FSU thread – Upset Special

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    Coach Kitch is a keeper under any future regime…
    if for no other reason than “continuity” with players and recruits..

    There’s too many of us saying the same things ’bout him based on “outside” experiences for us to wrong about this – this time…

    … I was at the game too… (see above)…
    Thanks for confirming my observations. I was beginning to think I was the only one.

    I’m terribly afraid some of the rest of us didn’t comment on the crowd for all the wrong reasons.

    Apathy rules….
    until the Money talks.

    Aint getting no money from Apathy.
    yes, that’s a tautology.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    Yea Bill – your observations were spot on…and I don’t know about you, but it seemed the game turned when the fans did that little light routine with the cell phones. (This may go down in history at least in my mind in enfamy like the move the chain chant that I remember getting popular at the Georgia tech game.)


    chop… I GOTT to ask…

    Yeah.. the flashlight thing was kinda cool but…
    “Which way did the game turn there after?”

    “What, if any, is the symbolism or reference (idk, remember… I’m an old man….)?”

    Both answers might determine the future….

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    Bill – if memory serves correct, we were leading by 10 in the 4th when that started.

    The move e chain reference is to the ” move the chain, move the chain, woo woo woo” chant that seemed to get popular vs ga tech in 2002.. the game went into undefeated and were controlling the game until a false start nullified a 3rd down stop for us. We have never been that close since.


    so… what you’re saying is the lights didn’t work…

    maybe they would be kool during player introductions in a blacked=out PNC ?

    maybe the larger point is…
    “If, in order to be successful, we have to use a cellphone… we’re more F’ed that we admit…”

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!


    Since you do not regularly attend the CF games….there are a couple of things that you can usually count on. During a Lull or to fill in….

    Band plays Hey Baby. I have NEVER figured out what is the attraction for that oldie….but I see a broad cross section of the fans (as well as in my block) singing and swaying. NOTE, my block does NOT go out at the half or smuggle in mini bottles….they do it STONE sober.

    JumboTron plays Wagon Wheel by the Old Crow Medicine Show. Many TIMES, we really DO need a shot (or maybe several) of Old Crow (I prefer Crown Black) to get us through the lack of dominance on the field. BUT, the crowd will sing and sway and show their loyalty….

    The FSU band, also for your edification, violated the “unwritten” policy. It is a LONG standing tradition, honored by more than 90% of the bands to “share” the breaks. If you play during a TO, then if the OTHER band is there, they get the NEXT TO.

    The FSU band really does NOT play music. They played maybe ONE or TWO songs the entire game. I could not identify the tune or pickup the beat of a “march”. It was somewhat cacahpnic….without substance and depth. NOW, they are masters or perhaps a “Johnny One-Note” at their taunting. They play the dreaded….”Da, DAH, De, Da Ta DAH”. They have several versions in different keys – most are major, but usually followed by a contermelody in a minor key. They did that for all 3 downs for all the series and repeated it….trouble was….or perhaps more fortunately, they DID get discouraged by the number of 3 and OUT series….so we were blessed with some respite and silence.

    Was it LOUD…..yes….did it remind me of some of today’s toddlers that are “placated” from birth and think it is their God Given RIGHT to throw a tantrum in Church or Target or a Restaurant and then are really IRRITATED when their parents (or GP’s) continue their conversation and ignore them. They then up the volume by at least 10 dB….and cycle is repeated. The parents sit there and say nothing or do nothing….as they are “zoned out” on their phones and their all important texts or porn or whatever….acknowledging it would merely empower the kid MORE.

    Therefore, I liken the FSU band to a spoiled brat….and they merely are “asking for attention”….

    I DO agree that the crowd was a little “less enthusiastic” than usual. Maybe it was all the fans that bought tickets and never attended in a while. They might have been much quieter. However, the enthusiastic and repeat fans near us were in full voice. We were fortunate that we did not have a drunken FSU fan defaming anything RED or WHITE as that is usually the case when the tickets are sold “because I want to MAKE a Statement”

    IF we, the mighty WPN wanted to make a REAL statement, we would come to the game, TG like it was 1999 and THEN NOT GO IN. BUT, the fans that complain will sell their tickets for a bottle of MD20 to recover some investment…..

    IF the tickets were NEVER used (sold, given away, auctioned, etc). then the seats would be EMPTY and that MIGHT get someone’s attention.

