Grey, some quick thoughts:
– You brought up the past, so I answered why it is pertinent.
That’s not quite accurate. You brought up the past. I just commented on it.
I’ve said on this thread DD is probably here as long as Yow is. If so, then so be it. Any coach we hire is going to be a gamble. But with a coach that really hasn’t proven anything, there’s one eye on what has been done and one on what might happen better. Seems reasonable, no?
The way you spin it, it is quite reasonable. Unfortunately your spin seems to be viewed through basketball eyes where the HC is out front calling all the shots. The basketball coach is managing 5 players plus 3 or 4 substitutions in a rotation. A football coach has 40 players (O, D, ST) plus another 12 or 15 substitutes to manage in a rotation. That’s 8 or 9 players for the basketball coach and 52+/- for football. Responsibilities are delegated and while the HC is responsible for the outcome of the decisions, he isn’t making all the decisions.
– Yow has done a good job at NC State and the Director’s Cup results, APR and lack of major scandal all reflect that. She’s human though, and thus not perfect. She has not handled press conferences well. She may judge on one criteria, but she says she judges on another.
Who’s to say she hasn’t handled a pro-Tar Heel press well? As far as criteria is concerned, how you handle football and volleyball hiring and firing are not exactly apples to apples comparisons.
Tigers don’t change their stripes. (Now we are getting some real science in the game) Eventually there’s enough body of work for one to just see that that is all someone is really going to accomplish in that role. They’re just not the right fit for the job. How many years is that? What consitutes the success metrics? What’s really the potential given the inputs? I’m not the AD or the money people, but evidently many had seen enough part of the way through last year.
The AD didn’t see fit to fire DD mid-season and to say the EweNC and Vanderbilt wins saved his job is only guess work. It may have made the decision more easy for some to swallow but that is only a matter coincidence.
BTW having a fat wallet and a Vaughn Towers suite does not make one a football expert. Knowing how to raise hogs is not the same as knowing what it takes to build a successful football program. Leave it to the AD.
I cautioned during that period last year that much was right and if we were going to do something, maybe it was to see whether we had in Kitchings out own version of Dabo.
You have got to be kidding. Do you have any idea of the amount of plans and notes from practices Sweeney was able to present to the AD when Bowden quit mid-season. Bowden wasn’t fired and the coordinators overlooked and Sweeney hired on a whim. Sweeney’s education wasn’t a BA, he had a Business Administration Masters degree. He was ready in every way to manage a P-5 football program. Clemson is run as close to Alabama as you are going to get. Suggesting Kitchings is ready to be HC at NC State is a real stretch. Kitchings stayed at NC State to continue under Doeren.
I think it is fair to say that DD is a good coach 6 days a week, but is a pretty mediocre (to bad one) on game day. He reminds me an awful lot of HWSNBN in basketball. Giving HWSNBN another 10 years wasn’t going to change the complete lack of killer instinct, baffling in game tactical decisions, momentum killing time outs and substitutions, or general Charlie Brown trying to kick the football level of meltdowns when on the verge of anything significant.
I’m reminded of the disclaimer that comes with any financial document – “past performance is no guarantee of future success” or in our case past sucky performance is no guarantee for future sucky performance. That said there might be a correlation. I think we are seeing improvement in things that build the base for future success but that is only opinion.
Tractor57, I want to stand on your shoulders answering ryebread’s last paragraph above.
Continuing your business reference many businesses that are being pulled up from losing positions loose money the first, second and even third year. Our football analysts would look at the loses and declare management was doing a lousy job. Some would point to darned near everything (the complete lack of killer instinct, baffling in game tactical decisions, momentum killing time outs and substitutions, or general Charlie Brown trying to kick the football) as evidence the current management was a failure.
Like Sweeney DD had a plan when he came here. This wasn’t a ‘let’s give ole Dave a try’ type hire. She know what we were getting and she knew what TOB was leaving DD with. The first year was spent putting in the offense. The second year was spent switching from 4-3-4 defense to 4-2-5 (which is all wrong.) Concurrently with these installations, coaching adjustments were being made both pro-actively and re-actively. The facilities were upgraded, the IPF was completed, support staff upgraded, etc. Building a modern football program is like running a business: facilities, management (coaches), production workers (players) and support staff. If you think Debbie Yow wasn’t fully aware of the plan and how long it would take, you don’t know Debbie Yow. Her associate ADs might meet with some sports but she meets with football and basketball multiple times during the season.
Part of building a successful business is training staff and workers. We see the parallel with training players but often miss the parallel of training staff and coaches. Part of any learning process is making mistakes. Doeren has made mistakes, some we’ve seen and some not necessarily the ones we think he has made, but some mistakes we will never know about. The coaches have to be allowed to make mistakes in their learning process, too. Being allowed to participate with some autonomy is attractive to coaches. I don’t know the reasons our coaches like it here, but my guess it’s like working in business. Fair compensation, good working conditions, reasonable hours, scheduled time off, etc. Coach Doeren is the most organized coach I have ever seen. (I know some are more organized.) Players and coaches know when they have time off and when they have to work. Some assistant coaches at other schools are worked to death.
In business there are sometimes circumstances that cause a business to fall short of the projected outcome. Perhaps a critical machine breaks down or a crucial material shortage occurs or a workman with a skill critical to the operation of the business is unable to perform as is expected. In 2016 we had a circumstance that caused us to fall short of our projected outcome. One of our workmen with a skill critical to the operational success of our football team was unable to perform as was expected.
In business you don’t fire your management team over something they had no real control over.
