The Morning After NC State Gets Hosed vs Clemson (Update 12:30pm)

**Update** – WRAL’s Jeff Gravely is reporting on Twitter that Debbie Yow sent a message to the ACC.  One could only hope there was a horse head attached.Screen Shot 2013-09-20 at 12.28.00 PM

The Call

So I tried to refrain from writing after coming home from the game last night because it would have just come out an angry, f-bomb filled screed of nonsense.  Not that this will be much better, I’m only mildly over the whole thing. I can get over the ghost timeouts because that happens a lot, coaches are in the ear of the ref and can call timeout at the drop of a hat without anyone noticing and for sure no one noticed. Clemson still ran the play as it were live but so be it.

The real elephant in the room was the unexplainably bad call from the back judge, who called Brian Underwood out of bounds after he burned down the sideline on a jet sweep. Everyone knows the right call should have been a no-call, especially since all TD plays are reviewed anyway but I still don’t understand how the back judge makes this call when he doesn’t have a clear line of sight.  Not that we need anymore proof but I’ve taken a screenshot of the play and illustrated it for everyone.

brian underwood

Brian Underwood scampers down the sideline, clearly inbounds while the back judge with an obstructed view makes a game changing call.

Obviously the field judge with the green arrow had the clear line of sight and made the correct call, while the back judge with an obstructed view (red arrow) makes a horrendous call.  He should have let the play go, let it be reviewed or conferred with the field judge.

I hate to beat a dead-horse because everyone knows he was wrong but this is the type of thing that makes State fans crazy and start screaming about black helicopters. I’ve already heard the rumors of the ref being an avid Tar-hole fan and the ACC trying to protect it’s football golden-boy and while they are hard to believe at some point when this sort of thing keeps happening to us over and over again it is hard to not give it a little serious thought.   I know it won’t happen and it won’t change anything but the ACC and/or that official need to say something about the whole situation.

In the end I don’t even think it is about us fans.  I couldn’t feel worse for Coach D, the rest of the coaches and the players who obviously had a solid game plan and came out very prepared for this game only to have to play it 11 vs 15. Who knows what could have happened if that call stands and the Pack goes into the 4rth quarter up 14-13.

The Rest of the Game

With that said, I know after the LaTech and Richmond wins we were all a little uncertain about what the season holds for us but the performance from the players and coaches in last night’s loss made me feel a little better about what is to come.  The coaches understood what needed to be done and overall I’m excited to see what this staff can do when they have a little more time to implement their system and get a few more playmakers to run it.

Some things I thought were interesting:

  • Shadrach’s performance, 2 touches 53 yards and a TD.  Will he get more touches as he works his way out of DD’s doghouse?
  • Pete Thomas played ok but after 3 games we still only have 1 passing TD and that is from our Wildcat QB Sherrifs
  • Last night was a win from the recruiting standpoint. State hosted a ton of visitors both unofficial and official and we showed them a solid atmosphere, a competitive game, and a ton of freshman getting playing time and making plays on both sides of the ball
  • Rashard Smith needs more touches
  • Loved the defensive game plan Huxtable had set up. We gave up a few too many 3rd down conversions but that will tighten up as the corners get some more experience. They seemed to play the man and never look back for the ball but Clemson is second to none with their skill at WR. Overall, we didn’t give up any big plays partly because Boyd missed a few deep balls but he was constantly running around for time.

Here’s some media from last nights game

Brian Underwood Gif

DeadSpin was the first to get the video up.

And some good pictures of Tailgating 



About JackWolf

I'm an unapologetic NC State fan but also consider myself a rational one. Hit me up on twitter if you want to talk @NCStateFootball

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30 Responses to The Morning After NC State Gets Hosed vs Clemson (Update 12:30pm)

  1. wufpup76 09/20/2013 at 12:45 PM #

    I hate to beat a dead-horse because everyone knows he was wrong but this is the type of thing that makes State fans crazy and start screaming about black helicopters.

    ^While we’re on this subject, to me this felt like a “sh*t happens, bad call” type of deal. Definitely a tough pill to swallow with the convenient Clemson timeouts though. Still, to me it didn’t feel like Gottfried’s first season as basketball coach, where ref “mistakes” seemed to happen every other whistle in every single game.

