As the calender turns, so does the Pack

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    Can we all agree that with the results gott has had so far he’s at least earned a 5th year?

    That said, his teams do play a frustrating brand of basketball.. But I am not sure there is any other kind when you gravitate to the bubble every year.

    It did take Bennett 5 years to complete his total turnaround @ uva. This of course doesn’t mean gott will turn the corner – only that he could and deserves a shot to try.


    I will let this season play out, and the next one, really. Before making any definitive judgments. I think MG’s done enough to deserve that much.


    Gott has done a good job here but like many I’m not exactly seeing a big improvement over where we’ve been and where we are. Perhaps he’ll surprise us.


    Rick, that can loom for sure. But I also have this crazy ass notion as to why people think that recruiting has “slowed.”

    I certainly hope you are right but he had averaged two a year.


    That would make sense though.

    1.21 Jigawatts

    I’m not saying fire MG after this season, definitely not without a guaranteed proven step up, just looking at trends and asking questions as to why we have those trends, what could possibly be behind those trends, then finally speculating as to how the problem areas could be fixed. Any healthy organization does this type of self analysis yearly if not quarterly and if you don’t then you won’t be an organization for very long.

    MG is pretty consistent at producing bubble teams and as such if things don’t improve then that is exactly what State will continue to receive. Just as VaWolf examines teams in relation to the RPI and how that translates into NCAAT appearances we can also take the time to review our teams to look at improvement or decline through the years and within those years.

    While we are still only approaching the halfway point of year 4, a goal should be set for the 5 year milestone and if that goal hasn’t been reached then what should happen. Continuing to sneak into the tournament and exiting on the first weekend after year 5 may provide cover by the media but is that enough for NC State?


    … CD,
    That would make sense though….

    I know it’s cold up in the Triangle…
    … and there was a Full Moon last night…

    but WTF is going on around here…
    Rick is telling Mr. Dog he’s making sense??

    Hell Freezing Over...

    What you drinking Cuz ??

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    It’s a new nicer Rick


    ^Bartender… We GOTT to have a round for everybody dressed in RED and WHITE…
    … and put it on my tab…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    Am I crazy to want Debbie to be pro active and get Archie in here next yr?


    Can we all agree that with the results gott has had so far he’s at least earned a 5th year?

    I can, based on overall program results. Basically I agree w/ what Bjd stated above.

    That said, taking a look at trends, recruiting, and all other ‘daytight compartments’ of the program is good, too (confession: I laughed out loud and spit up when I typed ‘daytight compartments’ … yep, I’m that guy). All that stuff cost Tob his job.

    It’s a new nicer Rick

    Applebee’s has that effect on people 😉


    For what’s is worth …
    there were more than a few plays back in 72-76 that Stormin’ Norman had me and others shaking our heads at…

    Probably a good thing. If we had understood what Norm was doing, I’d be worried.


    Gott did have 2 season of 12-4…that ain’t bad a’tall.

    I said in another post, sooner or later, he’ll slide off the bubble, the big question is which way.

    Interesting thing about Bennett at WSU – his first season was his best. The shine on that diamond had kind of faded. Granted – Gott has a much longer track record – but I’m glad to see a consensus.

    I think we all like easy choices…It would be nice to have an “easy decision” after year 5 in the positive.

    I also think it’s pretty difficult to find the kind of athlete that’s going to succeed in this conference. If you look at Sendek’s first few classes – they were much more athletic than what he put on the court his last 5 years. He went for a smarter basketball player – and got on the right side of the bubble and conference.

    I think Gott’s kids are plenty smart (based on interviews) – but basketball IQ – that’s another thing…and that requires ALOT of scouting.


    Three trips to the big dance. How can you argue that after what we have been through. All of yall need to do a reality check on where we have been. I think all of you would have been satisfied with that four years ago.



    [It’s] Probably a good thing. If we had understood what Norm was doing, I’d be worried…

    I ain’t 100% sure Norm understood what he was doing … He would get so fired up, esp. against Dean and Lefty… I’m pretty sure it all mashed up in a blur….

    … basketball IQ – that’s another thing…and that requires ALOT of scouting…

    See here’s where perhaps… a lot of fans get off track at the very beginning of their thought processes…

    Fact is that so few kids coming out of High School have a decent BBIQ… if one did… you wouldn’t have to scout for it… because everybody would know it…

    What scouts need to find more of are good kids with good fundamental athletic skills who can learn quickly… to go with a few of those kids with all the stars… the two mixed correctly make each other better and that’s what makes a Team.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    It’s a good thing that D YOW is in charge instead of anyone who has posted above. We have a great coach and assistants and everyone else has an opinion!


    Bill – I can’t really disagree with that statement.

    Ilian Emtimov’s and Julius Hodge’s are pretty rare. Like you said, the big issue is whether you can take kids who are smart – and turn them into high IQ ballers.

    UVa is doing it right now. The initial returns here are and in Gott’s work @ Bama are worrisome – but he deserves time. Different league – different opponents.

    I’d also say discipline is a huge component. And while I’ve seen pretty good effort the last 2 years – the discipline has been another story. Again – this can improve – so really, it’s an academic exercise. We’ll look around year 5 and see where we are. I have no clue which direction we’re headed or where we’ll be….I can see it all going any of 3 ways.



    aren’t discipline, concentration, practiced reads and responses all part of the same thing?

