Do black people not have IDs?

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This topic contains 77 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  freshmanin83 3 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 78 total)
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  • #105158

    TheAliasTroll
    Participant

    “This law was passed with discriminatory intent. It targeted African-Americans ‘with almost surgical precision’ – imposing stringent ID requirements, reducing same-day registration and constraining out-of-precinct voting to place barriers between citizens and the ballot box. And it sent a message that contradicted some of the most basic principles of our democracy,” [Loretta] Lynch said in a statement.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/court-strikes-down-north-carolina-voter-id-law-226438

    This is a serious question, folks. I’m trying to understand how implementing ID laws was done for the sake of suppressing a particular race from voting. Apparently the evidence in its entirety is that the law was proposed a year after record turn out of black voters. To be honest, it quite seems like the converse is true: Striking down a voter ID law and claiming it to be targeting black folks infers that ONLY black folks are unable or unwilling to go out and get the required identification. Now that, too me, sounds prejudice.

    I dunno it’s certainly possible I’m missing something. Would love to hear some discussion and be open to getting more info. Please keep it civil and classy in here, people!

    #105161

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    My post just disappeared.

    #105162

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Here is some more commentary:

    The voting law imposed a voter ID requirement, cut early voting opportunities, eliminated same-day voter registration and banned out-of-precinct voting, among other provisions.

    The court found that by 2013, African-American registration and turnout rates had reached near parity with those of whites. But weeks after the Supreme Court weakened the Voting Rights Act in Shelby County v. Holder in 2013, Republicans said they planned to enact an “omnibus” voting law. The court’s ruling continued: “Before enacting that law, the legislature requested data on the use, by race, of a number of voting practices. Upon receipt of the race data, the General Assembly enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five different ways, all of which disproportionately affected African-Americans.”

    A district court earlier this year upheld the law. But the appeals court found that the lower court erred by seeing the law’s goals as partisan rather than race-based. The state’s history of racial discrimination in voting, the appeals court said, “highlight the manner in which race and party are inexorably linked in North Carolina. This fact constitutes a critical — perhaps the most critical — piece of historical evidence here. The district court failed to recognize this linkage, leading it to accept “politics as usual; as a justification for many of the changes in [the voting law]. But that cannot be accepted where politics as usual translates into race-based discrimination.”

    #105164

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    Another post disappeared. What in the hell is triggering it?

    #105166

    TheAliasTroll
    Participant

    @pakfanistan – thats happened to me as well in the past.. it’s scrapping your post based on something it deems “bad language” is my best guess.. go through it and be sure nothing might trigger that filter.. or else a keymaster may have to go in and let it through..

    Upon receipt of the race data, the General Assembly enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five different ways, all of which disproportionately affected African-Americans

    I’ll have to see if this data is publicly available and what those five different “ways” are when I get some time. Are there other “ways” that restrictions disproportionately affected other races, gender, age? Just seems really bizarre the requirements of the law somehow negatively affect black folks more than another race.

    That brings it back full circle then; I guess a statistically significant portion of black folks really don’t have IDs as compared to other races. Seems weird to me.

    #105167

    TheAliasTroll
    Participant

    So I’ve been doing a little more research (i.e. googling) trying to find out how many black people do not have ID and I continue to see aloof references that 25% of black people in America do not have a government issued ID compared to 8% of white people.

    I finally found that this 25% number that keeps popping up comes from data was gathered from a 2006 survey of 987 randomly selected Americans via a phone interview (The 2006 survey of Americans’ ownership and access to citizenship documents and identification). Assuming 12.3% of USA population is black that’s ~121 black people they surveyed where ~30 of them apparently answered they didn’t have an ID??? I couldn’t find any more information on the methods of the study.

    This is absolutely stunning revelation to me if true. Having some kind of government issued ID is a necessity to be able to successfully function in today’s society one would think.

    Also, I found there was another study from UC Davis earlier this year that showed about ~4-5% decrease in minority turn out for states that implemented these voter ID laws, which would indicate there IS indeed a cause and effect.

    Interestingly NC had a stipulation in the law where you could sign an affidavit at the polling place affirming a “reasonable impediment” if you didn’t have an ID.. which makes the whole law moot it would seem.

    Anyway have a good weekend, folks!

    #105170

    choppack1
    Participant

    Actually, surprisingly enough, the NC legislature bent over backwards to make sure that those who were economically disadvantaged had the ability to vote.

    I don’t understand the objections to this Bill. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask those who are seeking to vote that a) they are who they say they are and B) they haven’t voted more than once.

    #105171

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    Without being argumentative…

    ya’ll do know that Dead People vote regularly ….
    and people move… and then vote in their old district…

    and sometimes “sone people” vote more than once…

    It’s “American Politics” since 1792…
    A citizen/candidate has the inalienable right to cheat anyway he or she can to effect the outcome/win an election… as long as they do NOT get caught.

    Thus, in spite of the moral and legal “rights and wrongs”… at the end of the day, elections are a level playing field.
    That said, I’ve never heard a losing candidate say in public…. “The reason we lost was that we didn’t cheat more than my opponent.”
    ________________________

    Popcorn anyone?
    Sit back and enjoy the show or go be part of the show…
    either way…

    This ain’t my circus and them ain’t my monkeys…

    _________________________

    fwiw… not that anybody cares…. in 1993, your’s truly… old BOTB was elected to public office in North Carolina… the first time.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #105172

    gso packbacker
    Participant

    While I don’t see it as unreasonable, I also recall working at a Grocery store in the early 80s and watching a lot of people (black and white) sign their checks with an X on the back.