    I noticed the same thing the author did, that the judge that made the call had an obstructed view … this is why refs and umps need teamwork too. He could’ve (should’ve) let the play go and relied on his cohorts to do their jobs.

    “Nah, why would I do that?! I *think* I saw something, so Imma gonna call it!!!”

  2. tjfoose1 09/20/2013 at 12:49 PM #

    ” but I still don’t understand how the back judge makes this call when he doesn’t have a clear line of sight.”

    I do. He called what he assumed vs what he actually saw. Through Claughtery’s admission, we already know the ACC actually trains their basketball officials to do this.

    Looks like they’re expanding the program to football.


  3. Whiteshoes67 09/20/2013 at 12:57 PM #

    The call was terrible. It’s likely that the official or the unit will be disciplined. There are plenty of debatable calls throughout a game, but that’s one that cannot happen unless you’re 100% certain. It’s customary, as I understand it, for him to be suspended for a game. I’ll go on record saying I don’t think he works on Saturday.

    And to reiterate what JackWolf said, I don’t get not getting Thornton more touches. After running for a TD, he was only the field mostly on 3rd downs, if at all. He didn’t carry it once more the entire game. You can have as many plays in the book as you want, but if you don’t get it to the playmakers, that playbook isn’t worth a shit.

    I’m more worried about injuries. Any updates? Left side of O-line was getting absolutely destroyed by the end of the game. How’s Cato-Bishop? How about Burris? The two second half TD’s came without him in the game, i think. We’re very thin at corner, now I see why Johnson is forced to play there instead of safety.

  4. tjfoose1 09/20/2013 at 1:00 PM #

    What was really blatant and obvious was the no call on the three throat slash gestures by Bryant after their 2nd TD. Did it right in front of the refs. One with both hands, on with the left hand, one with the right. With the official a few feet away, watching.

    No flag, no warning, nothing. Rece Davis even commented he was waiting for a flag to be thrown.

    One the other hand, NCSU gets flagged when a player from a military family gives a salute, to his own fans, on military appreciation day.


  5. Whiteshoes67 09/20/2013 at 1:06 PM #

    The call was terrible. Lots of questionable calls in a game, but that one cannot happen. I’m fairly certain either the official, or the crew, won’t be calling games on Saturday. As I understand, that kind of thing results in a 1-game suspension.

    And to reiterate JackWolf. Why only 1 rush for Thornton? After the 20 yard TD, he was on the field primarily on 3rd downs. Didn’t have one more carry the entire game. Either you’re in the doghouse, or you’re not. As for the playbook, I love the creativity, but there were also some really bad designs, such as the one receiver route down inside the 10 in the 4th quarter. the multiple shifts and motions seemed to get us in trouble as well, several times in short yardage situations. At some point, just line up and play football. A little too cute for my taste at times.

    I’m more concerned about injuries. Left side of offensive line was getting destroyed in the second half. Any report on Cato-Bishop? The two 2nd half Clemson TD’s came without Burris on the field. Depth at corner is a big problem. Huge dropoff there.

  6. TLeo 09/20/2013 at 1:12 PM #

    That blown call definitely changed momentum of the game. Maybe Clemson still comes back and wins but maybe they don’t. So much depends on emotions and that screwed up call deflated the team and fans and gave all the momentum back to Clemson. Congrats to the team for fighting back to the end. They made some mistakes but I feel good about their effort and heart.
    I have to say, however, I am sick and tired of all the blown calls from these officials and nothing is ever done to them. I read that coach said the guy apologized later but …big f**ng deal. It all gets forgotten or swept under the rug by swoff and his corrupt bunch and these clowns keep on making glaring mistakes without having any consequences.

  7. Gowolves 09/20/2013 at 1:15 PM #

    A couple of thoughts…

    Those timeouts were bothersome to me as well. Both at the very last second. The plays should have counted. The ball has been snapped. What is the time limit? I mean late is late. What if we were trying to ice a kicker and we try to call a timout and the ref is not looking. Five seconds after the kick clears the post he sees the coach calling time out. He is not going to give him the TO. Just odd.

    Joe Ovies states that the it was good for Clemson to keep up its resume to help the ACC. F*ck that!! I am tired of that “we” need to lose to the best team in the conference so they can go on give the ACC the cred it needs. Screw that! His quote “Don’t think of this as a loss for the Wolfpack, but a big win for the ACC. ”

    I was at the game last night. The atmosphere was great. Hopefully some of that rubbed off on the recruits that were there. I like the direction of this program. Just give him some time and his recruits and we will see what a real program looks like.