    Maybe someone that is a techie should start a Twitter or a Snap or a Pop or a FB or whatever social media movement and we, the WPN stage a SIT IN….as we will SIT IN THE PARKING LOT and NO ONE will have out tickets..and we will NOT SIT IN CF.

    Sounds like a plan you could help and run with….I don’t FB or Tweet…so DJT’s handlers don’t have to block my pecking….


    B’rer ‘Roo…

    ??? A Sit IN – the parking lot ???

    On the night before the election, it appears that you’ve given up on the “Make State Great Again” plan proposed by the Whites and the 10% Ticket Price Increase and are moving towards the “Come Together in the Parking Lot” plan proposed by the Reds…

    I guess the questions of the day has GOTT to be …
    “What will the ‘Undecideds” decide?”
    “Will people change their minds?”

    We might be careful…. as it’s really a very small step from a one time sitin event… to doing it every home game… you know.


    As for the FSU band… the mistake somebody in Red and White made was to put them in the top corner of the upper deck — whoever probably thought it would be “funny” for them to tote them tubas to the top row. They should put 1/2 in the NW endzone field level corner and the other 1/2 in the SW endzone field level corner…

    Our Band played a drum cadence sitting down mostly in the second half… at the other end of the Stadium where I was sitting — it was a little muffled/garbled, but it did remind me of the rough edged freight trains that used run thru the Old Campus at night — a campus design flaw that both challenged and annoyed the School of Design and others….

    Talking about bands — During the pregame parking lot stuff… why couldn’t we divide our band into 4-5 smaller units and march them around the parking lots for two hours before the kickoff playing the fight songs? The loyal TGers could give the musicians beverage and food during breaks. Sorta of a Battle of Jericho kinda thing…. you know….

    It occurs to me that over the years the whole game day experience — especially that part inside the stadium has been scrubbed, sanitized and polished to craft politically correct images into a polite TV version image of the University — the modern Urban and Urbane Land Grant University.

    Same as the Ozzie and Harriet / Father Knows Best mythical version of American Family Life in the 1950s. No warts, No blemishes, No faults. Heavy stage makeup covers everything.

    Of course, TV plays it’s role — financing the Show, lengthening game with timeouts, which to the Stadium Producers and Directors are “dead air” which obviously must be filled with something.

    Fans are the unpaid extras who play an important role, but they must stick to the script or they get escorted out…

    Coach DD is the perfect fit for the male lead… honest, humble, hard working, handles the ups and downs of the game and the season with dignity, everybody’s All-American next door neighbor kind of guy.

    Even the Stadium renovations and additions have removed all the old rough edges — like blankets and coolers on the grassy South end.

    It might be useful to remember that Ozzie and Ward had their run but also gave way to Fred Sanford and Archie Bunker…

    Put this another way …

    Here’s something you probably won’t see on the field at Carter/Finley for a long time, if ever…

    It might be time for us to go to work…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    gso packbacker

    It occurs to me that over the years the whole game day experience — especially that part inside the stadium has been scrubbed, sanitized and polished to craft politically correct images into a polite TV version image of the University — the modern Urban and Urbane Land Grant University.

    Yep, and it feels that way too. Being at the game in Greenville this year wasn’t nirvana, but it felt authentic and as though they knew who they were (… a BRAND). Our experience feels manufactured. Actually, more like we just cut and paste things we like from other colleges.

    As for the noise, I thought the fans were better than average. The issue I saw was that there was a large influx of FSU fans (at least in section 2) and they were quiet UNTIL they took the lead.


    Not given up on anything…..Seahawks, NCSU, the good candidates, etc. You misunderstood my post.

    The ticket prices WILL go up if we spend 50+% more for a new coach. That, like certain other consequences of the election, is a fact.

    My point was that so many folks say that they don’t come to NCSU events anymore because (Fill In The Blank) and they do NOT spend their hard earned (which will probably be less in years to come) $$ for such or support the WPC or the University….

    I stopped my Alumni giving over incompetence. Have been courted for years, but nary a $$ to them. I, too, can hold a grudge with the best of them.