    I would still like to see the real number on people without an id and their reason. Juat curious.

    #105176

    tractor57
    Participant

    I can see one potential issue. My mom is in a nursing home, no photo ID and not likely to get another. That said she is given the option to ask for an absentee ballot – photo ID not required but her signature on the absentee ballot must be witnessed. She is of sound mind if not sound body.

    Personally I do not see the issue with showing who you are to vote. I do see an issue if that is used to skew the electorate (my maternal grandfather was not allowed to vote decades ago on the literacy test). These days very few do not have a photo ID. Some of the other actions that were ancillary bother me more – like moving polling places to inconvince this group or that.

    I think ALL people who are citizens and have registered should be allowed to vote – once.

    #105179

    YogiNC
    Participant

    The polling accuracy you cited is suspect IMO. A more accurate number ‘could’ be ~ 4%. The percentage of illegal ‘citizens’ with ID would make your head explode.

    Smarter than the average bear

    #105160

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    It’s not just the ID portion. It’s the restriction of early voting, ending same day registration, ending preregistration for teens, changing poll hours…the whole thing was meant to make it harder to vote, which was directly meant to affect the young, the poor, the elderly, etc.

    A GOP representative said as much on the Daily Show and resigned over it.

    But we can pretend like that wasn’t the intent and that in person voter fraud is a serious issue when that’s never been shown to be true, and that any of those things I mentioned above would do anything to address in person voter fraud even if it was an issue.

    It’s the 21st century. Why would you play around with in person voter fraud when there are electronic voting machines begging to be tampered with? Why risk a felony over one vote when you can change thousands at one time? Why aren’t we working on that issue?

    #105184

    YogiNC
    Participant

    Time to don your tin foil hats.

    Smarter than the average bear

    #105187

    tractor57
    Participant

    It is those “associated” things that are troublesome to me. Not so much the reduced early voting hours as here they were a waste for the most part so adjustments to the number made sense. The poll locations, open hours (other than reduced days) and such were no doubt an attempt to sway elections. The machine tampering is one reason our county went to op scan ballots – there you do have a hard copy record of the ballot.

    #105188

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    Time to don your tin foil hats.

    #105163

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/29/the-smoking-gun-proving-north-carolina-republicans-tried-to-disenfranchise-black-voters/

    In particular, the court found that North Carolina lawmakers requested data on racial differences in voting behaviors in the state. “This data showed that African Americans disproportionately lacked the most common kind of photo ID, those issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV),” the justices wrote.

    So the legislators made it so that the only acceptable forms of voter identification were the ones disproportionately used by white people. “With race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans,” the justices wrote. “The bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”

    The data also showed that black voters were more likely to make use of early voting — particularly the first seven days out of North Carolina’s 17-day voting period. So lawmakers eliminated these seven days of voting. “After receipt of this racial data, the General Assembly amended the bill to eliminate the first week of early voting, shortening the total early voting period from seventeen to ten days,” the court found.

    Most strikingly, the justices point to a “smoking gun” in North Carolina’s justification for the law, proving discriminatory intent. The state argued in court that “counties with Sunday voting in 2014 were disproportionately black” and “disproportionately Democratic,” and said it did away with Sunday voting as a result.

    HMM.

    #105194

    Rick
    Keymaster

    Paki,
    You only had one post in pending

    #105196

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    It’s pretty damming allegations against the NC GOP. And they wonder why they struggle with the minority vote…

    McCrory has vowed to appeal to SCOTUS. Stay tuned.

    #105200

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    Paki,
    You only had one post in pending

    Somebody else got the other one, thanks for the assist.

    #105201

    BassPacker
    Participant

    Often ask same questions why requiring a photo id limits the black vote. A photo Id is essential, specially if of voter age in daily life. Just thinking back how often been ask for photo Id makes one question why one would not have one. Can’t help but feel there is more out cry over needing an id because it limits “other things” more than having one to vote. I was ask for id three times last week and I’m white and middle age. I think blacks who don’t have an id have other reasons other than being required to vote. Can anyone explain why one of voter age would not want or need a id in daily life?

    #105202

    Greywolf
    Participant

    fwiw… not that anybody cares…. in 1993, your’s truly… old BOTB was elected to public office in North Carolina… the first time.

    I ran for the City Limits one time. I’d have made it if I’d been unopposed.

    #105203

    Rick
    Keymaster

    fwiw… not that anybody cares…. in 1993, your’s truly… old BOTB was elected to public office in North Carolina… the first time.

    I ran for the City Limits one time. I’d have made it if I’d been unopposed.

    How can anyone lack an ID?
    You need one to drive, to buy alcohol, to write a check, to cash a check, to get medical services, to open a bank account. Pretty much anything you do requires an ID. I don’t get it, can someone explain this phenomenon?

    #105204

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    I ran for the City Limits one time. I’d have made it if I’d been unopposed.

    Ha!

    Maybe the problem was a case of shooting at moving targets?

    In ’93 — I led a “political process” that “moved” the City Limits seven (7) times during the following three (3) years….

    Nobody ever said Politics was or is “Fair”, which brings us back to main theme of this Topic.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #105206

    Wufpacker
    Participant

    Maybe pigment makes them concerned about photographing well?
    Yikes, that sounded way more racist than I’d intended.

    #105209

    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    It’s called poverty. No car, no license. No money, no checking. Passport? LOL.

    Photo ID…Photo ID.

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