  8. triadwolf 09/20/2013 at 1:18 PM #

    I’m was extremely happy with the play of State in the game, minus the stupid penalties.

    The blown call just tops off a night when it felt like every momentum/game changing play State made, something ultimately nullified it. There were about a half dozen such plays (a couple legit, one blown, a couple questionable calls) last night of which all went against State.

    I personally hate the timeout rules; I think only a player on the field of play should be allowed to call timeout once the offense comes to the line of scrimmage. It drives me nuts at all levels.

    Also, while we had our share of bonehead procedure/false start penalties, there were at least 2 or 3 where I just didn’t see it. Of course they came on key 3rd and short situations.

    From the stands it certainly felt like a KY night for State fans, perhaps the feeling was different watching on TV.

    I’m looking forward to the rest of the season; our defensive front should keep us in position to win most games. Go Pack!

  9. wufpup76 09/20/2013 at 1:18 PM #


  10. Whiteshoes67 09/20/2013 at 1:30 PM #

    On Thornton, I noticed Doeren said in the presser, when asked about Thornton, that “we really couldn’t run the ball well inside and we had to run it outside and that’s really not his forte.” I thought we actually had decent success there. Nearly 200 yards on the ground minus a few sacks and 1-2 negative rushing plays. Some of the big plays came on the outside, including the 1 or 2 that were negated, but 3-4 a pop inside the hash ain’t bad. And comparing Shad to the other backs, who also primarily ran inside, seems odd to me. We didn’t run outside with Creecy or Dayes either.

  11. rtpack24 09/20/2013 at 1:33 PM #

    Did they ever say on TV why Travis Copeland did not play?

  12. ncsustash 09/20/2013 at 1:34 PM #

    “Obviously the field judge with the green arrow had the clear line of sight and made the correct call, while the back judge with an obstructed view (red arrow) makes a horrendous call. He should have let the play go, let it be reviewed or conferred with the field judge.”

    I think you mean the line judge and not the back judge. The back judge has the center of the field behind the safeties.

  13. JohnGalt78 09/20/2013 at 1:35 PM #

    I really feel bad for the kids. They really played their hearts out only to have a egotistical, power junkie, piece of crap, ref dream up something that NEVER HAPPENED. It NEVER happened yet he said it did. 50K people there and millions on TV all saw the same damn thing including the ref who was looking right at the play…..yet this one prick just had to wave his power wand. Look at my power! Look at what I can do! I control you.

    I’m mad as hell obviously. I love the way our boys played and I really want, for their sake, to find that asshole and hurt him. Asshole!!!!

  14. MrPlywood 09/20/2013 at 1:55 PM #

    So glad that you posted the pic of the obstructed ref. I noticed that last night when I was looking at the footage. Clearly in the wrong position to make the call. He assumed.

    I’m assuming that a reprimand will be forthcoming… naaahhhhh!

  15. packalum44 09/20/2013 at 2:04 PM #

    Thuney got abused too bad Crisp is hurt.

    Pete is like Stone but with better coaching. We live on the edge with him in there.

  16. tjfoose1 09/20/2013 at 2:18 PM #

    “Joe Ovies states that…”

    Ovies is a pompous douche most concerned with snark and trolling. Dismiss him.

    Earlier in the week he was laughing and ridiculing those who thought State had any chance to win. Not a good chance, but any chance.

  17. wufpup76 09/20/2013 at 2:22 PM #

    ACC Ref Handbook:

    Page 1

    Call what you assume will happen, not what you actually see happen.

    When in doubt, follow these simple guidelines:

    1) Always favor the team featuring blue as a color. If both teams have blue, favor the higher ranked (or currently favored to win) shade of blue. Be sure to check Vegas lines prior to start.

    2) If neither team is wearing blue, favor the higher ranked team. Again, check Vegas lines.

    3) If you have special biases towards certain teams or schools then by all means express them with your whistle – UNLESS the team wears BLUE. Then your biases are not allowed to be exhibited and you must favor the team wearing blue. For an example, see Larry Rose and NC State. Great job over the years, Larry.

    4) The color RED is evil. Keep this in mind when calling games.

