC if this issue caused their accreditation to come into question.07/02/2014 at 11:43 AM #53202
Can’t they just continue to hide behind FERPA to avoid providing transcripts?
Also, their accreditation has already come into question at least a little.07/02/2014 at 11:49 AM #53203
FERPA works with the media. But with the NCAA?…not so much. FERPA just means that no info can be released without the student’s permission. The university may just provide info with the student’s name removed. Another possibility is that the athletes are required to give permission for NCAA review.
Side story about FERPA…My son’s degree required an unpaid internship which counted as a summer-school class that I had to pay for. There was confusion over the credit hours required and I ended up having to pay for one additional credit hour. The school wouldn’t tell me how much more I had to pay because of “FERPA”. I told them that I wasn’t sending them a blank check so exactly how did they see this issue being resolved? I was quickly transferred to a “supervisor” for resolution.07/02/2014 at 11:56 AM #53204
Also, their accreditation has already come into question at least a little.
I didn’t remember that (article from Dec 2012). If the accrediting agency was interested in reviewing how cheating was handled, it seems likely that they will be really interested in fraudulent classes. We’ll have to see what the accrediting agency’s response is to UNC’s Sgt Schultz defense. I certainly hope that they talk to Prof ‘Roo and Mary Willingham.07/02/2014 at 12:01 PM #53205packof81Participant
VaWolf82: It would be a very bad day for UNC if this issue caused their accreditation to come into question.
Rather than come clean and take their lumps, they are willing to ride this raft right over the falls and take the rest of the school with them.07/02/2014 at 12:02 PM #53206
FERPA works with the media. But with the NCAA?…not so much.
I glanced at the FERPA rules on disclosure, and couldn’t find anything that looked like it applied to the NCAA. Except apparently, the NCAA is considered a post secondary institution, which I find baffling.
I also found this:
Q. What is the relationship between FERPA and the NCAA, which requests and maintains all sorts of information in its investigations and in its routine, required reporting?
A.Student athletes sign a release allowing sharing of the education record information with the NCAA.
So yep, they’re boned.07/02/2014 at 12:04 PM #53207
I didn’t remember that (article from Dec 2012).
I remembered it because I printed it off and posted it on the fridge for the benefit of my MiL, who is a UNC homer.07/02/2014 at 12:07 PM #53209
Damn. You people are posting faster than I can edit the post you’re quoting.07/02/2014 at 12:23 PM #53211
I see the following scenarios:
Worst Case: Minor sanctions confined to only football.
This seems impossible. The issue is no longer about improper benefits…it’s about fraudulent classes and academic eligibility. If the NCAA restricts discovery to the last few years (when BB players didn’t play with Prof ‘Roo), FB can’t forfeit the same games twice; but it’s possible that the sanctions could spread to non-revenue sports.
The key issue is how far back does the NCAA try to look and how far back is reliable info on fraud available? This issue will determine how far and wide the sanctions go.07/02/2014 at 3:22 PM #53214AdventurooParticipant
“The key issue is how far back does the NCAA try to look and how far back is reliable info on fraud available? This issue will determine how far and wide the sanctions go.”
Please start with 1992 (circa) or whenever Coach Dean Smith visited Kansas and was made aware of the advantages of an AFAM department. That would include all the tenure of AD John Swofford who was the liaison between the Faculty Senate and the ADMIN to establish and staff the UNC AFAM.
In addition, the years under Coach Roy Williams where he and his Chief Academic Advisor, Mr. Wayne Weldon, were involved require more thorough and comprehensive due diligence (do a DEEP DIVE in today’s business vernacular)… It is understood that Mr. Weldon refined the effectiveness of the AFAM Advantage (AFAMA) while in a similar position with Coach Williams at Kansas.
If you need additional information or if I can be of further assistance, do not hesitate to call.
Adventuroo07/02/2014 at 3:34 PM #53215
If they went all the way back to ’92 I would be beside myself.
Could you imagine if we had a more recent title than them. It would bring new meaning to ‘wailing and gnashing of teeth’.
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