    Musicians, athletes, actors, salesman … all the really good ones GOTT it…
    It’s the one common denominator…

    and I ain’t talking about Brain Surgeons, Nuclear Engineers and Astro-biologists… just regular guys…

    Everybody has their ways of letting the steam off ..
    but you GOTT to learn how to be disciplined about that too…

    BB guns are not the answer… at least not inside the City limits…

    I heard that a lot of successful NFL quarterbacks are really football nerds/geeks and might be confused with CPAs and then there’s one Joe Namath every decade or so…

    (For you younger readers, I left J.Mansiel out because you ain’t an NFL quarterback until you win a NFL football game)…

    Back to college roundball… and discipline…

    Anya and Meeks both coming out of High School at 360 plus says a lot more about the quality of their coaches and their environment than it says about each kid… Once in the system, they both found it in themselves to lose 60-80 lbs…

    If that doesn’t prove discipline can be learned, acquired, instilled… check out Paris Island… they wrote the book…

    Once you GOTT it … you don’t lose it either…

    The problem is that both kids had to spend a year of more doing what they should have done in the tenth grade… and since time is relatively exponential and not linear … the effect doesn’t show up until their senior year or later when they eligibility is exhausted…

    See, the fourth year is the lost year, not the first one…

    Now since I’m on a roll here…

    Want to step up our recruiting game…

    Get Gott & Company to set up a one day clinics … we Gott about six coaches … 6 clinics for each Coach… April to September… at 36 different North Carolina middle schools (that’s right – middle schools – to show and talk with the 8-9th kids about what they need to do… and get them to invite their older brothers and friends, of course …

    That’s probably a NCAA violation or two but think about it…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    Alright, it all makes good sense to me, I’m on board. Let’s do it!

    LOL. Awesome post.


    I will let this season play out, and the next one, really. Before making any definitive judgments. I think MG’s done enough to deserve that much.

    Anyone know when MG’s contract is up? I think it’s after year 7, but I don’t remember. I really feel like if we give him 6-7 years, that’s when we are going to see the fruits of his labor.

    I think when MG got here he looked up and down the bench, and saw very little he could work with. There was some talent, but some dangerous egos with it and no depth on the bench to speak of.

    I think after the first two year’s guys were gone, MG started going after a different kind of animal: Good physical builds and team-mates first, talent 2nd. He recruited last year’s Freshmen to be guys who could contribute as glue/role/depth/bench players if nothing else. If one panned out as a star – even better! This has mostly worked, as there were 6-8 guys last year who could play almost interchangeably in any game (outside of Buckets). As you all know, this had not been the case his first 2 years. This year there are 10 players who can come in. That’s good depth.

    Last year’s Freshman were Building Blocks, the foundation for the future, while this year’s Freshmen are leaning a bit more to the talented side. MG had the Glue/Role players, now he’s bringing in the talented ones. This is not meant to mean that Abu and the twins are not good team-mates or that the 2nd year players aren’t talented, because they are.

    I am trying to look at this like a solid 5-year plan that is on schedule. Any other takers?

    I am looking at Abu to be the Big that starts scoring, and makes the Offense take off at the end of the year. I feel like that is the main missing component. Can someone remind me: Did Calvin contribute consistently all year long in 2011-12, or did he come on in the last 10 games or so?

    Sorry for the TL;DR. In summation, Rome wasn’t built in a day.

    /Go Panthers!


    Here is some info from Leslie’s 2011-12 season if anyone is still reading this thread and/or cares:

    I only compiled averages for points and rebounds (it’s all I have time for at the moment). I also broke it up into groupings of games to see trends.

    I apologize for any format trouble:

    1st 6 games AVG: 12.8pts 6rebs .571 FG%
    Next 6 games AVG: 13.2pts 6.3rebs .500 FG%

    Start of Conference Play
    1st 4 games AVG: 12.3pts 6.2rebs .568 FG%
    Next 4 games AVG: 12.3pts 6.5rebs .381 FG%

    Next 4 games AVG: 16pts 8.3rebs .472 FG%
    Last 4 games AVG: 20.3pts 10.5rebs .588 FG%

    ACC Tournament AVG: 17.3pts 10.7rebs .697 FG%
    NCAA tournament AVG: 15.7pts 5.7rebs .459 FG%

    This is kinda what I remembered, where CJL was pretty consistent over the first 20 games (12 non-conf, 8 conf) with averages of 12.8 points and 6 rebounds, hitting on .505 FG%.

    Then he turned it on/figured it out:

    Over the last 14 games he had averages of 17.4 pts and 8.9 rebounds, hitting .546 FG%.

    Imagine where we would be if Abu can turn it on/figure it out enough where he can contribute 12 pts and 6 rebounds! This offense would be flying!


    6-7 years?
    I think we will know at this time next year what err have.


    So the teams get better as the season unfolds (outside of the pre-season top 10 head case team).

    Prowling Woofie

    Exactly, Zaphod – I remember the first time I told my youth team that a moving pick was the fault of the ball-handler, not the pick setter. They looked at me like I’d slapped ’em. If the dribbler runs tight enough off the picker, there’s no way a moving pick gets called.

    Unfortunately, it’s not just teenage boys that miss this concept… Embarrassing that Div I scholarship athletes can’t get it – or aren’t taught it !

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