    As an ACC ref, your professionalism and integrity don’t really matter. It’s all about promoting league image … And the way we do that is by promoting BLUE. Thanks for your service and attention.


  18. Texpack 09/20/2013 at 2:30 PM #

    The call hurt, but with all of the stupid penalties we did more than enough to deserve to lose the game. Not understanding the rules on who can shift and who can’t is on the coaching staff. That happened two or three times.

    The defense held up way better than I expected. They deserve a lot of credit. Boyd was a little off last night but the pressure early may have had something to do with that.

    Pete Thomas didn’t play like Russel Wilson last night but he didn’t play like Harrison Beck

  19. Wulfpack 09/20/2013 at 2:34 PM #

    Obviously a terrible call. Changed entire game. Who knows what would have happened. Penalties were bad. Thomas was adequate. Offense as a whole needs a lot of work. Defense was tremendous. There is hope.

  20. tjfoose1 09/20/2013 at 2:44 PM #

    Name of the offending official: Richard Misner. Yes Richard Misner. I’m sure most of you understand the “Richard” connotation. I’m sure Urban Dictionary can explain that last name.

    I hope Bryant breaks his leg next week. I hope the official who watched the throat slash gestures and made no call blows out his knee.

    Dabo’s comment after the game:

    “The guy stepped out of bounds. That’s a tough break for them and a good break for us.”

    Riiight. Like he could see it on the opposite side of the field. Don’t piss on us and tell us it’s raining. F’ Dabo!

    “Shortly after [the bad call], a staffer came to where ACC coordinator of officiating Doug Rhoads had been sitting in the press box. Rhoads had left his seat after the Underwood play and went down to the field. The staffer packed up Rhoads’ belongings and quietly walked away. “

  21. wilmwolf80 09/20/2013 at 2:45 PM #

    1. We got jobbed on the no TD call. That’s all there is to say.
    2. Throat slash gesture should have been a penalty, and if the ACC had any stones, they’d issue a suspension for that. Of course we all know that will not happen.
    3. Still waiting on word about a suspension for the uppercut. Why is it taking the league so long to do so on such a clear cut case? Clempson should have already suspended him, even if the league won’t. There’s not room for that in the game.
    4. The false start penalties seem to be more of a procedure penalty. Every time we did a certain shift, we got called. It’s not the first time it has happened this year.
    5. Why are officials not measuring first downs this year? In all three of our games, I cannot recall the chains being brought out a single time. Perhaps I am wrong, but what is going on with that? Surely we’ve had at least a few that were close enough to look at.
    6. We are using a lot of personnel on offense. We have receivers that keep popping up out of the woodwork. We have three guys running the ball, four if you count Sherrifs. At times I think the coaches are just searching, and we would be better off simplifying things just a bit.
    7. The weakness of the team is O-line. It is obvious now why Mitchell was selected the starter. His skill set best offsets our primary weakness. I don’t like all of the dogging of Thomas, because I think that he has played admirably given the circumstances. But it is obvious that Mitchell would be the better fit.

  22. tjfoose1 09/20/2013 at 2:46 PM #

    “Pete is like Stone but with better coaching. ”

    Pete is much better than that. Pete is also playing in a system that minimizes his talents, not maximizes them. He readily admits his strengths are not suited to this offense.

    Both he and the coaches are doing a great job of working with what they have.

    I think the young man deserves a ton of credit.

  23. Pack84 09/20/2013 at 3:05 PM #

    For accuracy’s sake it was the line judge that blew the call. The back judge is in the middle of the defensive secondary.

  24. tjfoose1 09/20/2013 at 3:08 PM #

    The comments about the shifts, keeping things simple, etc…

    Remember, this is game three. Just game three of DD’s tenure. I promise you the coaches are not using the different personnel packages, formations, and shifts just to look cool.

    DD and Canada have shown no reason to doubt their competence.

    I think such comments after game three of the DD era, after playing the #3 team in the country, on a national stage, with numerous starters out and plenty a freshmen in, is well, a little premature.

  25. cWOhLFrPAiCKs 09/20/2013 at 3:15 PM #

    So stoked to see so many positive comments a out the team on here this morning. The future looks bright for the Pack and I for one can’t wait to get Clempson back at their place next season. Hopefully Karma takes care of some of the rest of the crap we had to deal with last night. GO PACK!

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