    The folks with LTR’s are not going to let their donations go down the toilet. There are folks that also still purchase Season Tickets because they enjoy the TG. I know folks that will usually pay face for tickets, no matter how ugly it will get because they have friends that always TG and can hang out with them. I had, due to business and personal conflicts, three extra in our block on Saturday. Took one text to such a fan. He and his GF and a major Bud were there, but he rode in with some other friends and did the “half time run”. He stayed in the seats and they cheered.

    My point, pure and simple….if the WPN wants to get the attention of Dr. Woodson or others, then it will NOT be done by folks quitting purchasing their tickets. There are a LOT of LTR holders that bought more than they needed….for friends….and the friends have been tailgating with them for at least 10 years. I know of many of these. These friends are NOT WPC members….but they pay for the tickets and the Saturday TG is part of their fall social season.

    BUT, if a portion (or all in an ideal world) of those did not USE their tickets and the stadium was only half filled (like UNC is sometimes), then at least a small shot over the bow would have been made.

    There are a LOT of UNC fans that no longer belong to the Rams Club and no longer purchase FB tickets and will, on occasion, do the HDTV experience for the UNC games. They were fans that never missed a game. BUT, they were also fans that could purchase LTR’s or whatever. When the UNC BOT Bob Winston and his cronies redid Kenan and upped the prices and also shuffled folks around and virtually demanded that you MUST purchase an LTR to get your NORMAL tickets, THAT, coupled with the Butch, Marvin, Black Santa, Dickie Weejuns, Thorp, ad nausem events totally turned them off. They still follow, to a certain extent, BB….but FB, even with a good record, has not brought them back.

    I personally do NOT know what portion of the seats are LTR’s, but if the seat backs are any indication, then it has to be a bunch….so folks are NOT going to abandon their past expenditures….BUT, if they were sitting in the PL and watching HDTV and TG and NOT in their seats (that is also, FYI, done now), then MAYBE that would influence some folks.

    With all the social media influence on the young, who knows…..It is OK to tear down a candidate’s banners and curse the minority of students that dare oppose someone endorsed by JZ and Beyonce and Lady Gag Gag…..so there are those that are quite capable of being equally brainwashed about football….

    As to your photo of the day, obviously you have not attended some of the rock concerts at CF…or were not there when a seemingly sober coed did the “Dancing for Diamonds” Fan Cam Dance and had an equipment malfunction….

    GOTTa go out and vote….looking for my NRA T to go with my RED MAGA hat…

    Many of your comments need to be sent to Dr. Yow. The opposing band’s position is typically in the corner. They USED to be in the opposite side of the horseshoe (on the Murphy side or south). I even recall a Rent-A-Band for someone….it MIGHT have been FSU….they got NCCU I believe and they wore jeans and special T-Shirts and did the Chant Thing. The FSU Band Director was there to lead them. FSU brought in the band via Bus….about 5 whites and a fully decorated FSU lead dog…

    Play nice now….


    Fan participation, cell phones, curses, bands, Wagon Wheel, etc. had nothing to do with that loss after we were up 10. That had to do with play calling and game management. Shrugs. It’s the same story for 4 years. DD is good for 6-10 points for the opposition every game. We lose a lot of games by that margin.

    I like the Kitchings plan because I actually think that this staff is close, but can’t get out of its own way. I think a lot of that is due to DD. Things I like:
    – Talent: We’re stocked at RB, DL. OL looks pretty good. Young receivers do as well. There is enough talent there to play even with FSU and Clemson.
    – Guys seem to be good citizens off the field.
    – Several of the coaches seem like good ones — RBs, OL, DL, WRs. I’d hate to lose some of that momentum.

    There are clearly some things that aren’t working — special teams, run/pass mix, defensive scheme/pressure, penalties and god awful in game decisions and clock management. I would expect Kitchings (who was here for TOB and all this tenure) best knows those reasons — whether they are due to the head man, assistants, etc.. He can’t be any worse at in game decisions than DD.

    Oh, and did I mention that Kitchings can clearly recruit, and that it seems to me that this is about the lowest cost move we can make? If it revives any interest in the program (full season ticket price sales, concession sales by more showing up, bowl revenues if we actually win), it’s probably better than cost neutral (may be a clear benefit).

    Maybe he’s our Dabo. Here’s to hoping. It’s a pretty low risk option.

    Maybe he’s not. If not, the next AD can make the hire without being shackled by debt from Yow or recruiting that has fallen off the map.

    Seems like a no brainer to me…….



    1. Promote Coach Kitch or his equivalent
    2. Save $1.5M in salaries
    3. Give all the remaining Asst Coaches a modest raise
    4. Spend $20K in the parking lot before the games..
    5. Cut tickets prices by 10-15%
    6. Put $400K in the bank for a rainy day
    7. Be Happy with winning 8 games a year
    8. Beat UN* 4 out of every 5 games
    9. Keep our standards high — run a clean program
    10.Keep the kids in the classroom

    Not a problem for most Wolfpackers I know…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    That “plan” seems more like mere talk to me, but I’d take it to ride out Yow’s tenure since “proactive” and “NC State” don’t mix.

    But not sure how he would recruit without a real HC contract and I don’t want DY giving another of those out, nor should an untested assistant get one of those.

    Tl;dr – letting DY choose her retirement date and/or angle to pick her successor is dumb as f-ck, but nobody seems inclined to do jack shit about it.


    Bill: I’d be as bullish to move to Kitchings as anyone, but I think most of those things in your list may not correlate with that move. I’d suggest it is more like this:
    – Fire DD, promote Kitchings with probably double pay and something like a 2 year deal (through Deb’s retirement)
    – Kitchings fires multiple assistants and needs to hire replacements
    – NC State and Deb have “done something”
    – Recruiting takes some sort of uptick because it always does with a coaching change, and clearly Kitchings can recruit
    – We keep focus on kids keeping their noses clean and doing the right thing

    With respect to wins, beating UNC, etc., anything could happen. We could actually be worse. UNC could hire poorly and we shift the tide.



    Channeling Bernie Sanders these days? KNOW you tend to float things that are radical….and some of them might have merit….but the financial side of it is fixed. Reminds me of the old adage, Sell Dimes for a Nickel and make it up on the Volume.

    As to the rest of the points…I don’t disagree with most of the plan….save that I don’t have enough info to comment on Coach Kitch…

    The Courts and the NCAA took care of WHY we spend most of the “Profit” from the Revenue Sports, the tradmarks, Radio/TV, etc…..We have a small “profit” from year to year and it is, I think, banked as a reserve. BUT, it is nowhere near what Doeren’s buyout is…

    NOW, don’t know your business acumen, but please contact AD Yow and help her accomplish the financial miracle of “Cutting Ticket Prices”. Have you pulled down a copy (50 pages) of the NCAA filing that we do each year that “analyzes” our budget and has all the “checks in the boxes” to ensure “Compliance”? That might be interesting reading for you.

    The folks that buy the tickets and make the donations are not prone to take a “Dabo” shot….but IF that were a “Help me….I’ve Fallen” quick fix, then they MIGHT go along with it.

    CD will have to give us the “mood and tone” of the mega backers that would have to “bail us out” of the Buyout. Again, I don’t know if they will put up $2.5 Million for a “Lets Try Coach Kitch” approach. Can you help fund that to lighten their load?

    Most of the ones that are being “solicited” to fund the $2.5 Million donation are also of the “we need to be competitive and are in favor of the $3 – $3.5 Million Floor or HC’s salary. e.g., you will see a $5 or so increase in the ticket price and a 15 – 20% increase in concession prices. The ticket price funds the new coach. The concessions funds the Assistant Bumps…

    I’m a little less than at peak this morning. I stayed up until 4:30 and celebrated. Yesterday, I cast my ballot in a very heavy Deplorables Precinct, which predictably, had a LOT of folks in Wolf Pack Clothing. I wanted something RED….if you get my drift. I threw on my Jimmy V jersey….with the “Don’t EVER Give Up” logo on the back. Still have it on. Little did I fully understand how prophetic it would be….

    As to our FB program….we may already be at the “alea iacta est” point. Only the folks that are being solicited for the big bucks know that….not I.

    Time for more caffeine…..


    ^not Saunders… perhaps a more modern version of Machiavelli…

    just trying to “speed up the Process”…. knowing that the purgatories of life are the worst places to be…

    when you throw something a little out of the box out there…
    people start thinking..
    and if enough of them are thinking,
    when they get together…
    things might just happen.

    On another note…
    People in power seem to under-estimate the “pent up frustrations” of the quiet people.

    Regardless, the sun did come up this morning.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
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